Shmunter
Member
Game is bogged down by a last gen asset pipeline, no doubt about it.
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DF: Control on PS5 Tech Review
- Thread starter AnotherOne
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Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
Nothing except random FPS drops on the XSX which are likely exacerbated further in the scenes which the PS5 struggles with.
Tools, I guess.
Kenpachii
Member
This is weird right? Like there is not a cheaper way to fake some kind of reflection in the windows in performance mode..
heck gears 5 new dlc had tons of it
like they gimped non RT gfx to make RT look better
They did it was the main thing i bashed the game on original release. It's butt ugly without raytracing on purpose to become a marketing tool for nvidia.
U saw this a lot at the time. the normal version got downgraded in order to make the raytracing version shine because if you put a good normal render against a raytracing one its really hard to notice the difference.
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Leyasu
Banned
Tools... There are plenty for sale on Amazon.
More like they got to where they could within the time allotted. The DF vid had drops on the PS5 also. A bit longer would have no doubt seen them removed on both systems.
As I said earlier, this is a smash and grab port. Nothing more
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Shmunter
Member
Yeah, stick a cube map on it, done.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
Glad i’m not the only one thinking this is a bit weird
Rikkori
Member
Keep in mind this was with RT on, so it's vs 30 fps on PS5. But yeah, it's not too bad of a showing for the PS5 except I could max texture stuff and not affect the fps on PC.
kyliethicc
Member
Oh thats with RT? You didn't say that before lol. That changes it a lot lol, 2x the FPS in RT.
I mean, PS5 is still fine for the money, but still.
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
Not disagreeing with you.
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
Played a little bit. There is definitely control response time issues on quality mode on PS5. It feels noticeably sluggish.
Also the gun play is very unsatisfying and lacking impact. Adaptive trigger support is appreciated though.
Also the gun play is very unsatisfying and lacking impact. Adaptive trigger support is appreciated though.
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Superayate
Member
Yeah, horrible also on Series X !
Leyasu
Banned
If confirmed, then I will ask for a refund
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
It’s just and ray tra
We’re just seeing the costs of amd first merry go round with rtx show it’s ugly rear end.
Likely we’ll have to wait for the mid gen refreshes to see raster performance not getting buttfucked by rtx being cranked up.
A2una1
Member
Well it is measureably faster, even only by a little margin. And consider again the PC NVME SSD in Use is not that cheap either.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
Doesn’t even have HDR...
Bulletbrain
Member
If the PS5 SSD is not utilised at its fullest due to certain design limitations, don't you think the same limitations are present for a fast PC nvme drive as well? Or do you believe a normal PC nvme drive or the xsx SSD is being used to their max capacity, but only the ps5 SSD has more headroom?
Leyasu
Banned
I just came to ask this question.
First thing I noticed when I booted the game was the fact that my tv never registered it as HDR.
kuncol02
Banned
You are joking right?
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Lol??? If it can´t run better, how the hell "PS4 is even better than a PC. This argument is invalid."???
kyliethicc
Member
It would depend on what the min spec of the game was when built.
If the game is PS5 only, and the PS5 SSD & I/O is the min spec for dev, the it can be used fully. Thats why the PS5 version of Spider-Man Miles loads in like 2 seconds. It was built for that explicit purpose and for that system. They made it work on PS4 too, but it really is essentially 2 different versions of the game. Sony would have wanted Insomniac to get the most out of the PS5 SSD to show off the system, cuz launch title. Same with Demon's Souls, Astro's Playroom, Ratchet, etc.
If the game has to be playable on a 5400 rpm hard drive, then thats its min spec and chances are that in most games no SSD (NVMe or SATA) is being fully utilized. Unless in the case of a game like Miles Morales where Sony literally chose to spend the dev time to make it work best on both.
And so if the game is being built for just XSX/S and PS5, it still has to be built with the slower Xbox SSD & I/O as min spec. And so its highly unlikely in that scenario that a 3rd party multiplat dev would fully use the extra speed of the faster PS5 SSD I/O.
A 3rd party multiplat dev team like Remedy who seem to focus 1st on PC and then consoles, and don't have huge budgets or staff, probably did not want to spend a ton of time optimizing load times on every possible spec SKU to make loading as quick as possible. Just my guess.
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Read my first post please. And then read it again cause it's clear you didn't understand it.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
I not only read. I quoted twice. but your tag tells everything.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Bulletbrain
Member
Generally agree with the rest of your reply, but I want to touch on this part. If, hyperthetically, MM was ported over to XSX/PC with not much rework of the I/O system, do you think the XSX or a PC with a fast nvme SSD can come close to PS5 load times? Say sub 5 seconds?
Night.Ninja
Banned
Huge disspointment for me.wait i didn't even check this..
no HDR?
Playing both versions on XSX I'm not wowed by the upgrade but I am grateful.
I dont think it was worth waiting for.
kyliethicc
Member
I'm sure it could be pretty fast on XSX just not quite as fast. Idk exactly what the difference in times would be. Kinda hard to know.
MDSLKTR
Member
No auto hdr either??
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Playing with slow ass controller? You at least disabled aim assists? xp
Bulletbrain
Member
Yes it would be quite hard to know. But I agree with you in believing that XSX (or a fast PC nvme drive) would perform well in this scenario, and get within a few seconds of the Ps5 load times. That's the conclusion really: optimised for fast SSDs or not, the relative difference between the PS5 and Xsx/fast PC ssd seems to be a matter of seconds.
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phil_t98
#SonyToo
if you read its not same as last gen this is a different version according to the developer
kyliethicc
Member
Sure for load times. But even a small difference in the speed of a system's I/O data streaming could make a game designer have to abandon an entire idea or redesign an entire level, etc.
OK ciao
Shmunter
Member
They lie
Bulletbrain
Member
When loading times down from 30+ seconds all the way down to 6, can we really say it's bogged down in any way?
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Would like to see what would that idea looked like....
papersleeves
Member
Just for this video for comparison's sake. Otherwise it's kb/m combo all the way
Thirty7ven
Banned
For standard loadings the difference between PS5 and XSX won’t matter much at all, it’s as you say, a second here and there. Who cares.
It’s when we get down to the milliseconds that the difference starts to matter. Latency is a bitch and when you’re traveling at the speed of light a second is an eternity. For PS5 exclusives, it will afford developers freedom to push the boundaries of streaming tech further. And streaming really is the future...
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kyliethicc
Member
Just imagine wanting to have a bunch of extra animations or textures or characters in a scene... but you can't load it all into RAM at once because some of the RAM needs to be used for assets that won't be rendered on screen for another 2-4 seconds if the player walks around the corner... but the I/O system can't load those assets into RAM fast enough from the drive, so it has to be sitting in RAM already just in case. This then limits how much RAM the designer can use in this given scene, and they inevitably have to cut back on various ideas they could only implement with more RAM or faster I/O.
Like if the player is inside a room. If the I/O could fully fill or empty RAM in 1 second, then all of RAM can be used for just assets inside that room. But by the time the player can sprint outside, if the I/O can't load in the assets into RAM needed for the space outside the room, then even when the player is inside, some of RAM has to be reserved for those potentially needed assets not currently being used in that room. Less RAM for any given space limits what the designer can do in that scene.
A simple example is the speed of Spider-man swinging through NYC. The speed of the PS4 I/O directly limited how quickly Spidey can swing. Thats why we can't upgrade how fast he can move in the game. We can do more damage, but the designer couldn't let us make Spidey move faster via the skill tree because the HDD of the PS4 was a bottleneck.
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Bulletbrain
Member
Yeah exactly. We have to keep in mind the render budget as well. Can't consider the I/O budget in on itself. Realistically, would there be a case where the assets on screen are so complex where the bottleneck becomes the I/O before the cost of rendering them out?
Night.Ninja
Banned
Nope
Thirty7ven
Banned
You’re missing the whole point. If data like geometry is being streamed, textures, audio, animations... not only can complexity be pushed to the maximum the system can output in a frame, the variety can be pushed just as far.
Animation is still so underrated, it’s crazy. Devs are constantly forced to cut on the animation budget allocation, but if you can access data so fast....
If you want to understand why the I/O was at the heart of PS5 engineering, you have to look at the games Sony’s first party made last gen and see which obstacles they are trying to erase and why something like RT wasn’t the priority instead.
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Shmunter
Member
Yes, should be faster. The fact PS5 is so close to XsX and XsX is so close to pc nvme says it all.When loading times down from 30+ seconds all the way down to 6, can we really say it's bogged down in any way?
They have rejiggered parts, but not all.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Main bound of what it can be on the screen (after moving to SSD) is GPU and memory RAM/VRAM subsystem. The thing is most people overlook, is that pute data bandwidth is not enough, you have to schedule your task in a way which supports peak efficiency. Let's say that consoles still does not have AFx16, which is standard on PCs for a 20 and no it's not some special procedure, it's a toggle in OpenGL ES (mobile), DirectX as well as Vulkan. So it's not shared it's not some crazy algorythm, it's toggle for ROPs. I know the PR is wonderful thing, but simple real world scenarios does not really proved to be properly utilised it, not that ti does not work, but that you have a lor of other contraints, mainly.....drumroll....people. Optimalisation is not easy thing to do and before they do some super advance profiler, which is going to be powered by neural network and which structure everything in a way which going to alow for all these crazy numbers to be utilised. But than againt, that's againts the the manufactuers need, you can see how much you paying for 20-30% extra power.
And again something from my experience, sound and animations are biggest offender to memory. You can put textures relatively easily to a surface. But damn it's hard to get a standard sounds without effect, slap it with some effect, position it in the world and made it sounds real. Obviously shaders are expensive, but that's the thing of compute. But than again compute needs fast memory, bandwidth, not SSD bandwidth but RAM type one. Presumably you have it with GDDR6 memories, good right? No not really because GDDR6 (not X) have pretty bad latency, so you have to schedule all the operations, because if you fire up the operation, it's impossible to start another one. GDDR6X mitigate it to certain degree, however they are power hungry and expensive so far. Still nobody runs whole system on just GPU.
Bulletbrain
Member
Animations are indeed a much overlooked aspect! And I understand your point about having access to a variety of animations that can be loaded in an instance. My doubt is the fact that these animations still have to be rendered out. Complex animations need complex models "perform" them. See in hitman, the LOD setting actually reduces the animation update rate of far away NPC's, not due to I/O constraints, but to save on rendering budget. When we are already close to maxing out the render budget (like in control) there is not much more a SSD with all its benefits in terms of access and availability of assets can do.
But let's see, maybe some Dev will surprise us, who knows?
HAL-01
Member
It’s as if the reflections are being constructed over multiple frames. They also leave some strange trails similar to the temporal artifacts over most of the gameThey didnt mention the delay in the reflections. Its like the reflection has to catch up to the character. Theyve done a good job though. Im happy with it. I like that shadows reflect too:
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