• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Black High School Students Visiting Texas A&M University Harassed, Told to Go Home

Status
Not open for further replies.

Kthulhu

Member
Everyone has an accent. You just think it's neutral.

Living in Houston, traveled around plus talked to people all over Texas over the phone.

Everyone.

:p

I live in NW Houston. Most people don't have an accent. None of my friends have an accent, I don't have an accent, my immediate family don't have accent, and most of my coworkers don't have an accent.

Yes, pubic universities have lost plenty of times in court trying to regulate hate/racist speech. They are agencies of the government therefore they are bound by the US Constitution.

I honestly think public colleges and universities should be exempt from this. Harassment is unjustifiable and should be punished.
 

Mass One

Member
So everyone gets one "get out of racism free" card?

fuck that. zero tolerance for bullshit. If that leads to a few racist dumbasses ruining their lives I'm not going to cry for them. Society should expect them to not be racist by that age.

Everyone's an adult until they screw up.

By definition they can't be adults if they do something horrible.
So they have to be children.
Children don't understand the concept of empathy or consequences.
It'll be cruel to ruin a child's life because they don't understand anything.
So you can't punish them.
 
What? No.

I am talking about proportion in punishment.
Losing multiple years and grades for one stupid action seems abut much.

There should be consequences, there should be a strong signal, I think we agree on that.

My suggestion would be to make them redo the current year along with a stern warning: if they ever pull that shit again, they are dispelled for life.

You said that the punishment was too harsh because the racists have been then longer than the victims.

What does the university have to gain by keeping these students on their campus?

They are not getting out free, they have thrown away an entire year of studying.

If they learn, they learn. If they pull that shit again, they're gone. Give them extra classes on racism while they redo the year.

Going all gung-ho on them will result in A: re-inforcing their believes and B: a bunch of wild racist students running through Texas probably harassing more people to take "revenge".

This makes no sense. A harsh punishment will result in a teachable moment but an even harsher punishment will cause them to remain racist and trigger a backlash by other racists?
 

Oversoul

Banned
That's the sort of punishment you give for things people might not know is wrong. They knew what they were doing and what it meant.

They also represent the school. Why want to protect them?

Maybe it's a regional difference. I live in Europe, The Netherlands. You practically have to murder someone to get expelled from college here.

Then again, this kind of shit is unheard of here.
 

Dabanton

Member
What? No.

I am talking about proportion in punishment.
Losing multiple years and grades for one stupid action seems abut much.

There should be consequences, there should be a strong signal, I think we agree on that.

My suggestion would be to make them redo the current year along with a stern warning: if they ever pull that shit again, they are dispelled for life.

What consequences would you think is right for this

two black female high school juniors were part of a larger group touring the campus when they were approached by a white female Texas A&M student who asked the girls if they liked her earrings -- which were replicas of the Confederate flag.

Nearby, a group of white male and female students began harassing the larger group of 60 high school students by using racial epithets and telling them to "go back where you came from."

Is that a ' one stupid action'? Or a very calculated disgusting one? personally they should be thrown off campus, if those are their thoughts and they're happy to share them, with total strangers, what do they bring to A&M?
 
I honestly think public colleges and universities should be exempt from this. Harassment is unjustifiable and should be punished.

Harassment isn't protected, no. There just seems to be a very strict test to see if someone has something that is purely speech or also harassment. I'd actually say that making statements discouraging someone from attending something or being somewhere public like a university based on a protected class like race is intimidating and harassment.
 

Oversoul

Banned
You said that the punishment was too harsh because the racists have been then longer than the victims.

What does the university have to gain by keeping these students on their campus?



This makes no sense. A harsh punishment will result in a teachable moment but an even harsher punishment will cause them to remain racist and trigger a backlash by other racists?

That's because the harsher punishment makes them LEAVE the school, which diminishes the chance of educating them to zero. Which instills the belief that the school has zero trust in them to change.

Lack of trust and external push will just leave them in the equivalent of an echo chamber doing racist shit together, burdening society.
 
I could see them being expelled. If it makes them more racist, well they should develop some personality responsibility and get themselves out of it :p.
 
Lack of trust and external push will just leave them in the equivalent of an echo chamber doing racist shit together, burdening society.
They do this anyway! I think there is a cultural difference from where you're at that makes it harder for you to understand just how widespread this sort of thing is without anyone ever seeing any repercussion.
 
That's because the harsher punishment makes them LEAVE the school, which diminishes the chance of educating them to zero. Which instills the belief that the school has zero trust in them to change.

Lack of trust and external push will just leave them in the equivalent of an echo chamber doing racist shit together, burdening society.

Why do we care about educating them? They've had all the chances in the world to educate themselves. Either you learn how to be a human being or you're ostracized from society.

Why are these people so worthy of redemption?
 

NeOak

Member
I live in NW Houston. Most people don't have an accent. None of my friends have an accent, I don't have an accent, my immediate family don't have accent, and most of my coworkers don't have an accent.
No, they do. You do. You're just really used to it so you think they or you don't have one.

I don't mean the stereotypical redneck accent though.

You need to travel more. Really. Everyone in the planet has an accent. Including you, me, and the rest.
 

FStubbs

Member
Well, it's the Queen's English. So the Queen of England doesn't have an accent. IF you sound like her, neither do you.

So all of us Americans have accents.
 
That's because the harsher punishment makes them LEAVE the school, which diminishes the chance of educating them to zero. Which instills the belief that the school has zero trust in them to change.

Lack of trust and external push will just leave them in the equivalent of an echo chamber doing racist shit together, burdening society.

Why should the school trust them? Why would a college student need to be educated that going up to potential classmates and harassing/threatening them based on race is wrong?

It's not the responsibility of the university to un-racist someone.
 

Oversoul

Banned
They do this anyway! I think there is a cultural difference from where you're at that makes it harder for you to understand just how widespread this sort of thing is without anyone ever seeing any repercussion.

That might be true. It's not that I can't see your point.

I also don't think there is a whole lotta chance that they will change.

However, there is one thing I know for sure: the chance of changing these racist will always be zero if they lose their entire study as a consequence and go to the streets.

So a punishment that is both severe (appropriate) and keeps them in school (maybe combined with a sort of anti-racism classes?) would be my preferred option.
 

Oversoul

Banned
Why do we care about educating them? They've had all the chances in the world to educate themselves. Either you learn how to be a human being or you're ostracized from society.

Why are these people so worthy of redemption?

Because the West is a place of second chances (especially for young people). Why should racists be the exception?

If you are right and they can't be changed, they'll be fucked anyway. Believe in second chances is widespread. Third chances? Not so much.
 

Kthulhu

Member
No, they do. You do. You're just really used to it so you think they or you don't have one.

I don't mean the stereotypical redneck accent though.

You need to travel more. Really. Everyone in the planet has an accent. Including you, me, and the rest.

I was referring to a stereotypical southern accent, not the literal meaning of the word.
 

FiraB

Banned
West's office released a statement Thursday saying two black female high school juniors were part of a larger group touring the campus when they were approached by a white female Texas A&M student who asked the girls if they liked her earrings -- which were replicas of the Confederate flag
Love this part, those two girls should go take a history class that isnt whitewashed and realize how fucking stupid they are.
 
Because the West is a place of second chances (especially for young people). Why should racists be the exception?

If you are right and they can't be changed, they'll be fucked anyway. Believe in second chances is widespread. Third chances? Not so much.

Colleges don't teach courses in how not to be a racist.
 
However, there is one thing I know for sure: the chance of changing these racist will always be zero if they lose their entire study as a consequence and go to the streets.

Is it? Usually people will use a punishment/setback as an opportunity for reflection on their own behavior. With the severity of this punishment anyone who comes out on the other side going, "Well they punished me too harshly so I was certainly in the right and will continue to practice what got me in such horrible trouble in the first place" has a personal failing on their end. If any of these students can not recognize what was so reprehensible about representing their school by bullying high schoolers with vitriolic, bigoted rhetoric is the same kind of person who wouldn't have learned anything even with a lenient punishment. This wasn't just a foolish prank, these students literally painted a gross picture of their school to eager potential students. The school is entirely in their right to refuse to teach basic deencey and respect for others to students that should have had it before they'd even applied to their program.
 

Oversoul

Banned
Is it? Usually people will use a punishment/setback as an opportunity for reflection on their own behavior. With the severity of this punishment anyone who comes out on the other side going, "Well they punished me too harshly so I was certainly in the right and will continue to practice what got me in such horrible trouble in the first place" has a personal failing on their end. If any of these students can not recognize what was so reprehensible about representing their school by bullying high schoolers with vitriolic, bigoted rhetoric is the same kind of person who wouldn't have learned anything even with a lenient punishment. This wasn't just a foolish prank, these students literally painted a gross picture of their school to eager potential students. The school is entirely in their right to refuse to teach basic deencey and respect for others to students that should have had it before they'd even applied to their program.

Well, fair enough, perhaps I was undervaluing the gravity of the acts.

Maybe you guys are right.
 
Well, fair enough, perhaps I was undervaluing the gravity of the acts.

Maybe you guys are right.

I mean just as a school as a business alone, putting out to potential customers that you or the people that use your product hate your race on a fundamental level; there's no excuse for that. It can't be washed away, it can't be brushed off. The visiting high schoolers now have a coloring of the school that goes beyond the surface and cuts to the heart of what their experience at A&M. I don't fault the school for getting rid of students who couldn't handle something as simple as "don't make any other students feel like we're an institution that thrives on oppressing others for how they look". There's more than enough students out there who'd love to be accepted who learned that lesson back in elementary school and don't need it taught to them again.
 

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
Why do we care about educating them? They've had all the chances in the world to educate themselves. Either you learn how to be a human being or you're ostracized from society.

Why are these people so worthy of redemption?

Last I checked, we don't have a walled city to throw in all the miscreants, undesirables and other dregs where we can pretend they don't exist. They aren't going to disappear, so acting on said policy isn't going to fix anything. I've found that college age kids are every bit as ignorant as the high school kids they once were, only cynical enough to think they have everything figured out. At almost age 42, I can tell you you don't stop learning, especially about other people, and you never stop messing up.

Now in this case, expulsion may be whats warranted, and if that happens, you hope some of these kids will have that epiphany and realize that shit cannot be tolerated in today's society. Most of them that have that attitude have probably never truly interacted with someone else from a different race or background from them. So yeah, if it were my decision, I'd community service the hell out of them. Take them out of their comfort zone and force them to deal with other people on an equal basis. I'd hope that would change some of them, even if not all of them.
 
Because the West is a place of second chances (especially for young people). Why should racists be the exception?

If you are right and they can't be changed, they'll be fucked anyway. Believe in second chances is widespread. Third chances? Not so much.

I don't really understand what second chance is needed? Second chance to do what? Not say racist shit to secondary school kids minding their own business? Do you need to even be told this?
 
Article from The Guardian making the rounds around town today. It also talks about several other instances of racism in the past. Hint: It's not pretty

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/19/texas-am-high-school-students-harassed-racism-on-campus

After students allegedly aimed racial slurs at a group of high school students touring campus, some students say ‘we could easily become another Mizzou’

Gallimore believes the university hierarchy is under pressure to punish the perpetrators of last week’s slurs given increased national scrutiny of campus racism prompted by high-profile incidents at the University of Oklahoma and the University of Missouri last year.

“A&M knows that if they do not at least look on paper like they’re addressing these issues, we could easily become another Mizzou,” said Gallimore, the president of the university’s branch of the NAACP.

“We’re appreciative of the steps that the president and the administration have taken to recognise this problem but we also definitely know that this is not an isolated incident and actually stuff like this has happened quite often on Texas A&M’s campus, it’s just frequently swept under the rug [or not reported].”

“Whenever we have events we frequently get backlash. Actually, pretty much all the time,” he said. “We had a Black Lives Matter march on this campus after Michael Brown was shot [in Ferguson, Missouri] and while we were walking around, marching, there were people on social media saying that we needed to go back to Prairie View A&M University, which is predominantly black. Saying the N-word, racial slurs, why are we doing this, we’re stupid.”

Gallimore said that a friend was walking on the edge of the campus last year when a white person in a car yelled “go back to the cotton fields”. A student with a whiteboard on her dorm room door found the N-word scrawled on it. He has seen Confederate flags pinned to the windows in residence halls and has been asked why there isn’t a national organisation for the advancement of white people.

Ten years ago, a professor described racism at A&M as “institutional” amid protests when a blackface video emerged featuring a white student pretending to be a slave.

Yet despite outreach efforts, its demographics do not reflect the wider population of Texas. Only 3.6% of students are black while 19.5% are Hispanic and 59.5% are white. In the state as a whole, census figures put the percentage of black people at 12.5%, Hispanic people at 38.6% and white people at 43.5%.

Crump’s student experience is not only tinged by flagrant prejudice but by small, often unwitting acts that reinforce her sense of separateness: the classmate who assumed she plays basketball because she is black; the students handing out fliers to passers-by who do double-takes when they see her skin colour.

“I hate to say it but I just kind of accept it; I don’t really pay much mind to it or take offence to it. A lot of people are just ignorant. But I guess I would feel more conscious of it here just because it’s very evident here that it’s a very small black population,” she said.

There is an expectation that black people are at the college for sports, rather than academics, she said: “People say ‘I wish I were black so I could get all the scholarship money’.”

Fun Fact:
The former president of A&M, Dr. R. Bowen Loftin, ended his presidency at A&M to become the Chancellor of Mizzou. He stepped down last year amidst the racial tensions and incidents there.
 

Surfinn

Member
Sorry if I'm late, but:

"According to West, the confrontation was witnessed by TAMU officials accompanying the students. A campus police officer initially said the university students were expressing their First Amendment rights, though a report was made on the incident."

..wow. That's an even bigger problem. Disgusting..
 
Expulsion is too good for them. They crossed the line from mere expression to harassment on the basis of race and nationality. They can find another school more tolerant of that type of behavior, learn from their mistakes and turn over a new leaf, or learn to keep their fool mouths shut while on school grounds when the racist impulse hits.
 

Lonely1

Unconfirmed Member
There is an expectation that black people are at the college for sports, rather than academics, she said: “People say ‘I wish I were black so I could get all the scholarship money’.”

And the people who feel like that surely boycott all the sports events and teams, right!? :-/
 

Zoe

Member
Sorry if I'm late, but:

"According to West, the confrontation was witnessed by TAMU officials accompanying the students. A campus police officer initially said the university students were expressing their First Amendment rights, though a report was made on the incident."

..wow. That's an even bigger problem. Disgusting..

As already mentioned, legally that is the extent of what the police officer could do.
 

Surfinn

Member
As already mentioned, legally that is the extent of what the police officer could do.
Is there more to this part of this story? Sounds to me like he simply mentioned his opinion that the students were expressing their first amendment right, then filed a report on the incident. The former is the part that stood out to me as highly inappropriate.
 

Zoe

Member
Is there more to this part of this story? Sounds to me like he simply mentioned his opinion that the students were expressing their first amendment right, then filed a report on the incident. The former is the part that stood out to me as highly inappropriate.

If they're questioning him why he's not doing anything, what else is he supposed to say?
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Did that popo, really just say "first amendment rights"? To casual racism on a supposed top tier school? Nigga is this 2016 or 1966?
 
If I were an administrator, I would require them to take courses that would broaden their perspective. Give them something to take back to their communities and pass on to their kids. Kicking them out will likely perpetuate a cycle of ignorance.
 
If I were an administrator, I would require them to take courses that would broaden their perspective. Give them something to take back to their communities and pass on to their kids. Kicking them out will likely perpetuate a cycle of ignorance.

I'd boot em to get them out of the hair of ordinary sensible students trying to gain knowledge.
 

The Lamp

Member
Update from the university president.

MICHAEL K. YOUNG
PRESIDENT

March 2, 2016

I want to share with the university community the status of the investigations into the racial incident on February 9, 2016, by the Dean of Student Life and University Police Department (UPD). I also want to communicate some of our recent and future actions to further advance and deepen diversity and inclusion on our campus.

The two separate investigations began immediately and included as extensive interviews as we were able to conduct with students, bystanders and witnesses and a review of all information that was made available to the University. The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) limits what information we are legally allowed to release. The law does not permit us to publicly disclose information associated with the Dean of Student Life investigation other than to say that one of the many students interviewed is no longer associated with Texas A&M University. The case has concluded. However, if additional information comes to our attention we will further investigate and take any appropriate action.

The police investigation was concluded and all information was turned over to the Brazos County attorney's office for review. We have been informed that the county attorney has declined to pursue any action related to the case. I have asked that the information associated with the police investigation be made publicly available, in accordance with both open records and privacy laws, through appropriate channels.

Previously, the media had reported that there was a video of the actual incident. We are not aware of any such video, nor has anyone provided us with any video. I have asked UPD to review and reopen the investigation as appropriate if additional information is brought to our attention. I also would like to repeat from my earlier message to campus that Texas A&M has the website stophate.tamu.edu available for the reporting of racially based incidents and other hateful biased-based incidents.

Focusing on diversity and inclusion

I would like to mention some previous actions that have taken place in this regard, as well as highlight some future initiatives we will undertake. Texas A&M significantly revised our overall diversity plan in 2010, which has been recently featured for its multidimensional approach to engaging diversity on campus. This periodic revision is an important part of our plan, though we well understand we have so much more to accomplish in order to truly make a systemic change at Texas A&M.

I am engaging University and community leaders, including faculty administrators, staff, and students, in a "call to action" to review current initiatives and measures and to propose new ones, in areas such as recruitment, retention, climate assessment and course and curricular change. Here is a list of some of the activities planned, as well as those already being undertaken. I'm particularly pleased that many of these were recommended to us by various student groups and we are delighted to work with everyone to implement them.

-- Moving our STOPHATE desktop website to a mobile platform to allow easier and more timely reporting by students and the community. This should be completed in April of 2016.

-- Implementing mandatory "Community of Respect" seminars for all students at New Student Conferences, beginning the summer of 2016, as well as other cultural competency training that is grounded in theory and has proven success.

-- The Faculty Senate has scheduled an open forum on March 2 and 3 to hear ideas on responding to in-class incidents and how to make the required International and Cultural Diversity classes more applicable and purposeful.

-- Created permanent funding for our Aggies to Aggies Diversity Peer Education Program, starting this fall.

-- Created a mandatory Effective Communication Module, which will be required for two or more officers of every student organization to assist in them in conducting effective dialogues and meaningful conflict resolution starting in April 2016

Working together to build a dynamic campus

As we all reflect on the various events on our campus, and those around the country over the past few months, it is impossible to ignore the importance of the principles of inclusion and diversity. But despite all the headlines, it is sometimes easy to lose sight of just why it is so important to all of us here at Texas A&M.

As a leading institution of higher education, we are the vanguard in affecting positive change in the attitudes and actions of future generations. We are called upon to lead our communities and make a difference because the consequences of such acts are intolerable. This change is essential in our ability to thrive and grow as our world diversifies. We are launching our students into a world where they will need to work with everyone to be successful in addressing the great societal challenges that we, as a country, face.

As your President, I hope I am always open to that which challenges me and makes me uncomfortable, but that I always respond with the essential core value of respect in all that I do. I hope all of you do so as well and join me in embedding all of the Aggie core values in all that we do. In this way, we can eliminate fear and lead with hope in an effort to build a nurturing and respectful environment.

Michael K. Young

I commend the school for handling the issue. Good riddens to the student.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom