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[Royal-Slime]

It can be used as a good emulator of PS2 games.

I just hope it will advance the emulator scene of Xbox. I literally need just two games from Xbox - Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon. Nothing else from Xbox's announced titles (which usually come to PC anyway) interest me and I don't understand why they can't port those two games to at the very least PC. They waste so much money on Game Pass which is not that good even now when it's at the business stage of people loving it... and they can't make a basic PC port?? It reminds me of that thing with Gears 5 audio issues and Xbox controller which still aren't fixed. So much for Xbox being Microsoft and having PC market...

 

[Panajev2001a]

Your xbox plays like an xbox? You see no difference in performance? Okaaaay.

My son got one for his Xmas, and he loves it compared to his one S. He loves how small it is, how quiet it is, and how his old crappy running games now run well (he's particularly happy with Ark).

He also only has a 1080p TV, and so the X would have been overkill.

It is cheaper but XSX has advantages for 1080p TV’s too. First of all discs for movies and used games, second 4K to 1080p down sampling (improving IQ), XSS has already in some cases started to hit lower than 1080p native resolutions in games while making sacrifices over XSX visuals.

Also, XSX will be ready when he gets his first 4K TV, even a cheap model next year.

 

[Royal-Slime]

And that is why PlayStation Exclusives will lead and be console sellers yet again!

It will also decrease the number of potential Japanese games coming to Xbox. Japanese don't develop for Playstation because they're so in love with it, they do because that's what people buy. Now if a J. developer was to go for multiplatform, they need to develop two versions of the game for a console that is most likely not going to be interested in Japanese games anyway. And then we have Phil Spencer saying how much he wants Japanese market.

And this guy won "Person of the Year" or something for advancing Xbox, seriously? I guess the bar has fallen very low after that guy which ran away making Facebook games or whatever

 

[MrFunSocks]

It will also decrease the number of potential Japanese games coming to Xbox. Japanese don't develop for Playstation because they're so in love with it, they do because that's what people buy. Now if a J. developer was to go for multiplatform, they need to develop two versions of the game for a console that is most likely not going to be interested in Japanese games anyway. And then we have Phil Spencer saying how much he wants Japanese market.

And this guy won "Person of the Year" or something for advancing Xbox, seriously? I guess the bar has fallen very low after that guy which ran away making Facebook games or whatever

With the declining PlayStation sales in Japan the more likely scenario is that those Japanese devs don’t bother with PlayStation either.

 

[Jigga]

Yea this console dumb af. Should have just made it the digital version of the series x. Or not made it at all.

 

[Royal-Slime]

With the declining PlayStation sales in Japan the more likely scenario is that those Japanese devs don’t bother with PlayStation either.

Are they declining, though? Square Enix and their "we don't get enough profit" motto would not be making PS exclusives if that was the case. They barely support Switch, too. As long as Sony can get a hold of Final Fantasy exclusivity, Kingdom Hearts, Dragon Quest - PS consoles will be fine in Japan. Maybe not ground-breaking but fine. And the thing with Ghost of Tsushima will attract some new audience, too. Japanese seemed to love that game.

 

[jezhumphrey75]

It's a 1080p to 1440p 60fps console....I don't see the issue, but it should be a little cheaper imo

 

[Panajev2001a]

It's a 1080p to 1440p 60fps console....I don't see the issue, but it should be a little cheaper imo

It was sold as XSX at 1440p, then the half disk space came out (and the £219 SSD expansion), then games on XSS came out running at a lower quality preset than XSX (not just texture resolution) as well as resolution that could dip below 1080p.

I think MS had the perfect pincer strategy if PS5 came out at $549-599 with a digital edition at $499, but they did not.

I also would have preferred a digital only XSX for $399 than the XSS at $299 as I did not strictly need two consoles with an UHD player (it sucks I had to get some games digitally from the stores just because I do not have nor can get shipped my old OG Xbox and Xbox 360 discs to me, but they had very good discounts lately and I do not need to worry about discs ageing).

 

[MrFunSocks]

Are they declining, though? Square Enix and their "we don't get enough profit" motto would not be making PS exclusives if that was the case. They barely support Switch, too. As long as Sony can get a hold of Final Fantasy exclusivity, Kingdom Hearts, Dragon Quest - PS consoles will be fine in Japan. Maybe not ground-breaking but fine. And the thing with Ghost of Tsushima will attract some new audience, too. Japanese seemed to love that game.

Yes, they’re massively declining. Look at the lifetime ps2 -> ps3 -> ps4 console sales in Japan. Look at launch sales of them too, along with the PS5 launch sales. They’ve been massively declining for generations to the point of irrelevancy within the next 10 years most likely.

 

[cireza]

So the argument became : 300 dollars consoles are useless only 500 dollars ones should exist.

And some people are actually trying to convince themselves, and also believe they are convincing others, in this thread.

People who don't have much money, and people who have enough money but feel that a gaming console should not be more than 300 dollars, and people who want a secondary Series don't have the right to have a brand new product made for them. I see...

 

[MrFunSocks]

So the argument became : 300 dollars consoles are useless only 500 dollars ones should exist.

And some people are actually trying to convince themselves, and also believe they are convincing others, in this thread.

People who don't have much money, and people who have enough money but feel that a gaming console should not be more than 300 dollars, and people who want a secondary Series don't have the right to have a brand new product made for them. I see...

Yep. This forum yet again showing how out of touch most of the posters are with the real world.

 

[Panajev2001a]

So the argument became : 300 dollars consoles are useless only 500 dollars ones should exist.

And some people are actually trying to convince themselves, and also believe they are convincing others, in this thread.

People who don't have much money, and people who have enough money but feel that a gaming console should not be more than 300 dollars, and people who want a secondary Series don't have the right to have a brand new product made for them. I see...

No, just that the $299 is not the incredible value some are trying to sell and that $499 is not the only alternative, $399 is an acceptable price point too that comes with no sacrifice beyond the lack of discs playback (which the XSS already lacks).

 

[jezhumphrey75]

It was sold as XSX at 1440p, then the half disk space came out (and the £219 SSD expansion), then games on XSS came out running at a lower quality preset than XSX (not just texture resolution) as well as resolution that could dip below 1080p.

I think MS had the perfect pincer strategy if PS5 came out at $549-599 with a digital edition at $499, but they did not.

disk space doesn't matter plug a external hdd in!!!?? Games were running low settings because of devolopers, Microsoft can't control individual titles performance, the x s s is more than capable

 

[Panajev2001a]

Yep. This forum yet again showing how out of touch most of the posters are with the real world.

Not really, give us the XSX DE at $399, much better deal. Value is not just price in isolation.

 

[Chukhopops]

Agreed on the pricing and their positioning of XSX and XSS. I do not think they were prepared for Sony’s SKU’s and their pricing which worked really well for Sony.

I think there are much cheaper media center options once you take disc movies playback out of the equation and with some of them you are a Bluetooth controller away from gaming too.

This is also a race against time, against 4K TV’s adoption and XSS has already fallen behind the marketing promise of XSX visuals at 1440p and I think this message got to the public too.

Nintendo sells record amounts of Switch and I doubt all of those are used as portable consoles - people outside the core gaming segment really don’t care for or follow the performance discussions so I don’t know how much the second point will be a deterrent for them.

I’m back home for Christmas and saw my nephews and nieces, all the ones who play games play on Switch with one exception who plays on a second hand PS4 fat. They have no idea which resolution or frame rate they play games on.

At 249 or bundled with a game it’s a good deal, much cheaper than a Switch or PS5 DE.

 

[Panajev2001a]

disk space doesn't matter plug a external hdd in!!!?? Games were running low settings because of devolopers, Microsoft can't control individual titles performance, the x s s is more than capable

Disk space does matter, I currently have both the XSX and PS5 full and already juggle between them and an external HDD. XSS is capable but bottlenecked and having to create another performance profile and test it is not free and can cause either the higher specced consoles to be held back or the lower end console to get screwed and dip lower and lower in sub-1080p land and more.

You can nominally run old games from an external HDD (and you can spend tons of money on external SSD’s and all if you want), but that undermines a big advantage The backwards compatibility with older generation brings: loading times reduction.

Some games like Morrowind, Oblivion, and Deadly Premonition are transformed when running on the XSX compared to their original consoles or even the XOX.

 

[Kagey K]

So the argument became : 300 dollars consoles are useless only 500 dollars ones should exist.

And some people are actually trying to convince themselves, and also believe they are convincing others, in this thread.

People who don't have much money, and people who have enough money but feel that a gaming console should not be more than 300 dollars, and people who want a secondary Series don't have the right to have a brand new product made for them. I see...

The same people saying they aren’t buying new TVs because they are too expensive are telling people they can’t afford consoles.

The irony.

 

[Riky]

It was sold as XSX at 1440p, then the half disk space came out (and the £219 SSD expansion), then games on XSS came out running at a lower quality preset than XSX (not just texture resolution) as well as resolution that could dip below 1080p.

I think MS had the perfect pincer strategy if PS5 came out at $549-599 with a digital edition at $499, but they did not.

The Series X and PS5 have 8k on the box, were they being sold as 8k? How many 8k games do they deliver compared to how many 1440p games Series S delivers, hold everything to the same standard, don't pick and choose. When Series X runs at full 4k the Series S has tended to deliver 1440p, however the big consoles haven't delivered native 4k that often, you're talking about lower than 1080p at times on Series S, but the bigger consoles don't deliver 4k or anywhere near it in those situations, we're talking Watch Dogs and Dirt 5 120hz off the top of my head.

As for pricing, when DF spoke to Microsoft directly about that they didn't mention Playstation, DF asked them why they didn't just shrink the X1X and use that as the base console. The answer was that die shrinks were getting more and more difficult and are not going to deliver the savings of previous generations, that went for X1X and going forward.
Also the major problem with X1X was the CPU and HDD, they were the major bottlenecks compared to Series X, Series S solves those issues.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Nintendo sells record amounts of Switch and I doubt all of those are used as portable consoles - people outside the core gaming segment really don’t care for or follow the performance discussions so I don’t know how much the second point will be a deterrent for them.

I’m back home for Christmas and saw my nephews and nieces, all the ones who play games play on Switch with one exception who plays on a second hand PS4 fat. They have no idea which resolution or frame rate they play games on.

At 249 or bundled with a game it’s a good deal, much cheaper than a Switch or PS5 DE.

Switch has a perceived value beyond its price and there is a reason it is still overselling the cheaper Switch Lite: portability, co-op on the couch and in tabletop mode, etc... as well as the library of games it has (the Nintendo exclusives factor that help top the scales).

Again, value is not just price and perceived value is a more complex beast. If MS could remove the Blu-Ray player and price XSX at $399 it would be a much better value than XSS at $299 for me and I do not think for me alone.

Having only a digital only XSX at $399 and a full XSX at $499 would make it simpler for devs too as they would have a simple easy spec to support and launch games would not have had to struggle with the Lockhart profile early on.

 

[Xenon]

Not really, give us the XSX DE at $399, much better deal. Value is not just price in isolation.

Value is the key point of the S. There are many many people out there that don't value 4k graphics. $200 is a sizeable chunk of change to spend on something you don't care about.

The digital PS5 has been considered the consolation prize of the presale lottery... Why would MS make that?

 

[Panajev2001a]

The Series X and PS5 have 8k on the box, were they being sold as 8k? How many 8k games do they deliver compared to how many 1440p games Series S delivers, hold everything to the same standard, don't pick and choose. When Series X runs at full 4k the Series S has tended to deliver 1440p, however the big consoles haven't delivered native 4k that often, you're talking about lower than 1080p at times on Series S, but the bigger consoles don't deliver 4k or anywhere near it in those situations, we're talking Watch Dogs and Dirt 5 120hz off the top of my head.

8K was a bit of a stupid thin to put on the box despite one game here and there that might support it. It is more MS and Sony trying to prevent being pushed in a corner and have to release mid generation upgrades s a necessity instead of as a deliberate choice with freedom in timings and all.

As developers concentrate more snd more on what XSX and PS5 can deliver, XSS risks getting hit on resolution dropping below 1080p and quality settings being dropped as well more often than not. It was not a stupid idea if Sony had released their console at $50-100 more than the equivalent MS SKU’s, but Sony did not and thus the point is kind of moot IMHO.

As for pricing, when DF spoke to Microsoft directly about that they didn't mention Playstation, DF asked them why they didn't just shrink the X1X and use that as the base console. The answer was that die shrinks were getting more and more difficult and are not going to deliver the savings of previous generations, that went for X1X and going forward.
Also the major problem with X1X was the CPU and HDD, they were the major bottlenecks compared to Series X, Series S solves those issues.

Sure the bottlenecks could be even worse comparing to One S or One X, but they are still there. You still have a slower CPU, you have less RAM (and very very slow non GPU optimised memory), a slower GPU (reduced clockspeed, not just the lower amount of CU’s... and depending on how they laid out the CU’s they may have either the same shared resources [like ROP’s, ACE’s, Triangle Setup engine, etc...] running at a lower clockspeed or less resources and the lower clockspeed on top).

I know and have banged on the drums of diminishing returns with regards to manufacturing process scaling. It is the reason the BS of releasing HW more frequently, moving to a more PC like situation where you get a new box with new HW every 2-3 years is misleading and straight up wrong.
Console cycles should grow longer and/or boxes rise in size and price (cooling complexity) rather than getting shorter. The push for iterative HW is to protect ASP’s and keep consumers in the ecosystem being sold off as choice and e-peen warring material.

 

[Riky]

Disk space does matter, I currently have both the XSX and PS5 full and already juggle between them and an external HDD. XSS is capable but bottlenecked and having to create another performance profile and test it is not free and can cause either the higher specced consoles to be held back or the lower end console to get screwed and dip lower and lower in sub-1080p land and more.

You can nominally run old games from an external HDD (and you can spend tons of money on external SSD’s and all if you want), but that undermines a big advantage The backwards compatibility with older generation brings: loading times reduction.

Some games like Morrowind, Oblivion, and Deadly Premonition are transformed when running on the XSX compared to their original consoles or even the XOX.

You have an option to extend the fast storage on Xbox, it isn't cheap but an option is better than no option.

You do realise that all the games on Series S so far have come out on Xbox One S? Developers are already used to different profiles since the PS4 pro years ago, you claim developers are "struggling" with the Lockhart profile, where is your evidence of this? The Scorn developer denied it, the Ori developer denied it. Devs I bet were struggling far more to deliver these games on One S, see Cyberpunk for details.

You can run some Series optimised games from an external also, quite a few in fact. Click file info on the game tile and if it says Durango it will run from an external, hope that saves you some space.

Also loading times aren't "undermined" by using an external, I use and external SSD on my Series S and tests by DF show clearly on backwards compatible games the difference between that and running from the internal was miniscule, you still got big gains on old titles.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Value is the key point of the S. There are many many people out there that don't value 4k graphics. $200 is a sizeable chunk of change to spend on something you don't care about.

The digital PS5 has been considered the consolation prize of the presale lottery... Why would MS make that?

To give better value to users, to make the developers’ lives simpler, etc... (spend only $100 extra not $200).

You might not care for 4K now (those users will change their tune when they get their hands on one), but you would benefit from 4K to 1080p down sampling and the better IQ it brings.

You would get the better looking versions of the BC games as they would unlock the Xbox One X profile instead of the Xbox One S profile and CPU and GPU limited games would run closer to their dynamic resolution and/or framerate targets thanks to faster CPU and GPU.

You would get 2x the SSD space and that allows you to store more games and take more advantage of Quick Resume: sure you can run BC games from an external HDD (which might be cheap but it is not free), but then you lose one of the big big string points XSX brings to the equation for many of those titles... extremely reduced game changing loading times.

 

[Riky]

8K was a bit of a stupid thin to put on the box despite one game here and there that might support it. It is more MS and Sony trying to prevent being pushed in a corner and have to release mid generation upgrades s a necessity instead of as a deliberate choice with freedom in timings and all.

As developers concentrate more snd more on what XSX and PS5 can deliver, XSS risks getting hit on resolution dropping below 1080p and quality settings being dropped as well more often than not. It was not a stupid idea if Sony had released their console at $50-100 more than the equivalent MS SKU’s, but Sony did not and thus the point is kind of moot IMHO.


Sure the bottlenecks could be even worse comparing to One S or One X, but they are still there. You still have a slower CPU, you have less RAM (and very very slow non GPU optimised memory), a slower GPU (reduced clockspeed, not just the lower amount of CU’s... and depending on how they laid out the CU’s they may have either the same shared resources [like ROP’s, ACE’s, Triangle Setup engine, etc...] running at a lower clockspeed or less resources and the lower clockspeed on top).

I know and have banged on the drums of diminishing returns with regards to manufacturing process scaling. It is the reason the BS of releasing HW more frequently, moving to a more PC like situation where you get a new box with new HW every 2-3 years is misleading and straight up wrong.
Console cycles should grow longer and/or boxes rise in size and price (cooling complexity) rather than getting shorter. The push for iterative HW is to protect ASP’s and keep consumers in the ecosystem being sold off as choice and e-peen warring material.

You didn't answer any of my questions, you just repeated what you said earlier.

I'll ask you again, how many 8k games for PS5 and Series X have and how many 1440p games does Series S have in comparison? Putting 8k physically on the box is far more marketing than in some developer interviews saying we're aiming for 1440p.

XSS will obviously run at lower resolutions, that's the point of it. However why do you seem to believe that it won't have performance gains over time like the bigger consoles will? Example, Xbox One at launch Call Of Duty 720p, next year we had Advanced Warfare at dynamic 1080p.

 

[MadPanda]

I feel like this thread is a waste of time and I don't understand why you made such a thread.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

I think the Series S was based on the assumption that Sony would go 499/599 instead of 399/499. It’s a clever product but not at the right price point yet since there’s not a massive difference with the PS5 DE.

At 50€ less or bundled with 6 months of GP (or bundled with FIFA or CoD) it becomes really interesting for:
- people with tight budgets
- second console for kids (since it’s very easy to share the same account in the same household)
- people who want a media center option that’s not a giant white spaceship

Right now MS sells aggressive bundles with GP but only for the One S, in order to finish the stocks. Once it’s done I believe they will be more aggressive on the Series S too.

Excuse me, but why is it that such people wouldn't just use the Xbox One for that purpose? If someone has an Xbox account and recently bought a Series X, then they already have a spare Xbox One sitting around. Exactly why would they spend $299 on a piece of hardware that their existing Xbox One could already do for Zero dollars?
Yes, in theory Series S could run next gen games in a few years... But then why buy the hardware NOW, when it is at the most expensive? Just wait two more years and buy it at a discount with bunddled free games. The old Xbox One would do everything you already listed just fine until then.

 

[Danjin44]

The bigger issue isn’t it’s power but rather than it’s memory. For “digital only” console there is not much space, how it’s going to cost to get extra memory?

 

[McCheese]

It's a bad deal compared to PS5 digital, quite why Microsoft expected it to be the most popular model of the two is beyond me.

I think their "long-term price always wins" strategy with gamepass and the series s will backfire horribly due to poor word of mouth, look at Apple, people don't mind paying a premium for quality

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

It's a bad deal compared to PS5 digital, quite why Microsoft expected it to be the most popular model of the two is beyond me.

I think their "long-term price always wins" strategy with gamepass and the series s will backfire horribly due to poor word of mouth, look at Apple, people don't mind paying a premium for quality titles on top tier hardware.

I mentioned this before, but Nintendo didn't become successful because of their weaker and cheaper hardware; Nintendo succeed because of their consistent software output. People were okay with dropped frames and lower resolution because the games are solid, and customers know the games will come.

My suspicion is that Xbox mistakenly believe that they can sell consoles just by making it cheap, and that software is not needed. You know, the same mistake they made for XboxOne launch with TV TV.

 

[Panajev2001a]

You have an option to extend the fast storage on Xbox, it isn't cheap but an option is better than no option.

it is cheaper to get an XSX and a better choice to boot. Still, sure not that unexpected considering it is proprietary storage.

You do realise that all the games on Series S so far have come out on Xbox One S? Developers are already used to different profiles since the PS4 pro years ago, you claim developers are "struggling" with the Lockhart profile, where is your evidence of this? The Scorn developer denied it, the Ori developer denied it. Devs I bet were struggling far more to deliver these games on One S, see Cyberpunk for details.

Ok, since developers are not publicly complaining about tools, we can throw away that feel good FUD that tools are behind and massive gains are waiting on future sunlit uplands . BTW, there were some developers that complained publicly (before their company got purchased by MS and had to delete their tweets), but you can keep ignoring that if you want.

Bringing Xbox One X and PS4 Pro does not actually do more than proving my point: consoles that used their brute forced to deliver cheap patches and kept the platform alive for a bit longer while waiting for the new generation machines to hit. That is the case of the higher end HW likely under-utilised to ensure the base console version (which were the lead platforms) would run well.
CP2077 is the other case, the case where you start from the higher end version and work your way down (and have tons of very experienced people at it for lots of years, so yeah burning up quite a lot of money there too)... and performance on base consoles (and bugs showed.

You can run some Series optimised games from an external also, quite a few in fact. Click file info on the game tile and if it says Durango it will run from an external, hope that saves you some space.

Also loading times aren't "undermined" by using an external, I use and external SSD on my Series S and tests by DF show clearly on backwards compatible games the difference between that and running from the internal was miniscule, you still got big gains on old titles.

Sure, the more you spend on an external HDD/SSD solution the better it is, but it still not the same even if you spend more and those few extra seconds in a game like Deadly Premonition (and others) for example matter to me.

If you use an external storage for archiving purposes and re not willing to spend close to the cost of the SSD stick MS sells you you are undermining loading times.
Also, not interested in running optimised for Series X games on external storage tricking the system, not why I bought a next generation machine and this XVA bit for .

 

[Södy]

Yeah friend, agreed. It's completely unnecessary. it was never meant to be an enthusiast' console unfortunately. Size and price make it a dope side kick for the office or kids imo

So you're saying it is unnecessary before bringing up two valid use cases. Nice.

 

[Banjo64]

The funniest line I read regarding the Series S is; ‘just get a Series X/PS5 digital and a dirt cheap 4k TV’

It shows that a lot of the people posting on GAF, despite it being known as a technology forum, are tech illiterate.

You can get a Series S with a great 1080p monitor, like the AOC 24G2 or the Mobiuz EX2510, for the same price as a Series X or PS5 alone.

Those monitors have a great pixel density, IPS panels, low response times, VRR, 120fps support, wide colour gamut in the case of the AOC and 400nits in the case of the Benq.

Yet GAF tell people to spend £450 on a console and £300 on a shit 4k TV featuring fake HDR with no local dimming at 250nits, high response times and a shit panel made in some sweatshop in Ethiopia with no quality control.

To the OP, I have an S with a 24G2. Gears 5 at 120fps is just a factually better looking and performing than any PS4 Pro/Xbox One S game that I experienced on my Sony Bravia XD8088 (good TV, but not amazing and cost £700).

 

[Banjo64]

And to add to the complaints about storage, unlike the PS5 you can play most enhanced S|X cross-gen games like; Rocket League, Sea of Thieves, Halo MCC, Ori and the Will of the Wisps and Warzone directly from any external drive.

Digital Foundry did a speed test and SATA drives are nearly as fast as the internal. So from as cheap as £30 for something like the 250gb MX500 you can significantly upgrade the S’s storage.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The funniest line I read regarding the Series S is; ‘just get a Series X/PS5 digital and a dirt cheap 4k TV’

It shows that a lot of the people posting on GAF, despite it being known as a technology forum, are tech illiterate.

You can get a Series S with a great 1080p monitor, like the AOC 24G2 or the Mobiuz EX2510, for the same price as a Series X or PS5 alone.

Those monitors have a great pixel density, IPS panels, low response times, VRR, 120fps support, wide colour gamut in the case of the AOC and 400nits in the case of the Benq.

Yet GAF tell people to spend £450 on a console and £300 on a shit 4k TV featuring fake HDR with no local dimming at 250nits, high response times and a shit panel made in some sweatshop in Ethiopia with no quality control.

To the OP, I have an S with a 24G2. Gears 5 at 120fps is just a factually better looking and performing than any PS4 Pro/Xbox One S game that I experienced on my Sony Bravia XD8088 (good TV, but not amazing and cost £700).

Or instead of £449 for the console and £300 for the TV, £349 (PS5 DE) and £500-700 on a decent TV you can enjoy from your couch and also watch decent movies on .
You get better BC support, better picture quality (even at 1080p), 2x the storage space (XSX vs XSS), and better longevity for the HW (as devs start pushing the XSX and PS5 more unless somehow the XSS starts selling like crazy worldwide... which is not occurring), but thanks for the slightly passive aggressive MonitorMasterRace comments there .

 

[Riky]

The bigger issue isn’t it’s power but rather than it’s memory. For “digital only” console there is not much space, how it’s going to cost to get extra memory?

You're right, that's a bigger issue than resolution etc.

The cost depends on what you're playing. If you are only playing Series optimised games that need fast storage, not all do, it's £219 for 1tb here in the UK. If you need to do that then it makes no sense to not just buy a Series X.

If you're playing Xbox One games or Durango profile optimised games you can run from an external, so that can cost £50 upwards depending on size. Or you can move games to an external and move them back when you want to play them.

 

[Panajev2001a]

And to add to the complaints about storage, unlike the PS5 you can play most enhanced S|X cross-gen games like; Rocket League, Sea of Thieves, Halo MCC, Ori and the Will of the Wisps and Warzone directly from any external drive.

Digital Foundry did a speed test and SATA drives are nearly as fast as the internal. So from as cheap as £30 for something like the 250gb MX500 you can significantly upgrade the S’s storage.

You are playing fast and loose with the words there. “Nearly” the same loading times with a £30 HDD? Not quite hehe.

Also you are not adding a lot of space there, an extra 250 GB is not that great (not to mention you will likely enjoy extra pop-in in games making heavy use of data streaming as that will hit the seek times of the el-cheapo drive you got there hard).

Since we are talking about BC games, we are also only going to play with Xbox One S profiles instead of downsampled Xbox One X games due to the low XSS RAM compared to XOX. So, if you want the better textures, better effects and draw distance, etc... of the Xbox One X patched games you need the XSX anyways.

 

[Banjo64]

Or instead of £449 for the console and £300 for the TV, £349 (PS5 DE) and £500-700 on a decent TV you can enjoy from your couch and also watch decent movies on .
You get better BC support, better picture quality (even at 1080p), 2x the storage space (XSX vs XSS), and better longevity for the HW (as devs start pushing the XSX and PS5 more unless somehow the XSS starts selling like crazy worldwide... which is not occurring), but thanks for the slightly passive aggressive MonitorMasterRace comments there .

I literally posted that I have a £700 TV and am still advocating for the cheaper monitor that I own. Most £700 TVs do not have local dimming or the required nits which are required for true HDR.

You do not get better 1080p image quality blown up on a 43inch plus 4K TV.

You also don’t get 120fps support or VRR.

I’ve played tonnes of Halo, Gears and Rocket League online at 120fps, it’s brilliant.

 

[Kagey K]

I mentioned this before, but Nintendo didn't become successful because of their weaker and cheaper hardware; Nintendo succeed because of their consistent software output. People were okay with dropped frames and lower resolution because the games are solid, and customers know the games will come.

My suspicion is that Xbox mistakenly believe that they can sell consoles just by making it cheap, and that software is not needed. You know, the same mistake they made for XboxOne launch with TV TV.

What’s the point in having a PS5 or a Series X if you don’t have a CX, Q9 or X900h?

All that power is going to waste.

I would not recommend either of these systems to those that don‘t own those displays, as the extra money wouldn’t be worth it. And it’s only a couple hundred more thN the cheap TV you were looking at.

Right? This is the basis of this thread?

 

[Banjo64]

You are playing fast and loose with the words there. “Nearly” the same loading times with a £30 HDD? Not quite hehe.

Also you are not adding a lot of space there, an extra 250 GB is not that great (not to mention you will likely enjoy extra pop-in in games making heavy use of data streaming as that will hit the seek times of the el-cheapo drive you got there hard).

Since we are talking about BC games, we are also only going to play with Xbox One S profiles instead of downsampled Xbox One X games due to the low XSS RAM compared to XOX. So, if you want the better textures, better effects and draw distance, etc... of the Xbox One X patched games you need the XSX anyways.

I said SATA drive? Not HDD. Go watch the Digital Foundry loading time video yourself.

A 250gb SATA drive takes it up to the same storage as the PS5.

El cheapo? You really are a clown lmao, the Crucial MX500 is rated as one of the best SATA drives you can get (alongside the Samsung EVO) and has a full feature set including local trimming.

And as I said, you can play enhanced games directly from the external drive.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I literally posted that I have a £700 TV and am still advocating for the cheaper monitor that I own. Most £700 TVs do not have local dimming or the required nits which are required for true HDR.

You do not get better 1080p image quality blown up on a 43inch plus 4K TV.

You also don’t get 120fps support or VRR.

I’ve played tonnes of Halo, Gears and Rocket League online at 120fps, it’s brilliant.

Not sure why you are taking about 1080p image quality of 4K TV, I was referring to those still using 1080p TV’s and using an XSX or PS5 and enjoying the super sampled AA effect you get by the game rendering natively at 4K or near 4K and downsampling to 1080p for final output.

You can get very decent picture quality and 24 HZ support for £500-700 TV’s and also the higher resolution one would seek or stay on 1080p land and get the best contrast, local dimming, 24 Hz support without stuttering, etc... you can buy now or wait a few months and buy an entry level 4K TV with good enough HDR and local contrast and brightness management and the features you seek like 120 Hz support.

Balancing gaming, movies, couch playback and not having to restrict to a PC monitor size (the monitors you were quoting are 25’’) when watching TV shows and movies comfortably from the couch gives more flexibility too.

 

[Little Chicken]

Video games are sold in a lot of places where "$450USD" is too much money to spend on luxury items.

For example, the XSX costs Rs 49,990 in India, where the average monthly wage is Rs 32,800.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

What’s the point in having a PS5 or a Series X if you don’t have a CX, Q9 or X900h?

All that power is going to waste.

I would not recommend either of these systems to those that don‘t own those displays, as the extra money wouldn’t be worth it. And it’s only a couple hundred more thN the cheap TV you were looking at.

Right? This is the basis of this thread?

Your counterpoint fails, because we are not comparing Series S to PS5. We are comparing Series S with the Xbox One that the customer already owns.
The lack of serious next gen software for the next two years, means there is no incentive to buy a Series S if you already own an Xbox One. You can argue that there will be a reason to buy in two years, but that is THEN, and here is Now.

$299 is a lot of money, when you already own a previous gen console that does the same things. And if you consider the target being people who's money is tight and don't care for graphics, it makes no sense they would pay the $299 unless they HAD to.

 

[Banjo64]

As I said earlier, a lot of the people posting on GAF are technologically illiterate lol.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I said SATA drive? Not HDD. Go watch the Digital Foundry loading time video yourself.

A 250gb SATA drive takes it up to the same storage as the PS5.

El cheapo? You really are a clown lmao, the Crucial MX500 is rated as one of the best SATA drives you can get (alongside the Samsung EVO) and has a full feature set including local trimming.

And as I said, you can play enhanced games directly from the external drive.

I have watched those and 256 GB gets you little, you look for 1-2 TB at least once you go for external storage and £30 for that crucial say more like £45-55 pounds out of lucky eBay bids.

Again, £249 + £30-50 gives you an even close price point to PS5 DE giving you even less of an incentive to go for the XSS. You can play some of the enhanced games on the external drive (the few that fit) and for the BC games you get almost the same loading times keyword being almost. You also do not get Xbox One X version of the games (not even with restricted 1440p output or 1080p) either which is another downside.

Right now, XSS is not setting the world on fire so you are super strongly arguing against the flow, let’s see if it changes at some point.

 

[Kagey K]

Your counterpoint fails, because we are not comparing Series S to PS5. We are comparing Series S with the Xbox One that the customer already owns.
The lack of serious next gen software for the next two years, means there is no incentive to buy a Series S if you already own an Xbox One. You can argue that there will be a reason to buy in two years, but that is THEN, and here is Now.

$299 is a lot of money, when you already own a previous gen console that does the same things. And if you consider the target being people who's money is tight and don't care for graphics, it makes no sense they would pay the $299 unless they HAD to.

I thought nobody bought it. Now they all own it? (Xbox One X)

Make up your mind.

 

[Danjin44]

it's £219 for 1tb here in the UK. If you need to do that then it makes no sense to not just buy a Series X.

To me thats the heart of the problem with Series S. if someone buys Series S then that person don’t care about having most advance tech but it also mean that someone doesn’t want spend huge amount of money on gaming system.

But because of Series S small memory that person gonna end spending lot of money to get memory expansion, which at that point you better off buying Series X or PS5 instead.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Video games are sold in a lot of places where "$450USD" is too much money to spend on luxury items.

For example, the XSX costs Rs 49,990 in India, where the average monthly wage is Rs 32,800.

Then XSS is not going to make THAT much difference... and if you really part with half of your monthly wage getting the high end feel at a lower price seems more likely (hence the price point for PS5 DE and what would have been nice to have as XSX DE over the XSS).

 

[Royal-Slime]

Yes, they’re massively declining. Look at the lifetime ps2 -> ps3 -> ps4 console sales in Japan. Look at launch sales of them too, along with the PS5 launch sales. They’ve been massively declining for generations to the point of irrelevancy within the next 10 years most likely.

If the next economy crisis hits Japan hard, we're screwed in terms of games.

 

[Little Chicken]

Then XSS is not going to make THAT much difference... and if you really part with half of your monthly wage getting the high end feel at a lower price seems more likely (hence the price point for PS5 DE and what would have been nice to have as XSX DE over the XSS).

It just makes the barrier to entry lower. It will probably have more of a price cut down the line than the XSX will.

 

[Riky]

To me thats the heart of the problem with Series S. if someone buys Series S then that person don’t care about having most advance tech but it also mean that someone doesn’t want spend huge amount of money on gaming system.

But because of Series S small memory that person gonna end spending lot of money to get memory expansion, which at that point you better off buying Series X or PS5 instead.

I agree, if you need to spend on external fast storage. You can work around it though if price is a serious issue, just delete and redownload, not great but cost effective.

I think we need to balance this with who the Series S is actually aimed at.

Firstly people who just want to spend the minimum amount of money for a next gen console, if you can only afford £249 then this is your option.

As a bedroom console for children, it's small and quiet and will play Fortnite, Call of Duty, Minecraft and GTA, they will all fit on the drive no problems, maybe add FIFA too. Some people literally only play that many games, it's fine for them.

People who have a Series X like me but want to play their games elsewhere in the house, that's why I got it, when the other TVs are in family use I go and play Series S upstairs, it's just perfect for that.