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[DarkMage619]

In the initial post, Microsoft said nothing about the retail $59.99 option. It’s perfectly rational and reasonable to assume they were planning to phrase it out, otherwise no one would have paid $59.99 for 6 months. And if no one would pay $59.99 for 6 months, why do this stunt in the first place, which was the equivalent of blowing their own foot off with a 12 gauge?

Only in the turnaround post have MS confirmed the $59.99 12 month option is remaining at retail.

You can assume that the 12 month would have remained, neither of us can prove it either way. I just think logically, non of this makes sense unless they were scrapping it.

Much love mate

I'm with you. The big thing to realize is that finally there is free online f2p games on the Xbox and that is beyond where they were even 2 days ago. It was crappy road to travel but we ended up in a better place. They need to think alot more before making moves like this.

 

[JunkerWoland]

I think a simple survey utilizing twitter and the press would have been enough for them gauge public sentiment (and for something like this it wouldn't have taken much.) Announcing something and then walking it back makes them look worse. They should have put in the time to do some research and acted accordingly which could have allowed them to raise the price and work on the value offering. This just seems the wrong way to do it.

An actual announcement is going to generate more data and authentic response than a social media survey, while reversing the decision still leaves them the good guy. If Microsoft truly intended to double the price of Gold, its hard to imagine them trashing the decision, before even allowing it to test the market to some degree. As far as I'm concerned, this was mostly--if not entirely--a stunt. We'll probably never know for certain, but maybe a current exec will comment on things, somewhere down the road.

 

[THE DUCK]

I'm seriously confused as to why people keep saying gamepass can't work, if they end up at even a lower price of $10 per month, with 40 million subscribers thats 8.5 billion per year.
That would easily be a large success with room to grow. This is one of the reasons they were willing to buy zenimax.

Considering they have 90 million gold subscribers, this isnt a crazy goal.
I'm convinced this whole thing today was related to that shift that they are aiming for.

 

[megreotsugua]

Interesting, the fast turnaround still implies the end goal wasn't really to raise gold, but to position gamepass. When they saw it failed badly, they retreated.

Gamepass is losing money with all that $1 promo so they have to make this drastic move. But it failed miserably. I guess gamepass will continue to be a money pit. I don't really see how gamepass will be a success for MS considering its very limited potential audience.

MS will do anything to give gamepass that boost it's not getting. Too bad it backfired and they have to retract after having goodwill tarnished again for good.

 

[THE DUCK]

Gamepass is losing money with all that $1 promo so they have to make this drastic move. But it failed miserably. I guess gamepass will continue to be a money pit. I don't really see how gamepass will be a success for MS considering its very limited potential audience.

MS will do anything to give gamepass that boost it's not getting. Too bad it backfired and they have to retract after having goodwill tarnished again for good.

Pure conjecture on your part, gamepass is not failing. There is zero indication anywhere that what you are indicating is correct, in fact the opposite. Its potential audience is huge, not limited at all.

 

[Black_Stride]

Gamepass is losing money with all that $1 promo so they have to make this drastic move. But it failed miserably. I guess gamepass will continue to be a money pit. I don't really see how gamepass will be a success for MS considering its very limited potential audience.

MS will do anything to give gamepass that boost it's not getting. Too bad it backfired and they have to retract after having goodwill tarnished again for good.

This post aged well.

And its only 30 minutes old.
Well done friend.

No Changes to Xbox Live Gold Pricing, Free-to-Play Games to be Unlocked [Update]

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2021/01/22/update-on-xbox-live-gold-pricing/ "We messed up today and you were right to let us know. Connecting and playing with friends is a vital part of gaming and we failed to meet the expectations of players who count on it every day. As a result, we have decided...

www.neogaf.com

 

[Astorian]

I'm seriously confused as to why people keep saying gamepass can't work, if they end up at even a lower price of $10 per month, with 40 million subscribers thats 8.5 billion per year.
That would easily be a large success with room to grow. This is one of the reasons they were willing to buy zenimax.

Considering they have 90 million gold subscribers, this isnt a crazy goal.
I'm convinced this whole thing today was related to that shift that they are aiming for.

No one has 90 million Gold subscribers.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Thank you MS.
This is 4 the gamers.

 

[megreotsugua]

This post aged well.

And its only 30 minutes old.
Well done friend.

No Changes to Xbox Live Gold Pricing, Free-to-Play Games to be Unlocked [Update]

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2021/01/22/update-on-xbox-live-gold-pricing/ "We messed up today and you were right to let us know. Connecting and playing with friends is a vital part of gaming and we failed to meet the expectations of players who count on it every day. As a result, we have decided...

www.neogaf.com

eh?

I see you have a problem with reading comprehension. I posted it after Phil already made an apology and retracted what has already been decided. It's there I said they retracted it.

That does not change my opinion on the limited potential target audience of gamepass.

 

[Memorabilia]

This post aged well.

And its only 30 minutes old.
Well done friend.

No Changes to Xbox Live Gold Pricing, Free-to-Play Games to be Unlocked [Update]

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2021/01/22/update-on-xbox-live-gold-pricing/ "We messed up today and you were right to let us know. Connecting and playing with friends is a vital part of gaming and we failed to meet the expectations of players who count on it every day. As a result, we have decided...

www.neogaf.com

The clueless fanboys on both sides of any divide are gonna do the clueless fanboy thing.

As it turns out, from a consumer standpoint we ended up in a better place than we started. Doubly so if we consider the highly likley scenario that if Xbox stuck to their guns on this it would all but guarantee Sony would follow suit with a price hike of their own. Has the industry ever seen a 180 happen this fast? I'm thinking no. Score one for the good guys.

That said, I'd like to know just how in the fuck a dumb ass decision like this made it out of even one low level meeting, let alone actually becoming paradigm shifting company policy overnight? Did no one in a place of influence have the common sense & basic analytical skills required to predict the backlash & understand the competitive disadvantage they would've created for themselves? We're not talking brain surgery. This is "sun rises in the east, sets in the west" territory.

I was beginning to think Phil wanted out and this was his self immolation move. Imagine out-cluster-fucking Don Mattrick. After all the goodwill they've clawed back this is just mind-boggling and strongly indicates to me there is a major internal communication and power structure divide which needs to be resolved pronto. That God damn statement justifying the price hike was the coup de grace, coming off like some out of touch Wall Street/focus group/attorney cocksuckers wrote it. "Give us more money because fuck you."

The fact that they reversed course at the speed of light means someone with at least a couple active brain cells ultimately prevailed. But it's baffling how this happened in the first place. Maybe my first gut instinct - that this was essentially them floating a "test balloon" to see what kinds of fuckery they could get away with - was correct...

 

[Black_Stride]

eh?

I see you have a problem with reading comprehension. I posted it after Phil already made an apology and retracted what has already been decided. It's there I said they retracted it.

That does not change my opinion on the limited potential target audience of gamepass.

Gamepass losing?

They doubled their engagement year on year.
And have over 15 million subs now.

Once they release the new figure after Cloud was fully released they should easily be touching 20 million subs.
Gamepass has been a resounding success.

 

[megreotsugua]

Its potential audience is huge, not limited at all.

Sure you can tell yourself that to sleep. Let me just remind of how many Microsoft products and venture both hardware and software have already failed. A calculated risk is still a risk, and MS is not new to failures.

This is what I have in mind as potential recurring subscribers**:

1. MS hardcore fan who would support MS no matter what.
2. Trophy hunters.
3. High schoolers who play a lot of games every month - who is not into Fortnite (or other F2P), Fifa, CoD and the likes.
4. Those who have a lot of money that they don't care they waste $15 a month even though they're playing GTA6 (or the latest 3rd party AAA games) almost everytime he turns on his console.

It's so different how we consume games from movies or shows. A gamer can play a game for months and months if he is so engrossed in such a game. This is certainly the case with many FIFA/COD/Fortnite players. Each and every game that is not included in the gamepass service is a gamepass competition. (just a copy paste of my old post)


**as opposed to those who will subscribe for a month to play a game then unsubscribe

 

[megreotsugua]

Gamepass losing?

They doubled their engagement year on year.
And have over 15 million subs now.

Once they release the new figure after Cloud was fully released they should easily be touching 20 million subs.
Gamepass has been a resounding success.

Making a decision as drastic and as desperate as charging $120 a year of Xbox Live (twice the price!) tells me something is amiss with gamepass business revenue model.

 

[Memorabilia]

Sure you can tell yourself that to sleep. Let me just remind of how many products and venture both hardware and software have already failed. A calculated risk is still a risk, and MS is not new to failures.

This is what I have in mind as potential recurring subscribers**:

1. MS hardcore fan who would support MS no matter what.
2. Trophy hunters.
3. High schoolers who play a lot of games every month - who is not into Fortnite (or other F2P), Fifa, CoD and the likes.
4. Those who have a lot of money that they don't care they waste $15 a month even though they're playing GTA6 (or the latest 3rd party AAA games) almost everytime he turns on his console.

It's so different how we consume games from movies or shows. A gamer can play a game for months and months if he is so engrossed in such a game. This is certainly the case with many FIFA/COD/Fortnite players. Each and every game that is not included in the gamepass service is a gamepass competition. (just a copy paste of my old post)


**as opposed to those who will subscribe for a month to play a game then unsubscribe

Without hard numbers this is a pointless debate based entirely on speculation. Your gaming habits sound a bit out of step with the market trends. I don't say that as a put down. I fall in that category as well. The trick is to not let your own biases, emotions or preferences influence how you analyze any given market. In any case, it seems highly improbable Game Pass isn't bringing in a hefty profit.

 

[Memorabilia]

Making a decision as drastic and as desperate as charging $120 a year of Xbox Live (twice the price!) tells me something is amiss with gamepass business revenue model.

It's far more likely you're analyzing this incorrectly. The Gold price hike move was obviously more about influencing a trend line towards Game Pass by making it appear to be the far better deal. Because it objectively would be.

If they had moved forward with this they would be offering the best deal in gaming and the worst deal in gaming, simultaneously. As thick as MS execs seem to be, there's zero chance they didn't understand this implicitly and put it at the center of the decision making process. Ultimately, the decision would've been bone headed but there is a logical construct to it.

 

[Black_Stride]

Making a decision as drastic and as desperate as charging $120 a year of Xbox Live (twice the price!) tells me something is amiss with gamepass business revenue model.

Except there isnt an issue.
Gamepass is growing faster and faster they doubled GPs users in less than a year............as they put it on more devices and keep promoting it its bound to keep growing because you dont even need an actual Xbox to be a Gamepass subscriber. I know people IRL who are GP members but have never owned an Xbox.
If you speak to the genpop when they hear about gamepass they are blown away by the prospect....the internet hardcore have some aversion to it, but clearly they arent the target market because they "dont want to rent games" the real bread and butter of gaming (the casuals) MS have an early foothold in it and are effectively making Gamepass synonymous with Game Subscription services

What exactly does XBLG price have to do with Gamepass anyway?

 

[Iorv3th]

I'm with you. The big thing to realize is that finally there is free online f2p games on the Xbox and that is beyond where they were even 2 days ago. It was crappy road to travel but we ended up in a better place. They need to think alot more before making moves like this.

They don't need to "think more" they need to hire better people to make these decisions. Someone that's dumb enough to enact this without thinking the backlash through shouldn't be in that position.

 

[Insane Metal]

Hell yeah the people have spoken.

 

[Black_Stride]

Sure you can tell yourself that to sleep. Let me just remind of how many Microsoft products and venture both hardware and software have already failed. A calculated risk is still a risk, and MS is not new to failures.

This is what I have in mind as potential recurring subscribers**:

1. MS hardcore fan who would support MS no matter what.
2. Trophy hunters.
3. High schoolers who play a lot of games every month - who is not into Fortnite (or other F2P), Fifa, CoD and the likes.
4. Those who have a lot of money that they don't care they waste $15 a month even though they're playing GTA6 (or the latest 3rd party AAA games) almost everytime he turns on his console.

It's so different how we consume games from movies or shows. A gamer can play a game for months and months if he is so engrossed in such a game. This is certainly the case with many FIFA/COD/Fortnite players. Each and every game that is not included in the gamepass service is a gamepass competition. (just a copy paste of my old post)


**as opposed to those who will subscribe for a month to play a game then unsubscribe

There are as many Gamepass subscribers as there are people who bought the PS4s best selling exclusive.

If that only includes the 4 potential recurring subscribers you speak of.....then MS is clearly doing something right because thats what a good portion of the gaming population wants.
So they might as well do it.

I dunno why you trying to downplay it.

But if MS only had old games on Gamepass and it still reached ~20 million people, we could say the service is shit.....but its paying for itself easy work, so MS wins either which way.
Its just good for all that the service is actually great and users understand that and are subscribing.

MS doesnt count people who join with trials for a month or whatever, just like they dont count trial gold members as active users.
Gamepass users are tracked only when active otherwise they would skew their own numbers when trying to make business decisions.

EA Play is part of Gamepass now FYI

 

[quazy]

Glad they reverted it. I'm on GPU, do it wouldn't have changed anything for me, but it still was a shitty move. If they want people to convert to GP, then they should make it more attractive.
GPU has an amazing value for me, but the normal game pass is somehow caught in the middle. I think they should include the online playing ability for games inside the normal game pass. This would make it more attractive e.g. for people buying the XSS only for games pass.

 

[pasterpl]

Ms announced price increase, internet got furious, ms reversed decision and added free f2p games option, fast turnaround. Meanwhile Sony games are still $70

 

[megreotsugua]

the real bread and butter of gaming (the casuals)

Uh oh. Same mistake MS. Same mistake with your Kinect targeting the casuals.

No casuals would pay $15/month to play Sea of Thieves or Gears of War instead of playing free to play games like Candy Crush or Pokemon Go, or CS Go, or Fortnite or whatever F2P there is in the future. You are out of your mind.

 

[Black_Stride]

Uh oh. Same mistake MS. Same mistake with your Kinect targeting the casuals.

No casuals would pay $15/month to play Sea of Thieves or Gears of War instead of playing free to play games like Candy Crush or Pokemon Go, or CS Go, or Fortnite or whatever F2P there is in the future. You are out of your mind.

Gamepass c is 9.99
Gamepass p is 9.99
Gamepass u is 14.99.

They have ~20 million subscribers as is dunno the distribution across SKUs.........thats not the hardcore because the hardcore just buy the games they want and call it a day. (Remember they dont want to rent games)
Thats the casual or rather the new core audience.

Ohh poor poor Microsoft what are they gonna do with all this money.

 

[megreotsugua]

Gamepass c is 9.99
Gamepass p is 9.99
Gamepass u is 14.99.

They have ~20 million subscribers as is dunno the distribution across SKUs.........thats not the hardcore because the hardcore just buy the games they want and call it a day. (Remember they dont want to rent games)
Thats the casual or rather the new core audience.

Ohh poor poor Microsoft what are they gonna do with all this money.

MS money is not coming from Xbox. And MS has no obligation to keep a business that is not giving them high profit margin. That's not how MS operate.

See: Zune, Kin, Windows Mobile, Nokia, MSN, Windows Vista, MSN, Music Pass, and just lately Mixer.

Microsoft Word software will not pay Halo developers. Xbox as a product, especially gamepass as a service will have to stand on its own.

Phil and Xbox division deciding to increase Xbox Live price by twice as much does not bode well for the health of Xbox division. Something tells me there's something amiss in gamepass revenue model. It's a money pit like everyone is saying.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

Damn, we should have been pushing for free gold. MS won another 2 decades of paid multiplayer.

The meeting where they looked at the Xbox Gold money graph must have happened, then Phillip ate a recalled Hot Pocket and never got to attend the 2:00 “We make 30% on Warzone/Fortnite” call this week.

 

[s-bojan]

Sure you can tell yourself that to sleep.

You don't get much sleep, right?

 

[Warablo]

Xbox has been dying its whole life according to a lot people, yet here we are. They just spent 7.5 billion dollars. They aren't going anywhere.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Ms announced price increase, internet got furious, ms reversed decision and added free f2p games option, fast turnaround. Meanwhile Sony games are still $70

Xbox games are $70 as well?

I have GPU but its not like every new game magically appears on it. Hitman 3? if I want it I have to buy it for 70 on either system I desire.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

So here is the new theory, from my ass: MS leadership wanted to do the first regular, small increase to Gamepass, but Phil knew it was too soon. He sold them on a Gold increase which would make up the money, and they agreed. It was a slow removal of 12 month options and then this 100% markup.

Obviously any increase right now would be a fuck up, but Phil wanted that fuck up on Gold and the hike had to be big to distract his boss. It’s why Gold never went away last July, it was still needed for Phil to save the Gamepass pricing.

 

[LisaMariaMartin]

MS money is not coming from Xbox. And MS has no obligation to keep a business that is not giving them high profit margin. That's not how MS operate.

See: Zune, Kin, Windows Mobile, Nokia, MSN, Windows Vista, MSN, Music Pass, and just lately Mixer.

Microsoft Word software will not pay Halo developers. Xbox as a product, especially gamepass as a service will have to stand on its own.

Phil and Xbox division deciding to increase Xbox Live price by twice as much does not bode well for the health of Xbox division. Something tells me there's something amiss in gamepass revenue model. It's a money pit like everyone is saying.

Sure. Thats why they just spent 7.5B.

Sorry to tell you but they aren't going anywhere for the foreseeable future.

 

[quazy]

Xbox games are $70 as well?

I have GPU but its not like every new game magically appears on it. Hitman 3? if I want it I have to buy it for 70 on either system I desire.

Hasn't Sony increased the price for their AAA titles to 80?

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Xbox has been dying its whole life according to a lot people, yet here we are. They just spent 7.5 billion dollars. They aren't going anywhere.

Xbox did not spend 7.5 Billion, Microsoft did. And if Xbox don't find a way to justify it quick, Microsoft would force them to put all the games on multiplats to pay for it.

Look, something is up, and Xbox Division needed revenue if not outright more profit. They would never have considered putting up the price of Gold unless they actually NEEDED that money. And now that money is gone, they had to find it elsewhere. But where?

Sure. Thats why they just spent 7.5B.

Sorry to tell you but they aren't going anywhere for the foreseeable future.

You would be more convincing if you told me Xbox earned 7.5 billion. As it is, spending 7.5 billion just means they now own assets that they need to see a return on. Just as Disney over-paid for Star Wars and is now struggling to make that money back.

 

[M1chl]

Hasn't Sony increased the price for their AAA titles to 80?

No to 70USD and I have Hitman 3 on store at 60USD (it's more like 65EUR, like it was before), not something like 94USD like how is Demons Souls.

 

[magnumpy]

Xbox did not spend 7.5 Billion, Microsoft did. And if Xbox don't find a way to justify it quick, Microsoft would force them to put all the games on multiplats to pay for it.

Look, something is up, and Xbox Division needed revenue if not outright more profit. They would never have considered putting up the price of Gold unless they actually NEEDED that money. And now that money is gone, they had to find it elsewhere. But where?

git good. or gooder

 

[quazy]

No to 70USD and I have Hitman 3 on store at 60USD (it's more like 65EUR, like it was before), not something like 94USD like how is Demons Souls.

Okay weird, my browser just shows this:

 

[LisaMariaMartin]

You would be more convincing if you told me Xbox earned 7.5 billion. As it is, spending 7.5 billion just means they now own assets that they need to see a return on. Just as Disney over-paid for Star Wars and is now struggling to make that money back.

The fact that you're even comparing those two shows how clueless you are.

 

[Jadsey]

It’s more bad news for Xbox owners.

Either the shortfall will need to be made up by increasing the GamePass sub.

Or they further decrease the quality of the games on offer to save costs.

 

[M1chl]

Okay weird, my browser just shows this:

That's the thing, it's 70USD in States and 80EUR in EU. This is the biggest bullshit about price hike, this is what I was opposing the most back when announced.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

The fact that you're even comparing those two shows how clueless you are.

No, it compares. When you buy an expensive asset, you want to make money from it as to justify the investment. Microsoft spent 7.5 billion, now Xbox need to show how they plan to actually make money from Zenimax. And if Xbox can't make money from Xenimax, then Microsoft will just make their games multiplat instead. Because that investment has to lead to profit, it isn't there just to prop Xbox Division up.

 

[pasterpl]

That's the thing, it's 70USD in States and 80EUR in EU. This is the biggest bullshit about price hike, this is what I was opposing the most back when announced.

Xbox games are $70 as well?

I have GPU but its not like every new game magically appears on it. Hitman 3? if I want it I have to buy it for 70 on either system I desire.

There is difference between games published by Sony and other publishers, hitman 3 is not Sony game, Sony games even in USA ps store are $10 more expensive than games from other publishers, check hitman 3 price vs returnal

 

[quazy]

There is difference between games published by Sony and other publishers, hitman 3 is not Sony game, Sony games even in USA ps store are $10 more expensive than games from other publishers, check hitman 3 price vs returnal

Then I remembered correctly! So Sony fanboys always admire their 5 big AAA exclusives each year which they have to pay additional 10$ now. As they all buy all exclusives (as they claim), they also additionally pay 50$ each year. Yeah well...

 

[Elios83]

I really don't know what they were thinking with all this unnecessary move but it's totally embarassing.
It seems like they first try to scam people and then if the backlash is too much to handle and it risks to damage the brand they backtrack.
And it's not just about the hardware and services but even games, the whole Halo delay debacle was an other example of this approach, they knew the game was totally not ready, they tried to gauge feedback to see if the Halo name was enough to have people excited about what they were showing anyway and since the answer was a huge no, here's a 1-year delay.
Btw it's obviously good that they reversed this bullshit 100% price increase quickly but it still shows where they're heading internally. They will try again to make their price increases look more ''presentable'' in the future.

 

[LisaMariaMartin]

No, it compares. When you buy an expensive asset, you want to make money from it as to justify the investment. Microsoft spent 7.5 billion, now Xbox need to show how they plan to actually make money from Zenimax. And if Xbox can't make money from Xenimax, then Microsoft will just make their games multiplat instead. Because that investment has to lead to profit, it isn't there just to prop Xbox Division up.

They already are multiplat. They just aren't on Playstation.

 

[mcjmetroid]

Paying online for consoles is more redundant than ever.

Just merge the service with Gamepass FFS.

I would think this is their intention but instead of raising the price of live.
Why not.. I dunno upgrade the Xbox live account to base gamepass account.

Then try to entise them to pay for the ultimate subscription.

Just merge it all into the same service with different tiers. It's already confusing enough as it is for normal gamers.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

They already are multiplat. They just aren't on Playstation.

Not being on Playstation would slow down how quickly that 7.5 billion gets paid back. What would Xbox Division offer in return? Well it seemed their first answer is to double the price of Gold. Well, that fell through. Now what?

 

[LisaMariaMartin]

Not being on Playstation would slow down how quickly that 7.5 billion gets paid back. What would Xbox Division offer in return? Well it seemed their first answer is to double the price of Gold. Well, that fell through. Now what?

This seems like a stupid conclusion seeing how they haven't even acquired Zenimax yet.

 

[The Hamburglar]

They tried to pull a fast one but the internet reacted so they shit themselves and reversed it.

honestly 120 dollars a year and still having the balls to charge for free to play games.

if social media wasnt prevalent like in the past, they would have not reserved this.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Then I remembered correctly! So Sony fanboys always admire their 5 big AAA exclusives each year which they have to pay additional 10$ now. As they all buy all exclusives (as they claim), they also additionally pay 50$ each year. Yeah well...

Assuming we'll see 5 of them and assuming we'll buy all of them at launch. You can also end up buying a shit game for 40 and then what. Or you might buy less games this year ending up cheaper than the one before it. This just doesn't fly.

Returnal I won't buy for example. Looks like a 29,99 game to me.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

This seems like a stupid conclusion seeing how they haven't even acquired Zenimax yet.

The money is spent, you said it yourself. Now Xbox has to show a path forward where they would make back that money, or Microsoft would take away exclusivity.

 

[LisaMariaMartin]

The money is spent, you said it yourself. Now Xbox has to show a path forward where they would make back that money, or Microsoft would take away exclusivity.

Your view of how MS or the business in general is operating is really adorable.