Fake
Member
lmao. Is this another neo member TLOUS2 hidden fan?
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Teruyuki Toriyama - Producer of Bloodborne, Demon's Souls etc - leaves Sony Japan Studio
- Thread starter Neko Mimi Mode
- Start date
- News
Lol not hardly man. Haven’t bought TLOU2 and don’t intend to. Just a regular guy. Not into woke politics or weird Japanese incel stuff.
That being said it’s hard to deny that western franchises like Uncharted, God of War, Last of Us carried the PlayStation brand to complete victory this past generation and the playbook doesn’t look like it’s changing any time soon. It’s a winning formula.
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Fake
Member
Resetera guy? Got it.
Lol not sure why you’re equating someone that hates weird Japanese shit and wokeism with someone from resetera. Seems like quite the opposite, but whatever I guess.
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MiguelItUp
Member
An overreaction? Sure. But it's still sad to see someone leave a position that created some awesome games.
longdi
Banned
I have already said, Jimbo/PS5 is living off PS4 success.
But the direction Jimbo is taking PS5, it is worrying. We have seen pre-PS5 launch, how often we grimace at the musical chairs of execs and the lack of communication?
Another day another revelation at SCEJ, really points towards my speculations!
But the direction Jimbo is taking PS5, it is worrying. We have seen pre-PS5 launch, how often we grimace at the musical chairs of execs and the lack of communication?
Another day another revelation at SCEJ, really points towards my speculations!
Virt McPolygon
Banned
Jim Ryan from his home around PS5 launch
yurinka
Member
I know how it works, and also know that their console market has been shrinking over years while it has been growing in other countries.
In Japan is also one of the countries which had a bigger mobile gaming (digital only) growth, something common everywhere, because in their case always have been more of handhelds friendly market. Since Switch is half portable and now has the handheld market monopoly remained strong. So considering nobody ever cared there about Xbox, the home console market decrease affects basically Sony.
Like in all the other countries of the world the % of console digital sales/revenue have been increasing every year thanks to the release of cheaper games and more aggresive discounts, games discounted sooner.
2nd hand market and arcades always has been strong there, mostly because most Japanese live in small houses so don't have a lot of space. But at the same time the Japanese shifts more to digital (and mobile more specifically), both the arcades and 2nd hand market have been declining for years, closing many of them specially now with covid.
CamHostage
Member
Right, it depends on the company and the roles. Sometimes they're there to functionally facilitate the project, sometimes they're there to creatively steer it.
In big Japanese companies, I would say the producer is critical in maintaining the brand representation from beginning to end of the project: if you like games "by Sony Japan", you like the work of the producers.
Look at Mr. Toriyama's resume: Bloodborne and Demons Souls by developers From, Soul Sacrifice developed by Comcept, Folklore by Game Republic, Monster Kingdom by GAIA, Freedom Wars by DIMPS, Echoshift by Artoon... none of them are developed in-house by SIE Japan. Sony in Japan doesn't really have a lot of internal productions (Puppeteer, Knack, the Ico games, they own Polyphony Digital; some other stuff not coming to mind, but not much in recent times.) How SIE Japan works is that the producers produce the games for the company's imprint. They find the talent, take pitches and/or pitch their internal ideas, set budgets, rubberstamp creative decisions, solve problems, coordinate team efforts across the teams at all companies involved, plot the marketing approach, etc. Sometimes they're vital to the creative process, from idea to execution; sometimes there's a strong creative vision brought to the project already by the director and the producer is there to give him the tools to realize it.
This approach BTW is not unique to Sony, of course. It's prevalent in Japan, and has been since the early days of gaming. (Dragon Quest is Enix's claim to fame and is Yuji Hori's baby, but even the very first game was made externally by Chunsoft under "Director" Koichi Nakamura, and up through IX it was teams at Chunsoft and Heartbeat and Level-5 making the games under Hori's Designer/Scenario stewardship.) It's also not just a Japanese phenomenon. In his Incognito days, David Jaffe was somebody who kind of "middled" between producer and designer in the early Twisted Metal days by working logistics as well as design at the home base at Sony in California while collaborating with the SingleTrac team in Utah. Every Ubisoft game now is a collaboration between a head studio in one territory and a number of satellite studios, I assume with a lead producer at Ubisoft France and/or Ubi USA making sure every Assassin's Creed follows the playbook. (That was Jade Raymond's role for the first two, but I'm not sure who's the main person for AC these days?) It's also not exclusive to games. Jerry Bruckheimer has AFAIK never touched a camera, but if you ever go see a movie produced by Jerry Bruckheimer, you f***ing know it because he has a kind of "house style" that the directors he chooses follow.
Shigeru Miyamoto himself is known as the greatest game creator, but look at his credits and you'll see relatively little Director or even "Designer" roles; he's generally working as a Producer, but a Producer whose heart can be found at the center of all the projects he oversees.
The Producers rarely get famous in gaming, (heck, you're lucky if a regular game buyers even know the development company on their favorites, much less the creative leads,) and the fact that their role cannot be as easily described as a "Director" makes it hard to tell what their importance is on their own credits. (I think the reaction of "Sony Japan is doomed!" is a bit of hyperbole... although I do worry about SIE Japan and it's fading presence since basically the Vita died.) But Producers can be vital to a project (and IMO are more often integral to great games than in other territories,) and it'll be interesting to see where Mr. Toriyama ends up. Sony has a weird habit of signing projects with staff who have left the internal studio (Fumito Ueda and Eat Sleep Play, for example) so maybe there'll still be ties, or maybe not.
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losslessFlac
Member
I definitely get the feeling SIE Japan is relegated to making AA games and won't be given bigger budget for more ambitious games.
Weird that Japanese games are flourishing (Capcom, SQ-Enix, Atlus, From Software, Nintendo), but Sony doesn't grow the studio.
I acknowledge that they have Polyphonal Digital, but given their history, I really want another large SIE Japan studio.
Seems their strategy for Japanese titles is just console exclusives or limited releases.
Weird that Japanese games are flourishing (Capcom, SQ-Enix, Atlus, From Software, Nintendo), but Sony doesn't grow the studio.
I acknowledge that they have Polyphonal Digital, but given their history, I really want another large SIE Japan studio.
Seems their strategy for Japanese titles is just console exclusives or limited releases.
If you know how it works you wouldn't have said that FFVII Remake is going to end up close to 2 million, that's a 50/50 digital split that's unheard off for Japan outside of very rare cases like Monster Hunter World: Iceborne - where most owners preferred to purchase the expansion digitally. Monster Hunter World is basically the best performing big game in that regard for PS in Japan and that only had about 30% Digital according to Capcom leak. Unlike Monster Hunter World, FFVII is a JRPG it has no multiplayer component and once you beat it, in most cases you move onto the next game.
I've explained why the game will never have high digital sales even if it's discounted online, JRPGs don't have "legs" because once you finish the game you can just resell it - so there is usually a lot of used copies floating around that you can buy - play - resell. Just as an example during it's launch year there were close to 40.103 FFXV copies resold(game launched in December), the following year there were 187.172 copies resold. To put this into perspective forty thousand people finished FFXV in less than a month and resold it, the following year the game had x4.5 used sales, meaning it not only never sold its initial shipment - there was no reason to buy it digitally even if Square lowered the price - as it was being resold for a much lower price. At one point the game's new copies were even in bomba bins as retailers wanted to get rid of that initial shipment.
FFVII Remake will follow a similar path, where there would be around 100K copies this year re-sold by the end of the year, the big shipment which is close to 1 million ensures that there is never a need for a second shipment of the game. At best their digital sales are around 100K
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Kamina
Golden Boy
Your statement contradicts lots of available information you can find online. Yes, a director is the creative lead. I never said anything about taking creative decisions, i said critical decisions, which could be budgetary for example.
It all depends on the size of the studio in the end.
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Javthusiast
Banned
They don't give a fuck about sony japan. California makes decisions and western studios make their million sellers.
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Orpheum
Member
Sure. My apologies i just didn't think that a guy leaving would cause such a massive amount of worried reactions.
In my opinion sony japan studios has always had more of an overseeing and assisting role in the company especially for the games mentioned in the thread headline, the overwhelminblg amount of creative talent directly involved in the creation of said titles came from the studios actually developing them (e.g. From software) . Sure they do have the occasional fun product from time to time but that's the role i saw them in. So in my opinion it's a bit of a stretch to say that sony japan is doomed. People leave companies for various reasons, these don't have to be negative. Of course i can be mistaken here
For example when toyama left he stated that he wants to uphold a good relationship towards SIE so there may be even something good stemming from their absence in the long run and for Sony Japan Studio it means that another talented producer will step forward. That's just my two cents. No need to panic (yet)
yurinka
Member
I didn't say it's close to 2M. I said 'in the long term may end pretty close to the 1st one', because specially today with the discounts and subs, games only make a portion of their revenue in the first half a year or so.
Games don't stop selling/generating revenue when they dissapear from the retail top selling numbers, they continue selling specially online.
50/50 is unheard for most console retail (AAA/AA) games worlwide, not only Japan. Games with that 50%+ digital revenue (not sales) is mostly for very successful games with a big focus on microtransactions, and specially after big discounts, being included in subscriptions, getting DLCs etc.
It is way more common to see 30-40% sales from digital revenue (worldwide, not only in Japan). For many publishers their total revenue goes up to over 50% because they include super discounted catalog games and the (digital only) DLC/IAP/subs revenue. Both the % of digital sales and revenue keeps growing year after year worldwide, and in Japan too.
Btw where do you get the 2nd hand numbers?
Md Ray
Member
iamvin22
Industry Verified
Omg. It's cool you want to push your response behind whatever the internet says but it doesn't work like that. There should and always be people in specific departments that have the final say to move to project towards final. Producers have very little say in this matter. Directors have all say, period.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
"No Sony hasn't abandoned their JPN division!"
"People leave all the time guys nothing to see here!"
"Uh a game is made by multiple people this means nothing!"
Alright I believe you guys.
"People leave all the time guys nothing to see here!"
"Uh a game is made by multiple people this means nothing!"
Alright I believe you guys.
When talking about Japan, JRPGs stop selling once they exit the Top 30 because of used sales.
50/50 is fairly common in the West for AAA these days, unheard off in Japan besides a one exception MHW:I
Second hand numbers are provided by Media Create's white book which is released mid-year.
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Fake
Member
sO dRaMaTiC
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Lol!
Kamina
Golden Boy
Again, I never said they take creative decisions, dont put words in my mouth. Overall they are in charge over the development.
A video game producer is the person in charge of overseeing development of a video game.
Video game producer - Wikipedia
Edit: Anyway, I agree that this guy’s position probably doesnt matter in regards to future games as much as people may think, if at all.
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butane bob
Member
Correct. Producers have absolutely nothing to do with design or creating the game, or the quality of it. Their job is to get the product onto shelves by the deadline, regardless of its condition, so they can start making money, or face the wrath of the executives. They're the same as movie producers. So when you see "produced by so and so" you should ignore it, coz they didn't make it or have anything to do with it.
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KungFucius
King Snowflake
That's it, I am scalping my PS5 that is due here 1/9.
No seriously I likely will. I see nothing that compelling that warrants paying $530 for a box now when I could make a quick 100 bucks selling it cheaper than anything on ebay and wait.
No seriously I likely will. I see nothing that compelling that warrants paying $530 for a box now when I could make a quick 100 bucks selling it cheaper than anything on ebay and wait.
Unknown?
Member
Do you also freak out this much when it's a western dev?
Fake
Member
No offense, but he got a point.
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TheAssist
Member
Unknown?
Member
Nah he's just a troll. If we get news that Sony is laying off a good chunk of people there or that they can't find anyone to replace them then I'll agree that there is bad stuff going down but not when these roles are being filled by other people.
Fake
Member
IDK if what are you saying is true or not. When he do this, you can put on his face, but he still got a point. Maybe the guy that replace him is not good at his job. Only time will tell, but IMO Sony is getting too American and less Japan, leaving his japanese foundation behind.
Some people are fine with this, some are not.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Who's freaking out sanic?
Senhua
Member
Why everyone surprise by this, In Asia/Japan, Sony is all about publishing not developing. It's known that Sony always depended at third party to carry their consoles here. That's all their budget money gone to (exclusive deal aka moneyhat).
Japan Studio doesn't really matter in big picture of their Japan/Asia strategy.
Japan Studio doesn't really matter in big picture of their Japan/Asia strategy.
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Perrott
Gold Member
These things are normal after a period of management changes (Hermen Hulst appointed as head of WWS in late 2019 and Nicolas Doucet named head of Japan Studio in 2020), or don't you all remember how Sony axed both The Getaway 3 and Eight Days, which by the way also lead to a ton of talent leaving Sony, as soon as Shuhei Yoshida was named president of WWS back in 2007/2008?
What I do find interesting about this piece of news is the following quote by Teruyuki Toriyama "I will continue to take on the challenge of creating new IPs [at my new company]"; continue, huh? Does that mean that he was already working on a new IP before he decided to leave Sony Japan? Interesting indeed.
What I do find interesting about this piece of news is the following quote by Teruyuki Toriyama "I will continue to take on the challenge of creating new IPs [at my new company]"; continue, huh? Does that mean that he was already working on a new IP before he decided to leave Sony Japan? Interesting indeed.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
Japan Studio has been mismanaged for a fair bit now. Still remember when that guy from Sony Santa Monica went there to oversee a restructuring, and he was kinda shocked at how many employees they had but so little output came out.
Sony Japan Studio has to improve as it has been left behind, and hasn't followed the leaps made by the rest of WWS.
Sony Japan Studio has to improve as it has been left behind, and hasn't followed the leaps made by the rest of WWS.
PhillyPhreak11
Member
Progressivestation.
As a long time PS fan, I'm getting a bit concerned by them moving away from the Japanese market. SIE Japan Studio may get closed down with the way things are going there.
As a long time PS fan, I'm getting a bit concerned by them moving away from the Japanese market. SIE Japan Studio may get closed down with the way things are going there.
cm osi
Member
i mean, if you're not seeing the constant decline and downsizing of sony japanese output you gotta get your eyes check'd man.
it's clear sony doesn't really care about it and it's investing less and less.
both toyama and toriyama left and all sony japan does is astrobot tech demos.
it's not about "the end of times", it's about the end of what playstation was for some fans
they're making the big bucks with the hollywood games so the average fan won't care but if someone was on playstation for their japanese games they might have to search them elsewhere
Unknown?
Member
Well your post seems to be putting too much credit into this so you.
They had a good output on PS4, guess AA games don't count? If they stop making smaller AA games this gen or don't do collaborations then you'd have some credence to your post but so far there's no evidence of what you are saying.
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FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
This weird obsession and hate some people have with Jimbo is hilarious. Do some of you people not realize he’s been at PlayStation since the PS1 and is a huge reason why the PS brand is as successful as it is today? I mean you can disagree with the direction he’s going for personal reasons but you can’t disagree that PlayStation brand hasn’t been thriving with him under the helm. Since he took over in 2018 PlayStation has been dropping multiple GOTY candidates and blockbuster exclusives every year with record breaking sales and PS5 is the most sought after electronic product of 2020. If the guy is as toxic for the brand as some of you guys imply reality isn’t showing it.
cm osi
Member
i don't know what you call a good output but this isn't exacly a looker
that's 5 remaster, 1 vr addon, 1 vr demo
team siren is dead and the last game was gravity rush 2 from 2017 and team ASOBI makes tech demos.
i dunno man
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theclaw135
Banned
Elden Ring is by From Software. Isn't it?
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Bloomberg was right then.
So does it also mean the reduced PS5 production numbers are true too?
Very disappointed Jim ryan and herman are killing the tradition of SCE.
Repeat after me, block busters, cinematic qtes, block busters, woke protagonists
Reduced PS5 production numbers? I felt that they were possibly holding back production on purpose, but I haven’t heard that before.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
FromSoftware didn't worked on Demons Souls Remake. Only thing they did is give their blessing to Bluepoint to make the remake.
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