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[Dust-by-Monday]

Not on a 27 inch monitor…

Still looks worse than 4K on a 27-28 inch monitor

 

[StateofMajora]

That's not quite what I meant, because the Sony X1 Ultimate and XR 8K screens will attempt to enhance the source material to occupy more unique pixels even if it starts at 480p, but they don't need 1:1 dimming zones as demonstrated by how well 600 - 800 clusters does at 4K - or even +30 zones on your own do, the dimming can be much lower orders than 4 or 8K.

I suspect the reason 600 zones is still very good is that when you look at the channels of a histogram of a scene image, rarely are there situations - even with a star field - where the channels don't overlap with lots of common base intensity across most of the image, This should allow the local dimming zones to focus on the delta intensities - although I imagine it is far more complicated as it is probably taking the current - and two previous images - and minifying them to an image the size of the master backlight drive zones to get a base and zone delta intensity, and then using AI to predict the next minified frame's zone intensities, and then using that info to bias the current frame zone intensity - so they can minimise zone bloom between successive frames.

My point about needing at least 3200 zones/clusters in the Z9K to maintain the same level of controlled local dimming at 8K as the Z9D still sounds right to me, and unless that comparison in the video I linked is completely false even counting with the coarser 3x3 sized unique clusters/zones, I still think the Z9K is going to have about 5k-10k zones, or is going to be a huge disappointment for what it costs and how it has been marketed as a big step up from the Z9D.

I see.

Well look at this way, z9k doesn't cost any more than z9j did, and they're adding mini led and many more zones, so at the very least it's more performance for the money.

My guess is around 2000 zones or less, but we will see when the reviews FINALLY come out because wow it's taking a long time!

2000~ zones with Sony's superior algorithm should be amazing and better than anything else for accurate blooming control. Sony likes to talk about it's not how many zones you have, but how you use them, which is another reason I would be shocked if z9k had 5000 zones. They have a point (once you see how terrible the 2000 zone lg mini led performs) but at the same time the amount of zones they've been using for their 4k TV's has been really disappointing, sans z9D.

 

[BlackTron]

I wish 1440 was standard for consoles now and all that extra horsepower went into the games.

 

[iQuasarLV]

I wish 1440 was standard for consoles now and all that extra horsepower went into the games.

It will be. As soon and Microsoft and Sony finish converting everyone to upscaling to be honest. 1440p to 4k is the zone to upscale to achieve minimal quality loss. Anything beyond that is very noticeable. When the herd is properly used to upscaling you will see a quiet standard implemented to upscale games that are too demanding to naturally push 4k.

Just as with micro-transactions and GAAS games, this will take time but you can already tell that both MS/Sony are committed to this path since it allows them to push marketing.

 

[Fredrik]

Only game I play that doesn’t support it is fall guys but I think that’s more to keep shit fair.

There are going to be issues with older games they for sure don’t like the aspect ratio stuff like Dragon age Inquisition look horrible.

Your going to need hardware that can do 4k gaming and your needed fps. Something like destiny runs at about 120ish fps on my 3080ti/rysen 7 5800x. Stuff like cyber punk runs at 60-70 maxed. Can drop some setting if u need faster

Must be awesome to play Cyberpunk on a 32:9! Could you post a pic?

I decided to postpone the super ultra wide purchase for now, a bit too pricey and it would’ve just ended with a new graphics card too, my PC is way weaker than what you have.

I went with a cheap (in comparison) 1440p 27” 16:9 screen instead, nothing to go wow over at all but it still feels like an upgrade due to the bigger screen size and modern screen tech. Been playing some Cyberpunk and it’s really pushing what my PC can handle. Native res is out of the question, hovers around 55-65fps in crowded areas with RT Ultra if I use DLSS Quality, without DLSS it’s like 30fps…

 

[PaintTinJr]

I see.

Well look at this way, z9k doesn't cost any more than z9j did, and they're adding mini led and many more zones, so at the very least it's more performance for the money.

My guess is around 2000 zones or less, but we will see when the reviews FINALLY come out because wow it's taking a long time!

2000~ zones with Sony's superior algorithm should be amazing and better than anything else for accurate blooming control. Sony likes to talk about it's not how many zones you have, but how you use them, which is another reason I would be shocked if z9k had 5000 zones. They have a point (once you see how terrible the 2000 zone lg mini led performs) but at the same time the amount of zones they've been using for their 4k TV's has been really disappointing, sans z9D.

I'm not surprised at all by the cost cutting zone counts since the release of the Z9D(for 4K HDR), because every 5-10years or so - when there's a TV paradigm shift, Full HD->3D->4K->4K HDR->8K HDR->8K cognitive processing->8K miniLeD) Sony seemingly launches a new flagship TV that is costing more to make than they want at the entry size - probably subbed by a marketing budget - and then proceed to add cheaper features on the follow ups like, processing or a hdmi spec bump or refresh rate option, etc, while subbing out luxury build and the high cost expensive parts, if possible, And usually try using more DSP - which is a free moore's law gain on a follow up model - to offset a lot of the image quality losses by - say - dropping a quantum dot panel or master backlight drive feature. I suspect Sony's focus is only at the top-end of LCD and OLED model, and would happily let someone else make their non-flagship screens - including the x95K - to their specs and pay them for using the design and name.

The Z9D was a bit of an oddity for build quality IMO and the X1 Extreme and master back light drive clearly cost a fortune, because by comparison to other screens like the 3D Bravia Kdl HX853, with its luxury soundbar stand, and the 4K Bravia KD X9005a with super thick Gorilla/Rhino glass and (elephant ear) magnetic fluid speakers and Quantum dot panel and luxury solid metal circular stand, secondary one-touch bluetooth remote. The Z9D is really basic and just about the TV performance, as though there was nothing over to spend on luxury, even the remote has poor buttons that drain the batteries much quicker. It feels odd because the Sony A series OLEDs that launched with with the entire panel vibrating to act as a speaker system - delivering audio coherently from the source on the image - give off a luxury finish by comparison.

From what I can see, the Z9K looks pretty budget aesthetic like the Z9D, so hopefully they have spent all their R&D budget on a Super-master backlight drive, given that the XR chip looks to be in much cheaper models too, and they've done a cheaper 4K miniLED version suggesting that the miniLED at 4K alone doesn't justify the cost difference of X to Z.

If the £1,000 27" gaming monitor by Sony releases before the Z9K, it will be interesting to see how many local dimming zones they have, because it might give an idea of how well they've shrunk the master backlight drive technology with regards to the Z9K and beyond.

 

[Azelover]

I bought a 4K TV because my older TV broke, and I wanted something good.

I was blown away by the quality, though. My older TV was 720p. I didn't buy a new one in a while because I'm stingy.

So I went from 720p straight to 4K. Awesome experience. Would recommend.

 

[rofif]

dat F R A M E D R O P

What games can you play at native 4K without framerate issues? My PC is struggling even at 1440p. DLSS and G-sync saves the day though.

framedrop?
that's a money problem and it's already solved.
4k120 is doable in almost every game out there.
People clinging to their precious 1440p just dont have the best gear and talk from their pov.

4k is objectively better. There is no doubt about it. It's just not more economical/wallet friendly

 

[jshaver488]

I swear we're going through this every decade or so:
-1280x1024 is too much, 800x600 is fine;
-1920x1080 is a waste, 1680x1050 is just as good;
-4K is pointless, 1440p is the sweet-spot;
-8K...

I don’t think it’s the same at all though. There really is big diminishing returns. I can tell a bigger difference between 1080p vs 1440p, then I can for 1440p vs 4K.
Even though 1440p to 4K is a greater pixel multiplier

 

[Warnen]

Must be awesome to play Cyberpunk on a 32:9! Could you post a pic?

I decided to postpone the super ultra wide purchase for now, a bit too pricey and it would’ve just ended with a new graphics card too, my PC is way weaker than what you have.

I went with a cheap (in comparison) 1440p 27” 16:9 screen instead, nothing to go wow over at all but it still feels like an upgrade due to the bigger screen size and modern screen tech. Been playing some Cyberpunk and it’s really pushing what my PC can handle. Native res is out of the question, hovers around 55-65fps in crowded areas with RT Ultra if I use DLSS Quality, without DLSS it’s like 30fps…

Will do I’ll try get it tonight after work

 

[Pegasus Actual]

I don’t think it’s the same at all though. There really is big diminishing returns. I can tell a bigger difference between 1080p vs 1440p, then I can for 1440p vs 4K.
Even though 1440p to 4K is a greater pixel multiplier

At this point I'm convinced it's just 100% weirdos who sit way too close to their screen and get off on having a really clear view of the 10% of their screen they can actually see.

 

[LordBlodgett]

I agree if you are playing on a 27" monitor. Different on a 65" TV

 

[Celcius]

dat F R A M E D R O P

What games can you play at native 4K without framerate issues? My PC is struggling even at 1440p. DLSS and G-sync saves the day though.

My 3090 goes through 4K like a knife through hot butter

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I agree if you are playing on a 27" monitor. Different on a 65" TV

I am an older gamer at 30 years old with an extra 25 years of experience with old eyes and when sitting side by side even at 27" native 4k shines.

The difference becomes way less dramatic when you play at 4k pause the game then leave the room for awhile and come back and play 1440p, the eyes adjust really quickly as maxed settings at 1440p look really nice at 27"

 

[Genx3]

dat F R A M E D R O P

What games can you play at native 4K without framerate issues? My PC is struggling even at 1440p. DLSS and G-sync saves the day though.

VRS is a thing now a days.
The parts of the scene that needs to be 4K is 4K quality and when the HW can't keep up the parts of the scene that the player is not focused on are rendered at a lower quality. Best of both worlds.

 

[Mattdaddy]

I need both. I've gamed in 4K and Im not going back. I've gamed at 120fps and Im not going back.

Bust open that piggy bank 4090 here I come baby!!

 

[OverHeat]

My 3090 goes through 4K like a knife through hot butter

Not at max settings with ray tracing it’s not…I know because I have one too. Keep lying to yourself

 

[CaptainSlayAHo]

Becoming increasingly convinced half the people in this thread have never had a GOOD 4k panel

 

[StateofMajora]

Not at max settings with ray tracing it’s not…I know because I have one too. Keep lying to yourself

Max settings are for old/undemanding games. On current games it's just wasted performance, except for a few settings, and textures

 

[Celcius]

Not at max settings with ray tracing it’s not…I know because I have one too. Keep lying to yourself

I run COD Cold War at 4K max settings with ray tracing included just fine. Not sure what else to tell you.

 

[StateofMajora]

I run COD Cold War at 4K max settings with ray tracing included just fine. Not sure what else to tell you.

How's your PC run metro Exodus enhanced out of curiosity? Do you target 60 or 120 on games typically?

 

[Celcius]

How's your PC run metro Exodus enhanced out of curiosity? Do you target 60 or 120 on games typically?

I’ve never played Metro but I only have a 60hz monitor (with freesync/ gsync).

 

[StateofMajora]

I’ve never played Metro but I only have a 60hz monitor (with freesync/ gsync).

Oh man yeah I bet you are cutting through 4k like butter!

 

[OverHeat]

I’ve never played Metro but I only have a 60hz monitor (with freesync/ gsync).

Upgrade time your missing out. 60hz is wacko

 

[Celcius]

Upgrade time your missing out. 60hz is wacko

To be honest with you, 30 fps doesn’t even bother me lol. I always chose more eye candy over frame rate

 

[StateofMajora]

Upgrade time your missing out. 60hz is wacko

I do agree Celcius , you should get a nice 120hz OLED haha.

But count your blessings you're not too bothered with lower fps, I've become a straight up motion snob lol.

 

[Esca]

4k is just better

 

[Efren is G.O.A.T.]

I currently game at 1440p on a 144hz monitor and it's really great. It's an older Acer XB270HU with a 3080ti+12700k and them fps are sweet.

I will switch to PC 4k gaming when the hardware will be able to provide 120fps+ at ultra with ray tracing consistently.

 

[hussar16]

check your tv or monitor theres a big difference

 

[Fredrik]

VRS is a thing now a days.
The parts of the scene that needs to be 4K is 4K quality and when the HW can't keep up the parts of the scene that the player is not focused on are rendered at a lower quality. Best of both worlds.

Haven’t tried that. Some kind of tunnel vision?
Anyway I know there are techs that can improve the performance, like I said I use DLSS when I have to. But I think it’s kinda hit and miss to invest in an expensive screen to get a crispy image if you find out that you need to use techs that makes the screen less crispy. And there will always be games that don’t use that, leaving you with the choice of either lowering the resolution or lowering some graphics settings, instead of what most want - native resolution and Ultra everything.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

It's been few weeks since I've changed my previous PC monitor(s) to 42 inch LG C2. When sitting this close to screen this big, anything else than 4k looks not so great.

 

[Fredrik]

It's been few weeks since I've changed my previous PC monitor(s) to 42 inch LG C2. When sitting this close to screen this big, anything else than 4k looks not so great.

Yeah now we’re talking, THAT I can understand, at that point I would want 4K too, and it was a long time since I had 20/20 vision.

I only have a 27” 1440p screen, I can see pixels if I move really close but at regular PC gaming viewing distance of like 70cm or whatever I can’t see any pixels.

 

[buenoblue]

I mean you have 4k OLED so best of both worlds. To say there is no need for higher resolution is a tale as old as Ben Affleck. In a couple years when GPUs can push 4k @240hz no doubt you'll be on it.

 

[supernova8]

Unless you're limited by money, surely it makes sense to get a 4K 120hz TV/monitor and then you have more choice. Reason I say that is because I have a 165hz monitor but I honestly cannot tell the difference if I put it down to 120hz. I can definitely tell if it's running at or around 60fps but once you go over 100fps it all (to me) looks the same.

 

[marjo]

To be honest with you, 30 fps doesn’t even bother me lol. I always chose more eye candy over frame rate

Frame rate IS eye candy!

1440p at 120Hz looks better to me than 4k at 60.

 

[Warnen]

Must be awesome to play Cyberpunk on a 32:9! Could you post a pic?

I decided to postpone the super ultra wide purchase for now, a bit too pricey and it would’ve just ended with a new graphics card too, my PC is way weaker than what you have.

I went with a cheap (in comparison) 1440p 27” 16:9 screen instead, nothing to go wow over at all but it still feels like an upgrade due to the bigger screen size and modern screen tech. Been playing some Cyberpunk and it’s really pushing what my PC can handle. Native res is out of the question, hovers around 55-65fps in crowded areas with RT Ultra if I use DLSS Quality, without DLSS it’s like 30fps…

 

[Fredrik]

No idea know what you did there or if it’s Imgur, that looks like 240p on this end lol

Don’t screen cap, just take a photo with your phone showing the beast sitting on the desk.

Used to play on three 24” screens, it’s the without-bezel look that makes a 32:9 screen so appealing to me.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

For that wide-screen fix I just set a custom resolution in Nvidia control panel. It looks good on OLED as the bars are perfectly black. I used to own a wide-screen monitor but didn't like for every day use.

 

[Warnen]

No idea know what you did there or if it’s Imgur, that looks like 240p on this end lol

Don’t screen cap, just take a photo with your phone showing the beast sitting on the desk.

Used to play on three 24” screens, it’s the without-bezel look that makes a 32:9 screen so appealing to me.

Click link delete everything after and including the #

Wilk bring you to the proper look at the pics, can even download full size