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[Chaplain]

The stronger it is, the less happy, and frankly intelligent, they seem

You might find this study interesting: Study Examines Link Between Accountability to God and Psychological Well-Being.

"Religious believers who embrace accountability to God (or another transcendent guide for life) experience higher levels of three of the four variables of psychological well-being – mattering to others, dignity and meaning in their lives, though not happiness – according to a study from researchers with Baylor University, Westmont College and Hope College." (3/4/22)

edited

 

[killatopak]

Many religious people like to peddle the idea that these things exist because of religion, yet they exist pretty much in all cultures religious or otherwise.

Culture and religion are largely intertwined and cultures evolve based on the religion they believe in. It may not be modern religion but it is religion nonetheless. It’s very hard to find a culture not affected by any religion throughout the history of mankind. It’s not like Judaism, Christianity or Sunni suddenly appeared out of nowhere and invented religion. There were more primal and ancient things that existed before such as hellinism, totems, and such.

 

[teezzy]

I've rediscovered Catholicism not too long ago. I understand where Atheists come from, and used to consider myself one for well over a decade.

While I still have my doubts, like any human, I'm just grateful to not see the world as cold and empty as I once did. It centers and comforts me.

 

[winjer]

Referring to the themes of the content produced to the consumer. the themes don't match the likely appeal for the market audience.

The market decides what is successful on TV. If a program has low ratings, it gets canceled.

Sorry, apparently it is all in my imagination. the themes are the same as they were a decade ago and also the 90's,80's..

Yes, it's all in your imagination. The fact that you can't provide conclusive proof is a strong indication of that.
And of course, pointing out a handful of atheists serves nothing to prove of your conspiracy.

what was extreme in my comments?

You blaming a group of people, for the evils of the world.
What's next, will you blame the jews, the blacks, the mexicans, etc...

80% of the world I live in agree with me.

No. Most people are not religious extremists.
Most people watch the TV shows you so much oppose.
Once again, most of these shows are made by believers, whether you like them or not.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

I've rediscovered Catholicism not too long ago. I understand where Atheists come from, and used to consider myself one for well over a decade.

While I still have my doubts, like any human, I'm just grateful to not see the world as cold and empty as I once did. It centers and comforts me.

The Bible is one of my favorite "books", it cointains a ridiculous amount of core truths, but I wouldn't consider myself a Christian (the Church is fucked up in several ways). More of a simple Deist.

 

[Thaedolus]

You might find this study interesting: Study Examines Link Between Accountability to God and Psychological Well-Being.



edited

Well, the fact they said “not happiness” seems to jive with my observations. And I’d reiterate I’m talking religiosity, not belief in a higher power. I’m not religious at all, but still try to act as if I’m accountable for my actions when nobody’s watching, whether it’s karma or god or my own conscience, which is as divine (or not) as anything else in nature.

 

[Lunarorbit]

It's probably higher than that. Clicked on several links in the article and I couldn't find anything about the metrics or numbers that reported. When info lik is that isn't presented or found easily it makes me question the source.

I say good though. Religious extremism is on the rise in the US. Wanna know why more and more people are leaving religion? It's cause of psychology damaged people running grifts on the public and using religion as a cover. It's just another business transaction. And when I say this I mean Christians overwhelming are the problem in the US.

 

[Amiga]

Same honestly goes for the Muslims I know too most of them are only culturally Muslim but don't practice it ultra hard I never even notice it except that they don't eat pork.

extent of practice is a different thing. people can believe in God but not practice anything at all.

Many religious people like to peddle the idea that these things exist because of religion, yet they exist pretty much in all cultures religious or otherwise.

All cultures have religion based values. including Hindu/Buddhist. Atheism is a momentary phase that cultures keep rebounding from.

 

[Rran]

I don't see why those numbers are so surprising. I think a lot of us are so used to the demographic that tends to post the most online (18-29 year olds) that it's easy to forget that there are millions of people unrepresented on the internet. What was that Twitter stat, something like only 5% of users make the majority of posts or whatever?

I feel like if I picked a random spot in the US and asked 10 random people whether they believed in God, 8 of them saying yes sounds extremely likely.

As for why so many shows take potshots at religion, it's because a lot of modern comedy tends to want to both appear edgy and stick it to authority. This has been true since the 80s debuted The Simpsons, and even before. But even so, I wouldn't say something like The Simpsons is pushing an atheist viewpoint so much as a satirical one (episodes like Homer the Heretic can have their cake and eat it too in this way).

 

[Kenpachii]

Church / believe works with poor people that need religion to guide them forwards. It's basically a "universal dad" that teaches you how to function and behave. It also works for people that are in a rough spot because of this.

If you got your life somewhat in order and aren't poor and u got stuff going with your own goals, church simple isn't much relevant anymore or useful.

In my country church is basically starting to get extinct, the church here has a pastor that goes to 27 churches because simple not enough people. Corona also culled a lot of old fokes so even less support.

The reason other religions do well is because they still sit in there poor phase. The moment they move forwards like the west there religion will also naturally start to fade.

 

[Kimahri]

extent of practice is a different thing. people can believe in God but not practice anything at all.

All cultures have religion based values. including Hindu/Buddhist. Atheism is a momentary phase that cultures keep rebounding from.

You do know hindus believe in gods, yeah? So why do you lump them in with Buddhism?

And these values don't necessarily have anything do with with religion. People are capable of being sensible without being told what to do by a deity.

People created deities in order to explain the world, and since people created deities, they naturally also created the values.

 

[Kev Kev]

if there is a hell, ill see you there

 

[TheInfamousKira]

I came from a family of ministry, both my mother and father are pastors. Faith and religion for a lot of people is more than stargazing and not accepting personal accountability for real life conditions like so many atheists seem to think. For some, it is putting faith into the unseeable, for some it's a crutch, or an excuse. But for others, it's more about guidelines to be a better human being, or fascination with interpreting the Bible/other religious texts. Neither of my parents are blind fools with no autonomy, my mother is a psychologist.

I think a lot of the deleterious feelings toward Christianity in general come from an oversaturation of it stateside. You've seen the kind; twenty something individualists who latch onto Wiccan or Buddhist beliefs, or something else equally exciting and foreign, because they feel it's more mystical, or aligned to their individuality or autonomy. In truth, most religions are geared toward the same end: coming to terms with mortality and making use of the time you're given on Earth to create and nurture, not dissent and destroy.

Religion has been the source of a lot of the evils in recorded history, but it's often given an unfair rap. Its a subsection of society, and like any other group of people, you will find your assholes, your pedophiles, your murderers, etc. within it. Every gamer isn't an incel who hates women. Every Republican isn't a Nazi. Every Democrat isn't a social justice warrior, etc, etc. People have a very stereotypical view of the modern Christian as a lazy, haphazard, head in the clouds, wouldn't escape a burning building because it's in God's hands type. And some are most definitely like that. But I dunno. Faith is a net positive for a lot of people, and a detriment to others. Same as a shooting range, or alcohol, or gaming, or anything else.

I'm agnostic, myself, for what it's worth. I think there are elements of our universe, and more specifically our planet/solar system that are too perfect to be left to complete coincidence. Any number of things well into the millions could be half a degree off from where they are now, and our entire species and history wouldn't have had the conditions necessary to foster it. To think that we are, in essence, made of the same things that float formlessly, without intellect or instinct through the universe, compiled into something complex is amazing. Star stuff, as Neil Degrasse Tyson says. This weird anomaly of a piece of the universe made with the express intent of understanding itself. It's powerful shit, and I'm not sure that something that wild could be random chance. But by the same token, I think that "God," as an entity or concept could just as well be Cthulu, or an impossibly powerful AI, or a middle eastern dude with holes in his hands. I mean, to consider it is like an ant considering the city it crawls through the dirt in.

I swear I'm not on drugs.

 

[FunkMiller]

I think the key thing here is that there is zero proof to suggest that modern media is in some way dictated to by an anti religious agenda. There is simply no proof of this at all.

The market dictates what proves popular, and what does not. If entertainment is skewing more and more to the non-religious, then it probably provides a more accurate indicator of how religious a society actually is than a single poll.

 

[Thaedolus]

I think the key thing here is that there is zero proof to suggest that modern media is in some way dictated to by an anti religious agenda. There is simply no proof of this at all.

The market dictates what proves popular, and what does not. If entertainment is skewing more and more to the non-religious, then it probably provides a more accurate indicator of how religious a society actually is than a single poll.

This is also a good point. Whatever Hercules' next D-tier straw man argument for god movie isn't going to be popular because those movies suck and there's no appetite for it, and at the end of the day that's all the bean counters need to know to not throw a bunch of money behind those types of movies.

And the whole "80% of people are just like me, I must be right" takeaway from this poll is uhh....not a strong argument in the least. People need to understand bad poll questions vs good ones. This poll is so broad it would be impossible to draw any real conclusions from it.

 

[CrankyJay™]

I don’t think the world is half as miserable as social media and culture make out. Many countries seem pretty okay.

I meant the US. I should have been clearer.

 

[CrankyJay™]

The happiest countries in the world are some of the least religious ones.
I dunno tho, I don't think that necessarily has to do with religion.
I think it's moreso because of the welfare systems and people just not having to worry and stress much in their lives.

I also think that the internet makes people seem more miserable because you're exposed to more of it, but I am fairly sure people are happier today in general than they've ever been.

I think it’s difficult to draw a direct correlation between welfare/religion/happiness. My angle was that there was a greater sense of community “back then” (again, I am focusing solely on the US) because churches largely served as central gathering places for communities. It’s not that religious people are necessarily happier but maybe religions make people feel less isolated. It’s just a guess.

 

[Chaplain]

I think it’s difficult to draw a direct correlation between welfare/religion/happiness. My angle was that there was a greater sense of community “back then” (again, I am focusing solely on the US) because churches largely served as central gathering places for communities. It’s not that religious people are necessarily happier but maybe religions make people feel less isolated. It’s just a guess.

I think religions (some, not all) provide individuals with ultimate meaning and purpose to their existence which the science backs up:

“In the majority of studies, religious involvement is correlated with well-being, happiness and life satisfaction; hope and optimism; purpose and meaning in life; higher self-esteem; better adaptation to bereavement; greater social support and less loneliness; lower rates of depression and faster recovery from depression; lower rates of suicide and fewer positive attitudes towards suicide; less anxiety; less psychosis and fewer psychotic tendencies; lower rates of alcohol and drug use and abuse; less delinquency and criminal activity; greater marital stability and satisfaction … We concluded that for the vast majority of people the apparent benefits of devout belief and practice probably outweigh the risks...The advantageous effect of religious belief and spirituality on mental and physical health is one of the best-kept secrets in psychiatry and medicine generally. If the findings of the huge volume of research on this topic had gone in the opposite direction and it had been found that religion damages your mental health, it would have been front-page news in every newspaper in the land." (Professor Andrew Sims, former President of the Royal College of Psychiatrist, Is Faith Delusion?: Why Religion is Good for Your Health, pp. 100, 221)

"In this paper, I have reviewed and summarized hundreds of quantitative original data-based research reports examining relationships between [religion/spirituality] and health. These reports have been published in peer-reviewed journals in medicine, nursing, social work, rehabilitation, social sciences, counseling, psychology, psychiatry, public health, demography, economics, and religion. The majority of studies report significant relationships between R/S and better health...All health professionals should be familiar with the research base described in this paper, know the reasons for integrating spirituality into patient care, and be able to do so in a sensible and sensitive way. At stake is the health and well-being of our patients and satisfaction that we as health care providers experience in delivering care that addresses the whole person—body, mind, and spirit." (Harold G. Koenig, Duke University psychiatrist)

edited

 

[funkygunther]

I would say if you do not allow certain content that makes you against it. Disney has recently talked about how they are putting an effort into adding more trans content. So they actively seek to add content that advocates their social agendas while denying content that would speak of a creator.

Disney is a pretty big get for atheism, and transism obviously. Good exclusive deals.

 

[It's all in the wrist]

As an atheist and a former Catholic, I don't think a ready-made guide to life is a terrible thing, honestly. The majority of serious traditional Catholic families that I know are thriving and have successful, normal kids.

On principle, it's offensive. Like how can you believe this fairy tale shit. But in practice, I'd rather the tremendous success that I've seen these communities produce. Structure and common belief in a good, moral system give you an advantage. I wouldn't say this without actual examples that I see time and time again: large families with 7 or so kids that are all well educated and well behaved, and a family structure that is cohesive in a way that allows for that growth. Success in every metric, because the plan is there, and the people work together.

 

[Clear]

I'm agnostic, myself, for what it's worth. I think there are elements of our universe, and more specifically our planet/solar system that are too perfect to be left to complete coincidence. Any number of things well into the millions could be half a degree off from where they are now, and our entire species and history wouldn't have had the conditions necessary to foster it. To think that we are, in essence, made of the same things that float formlessly, without intellect or instinct through the universe, compiled into something complex is amazing. Star stuff, as Neil Degrasse Tyson says. This weird anomaly of a piece of the universe made with the express intent of understanding itself. It's powerful shit, and I'm not sure that something that wild could be random chance. But by the same token, I think that "God," as an entity or concept could just as well be Cthulu, or an impossibly powerful AI, or a middle eastern dude with holes in his hands. I mean, to consider it is like an ant considering the city it crawls through the dirt in.

I swear I'm not on drugs.

Agnosticism is in my opinion the only truly rational approach. If death is simply extinction then you have nothing to lose, and if there is something more an infinite amount to gain.

In life, its not what you believe, its how you choose to express those beliefs. Yes plenty of monstrously inhuman acts have been committed over the centuries in the name of religion, but that's because it was the common cultural structure for most of human history. You take it away and replace it with a secular structure, and the same antisocial and pathological impulses will still find expression through that.

 

[FunkMiller]

Agnosticism is in my opinion the only truly rational approach. If death is simply extinction then you have nothing to lose, and if there is something more an infinite amount to gain.

In life, its not what you believe, its how you choose to express those beliefs. Yes plenty of monstrously inhuman acts have been committed over the centuries in the name of religion, but that's because it was the common cultural structure for most of human history. You take it away and replace it with a secular structure, and the same antisocial and pathological impulses will still find expression through that.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Even amongst Democrats its as high as 72%. Thought it would be worse, probably seems worse because the 20% dominate the media. How dose it make financial sense for entertainment producers to constantly troll the majority of it's target audience?

https://www.axios.com/2022/06/17/be...paign=editorial&utm_content=politics-religion

What do you mean... the entertainment industry pushes Baphomet and Moloch

 

[Maiden Voyage]

if there is a hell, ill see you there

We've got the best soundtrack

 

[TheInfamousKira]

What do you mean... the entertainment industry pushes Baphomet and Moloch

Don't do my boy Paimon dirty like that

 

[FunkMiller]

What do you mean... the entertainment industry pushes Baphomet and Moloch

 

[Rentahamster]

I've rediscovered Catholicism not too long ago. I understand where Atheists come from, and used to consider myself one for well over a decade.

While I still have my doubts, like any human, I'm just grateful to not see the world as cold and empty as I once did. It centers and comforts me.

An atheist worldview is not necessarily a cold and empty one. On the contrary, it can be a very deep and fulfilling one. How did you come to that conclusion?

 

[Sub_Level]

As an atheist and a former Catholic, I don't think a ready-made guide to life is a terrible thing, honestly. The majority of serious traditional Catholic families that I know are thriving and have successful, normal kids.

On principle, it's offensive. Like how can you believe this fairy tale shit. But in practice, I'd rather the tremendous success that I've seen these communities produce. Structure and common belief in a good, moral system give you an advantage. I wouldn't say this without actual examples that I see time and time again: large families with 7 or so kids that are all well educated and well behaved, and a family structure that is cohesive in a way that allows for that growth. Success in every metric, because the plan is there, and the people work together.

Yep. Most religious families I know are successful. Our wealthiest clients are often those who donate to their churches and various causes out of religious conviction.

That said I dont think secularism lowers the chance of success or even de-emphasises family. Secularization in the US is still in its infancy, relegated to a small but growing subset of the population. As it gains more traction I imagine we’ll see greater representation of secular folk, both successful and unsuccessful, rather than the limited 20s/30s somethings snapshot we mostly have now.

 

[Rran]

I get the impression that a lot of you feel that atheism should be the default, or that there's no rational reason to believe in God. But regardless of what you choose--unless you opt out of it via agnosticism--you're going to believe something.

There are very large questions about our reality and our universe that science is not capable of answering using the requirements of repeatable, testable, observable, measurable methods. When we deal with immaterial concepts, whether God, or free will, or the mind, or morality, or parallel universes...these are philosophical ideas. And despite pop science being a culturally popular (and often politically-co-opted) field, I feel that philosophy and reason can be as crucial to problem-solving as science and math.

Irrespective of the results religion has on society or happiness, I think to hand-wave away all religions as baseless fairy tales is ignorant and overtly broad. There are valid, logically sound reasons to be a theist just as there are valid, logically sound reasons to be an atheist.

 

[PumpkinPie]

Don't worry, in 2000 years someone will find a dusty old copy of Harry Potter and proclaim "holy shit, motherfuckers had real wizards back then!".

 

[Chaplain]

That said I dont think secularism lowers the chance of success or even de-emphasises family. Secularization in the US is still in its infancy, relegated to a small but growing subset of the population. As it gains more traction I imagine we’ll see greater representation of secular folk, both successful and unsuccessful, rather than the limited 20s/30s somethings snapshot we mostly have now.

The following conversation with the world's leading expert on secularism, Prof. Jacques Berlinerblau, is probably something that you will want to listen to.

Dr. Michael F. Bird (Ridley College) interviews Prof. Jacques Berlinerblau (Georgetown University) about his book Secularism: The Basics.

 

[Doom85]

An atheist worldview is not necessarily a cold and empty one. On the contrary, it can be a very deep and fulfilling one. How did you come to that conclusion?

Hell, the idea of there not being eternal life could motivate people to make more with their physical lives as opposed to those who might think, “even when I die, I’ll just be someplace new.” Obviously there are exceptions but regardless teezzy‘s generalization is definitely off.

 

[Yoda]

Some of you guys must be quite cloistered socially if you think more than half of America are atheist.

 

[Rentahamster]

I get the impression that a lot of you feel that atheism should be the default, or that there's no rational reason to believe in God. But regardless of what you choose--unless you opt out of it via agnosticism--you're going to believe something.

There are very large questions about our reality and our universe that science is not capable of answering using the requirements of repeatable, testable, observable, measurable methods. When we deal with immaterial concepts, whether God, or free will, or the mind, or morality, or parallel universes...these are philosophical ideas. And despite pop science being a culturally popular (and often politically-co-opted) field, I feel that philosophy and reason can be as crucial to problem-solving as science and math.

Irrespective of the results religion has on society or happiness, I think to hand-wave away all religions as baseless fairy tales is ignorant and overtly broad. There are valid, logically sound reasons to be a theist just as there are valid, logically sound reasons to be an atheist.

This is the same faulty line of reasoning that led our ancestors to believe that Thor or Zeus was the cause of lightning because they didn't know how it worked like we do now.

The time to believe something is when there is strong evidence to support that belief. Without any strong evidence, no definitive conclusions can be drawn, and making something up because we don't know what else it could be is not a truth seeking strategy.

 

[IDKFA]

I don't think any religion is true. I don't think god exists. I think it's all a load of bs.

IF ANYTHING, we should believe in Sumerian or egyptian gods.

We should dump all current religions (Islam, Christianity, Judaism) because you think their BS, but then believe in two random polytheistic religions because.............

 

[Batiman]

The Greek pantheon were characters in the Iliad. Removing them was like removing Sauron from LotR.

Sorry I’m not understanding what point your trying to make.

 

[rofif]

We should dump all current religions (Islam, Christianity, Judaism) because you think their BS, but then believe in two random polytheistic religions because.............

It’s irony. It’s all bs but the ancient ones were first..

 

[BossLackey]

I actually thought (hoped) it would be lower.

 

[BigBooper]

How dose it make financial sense for entertainment producers to constantly troll the majority of it's target audience.

I'm surprised they got a result that high even if it's a mistake, but as to this point, I suspect a lot of the people polled would have said something like, "I believe in God and s/he's exactly like I want him/her to be." Not exactly a scholar of other religions, but a lot of American Christians twist God up into matching whatever they're social and political beliefs are, with practically no moral standards.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

Is that necessarily true? People don’t seem to be nearly as religious as 20-30+ years ago and they seem more miserable than ever.

Just from observing the behavior of old millenia religious types their dwindling numbers seem more miserable than ever as their ability to influence the direction of society continues to wane. As Western democracies continue to scientifically educate and support/enforce human rights then these religious types will continue to diminish as their ability to control minds and bodies is reduced by public law and personal critical thinking liberating informed choice.

In day to day spiritual terms more people are becoming aware of things like the celestial cross and pantheism as a means of achieving a connection with Christ Consciousness in their personal spiritual relationship with the universe.

 

[Catphish]

Love me some God.

I struggle with religion, but God is just alright with me.

 

[FunkMiller]

The time to believe something is when there is strong evidence to support that belief. Without any strong evidence, no definitive conclusions can be drawn, and making something up because we don't know what else it could be is not a truth seeking strategy.

The cornerstone of atheism.

I always have to scratch my head when religious folks say atheists ‘believe’ in something the same way they do.

No we don’t. We base our judgements on evidence. There’s no verified, reviewed, or independent evidence to suggest the existence of god (any god) so why would I believe in one?

That’s the absence of belief.

Atheism is a celebration of evidence… about our universe, and our ever increasing understanding of it. Nothing in religion comes close to the joy and awe of knowing you come from stardust, formed in the heart of a supernova.

 

[CrankyJay™]

Just from observing the behavior of old millenia religious types their dwindling numbers seem more miserable than ever as their ability to influence the direction of society continues to wane. As Western democracies continue to scientifically educate and support/enforce human rights then these religious types will continue to diminish as their ability to control minds and bodies is reduced by public law and personal critical thinking liberating informed choice.

In day to day spiritual terms more people are becoming aware of things like the celestial cross and pantheism as a means of achieving a connection with Christ Consciousness in their personal spiritual relationship with the universe.

Everyone’s new god is money is what I’ve decided. We are a rudderless ship.

 

[Rran]

This is the same faulty line of reasoning that led our ancestors to believe that Thor or Zeus was the cause of lightning because they didn't know how it worked like we do now.

The time to believe something is when there is strong evidence to support that belief. Without any strong evidence, no definitive conclusions can be drawn, and making something up because we don't know what else it could be is not a truth seeking strategy.

You're referring to the "God of the gaps" argument, which is indeed faulty--basically the equivalent of saying "We don't know [yet], so it must be something supernatural."

But I don't think belief in a designer is necessarily "making something up." Our universe is self-contradictory, given that matter cannot be created or destroyed. The Kalam principle states that anything that began to exist has to have had a cause, so what can we logically conclude caused the universe (and by extension, the laws of reality) to exist?

It could be another universe/multiverse, but that just pushes the question back a single step further, and we're back to where we started. The cause has to be something not contingent (something that exists within a space-time framework). To exist within space-time is to be bound to those things, so whatever caused the universe(s) must be outside of that, and thus immaterial. It's something that's necessary and cannot depend on something else to exist.

If it created all space, it's immaterial; all time, it's eternal; something from nothing, all-powerful. An immaterial, eternal, all-powerful entity: God.

Anyway, that's the cliff notes version for one argument for theism. You might contest some of these specifics, but the point is that there's a much more logical chain of reasoning and deduction than just saying Zeus made lightning or whatever.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

Everyone’s new god is money is what I’ve decided. We are a rudderless ship.

Prosperity theology.

 

[PSYGN]

Not that hard to believe. It is only human to believe in a higher being, you don't need to look further than all the tribes still out there with their own belief system. For many, believing in God is just a comfort thought - it doesn't mean they have to follow a religion.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I don't believe in God, but I do of Goddesses. I welcome any new believers to follow.

 

[Liamario]

 

[FunkMiller]

You're referring to the "God of the gaps" argument, which is indeed faulty--basically the equivalent of saying "We don't know [yet], so it must be something supernatural."

But I don't think belief in a designer is necessarily "making something up." Our universe is self-contradictory, given that matter cannot be created or destroyed. The Kalam principle states that anything that began to exist has to have had a cause, so what can we logically conclude caused the universe (and by extension, the laws of reality) to exist?

That’s a flawed concept though, in terms of the universe.

 

[Rran]

That’s a flawed concept though, in terms of the universe.

Do you disagree that the universe had a beginning?