All three have.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
can anyone give me one good reason as to why console exclusive to PC ports are a bad thing?
- Thread starter 64bitmodels
- Start date
Fabieter
Member
I would say if they have the possibility in the workforce to go day and date there isnt even a negative to do that. If it hindering the ps5 versions, delay the pc version and make both the best it can. I would even go as far and say the console makers should port more games to other consoles.
Guilty_AI
Member
I also love how people think xbox being the least popular of the big three somehow means they were losing money.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
TLOU II was optimized specifically for the PS4 which is weaker than a 1060. If naughty dog could make a game that good looking on a PS4 they can most certainly do better on a 1060. And if you think that Naughty Dog is top notch world class... you haven't seen what 3dmark and nvidia are capable of
also, STOP WITH THIS CODING TO THE METAL SHIT. GAMES HAVEN'T BEEN 'CODED TO THE METAL' SINCE WE DROPPED ASM IN FAVOR OF C AND DEVELOPERS STARTED USING COMPILERS FOR THEIR GAMES TO TURN HUMAN READABLE CODE INTO MACHINE CODE.
If naughty dog tried to actually 'code to the metal' as in literally use assembly coding for their games they'd have a fucking mental breakdown since assembly is an outdated, extremely cryptic, hard to use language
Last edited:
I Love Rock 'n' Roll
Member
Pc gamers don’t buy them. Ask Sony about that.
Neofire
Member
So all the articles and earnings of MS losing money quarter after quarter in past generations are lying?
Haggard
Banned
Assembly is neither outdated nor cryptic. It is still the go to for any low level driver/OS/compiler implementation as well as many small embedded systems ( like f.e. many household appliances nowadays).
The right language for the right purpose as always.
The main difference between a specific platform product and a more platform agnostic product on similar/same architectures is usually the use of special functions (like the hints in DB development). Those can make a tremendous difference in performance though if you design your process structure to suit them.
Ì´d be very surprised if first party engines like ND´s weren`t designed specifically around those.
So the "to the metal shit" is still very valid despite not necessarily meaning assembly level.
Last edited:
Of course they are buying them.
HZD sold 2,5+ mil. copies on PC. Despite the fact that it came on PC several years later and with pretty bad port at release.
You literally can't ask for anything more. That 2,5 mil. copies would not be sold without PC port. Because on PS4 that game was selling for 9,99€ so literally if owner of PS4 wanted it, he already played it.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Thanks to pc providing tech. And why should anyone care about most budget PCs? I care about mine.
What is so difficult about putting the pc besides the TV in whatever room? Mine is there.
qthaumaturge
Banned
That would be profitable only if they downgrade the console-specific version to a multiplatform from the get go.
Othewise a porting process can be pretty long and demanding.
Haggard
Banned
We´re in the 2nd gen of X86 machines and people still act as if we`d be looking at custom abominations like the CELL for the sake of talking shit.
For having zero knowledge of dev processes some people have an astonishingly firm opinion about those....
Last edited:
qthaumaturge
Banned
"X86 machine" has nothing to do with API used. Not to mention specific API quirks.
Last edited:
TheGodfather07
Member
Did anyone argue that delayed ports were bad? It was mostly simultaneous day and date releases.
Haggard
Banned
The work required to switch between APIs on similar architectures is absolutely incomparable to adapting code that is tailored to custom metal.
Your opinion is and has been outdated since 2013. Considering that most if not all games were ports before that point, too, without studios going under, even longer probably.
Last edited:
Kokoloko85
Member
Yeah for sure during the 360 era, there 1st party games and exclusives did alot better like Halo 3 was only on the Xbox not on PC at the time
Last edited:
Me: "even if console makers put all their exclusives on PC, many people will still buy consoles because they're more powerful than the budget PCs they own"
You: "This is false. I have big, expensive PC. Don't believe what Steam surveys tell you. Every PC gamer is like me"
There are many non-single people who would cringe at plonking their general purpose rig by their living room TVs.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Do you think people have GTX 1060 since 1993? People upgrade when they need. And Playstation exclusives like TLOU II target weak pc hardware, Potato AMD Jaguar + potato 1.8TF Radeon.
Last edited:
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Say what? Trash games?? You must be too young to have been around for Armored Core and Kings Field.
qthaumaturge
Banned
I don't think you understand how easy it is to target a specific hardware with a specific API.
You can hardcode a lot of stuff: resolution of every map/texture, memory regions, latencies, synchronization, etc.
You can manually optimize every sub-performing shader.
You can trade RAM for CPU/GPU computations.
If you do all of that, making a PC port would become a nightmare.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
And who is forbidding them to upgrade to a more powerful pc?
qthaumaturge
Banned
Wasn't even remotely so popular as DemSouls.
"why does everyone not upgrade to expensive BMWs and Maseratis? Who's forbidding people from doing that?"
There's this thing called 'money' and 'budget'. Not everyone can afford more powerful PC hardware.
Haggard
Banned
I´m a dev at architect level.....and you have no fucking clue what you are talking about.
NO project nowadays that doesn`t exist in a total vacuum does this. You construct fantasy situations with developers who hate themselves and everyone else to have arguments for a situation that hasn`t been a reality for more than a decade......
Last edited:
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
If that’s the case, they can develop them as a multiplatform titles with day 1 concurrent release on both PS5 and PC with better fidelity.
That's kind of funny since few cared about Demon's Souls when it released. It wasn't until Dark Souls had its (awful) pc port that the series exploded in popularity.
Last edited:
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
And how is that relevant for those who can afford? Not everyone can afford a new console and are still playing PS2 or Polystation 2.
I suggest you reread the conversation from start so you can help comprehend what's being discussed.
Because none of your responses make sense when you consider the premise was "many people will continue to buy consoles because they're more powerful than the budget PC gaming setup they can afford".
Cheers
MikeM
Member
Sure. But it has nothing to do with the HDMI ports you would spend hours on based on your first comment.
For PC, you connect it your TV through HDMI, select the TV as your second monitor, and it works. Its not hard.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
I suggest you reread again to understand that someone's PC being weaker than PS5/XBS can still provide a more desirable experience because pc gaming is not only about powerful hardware.
qthaumaturge
Banned
Cannot see any logical arguments here, except "trust me bro".
Anybody who doesn't tailor a console game to the hardware config is leaving a lot of performance on the table.
Which kind of emphasizes the sad state of gamedev these days...
qthaumaturge
Banned
Not true. It had a lot of word of mouth and enormous cult status.
That's how Dark Souls got these amounts of preorders it had.
I love how console players go around all high and mighty about PC gaming being an anchor because current gen consoles have decent specs for the first time in 15 years.
Thanks to weak 7th and 8th gen consoles and a long ass crossgen period my 10 year oldmid range AM3 rig is still relevant, being able to run almost every game.
All those PC gamers with old hardware are just cruising with their sandy bridge rigs. Waiting for the right time to build a new rig around 2023/2024 that will be a PS6 basically.
Thanks to weak 7th and 8th gen consoles and a long ass crossgen period my 10 year oldmid range AM3 rig is still relevant, being able to run almost every game.
All those PC gamers with old hardware are just cruising with their sandy bridge rigs. Waiting for the right time to build a new rig around 2023/2024 that will be a PS6 basically.
Last edited:
Games of Today
Member
But no, consoles just turn on when you press the button and everything works. You don't really have to learn how to operate it other than moving the D-pad around to select a game to play.
A PC on the other hand is more complicated. Different games have different launchers, they have to update, you have to keep graphics drivers updated, most PC games don't feature controller support, sometimes having different things plugged into a computer will cause certain games to not even boot up, you can get viruses if you click on the worn thing, it costs more that $499 to have a PC with an operating system and graphics on the same level as a PS5, etc.
This is all first hand experience because I own a PS5 ad a PC.
Last edited:
ProtoByte
Member
1. As a Playstation owner, I want 100% of first party resources to be catered towards the PlayStation console. People can talk about x86 architecture all they like, but the fact is that developing for multiple machines doesn't allow for the same focus of developing for one machine. Even Sony acknowledges this in a roundabout way: That blogspot Naughty Dog put up about the utterly irrelevant Uncharted port specifically attempted to allay fears about PlayStation not being the priority on a technical level.
The more time and resources is spent trying to get the game to work across different ranges of tech, the less is spent on making the game itself better. Nobody has a problem acknowledging that when it comes to cross-gen games, it goes for multiplatform games as well; and PC is probably the worst in that regard considering that no one PC is exactly the same even if they've got the same general power for running games.
2. This is less to do with the PC ports completely in themselves, and more to do with the mentality that comes along with being a multiplatform publisher: It's not a coincidence that they're also trying to cash in on the race to the bottom mobile market, posting blog posts about some mobile game studio as if core gamers should give a damn. It's no coincidence that they're porting major titles to PC at the same time they're about to dedicate the majority of their first party resources to live service poison, having 12 of the things planned to throw at the wall in the next 4 years alone.
Platform agnosticism is terrible, and true blue exclusives are healthy for the industry. The former makes it so that the "competition" is less focused on games as products, and more focused on "content" and "services". And we've seen how that works out in other mediums, which are supposed to be better suited for it than gaming.
Moreover, I think it's worth it to point out how it's not an expressly "good thing".
Fact is that PC gamers don't actually buy very many games. People get caught up looking at Steam bestsellers lists with no knowledge of the raw numbers (and anything thay would indicate raw numbers like SteamSpy is woefully innacccurate). This gies double for the types of games that PlayStation puts out, and the type of games that PlayStation gamers like. Horizon's only managed to sell 2.5 million over 2 years, with multiple sales and price drops. Days Gone couldn't crack 900k. God of War (the most hyped one yet) couldn't crack a million after 2 months of very few releases (pre-Elden Ring) and 4 months nearer the top of the "best sellers" list. Spider-Man - Spider. Man. - seems to have made even less of a pop, and Uncharted is a complete flop.
There's no way of knowing for sure, but there's a good chance that a significant percentage of all of those meager sales were double dips from people who had PS4s for the exclusives. Much like Microsoft's false ideas about some hidden audience of "gamers" waiting to be discovered, there's no hidden audience of PC players who are going to start playing first party Playstation games; and least not the kind that make the platform unique and attractive. And it makes total sense; anybody with a PC powerful enough to play these games at or above console level could afford a console as is; and that'll go especially for this gem. They're not making it accessible to people who "didn't have a choice".
Being mad about it at this point is useless; but nobody has to like it.
The more time and resources is spent trying to get the game to work across different ranges of tech, the less is spent on making the game itself better. Nobody has a problem acknowledging that when it comes to cross-gen games, it goes for multiplatform games as well; and PC is probably the worst in that regard considering that no one PC is exactly the same even if they've got the same general power for running games.
2. This is less to do with the PC ports completely in themselves, and more to do with the mentality that comes along with being a multiplatform publisher: It's not a coincidence that they're also trying to cash in on the race to the bottom mobile market, posting blog posts about some mobile game studio as if core gamers should give a damn. It's no coincidence that they're porting major titles to PC at the same time they're about to dedicate the majority of their first party resources to live service poison, having 12 of the things planned to throw at the wall in the next 4 years alone.
Platform agnosticism is terrible, and true blue exclusives are healthy for the industry. The former makes it so that the "competition" is less focused on games as products, and more focused on "content" and "services". And we've seen how that works out in other mediums, which are supposed to be better suited for it than gaming.
Moreover, I think it's worth it to point out how it's not an expressly "good thing".
Fact is that PC gamers don't actually buy very many games. People get caught up looking at Steam bestsellers lists with no knowledge of the raw numbers (and anything thay would indicate raw numbers like SteamSpy is woefully innacccurate). This gies double for the types of games that PlayStation puts out, and the type of games that PlayStation gamers like. Horizon's only managed to sell 2.5 million over 2 years, with multiple sales and price drops. Days Gone couldn't crack 900k. God of War (the most hyped one yet) couldn't crack a million after 2 months of very few releases (pre-Elden Ring) and 4 months nearer the top of the "best sellers" list. Spider-Man - Spider. Man. - seems to have made even less of a pop, and Uncharted is a complete flop.
There's no way of knowing for sure, but there's a good chance that a significant percentage of all of those meager sales were double dips from people who had PS4s for the exclusives. Much like Microsoft's false ideas about some hidden audience of "gamers" waiting to be discovered, there's no hidden audience of PC players who are going to start playing first party Playstation games; and least not the kind that make the platform unique and attractive. And it makes total sense; anybody with a PC powerful enough to play these games at or above console level could afford a console as is; and that'll go especially for this gem. They're not making it accessible to people who "didn't have a choice".
Being mad about it at this point is useless; but nobody has to like it.
Denton
Member
Majority of people who buy console buy them because they are cheap and easy. Exclusives are just a bonus, most played games are third party ones.
I Love Rock 'n' Roll
Member
"An old game for one is always new for someone else", someone said at Nintendo.
Haggard
Banned
Says the guy using fantasy "shoot yourself in the foot"-scenarios as arguments.....
Luckily it doesn´t matter if you believe me or not, reality speaks for itself.
The publishers porting their games between platforms, including Sony, know better than you, deal with it.
If only professional devs were half as competent as you.....
Last edited:
Guilty_AI
Member
What "all articles"? I hope you're not mistaking it for those articles saying that console sales don't turn up a profitSo all the articles and earnings of MS losing money quarter after quarter in past generations are lying?
Last edited:
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
You don’t get the optimization part do you? When you have closed hardware you can optimize wayyyy better then with thousands of different PC setups and configurations.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Lol. Oh yeah the armchair gamer theory of Trojan Horse ports. Amazing since not even execs think this way.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
It wasn’t until a few years into the PS4 era that Sony started making good money on PS too. It was probably around 2016 or 2017 when digital sales and mtx really caught fire from the console crowd making Sony earn lots of gaming division profits.
They were doing terrible during the PS3 era and the first few years of PS4 were barely profitable.
That entire stretch of PS3 to first few years of PS4 basically wiped out almost all profits from PS1 and PS2 generations. So don’t forget Sony struggled too.
Last edited:
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
You mean Dark Souls. That’s the franchise that became big - not Demons Souls which Sony didn’t give a shit about.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Devs can optimize to the console version way better despite the existing PC version.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Good point, and exactly why Microsoft should keep CoD, Diablo, Doom, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Quake, etc off PlayStation consoles.
GymWolf
Member
The only thing that make sense is that if your game has to run on pc, it's not gonna be 110% build around a unique hardware like it was in the past.
So sony has to take into account people without ssd and with slower gpu and cpu than a ps5.
Pretty sure this can change how much you can squeeze a console when you have to worry about weaker hardwares.
This is the only argument that make sense to me.
And if it's true that these console are not exotic or special like past console (at least until ps4 gen) it's also true that they have something going on where pc didn't catched yet (the whole direct storage ssd thing without bottlenecks).
So yeah if sony can't use 110% of their ssd because people on pc with slower hard disk has to play the game aswell then you have your answer.
So sony has to take into account people without ssd and with slower gpu and cpu than a ps5.
Pretty sure this can change how much you can squeeze a console when you have to worry about weaker hardwares.
This is the only argument that make sense to me.
And if it's true that these console are not exotic or special like past console (at least until ps4 gen) it's also true that they have something going on where pc didn't catched yet (the whole direct storage ssd thing without bottlenecks).
So yeah if sony can't use 110% of their ssd because people on pc with slower hard disk has to play the game aswell then you have your answer.
Nothing I said is not true.
Similar threads
- Locked
- Poll