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[geordiemp]

wut?
The main difference is the 6800 have 128mb of IC but it have also 4mb of l2 (x60cu) for the entire gpu vs 5mb (x52cu) of the Xsx ...
The xsx have 5mb L2 cache for the whole GPU, level 1 cache for the Shader Array, and the LDS for the dual CU just like every other rdna2 gpu
the arrays of the xsx are 2x12 2x14

Let me help you. here is a picture, half of the whats drawn for 6700, 3/4 for 6800,

or 2 shader engines for 6700 and 3 shader engines for 6800

Ps5 and XSX BOTH have 2 shader engines.

The only Chip that has more than 10 CU per Array in RDNA2 is XSX.....

So XSX GPU has to share more things;....How does that work out ?

So XSX and Ps5 and 6700...

No bigger parameter cache
No bigger L1
No bigger LDS
No bigger command and GE processing

I can throw in a few more if you like ?

 

[MasterCornholio]

But your right in reality most people won't notice any difference at all between these consoles. But just like in f1 at times fractions of a second are the difference between winning and losing, in these comparisons we look for large to minute differences.

Pretty much it. If people want to see a big difference between the PS5 and Xbox they need to look at the XSS. Thats the only system that's far behind the other two.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I don't like to tattle. I should've written a PM to Krisprolls, in hindsight.

Honestly people are not allowed to dodge ban here. I don't see any issues with reporting them for that.

Do you have any issues with reporting them?

 

[Mod of War]

Best thing to do is just point him out to someone like Mod of War if you think hes ban dodging.

I don't think mods see everything here because there's a ton of users on this site. But I'm sure they are doing their best with what they have.

I'm pretty surprised you haven't done this yet.

I know you have to defend him because he's on your team, but I already linked you the receipts. They even have the same writing style. Almost nobody uses a space before using a colon (since it's wrong).

 

[MasterCornholio]

May the investigation commence.

Edit:

Bernd Lauert

See that wasn't so hard now was it?

 

[Topher]

I don't follow you here. But either way CBR has a cost for the system. It costs ressources (memory) and GPU time. From what we could see on a few games CBR might not be the best way to spend your ressources on PS5. Seems to me temporal injection (Spiderman) would be much better. But whatever.

Interesting, so do devs chose to stay with the technique already in place with PS4 Pro to save on dev time?

May the investigation commence.

Its already over.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

to be fair, we're like 4 months into the generation and we know xbox is behind with their tools. I know there's jokes about tools and people say "how long do we have to wait?" - I would say its going to take more than 4 months in a covid world lol. Tools have come up too many times from devs for it not to be true and on top of the tools issue we have Covid. I wouldnt be counting chickens just yet. I just think games are going to swing on some vs the other and its going to be fun to see how it pans out.

I dont agree. We have the dirt 5 devs on record saying the tools were good, praising them, better than normal at this stage I think he said...

"I’ve never worked on a console launch where, while we’re still months away from release, the tools have been this mature, this stable, this easy to work with."

Inside Xbox Series X Optimized: Dirt 5 - Xbox Wire

When it launches this holiday, Xbox Series X will be the most powerful console the world has ever seen. One of the biggest benefits of all that power is giving developers the ability to make games that are Xbox Series X Optimized. This means that they’ve taken full advantage of the unique...

news.xbox.com

Also we have seen the series x gpu when isolated in photomode performing just fine, similar in dmc in some modes and other games too.

So I think tools is a bit of an easy excuse now.

Full quote below....

Transitioning development to a new console platform, like Xbox Series X, is usually very painful. You have to deal with new tools, new workflows, new ways of thinking.

This time around the team at Xbox brought me a new toolset called the Game Development Kit, which they already had up and running on Xbox One.

This meant that we could make the transition much earlier. In fact, we started doing the groundwork for Xbox Series X development long before we even received the hardware. This kind of thinking from Xbox allowed us to get a real head-start on next-gen development, so after receiving our early Xbox Series X hardware, we were up and running really quickly.

For me, the most important thing in making a videogame is the relationships. Working with Xbox, is a partnership – the team at Xbox is committed to helping us make a great videogame and they’ve shown that to me again and again. That means being open and honest about our experiences; what we’ve loved and perhaps even what we’ve found difficult in development has had meaningful, visible impact on the updates that I get for the tools for Series X. (Shout out to our development partner at Xbox, Richard Hackett! Thanks Rich!)

I’ve never worked on a console launch where, while we’re still months away from release, the tools have been this mature, this stable, this easy to work with.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Interesting, so do devs chose to stay with the technique already in place with PS4 Pro to save on dev time?



Its already over.

I saw that. Can't really support anyone ban dodging.

Edit: I'm really into this game so I'm posting this.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

 

[MasterCornholio]

Yes that's dumb. Mods apparently have all the tools to check and ban duplicate accounts anyway.

I had to do this.

Looks like the tools are working.

 

[AV]

Yes that's dumb. Mods apparently have all the tools to check and ban duplicate accounts anyway.

This post didn't age well

 

[DenchDeckard]

I dont agree. We have the dirt 5 devs on record saying the tools were good, praising them, better than normal at this stage I think he said...

"I’ve never worked on a console launch where, while we’re still months away from release, the tools have been this mature, this stable, this easy to work with."

Inside Xbox Series X Optimized: Dirt 5 - Xbox Wire

When it launches this holiday, Xbox Series X will be the most powerful console the world has ever seen. One of the biggest benefits of all that power is giving developers the ability to make games that are Xbox Series X Optimized. This means that they’ve taken full advantage of the unique...

news.xbox.com

Also we have seen the series x gpu when isolated in photomode performing just fine, similar in dmc in some modes and other games too.

So I think tools is a bit of an easy excuse now.

Full quote below....

Yeah, I take that as they had the GDK tools running and it allowed them to port the game but it no way IMO says that the tools are mature or utilising the full power of the new consoles. It just meant they had an environment ready for the devs to port the games. That's how I take it anyway. Everyone is allowed to believe what they want so it's all good.I mean we have evidence of the xbox series X of DIRT 5 launching with low quality models and other strange issues which needed to be patched.

Control dev Remedy have recently just said that the tools are behind Sony's and that was an interview this week. I feel confident that the tools will mature, what that actually means in the way of performance and quality I have no idea.

 

[Kagey K]

Yes that's dumb. Mods apparently have all the tools to check and ban duplicate accounts anyway.

Looks like the tools are working as intended.

 

[BootsLoader]

Yesssss that’s why I came here!!

 

[Epic Sax CEO]

Let me help you. here is a picture, half of the whats drawn for 6700, 3/4 for 6800,

or 2 shader engines for 6700 and 3 shader engines for 6800

Ps5 and XSX BOTH have 2 shader engines.

The only Chip that has more than 10 CU per Array in RDNA2 is XSX.....

So XSX GPU has to share more things;....How does that work out ?

So XSX and Ps5 and 6700...

No bigger parameter cache
No bigger L1
No bigger LDS
No bigger command and GE processing

I can throw in a few more if you like ?

Can you do a little search for me?
I heard somethings about RDNA1 and RDNA2 and for what I understood, when AMD redesigned the CUs for RDNA1 they did the work in a way that the GPU topped at 40CUs. One of the differences in RDNA2 is that they expanded this to 80CU, but in doing so the 40CU RDNA2 GPU had some resources decreased in comparison with the 40CU RDNA1. Supposedly the 6700X have HALF the Primitive hardware compared with the 5700X, what made me think, remember when people were looking at the dieshots and saying that the PS5 GPU was actually more RDNA1 because the way it looked? Than maybe it's a good thing, it's a 40CU RDNA2 without the decreased Primitive hardware.

I'm not with the patience to search in deep about this, but maybe someone may like.

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

About the game itself.....i dont think ive ever attempted anything so incredibly tedious and NOT fun as trying to 100% these levels. How did this game do in sales? If they did well enough for another one they need to seriously simplify the means and amount of things to 100% a stage. It just doesnt work well here.

 

[Jaysen]

About the game itself.....i dont think ive ever attempted anything so incredibly tedious and NOT fun as trying to 100% these levels. How did this game do in sales? If they did well enough for another one they need to seriously simplify the means and amount of things to 100% a stage. It just doesnt work well here.

It apparently has done poorly.

 

[Shelookdlvl18]

These comparisons can be fun but I think we've come to a point where we aren't even comparing games built %100 for next gen hardware and it's causing a lot of crap between the fanbases over such trivial differences be it in Xboxes favour it ps's it's always gonna be "lazy port" this or that amongst things like time/money constraints etc , we should be waiting and comparing only next gen games but I guess waiting for them doesn't sell or give sites clicks , there's so much more to these boxes we need next gen engines to run on next gen hardware only then can we get the real comparisons we've been waiting for with no bullshit .

By far the best post here yet.

I've found myself involved in some warring here as well, but it's not constant. Doesn't take long before I start to feel ashamed of myself for doing it, no matter how right or wrong I may be.

How some of these people constantly engage in this back and forth day after day after day, for literally months on end is beyond me. Their obvious lack of self awareness is staggering. Literal mountains of data and info related to psychology and mental health could be gained from the potential studies that could be done here. The only reason it hasn't, is likely because few people outside of this forum are aware of what goes on here.

Nonetheless, I agree that comparing games that aren't 100% built for current gen is useless at this point, and largely worthless.

 

[Heisenberg007]

By far the best post here yet.

I've found myself involved in some warring here as well, but it's not constant. Doesn't take long before I start to feel ashamed of myself for doing it, no matter how right or wrong I may be.

How some of these people constantly engage in this back and forth day after day after day, for literally months on end is beyond me. Their obvious lack of self awareness is staggering. Literal mountains of data and info related to psychology and mental health could be gained from the potential studies that could be done here. The only reason it hasn't, is likely because few people outside of this forum are aware of what goes on here.

Nonetheless, I agree that comparing games that aren't 100% built for current gen is useless at this point, and largely worthless.

I think it will be just as useless, even after that.

As a dual console owner, my only concern (for lack of a better word) was if there'd be a similar performance gap b/w PS5 and XSX as it was b/w PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. That's not the case, as confirmed by credible gaming journalists like Jason Schrier and the empirical data we've had so far.

Different developers, different games, and different engines will favor either PS5 or XSX in their games. The pendulum will keep on shifting, but at the end of the generation, on average, both groups will be happy with the net "wins" they get. That's good enough for me.

 

[geordiemp]

Can you do a little search for me?
I heard somethings about RDNA1 and RDNA2 and for what I understood, when AMD redesigned the CUs for RDNA1 they did the work in a way that the GPU topped at 40CUs. One of the differences in RDNA2 is that they expanded this to 80CU, but in doing so the 40CU RDNA2 GPU had some resources decreased in comparison with the 40CU RDNA1. Supposedly the 6700X have HALF the Primitive hardware compared with the 5700X, what made me think, remember when people were looking at the dieshots and saying that the PS5 GPU was actually more RDNA1 because the way it looked? Than maybe it's a good thing, it's a 40CU RDNA2 without the decreased Primitive hardware.

I'm not with the patience to search in deep about this, but maybe someone may like.

I am too busy as well, but there was only 1 chip on RDNA1 that was 4 shader arrays design and limited to 1.9 Ghz or so and did not have the fine grain frequency control or other design things that would allow 2.3 and 2.4 Ghz and beyond.

Both Ps5 and XSX are 4 shader arrays.

XSX is not that much bigger die than ps5 something like 10-15 % cant recall as it added CU but kept 4 shader arrays, your thinking of size as number of CU but not number of Shader engine / shader arrays.

Also remember both Ps5 and XSX need to be Backwards compatible modes. There is not much different in both ps5 and XSX hadrware to be a 5700 in disguise, but 5700 is no slouch.

 

[MonarchJT]

I am too busy as well, but there was only 1 chip on RDNA1 that was 4 shader arrays design and limited to 1.9 Ghz or so and did not have the fine grain frequency control or other design things that would allow 2.3 and 2.4 Ghz and beyond.

Both Ps5 and XSX are 4 shader arrays.

XSX is not that much bigger die than ps5 something like 10-15 % cant recall as it added CU but kept 4 shader arrays, your thinking of size as number of CU but not number of Shader engine / shader arrays.

Also remember both Ps5 and XSX need to be Backwards compatible modes. There is not much different in both ps5 and XSX hadrware to be a 5700 in disguise, but 5700 is no slouch.

ps5 and xsx are different gpu's in multiple way stop with the fud
I don't understand how after what has been seen and checked definitively by the dieshot is still allowed

 

[michaelius]

Dunno why people watch and give attention to videos like that. It is useless. The console are pretty the same in every game. Pointless.

That's the thing - on paper they shouldn't be

 

[Physiognomonics]

That's the thing - on paper they shouldn't be

Some have theorized that on paper they should actually be on-par, and that was before the first benchmarks.

Interesting, so do devs chose to stay with the technique already in place with PS4 Pro to save on dev time?

I'd say yes. Because changing CBR DRS by native DRS would have meant more dev time and QA.

 

[DenchDeckard]

That's the thing - on paper they shouldn't be

Exactly, on paper the xbox has 2tf more but slower clocks which lots of people said would bring them neck and neck. Also on paper, the ps5 ssd is twice as fast as the xbox and we were told for months would be so much faster than the xbox and create experiences you can't see on the xbox at all. Yet here we are the games are most or less identical, ps5 has had better frameratea on some games and xbox has loaded games faster.

The talk of ssd has completely been dropped and there are back and forth over 400% zoomed in images of a floor texture and a 1-3 fps frame difference. Really we should all be applauding that they are so close and the two main boxes cost the same. So it is purely about games, exclusives and value adds such as gamepass. Hopefully it will turn into the best gen ever.

I can't wait to get my psvr 2 and I also am looking forward to seeing how Ms steps it up on the exclusives front.

 

[Lysandros]

That's the thing - on paper they shouldn't be

Which paper is that? The consoles' performance is well inline with their specifications.

 

[skit_data]

Exactly, on paper the xbox has 2tf more but slower clocks which lots of people said would bring them neck and neck. Also on paper, the ps5 ssd is twice as fast as the xbox and we were told for months would be so much faster than the xbox and create experiences you can't see on the xbox at all. Yet here we are the games are most or less identical, ps5 has had better frameratea on some games and xbox has loaded games faster.

The talk of ssd has completely been dropped and there are back and forth over 400% zoomed in images of a floor texture and a 1-3 fps frame difference. Really we should all be applauding that they are so close and the two main boxes cost the same. So it is purely about games, exclusives and value adds such as gamepass. Hopefully it will turn into the best gen ever.

I can't wait to get my psvr 2 and I also am looking forward to seeing how Ms steps it up on the exclusives front.

Id say the difference in install size seen in Control is the single biggest differentiating factor between the two so far, but that seemed to drop off quite fast compared to 10 fps more in photo mode being in Series X favour.

 

[jroc74]

ps5 and xsx are different gpu's in multiple way stop with the fud
I don't understand how after what has been seen and checked definitively by the dieshot is still allowed

What specifically do you disagree with in that post? Curious to hear what you think or how you would explain it.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Id say the difference in install size seen in Control is the single biggest differentiating factor between the two so far, but that seemed to drop off quite fast compared to 10 fps more in photo mode being in Series X favour.

Point! Also, many people said that it was just a one-time thing. I started that thread, and I said it could become a trend.

Now we have file size differences in at least 3 games: Control (~42%), Crash (~10%), Avengers (~40%).

 

[Lysandros]

Id say the difference in install size seen in Control is the single biggest differentiating factor between the two so far, but that seemed to drop off quite fast compared to 10 fps more in photo mode being in Series X favour.

Interestingly in the most graphically intensive scene ('corridor of death') in that mode the difference was a mere 1 FPS.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Id say the difference in install size seen in Control is the single biggest differentiating factor between the two so far, but that seemed to drop off quite fast compared to 10 fps more in photo mode being in Series X favour.

Yeah the compression thing is a pretty big deal, I'm sure we will hear more once the m.2 drive bay gets updated. The compression is only helping a smaller drive be on par with the larger drive in the xbox at the minute but once you can add an extra TB or two then I expect it to come up in more discussions.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Yeah the compression thing is a pretty big deal, I'm sure we will hear more once the m.2 drive bay gets updated. The compression is only helping a smaller drive be on par with the larger drive in the xbox at the minute but once you can add an extra TB or two then I expect it to come up in more discussions.

Storage really shouldn't be a big deal anyway. If you have more than 10 games installed on your console at any given time, you're doing it wrong imo.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Storage really shouldn't be a big deal anyway. If you have more than 10 games installed on your console at any given time, you're doing it wrong imo.

I have loads installed on my series x. I have a 4tb external for xbox games and the internal for series. I want the expansion card. I think gamepass would make someone like myself have more than ten games.

Sony deserve some props for the compression, but they are starting with a smaller drive so it's negligible right now. It would be even worse if they didn't have the better compression. Seems like kraken is no joke. I hope MS see some improvements in file sizes once the true next gen games appear and last gen is dropped.

 

[skit_data]

Yeah the compression thing is a pretty big deal, I'm sure we will hear more once the m.2 drive bay gets updated. The compression is only helping a smaller drive be on par with the larger drive in the xbox at the minute but once you can add an extra TB or two then I expect it to come up in more discussions.

Storage really shouldn't be a big deal anyway. If you have more than 10 games installed on your console at any given time, you're doing it wrong imo.

The decompression will be the key to the speed when files get bigger. Effectively unpacking compressed files at the same speed as uncompressed ones will have benefits beyond just saving storage space.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Interestingly in the most graphically intensive scene ('corridor of death') in that mode the difference was a mere 1 FPS.

How did DF try to damage control this?

 

[Bernd Lauert]

The decompression will be the key to the speed when files get bigger. Effectively unpacking compressed files at the same speed as uncompressed ones will have benefits beyond just saving storage space.

3rd party games won't be limited by decompression speeds. The lowest common denominator will be used (in this case, a shitty SATA SSD on PC).

 

[Lysandros]

How did DF try to damage control this?

Like usual i guess? I am not sure that they have to 'try' at this point, it's like their second nature.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Some have theorized that on paper they should actually be on-par, and that was before the first benchmarks.

I remember that. That was basically the ones that were not laser focused on Teraflops and looked at other parts of the hardware. Basically trying to determine the advantages that each system has compared to the other. Like the cache per CU calculation for example.

 

[MasterCornholio]

The talk of ssd has completely been dropped

Not exactly. There's still plenty of talk about the streaming capabilities. I mean sure we have seen the load times measured but can we really say the same about the streaming capabilities?

I think that once games start to rely on them that's when we are going to see if there are any differences.

 

[MonarchJT]

How did DF try to damage control this?

you with lysandro won my report..stop with this fanboys attack to the work of DF

 

[Physiognomonics]

you with lysandro won my report..stop with this fanboys attack to the work of DF

You are right. That was a uncalled for as I checked and they actually didn't damage control this.

 

[Heisenberg007]

3rd party games won't be limited by decompression speeds. The lowest common denominator will be used (in this case, a shitty SATA SSD on PC).

Control is a third-party game. That decompression advantage translated into a smaller file size. So is the case with Avengers and Crash now.

For fidelity and texture streaming, you are right. However, when UE5 drops with its virtualized geometry that scales up and down with I/O capabilities, I think this might change then.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Not exactly. There's still plenty of talk about the streaming capabilities. I mean sure we have seen the load times measured but can we really say the same about the streaming capabilities?

I think that once games start to rely on them that's when we are going to see if there are any differences.

Yeah, exactly it's not dropped at all. We already have multiple examples that prove the importance of super-fast SSD and I/O.

• Demon's Souls sent 4 Gb/s data to achieve and maintain high graphical fidelity and high-quality textures.
• We have seen how fast big open-world games can load on PS5, e.g., Demon's Souls, Spider-Man, Nioh 2, FF7 Remake Intergrade.

As far as loading speed comparisons go, we know there won't be any difference until devs abandon the old method of writing code (because old gen didn't have any HW decompressor units). Control dev even said that they didn't anything AT ALL to increase the loading speed of the game. Whatever improvements we saw were the machines brute-forcing it.

 

[MonarchJT]

Not exactly. There's still plenty of talk about the streaming capabilities. I mean sure we have seen the load times measured but can we really say the same about the streaming capabilities?

I think that once games start to rely on them that's when we are going to see if there are any differences.

and this is what everyone with a right mind know .... goes for the xsx gpu and for the ps5 i/o

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I am too busy as well, but there was only 1 chip on RDNA1 that was 4 shader arrays design and limited to 1.9 Ghz or so and did not have the fine grain frequency control or other design things that would allow 2.3 and 2.4 Ghz and beyond.

Both Ps5 and XSX are 4 shader arrays.

XSX is not that much bigger die than ps5 something like 10-15 % cant recall as it added CU but kept 4 shader arrays, your thinking of size as number of CU but not number of Shader engine / shader arrays.

Also remember both Ps5 and XSX need to be Backwards compatible modes. There is not much different in both ps5 and XSX hadrware to be a 5700 in disguise, but 5700 is no slouch.

Just wanna say I enjoy seeing your around, mate!

 

[Inviusx]

In before page 20.

 

[MonarchJT]

What specifically do you disagree with in that post? Curious to hear what you think or how you would explain it.

go to read Locuza ..leviathan and Stanard on twitter.
Or the dieshot thread

 

[jroc74]

go to read Locuza ..leviathan and Stanard on twitter.
Or the dieshot thread

Funny, because I was gonna suggest you do the same.

Maybe you need to see Locuza's latest post about the die shots that breaks down the clip on the ram and PCIe setup. Start from here and read the rest of the thread.

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

I have no ideia what Roblox is or even existed. You should get a kid. Mine is seven and I can say Roblox is massive. He plays a lot when he is allowed to.

www.neogaf.com

And....to be brutally honest....I dont really take anyone with a vested interest in MS, Xbox too seriously. Post history usually confirms this. So thanks but no thanks to Stanard.

 

[MasterCornholio]

and this is what everyone with a right mind know .... goes for the xsx gpu and for the ps5 i/o

Same goes for the PS5s GPU and the XSXs I/O.

 

[MonarchJT]

Funny, because I was gonna suggest you do the same.

Maybe you need to see Locuza's latest post about the die shots that breaks down the clip on the ram and PCIe setup. Start from here and read the rest of the thread.

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

I have no ideia what Roblox is or even existed. You should get a kid. Mine is seven and I can say Roblox is massive. He plays a lot when he is allowed to.

www.neogaf.com

And....to be brutally honest....I dont really take anyone with a vested interest in MS, Xbox too seriously.
Post history usually confirms this. So thanks but no thanks to Stanard.

about the ps5 dieshot not the xsx and what it resamble before Locuza was bit covertly attacked by the usual fanboys

If you followed the thread you will have read the exchange of messages between me and him about it.
Is ok, don't worry people don't take seriously people attached so strictly to playstation too.

 

[MonarchJT]

Same goes for the PS5s GPU and the XSXs I/O.

absolutely yes