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[MightySquirrel]

Nvidia says falling GPU prices are ‘a story of the past’:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/nvidia-says-falling-gpu-prices-are-over/

Nvidia also did a Q&A with Reddit yesterday:
Q: What makes the GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB and 12 GB graphics cards keep the same “4080” name if they have completely different amounts of CUDA cores and are different chips?

Nvidia: "The GeForce RTX 4080 16GB and 12GB naming is similar to the naming of two versions of RTX 3080 that we had last generation, and others before that. There is an RTX 4080 configuration with a 16GB frame buffer, and a different configuration with a 12GB frame buffer. One product name, two configurations.

The 4080 12GB is an incredible GPU, with performance exceeding our previous generation flagship, the RTX 3090 Ti and 3x the performance of RTX 3080 Ti with support for DLSS 3, so we believe it’s a great 80-class GPU. We know many gamers may want a premium option so the RTX 4080 16GB comes with more memory and even more performance. The two versions will be clearly identified on packaging, product details, and retail so gamers and creators can easily choose the best GPU for themselves."

Oof

Nvidia PR: "Boss how disingenuous you want the statement to sound?"
Leather jacket boss: "YES!"


From their very own official reveal slide we can see ~ 60% diff. between 4090 and 12GB "4080" while the gap between 3090 > 3080 last round were ~ 10%.

Hmm something doesn't add up!? Ok, lets look what was ~ 60% slower on 30 series then? Oh it's ... 3060 Ti.

Well.. I guess asking $900 for 4060 Ti wouldn't look too hot now, so fair play, I guess?

All jokes atm, lets wait for real benchmarks from trusty review sites, but this looks like a disastrous blunder by Nvidia.

 

[RayHell]

Uhh where does it say the 4080 12 gig is less powerful than 3090/3090ti ?

Different architecture. Just because 3090 has more coda cores doesn’t make it better.

Not defending a 3090 ( I have that card and I love it ), but we just don’t have numbers. And even if the 3090 is more powerful. With 3rd Gen ray tracing and dlss3 vs 2 on 3090… I don’t have high hopes

Its right on the Nvidia chart

The first 3 games showed are not using DLSS (pure rasterisation) and you can see that the 4080 12gb cannot beat the 3090. Warhammer and Flight Sim make use of dlss 3 so thats why you see such a gap.

I thinks 3090/3090 ti is still a very good buy specially if you can find it under the 4080 12gb MSRP. Plus you get an extra 12gb of Vram.

Keep in mind that Nvidia will always show the best case senario. And dlss 3 is rumored to have weird artefacts.

 

[John Wick]

And here I thought Sony were bang out of order for their price increase but theirs seems reasonable compared to this next level Nvidia shit. This is scalper territory lmfao. But PCMR will pay it because they like getting it up the arse while complaining about Sony's price hike.

 

[MightySquirrel]

And here I thought Sony were bang out of order for their price increase but theirs seems reasonable compared to this next level Nvidia shit. This is scalper territory lmfao. But PCMR will pay it because they like getting it up the arse while complaining about Sony's price hike.

 

[//DEVIL//]

Its right on the Nvidia chart

The first 3 games showed are not using DLSS (pure rasterisation) and you can see that the 4080 12gb cannot beat the 3090. Warhammer and Flight Sim make use of dlss 3 so thats why you see such a gap.

I thinks 3090/3090 ti is still a very good buy specially if you can find it under the 4080 12gb MSRP. Plus you get an extra 12gb of Vram.

Keep in mind that Nvidia will always show the best case senario. And dlss 3 is rumored to have weird artefacts.

I have a 3090, and trust me I am loving the card . I don’t see the reason to upgrade . But if a 4090 is available at store and for me personally in a white Color to match my build It will be very tempting to me ( and still I wouldn’t pay 3000$ CAD after tax for one either no matter what they can fuck off ).

Still waiting for benchmarks anyway and I won’t count any ray tracing advantages as I don’t use ray tracing in my games

 

[THE DUCK]

High end PC gaming now is like buying a sports car. Not for most people. The consoles are fine for the masses.

Ya, but it used to be sometimes you could get a mustang for half the price that was competitive.

 

[Marlenus]

This raster performance is beatable.

Three games without all the DLSS obfuscation had about 1.6x performance for the 4090 over thr 3090Ti.

A 3090Ti has about 1.17x performance over a 6900XT according to TPU. That puts the 4090 1.87x faster than the 6900XT.

N31 rumours are 2x to 2.5x more performance than the 6900XT. If it hits the low end it will be faster by a margin. If it hits the high end it will be 1 whole performance tier faster and even with a bigger FPS drop for RT there will be enough extra frames that it might still have more FPS.

I wonder if AMD will drop a spoiler around the 4090 launch.

 

[MightySquirrel]

This raster performance is beatable.

Three games without all the DLSS obfuscation had about 1.6x performance for the 4090 over thr 3090Ti.

A 3090Ti has about 1.17x performance over a 6900XT according to TPU. That puts the 4090 1.87x faster than the 6900XT.

N31 rumours are 2x to 2.5x more performance than the 6900XT. If it hits the low end it will be faster by a margin. If it hits the high end it will be 1 whole performance tier faster and even with a bigger FPS drop for RT there will be enough extra frames that it might still have more FPS.

I wonder if AMD will drop a spoiler around the 4090 launch.

The fact that Nvidia was bold enough to ask 900 for, what should have been, an 4060 Ti is alone an indication for me that upcoming AMD cards are not as great as you hope.

 

[hinch7]

I wouldn't even say those are great prices.

When the 3080 first launched, it started at £649 in the UK. That's a responsible price for a top of the range GPU.

The 4080 is launching in the UK for £1269. That's a absolutely insane difference! Even the 4080 12gb (which lets be honest, is the 4070) costs £949.

I can't justify those costs, so unless the price comes down, I'm out of the PC gaming market.

To say, its really tone deaf from Nvidia is an understatement. And factor in as well that they aren't even offering the 4080 12gb in Founder Edition, this time round either so its going to end up costing well over a tonne for a previously XX70/XX60 Ti tier card. In this economy and climate they want to push super premium priced luxury goods when Crypto miners are gone and people aren't willing to chuck away cash as easily. They clearly don't want people buying these cards and instead pushing buyers towards their previous generation unsold inventory. And their TOTL SKU for fuck you money.

There's a reason why advertise the 3000 series cards along side 4000 series cards on their presentation.

 

[Marlenus]

The fact that Nvidia was bold enough to ask 900 for, what should have been, an 4060 Ti is alone an indication for me that upcoming AMD cards are not as great as you hope.

Nvidia know they have enough customers that buy NV no matter what that they can charge the ludicrous prices and get sales.

Also NV are doing it to sell remaining Ampere cards at around MSRP and they can then lower 4k series pricing to compete with AMD because the 4080 12GB is going to have a very competitive and reasonably priced N33 (7600XT) nipping at its heels performance wise if N33 hits the 6900XT @ 1080p / 1440p performance target.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Ya, but it used to be sometimes you could get a mustang for half the price that was competitive.

I'm 39. I remember the "good ol days" as well. Them days are long over. People are buying the GPUs at these prices which means they are not overpriced. Trying the complain to or insult people that can afford to buy at these prices and have no problem doing so, would be like me who drives a 2017 Prius crying about all the other people who pay to drive a better automobile than me that they shouldn't so it gets down to a price range that's reasonable for me. My previous car was a KIA. It was cheap. Now that KIA is established in the US market they are way more expensive.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

The 4080 12GB is a straight up scam. I see people saying that should be 4070. No that should be the 4060 Ti with it's 192-bit memory bus. Fucking shitty. The 4080 16GB really should be the 4070 Ti. The real 4080 should get about 11K Cuda cores with the inevitable 4080 Ti getting 13-14,000.

I hope gamers straight up reject these models. Not getting my hopes up.

 

[THE DUCK]

I'm 39. I remember the "good ol days" as well. Them days are long over. People are buying the GPUs at these prices which means they are not overpriced. Trying the complain to or insult people that can afford to buy at these prices and have no problem doing so, would be like me who drives a 2017 Prius crying about all the other people who pay to drive a better automobile than me that they shouldn't so it gets down to a price range that's reasonable for me. My previous car was a KIA. It was cheap. Now that KIA is established in the US market they are way more expensive.

They don't have to be over, the lack of price competition is allowing nvidia to overprice these. I guess I don't blame them in that regard in a way just going to look really bad if amd comes out relatively soon with something similar for $999. Not crying that I can't afford it (since i coukd if i really want to) or insulting anyone who can, just don't see enough value in it right now personally.

 

[GreatnessRD]

The 4080 12GB is a straight up scam. I see people saying that should be 4070. No that should be the 4060 Ti with it's 192-bit memory bus. Fucking shitty. The 4080 16GB really should be the 4070 Ti. The real 4080 should get about 11K Cuda cores with the inevitable 4080 Ti getting 13-14,000.

I hope gamers straight up reject these models. Not getting my hopes up.

That's slightly what Nvidia wants to happen. The overabundance of 30 series card is so crazy, they want consumers to buy up that 2 year old stock at regular MSRP, lmao. They know the hardcore will buy the 40 series regardless if Jacket Man is spitting in their face. So its a win-win for Nividia.

That Nvidia mindshare is something else I tell you fucking what, lol.

 

[Black_Stride]

4070 12GB for 900 dollars???

Hahahahaha absolutely not.

Will wait for the 4080Ti 20GB.

 

[b0uncyfr0]

AMD really has a chance here - will they be smart about it though? Prob not..
They still want to seen as competing with NV on an equal footing even though their RT implementation is still very weak.

 

[winjer]

AMD has an advantage in not having as big a stock of RNDA2 GPUs left to sell, as nvidia has of Ampere.
nvidia is trying not to cannibalize the 3000 series, by not releasing lower end skus and by having a gigantic price for the RTX 4000.
But AMD has no concerns for that, so they can attack all segments.
This could be a great opportunity for AMD to increase it's market share.
But I bet that AMD is not going to do that. Instead, they are going to try the same price gouging as nvidia.

 

[GymWolf]

I still kinda want a 4080 but now i'm open to see what amd is gonna do, and i'm even down for a 3090 in the 800-900 euros range.

If dlss 3 also increase input lag maybe it is not the super deal we were expecting.

 

[GreatnessRD]

4070 12GB for 900 dollars???

Hahahahaha absolutely not.

Will wait for the 4080Ti 20GB.

Might as well grab the 4090 FE for all that. If the real 4080 is $1200, the 4080 Ti is gonna be what? $1400? Might as well cut the bullshit and grab the 4090 at $1600, lol. (Emphasis on Founders version as we know the AIB cards gonna be close to 2K, lmao)

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

AMD really has a chance here - will they be smart about it though? Prob not..
They still want to seen as competing with NV on an equal footing even though their RT implementation is still very weak.

Coming in with lower prices to build that market share long term or maximizing profit by demanding what you can get away with next to nvidia short term. What will shareholders prefer?

 

[KungFucius]

The 4080 12GB is a straight up scam. I see people saying that should be 4070. No that should be the 4060 Ti with it's 192-bit memory bus. Fucking shitty. The 4080 16GB really should be the 4070 Ti. The real 4080 should get about 11K Cuda cores with the inevitable 4080 Ti getting 13-14,000.

I hope gamers straight up reject these models. Not getting my hopes up.

Because NVidia should slice their specs up the same every gen because ... why exactly? Shouldn't a company be allowed to shift their spec/price ratios around in the way that they think best meets the market? The numbers and suffixes of cards changes each gen as does the performance differences and of course price. It's not some standardized system with rules, its a complex marketing strategy.

I don't like the names for the 4080s either because there is way too much performance difference between 4080 and 4080 other than 4GB. They should have named them with a distinction that was more than memory. 4070 and 4080 would have been fine and nobody would have complained about the names, just the prices as would slapping a "Ti" or "super" on the good one. Not everyone is going to understand that there is a difference in every component in the 2 4080s that "justifies" the price difference. As someone who moved from 6 series level cards to 7 then 8 and then 9 I am glad that there is reasonable separation in specs between the good 4080 and the 4090. Last time It was pay more than 2x MSRP for the 3080 for a 3090 to get 10% more performance. Now it is pay 33% more to get 10% to 30% more performance. That is much more compelling if you were thinking of getting the good 4080. I think that will lure a few more people into the top tier and once they are in the top tier, they are there for life.

Looking at the chart above, the claim that the 4090 is 2x to 4x faster than 3090Ti is BS. It is 1.5x better in Ubisoft open world games. Some might argue that these are not games so the stat is OK, but Ubisoft will continue to crank out these types of games and they won't run 2x faster if you upgrade from 3090Ti to 4090.

 

[Die Namek Ability]

Best thing to do is not buy them...let nvidia stew this time for siding with miners. Then they have no option to drop the price...right?


....right?

Buys 4090 through my work...

What do you mean "siding with miners"? Also if you had a business model and it was to sell things would it make sense to ostracize the majority of your demographic because you dont like what they do with your product?

 

[GHG]

Anyone know any outlets that include VR benchmarks as part of their usual review suite?

 

[winjer]

 

[Mister Wolf]

Might as well grab the 4090 FE for all that. If the real 4080 is $1200, the 4080 Ti is gonna be what? $1400? Might as well cut the bullshit and grab the 4090 at $1600, lol. (Emphasis on Founders version as we know the AIB cards gonna be close to 2K, lmao)

That's how I see it. Doubt I'll be lucky enough to snag one though.

 

[winjer]

 

[Buggy Loop]

Anyone know any outlets that include VR benchmarks as part of their usual review suite?

I don’t know of any that include VR in typical reviews but,

https://babeltechreviews.com/category/virtual-reality/

These guys benchmarks for VR like no others. Very detailed reviews

 

[GreatnessRD]

That's how I see it. Doubt I'll be lucky enough to snag one though.

I think you will. I truly believe you'll be able to snag one on launch.

 

[GHG]

I don’t know of any that include VR in typical reviews but,

https://babeltechreviews.com/category/virtual-reality/

These guys benchmarks for VR like no others. Very detailed reviews

Thanks, will bookmark and keep an eye on their coverage for the 4000 series.

 

[b0uncyfr0]

Coming in with lower prices to build that market share long term or maximizing profit by demanding what you can get away with next to nvidia short term. What will shareholders prefer?

Profit now is always preferred over future gains.

 

[Hot5pur]

Seems the entire internet is sour about Nvidia.
I don't know if AMD will be competitive unless they pull a chiplet miracle like with CPUs.
It's also possible Nvidia and AMD conspire to keep GPU prices high, there are so few players in the market so why not. Huge profit margins look better than market share on a balance sheet, perhaps?

I'm sure this will also make people getting into gaming think twice before going PC. They can buy a PS5 or Xbox SX which will look very similar for a fraction of the cost of a nice PC. Mind you I appreciate high FPS, raytracing and maxing things out, but the diminishing returns set in so quickly you hardly notice the difference sometimes (eg. HIGH vs. ULTRA settings in most games).
A $500 box will just outcompete a $1000-1500 high end PC for most people. Now with rising GPU prices that'll be even more true. At least if one intends the system strictly for gaming.

Very curious to see what AMD does now. I was kind of hoping we'll have something sooner than November but oh well. I am also curious about upcoming games that will really push my 3080. Having DLSS can get me 40-60 FPS at 4K with everything almost maxed on the most demanding games, so I can't see these cards being made obsolete for another 1 or 2 GPU cycles.

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

Rough raster diff % in comparison to the 3090Ti for those interested...

4090

• ~70% faster in RE:Village
• ~50% faster in AC:Valhalla
• ~65% faster in Division 2

4080 16GB

• ~22% faster in RE:Village
• ~22% faster in AC:Valhalla
• ~15% faster in Division 2

4080 12GB

• ~10% slower in RE:Village
• ~5% slower in AC:Valhalla
• ~0% difference in Division 2

 

[Buggy Loop]

Seems the entire internet is sour about Nvidia.
I don't know if AMD will be competitive unless they pull a chiplet miracle like with CPUs.
It's also possible Nvidia and AMD conspire to keep GPU prices high, there are so few players in the market so why not. Huge profit margins look better than market share on a balance sheet, perhaps?

I'm sure this will also make people getting into gaming think twice before going PC. They can buy a PS5 or Xbox SX which will look very similar for a fraction of the cost of a nice PC. Mind you I appreciate high FPS, raytracing and maxing things out, but the diminishing returns set in so quickly you hardly notice the difference sometimes (eg. HIGH vs. ULTRA settings in most games).
A $500 box will just outcompete a $1000-1500 high end PC for most people. Now with rising GPU prices that'll be even more true. At least if one intends the system strictly for gaming.

Very curious to see what AMD does now. I was kind of hoping we'll have something sooner than November but oh well. I am also curious about upcoming games that will really push my 3080. Having DLSS can get me 40-60 FPS at 4K with everything almost maxed on the most demanding games, so I can't see these cards being made obsolete for another 1 or 2 GPU cycles.

Hmmm

So keeping prices high, close to Nvidia, might sacrifice AMD’s potential market share on PC but would prop up their console sales..

 

[Sybrix]

 

[MightySquirrel]

Because NVidia should slice their specs up the same every gen because ... why exactly? Shouldn't a company be allowed to shift their spec/price ratios around in the way that they think best meets the market? The numbers and suffixes of cards changes each gen as does the performance differences and of course price. It's not some standardized system with rules, its a complex marketing strategy.

I don't like the names for the 4080s either because there is way too much performance difference between 4080 and 4080 other than 4GB. They should have named them with a distinction that was more than memory. 4070 and 4080 would have been fine and nobody would have complained about the names, just the prices as would slapping a "Ti" or "super" on the good one. Not everyone is going to understand that there is a difference in every component in the 2 4080s that "justifies" the price difference. As someone who moved from 6 series level cards to 7 then 8 and then 9 I am glad that there is reasonable separation in specs between the good 4080 and the 4090. Last time It was pay more than 2x MSRP for the 3080 for a 3090 to get 10% more performance. Now it is pay 33% more to get 10% to 30% more performance. That is much more compelling if you were thinking of getting the good 4080. I think that will lure a few more people into the top tier and once they are in the top tier, they are there for life.

Looking at the chart above, the claim that the 4090 is 2x to 4x faster than 3090Ti is BS. It is 1.5x better in Ubisoft open world games. Some might argue that these are not games so the stat is OK, but Ubisoft will continue to crank out these types of games and they won't run 2x faster if you upgrade from 3090Ti to 4090.

You serious?.gif

GPU's used to have 1 year cycle, now it's only every two years and Nvidia dared to offer a "4080 variant" [4060 ti] for 900 that gives roughly same performance to 3080 FE and that one was $699 two years ago.

 

[DaGwaphics]

You serious?.gif

GPU's used to have 1 year cycle, now it's only every two years and Nvidia dared to offer a "4080 variant" [4060 ti] for 900 that gives roughly same performance to 3080 FE and that one was $699 two years ago.

This. I was hoping these new cards from Nvidia/AMD would move the performance per dollar up a bit, but that doesn't look to be the case. Just like last time, it looks like they want to give you a bit of performance improvement but move the price up to match. I guess we'll see what AMD does.

 

[OZ9000]

4070 12GB for 900 dollars???

Hahahahaha absolutely not.

Will wait for the 4080Ti 20GB.

I'm sure it'll be available to you for $1300

 

[OZ9000]

Fucking lol
Brilliant.

 

[VolticArchangel]

This is gonna be an even bigger shitshow when AMD price their RDNA3 lineup "$50" less than this trash and call it "jebaited".

 

[OZ9000]

I still kinda want a 4080 but now i'm open to see what amd is gonna do, and i'm even down for a 3090 in the 800-900 euros range.

If dlss 3 also increase input lag maybe it is not the super deal we were expecting.

There is nothing worse than playing a game which controls like treacle tbh. Interestingly DLSS (base) has no or a positive effect on input lag.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

You serious?.gif

GPU's used to have 1 year cycle, now it's only every two years and Nvidia dared to offer a "4080 variant" [4060 ti] for 900 that gives roughly same performance to 3080 FE and that one was $699 two years ago.

? At least going by Nvidia’s numbers it looks like the 12GB will significantly outperform 3090 Ti in a lot of cases.

4000 series honestly doesn’t look bad, just the naming and pricing are fucked up.

They should’ve named the 4080 “4080 Ti” instead and charged $200 less across the board, then it would be a pretty great lineup.

This is gonna be an even bigger shitshow when AMD price their RDNA3 lineup "$50" less than this trash and call it "jebaited".

Yeah…I’d love for AMD to kick Nvidia’s ass in performance/$ but I’m not getting my hopes up. My guess is they’ll price it as high as they can get away with and undercut Nvidia just by a hair. Hope I’m wrong.

 

[MightySquirrel]

? At least going by Nvidia’s numbers it looks like the 12GB will significantly outperform 3090 Ti in a lot of cases.

4000 series honestly doesn’t look bad, just the naming and pricing are fucked up.

They should’ve named the 4080 “4080 Ti” instead and charged $200 less across the board, then it would be a pretty great lineup.

Where did you see that? Nvidias own official reveal slide shows 12GB variant below 3090ti in all 3 games [re village, valhalla and division] that don't use the new DLSS3's frame generation feature.

 

[Black_Stride]

This is gonna be an even bigger shitshow when AMD price their RDNA3 lineup "$50" less than this trash and call it "jebaited".

AMD need to come with nothing over 1000 dollars.
Their 4080 competitor should be 700 - 800 dollars and easily match the RTX4080 16'G

Then we pray Nvidia amends their partner prices.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Where did you see that? Nvidias own official reveal slide shows 12GB variant below 3090ti in all 3 games [re village, valhalla and division] that don't use the new DLSS3's frame generation feature.

Ok fair enough, slightly slower than 3090 Ti in games without DLSS3, much faster in games with it. I’d still (probably) consider 4080 12GB to be a much better gaming value. Looking forward to lots more benchmarks and reviews.

And even if there are “only” 30-something games that support DLSS3, that’s not as big of a caveat as it sounds considering that only a small # of games really need it in order to get fast frame rates at 4K max settings anyway.

Card A is slightly faster in general, card B gets a huge speed boost in games that need it most. Which one would you choose?

 

[GymWolf]

You serious?.gif

GPU's used to have 1 year cycle, now it's only every two years and Nvidia dared to offer a "4080 variant" [4060 ti] for 900 that gives roughly same performance to 3080 FE and that one was $699 two years ago.

Wait, so now the 4070 is not only slower than 3090 but on par with a vanilla 3080? Dafuq?

This seems a bit of a stretch.

 

[Jayjayhd34]

Ok fair enough, slightly slower than 3090 Ti in games without DLSS3, much faster in games with it. I’d still (probably) consider 4080 12GB to be a much better gaming value. Looking forward to lots more benchmarks and reviews.

And even if there are “only” 30-something games that support DLSS3, that’s not as big of a caveat as it sounds considering that only a small # of games really need it in order to get fast frame rates at 4K max settings anyway.

Card A is slightly faster in general, card B gets a huge speed boost in games that need it most. Which one would you choose?

I'm wanting to know what it can do at 8k just think all games now playable in 8k max settings. Might beg my mum for lg 8k signature just to see it action.

 

[winjer]

 

[PhoenixTank]

Card A is slightly faster in general, card B gets a huge speed boost in games that need it most. Which one would you choose?

Card A also has twice the VRAM. Really depends on the quality of those magically generated extra frames doesn't it?

 

[chromhound]

 

[MightySquirrel]

Ok fair enough, slightly slower than 3090 Ti in games without DLSS3, much faster in games with it. I’d still (probably) consider 4080 12GB to be a much better gaming value. Looking forward to lots more benchmarks and reviews.

And even if there are “only” 30-something games that support DLSS3, that’s not as big of a caveat as it sounds considering that only a small # of games really need it in order to get fast frame rates at 4K max settings anyway.

Card A is slightly faster in general, card B gets a huge speed boost in games that need it most. Which one would you choose?

Obv I'd take 4080 even 12 GB variant over 3080 with those new features, but usually you'd expect progress in hardware/price to be made after two years not stay the same.