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[Mibu no ookami]

I keep hearing so many people on this board claim that Sony has given up on Japan and has given up on its roots, but it's been well documented that Sony tried time after time to try and save Japan studio and it just didn't work out.

The market has shifted significantly there to mobile and handheld and the games they were making were taking too long to make and weren't selling enough. This includes games like Bloodborne.

I always thought Sony should have invested more in acquiring Japanese studios because their internal studio in Japan left a lot to be desired. Sony has worked with a lot of studios in Japan over the years and some of these acquisitions really could have paid off like getting FromSoftware earlier, though ironically had this happened, maybe they wouldn't be as popular as they are now.

When you look at Tokyo Studio's big-ticket flops or underperformers, it's no surprise that Sony had to pull the plug on them.

Knack
Bloodborne
Last Guardian
Gravity Rush

Honestly, the Last Guardian probably sank Japan Studio. They didn't have many developers left after Team ICO left anyways and Gravity Rush was not a commercial success.

Sony even tried to get into mobile gaming in Japan by creating ForwardWorks before transferring ownership of the company to Sony Music Entertainment which has more experience managing mobile gaming with Aniplex. I think ultimately Sony isn't quite sure what to do in the mobile space, especially as it pertains to Japan, but they created a mobile game company in the same year they spun off ForwardWorks and bought Savage Game Studios out of Germany. Sony Music through Aniplex also purchased Delightworks.

It reminds me a lot of the late 90s early 2000s when Sony didn't have a PC strategy so Sony Pictures owned and ran Sony Online Entertainment, before being absorbed by then SCE, but then later being sold off.

Basically, they don't want to taint the PlayStation brand with failures, but they don't really know what they're doing yet with Japan and mobile. Others have been quick to confirm they haven't given up on Japan. They've purchased a lot of Kadokawa and FromSoftware. They've invested in exclusivity deals with Square Enix. They seem somewhat involved in the Silent Hill 2 remake as it will be a timed exclusive.

Not many companies are focusing on Japanese-centric AAA games and it probably makes even less sense to cater to the Japanese market as a first party if that market is focused on moba.

 

[kikii]

isnt Japan studio now Asobi or smt ? ;D

 

[bitbydeath]

I guess they didn’t have a knack for it.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

isnt Japan studio now Asobi or smt ? ;D

Team Asobi is all that is left of Japan Studio.

 

[Fuz]

I guess they didn’t have a knack for it.

 

[diffusionx]

How long has Media Molecule been wasting Sony’s money on pointless vanity projects?

 

[Hypereides]

"Taint it with failures"...

This apologistic justification of shutting down studio Japan by modern day Sony "fans" is becoming ridiculous. I mean, you're welcome to think what you want, but at this point the modern day Sony PS5 fan sounds more like a financial controller or accountant coming straight out of their economic department rather than an actual gamer.

There seems to be way more concern and focus thrown around their spreadsheets and YoY performance rather than the actual appreciation of the genuine creativity, quality and inventiveness of the output that stemmed from the Japanese outlet. If anything the reformed Sony is to blame for sidelining their endeavours and not displaying much confidence in them compared to their western titles.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

For me, Japan Studio is the "Nintendo of Sony".

I am very grateful to the Sony of before, from the PS1 to PS4 era that kept Japan Studio.

As always, since Jim arrived, the playstation brand was ruined.

And honestly, TEAM ASOBI It's not even the shadow of what Japan Studio did.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

What a load of crap

PS3/360 gen there was a lot of western propaganda against japanese games and developers.
It affected the public perception so much that even when japanese devs made awesome games, people would find excuses to diminish their efforts.

One example that comes to mind is with Dark Souls. I remember it pretty well some people saying that it only did well and was fun because it was a "western game made by a japanese dev" and that it was only good because they were influenced by western RPGs.

Due to the PS3 not meeting expectations, Sony was desperate during the beginning of the PS4 gen. When they realized Xbox and Nintendo had failed with their proposed consoles, they knew there was the opportunity to get back a big share of the western market.
And to do that, they decided to focus mostly on the west and gradually move away from Japan.

Their plan worked, and their games are meant to appeal to the western market primarily.
Since Nintendo is back on their feet with the Switch and has literally dominated Japan, they have no reason to try to win back that market.

Their focus is now 100% on the western market now, because that's their only hope of survival.
The same applies to Microsoft. But now that Microsoft is fighting back, things are getting heated in the west.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

The new trend is Korea and China. Japan as an industry (for the console space -specially AAA- ) is a little bit dire.

 

[anthony2690]

All I wanted was a new ape escape

 

[Beer Baelly]

Sony ditched Japan all together.

 

[nocsi]

Japan Studio getting replaced with square enix

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

I think a studio that produces superb passion projects despite not being a massively financial success has a place. Sony hits record profits often and they can afford to keep Japan studios open. The issue is if a game isn’t a massive success companies see no value in them despite having artistic impact. Companies want to punch every last single penny out of profitability. That’s not normal or sustainable.

 

[diffusionx]

Sony ditched Japan all together.

Sony’s mistake was forgetting that people in the west like Japanese games, always have and titles like MH, Souls, Persona, etc. are exploding in popularity. There is also a lot of good game design talent in Japan. It is strange to completely forgo that, when you are a Japanese company lol.

 

[lachesis]

I guess they didn't try hard enough. :/ (Still sour)

For their credit, 1st party products, a lot of times have to focus on global market with Japanese quirk.
They should have copied Nintendo as much as they could, but I guess that secret sauce is pretty hard to replicate for some reason?

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

How long has Media Molecule been wasting Sony’s money on pointless vanity projects?

I get the feeling that making their own games isn't MediaMolecule's main focus. I bet they do stuff in the background like support work, engine work, maybe work on the upcoming Launcher for PC, etc. I could be wrong of course.

 

[Three]

I guess they didn't try hard enough. :/ (Still sour)

For their credit, 1st party products, a lot of times have to focus on global market with Japanese quirk.
They should have copied Nintendo as much as they could, but I guess that secret sauce is pretty hard to replicate for some reason?

The part they kept Asobi makes stellar 3D platformers. Astrobot is great.

 

[lachesis]

The part they kept Asobi makes stellar 3D platformers. Astrobot is great.

I agree. I liked the VR Rescue (which is only on PSVR... so very limited exposure) - and PS5 included game.
But not enough in terms of quantity nor variety.

 

[Azelover]

The guys that made Bloodborne?? I fucking worship them.

Edit: No, that's FromSoftware. My bad.

 

[Danjin44]

The problem is Sony currently only care about games that do high sales numbers, which is mostly western games. This is why I dont want Sony having studios like Vanillaware because as good as their games are they just dont sale as much so Sony will do same thing as Studio Japan.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

How long has Media Molecule been wasting Sony’s money on pointless vanity projects?

MediaMolecule costs Sony pennies on the dollar and has made them significant money with the LBP franchise.

The reality is that Dreams will be a killer app on PC and VR if it ever goes to PC and VR.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I agree. I liked the VR Rescue (which is only on PSVR... so very limited exposure) - and PS5 included game.
But not enough in terms of quantity nor variety.

Asobi is reportedly working on a AAA title with a staff largely rebuilt up.

The problem was Japan Studio couldn't be reformed after 10 years of trying and it made more sense to shutter it and start largely over again with staff willing to work within a structure. That is what Asobi is.

 

[ProgenitorCastle]

I bought the PS4 in part because of Gravity Rush 2 and The Last Guardian and Bloodborne...a shame the current leadership isn't putting out games like these anymore

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Sony’s mistake was forgetting that people in the west like Japanese games, always have and titles like MH, Souls, Persona, etc. are exploding in popularity. There is also a lot of good game design talent in Japan. It is strange to completely forgo that, when you are a Japanese company lol.

I guess they didn't try hard enough. :/ (Still sour)

For their credit, 1st party products, a lot of times have to focus on global market with Japanese quirk.
They should have copied Nintendo as much as they could, but I guess that secret sauce is pretty hard to replicate for some reason?

Nintendo has over 6000 employees, largely based out of Japan. Not the easiest thing to emulate.

Monster Hunter, Souls, and Persona are not games that Sony has had success making in Japan not even with their own Souls games made by From.

 

[Punished Miku]

Gravity Rush is my personal favorite thing Sony's ever made. They didn't need saving in my opinion. Just invest a bit more in marketing.

If their games weren't giant sellers they could bolster PS+ Extra. Closing them was literally the single dumbest thing Sony has ever done.

Also enjoyed Echochrome, Tokyo Jungle, Puppeteer, Folklore and more. These are literally some of Sony's best games.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Gravity Rush is my personal favorite thing Sony's ever made. They didn't need saving in my opinion. Just invest a bit more in marketing.

If their games weren't giant sellers they could bolster PS+ Extra. Closing them was literally the single dumbest thing Sony has ever done.

Also enjoyed Echochrome, Tokyo Jungle, Puppeteer, Folklore and more. These are literally some of Sony's best games.

They weren't selling but somehow it was the dumbest thing they could have done.

Gravity Rush 2 has an 80 on metacritic. Not bad, but not setting the world on fire either.

Echochrome is a 79-81
Tokyo Jungle is a 74
Puppeteer is an 80
Folklore a 75

These games don't bring in sales or critical acclaim and Tokyo is an especially expensive place to have staff that don't bring in revenue AND don't bring in awards.

Dreams on the other hand is an 89
Concrete Genie probably cost Sony nothing to develop

And Sony can still promote games like Stray that scratch that itch for people.

 

[Punished Miku]

They weren't selling but somehow it was the dumbest thing they could have done.

Gravity Rush 2 has an 80 on metacritic. Not bad, but not setting the world on fire either.

Echochrome is a 79-81
Tokyo Jungle is a 74
Puppeteer is an 80
Folklore a 75

These games don't bring in sales or critical acclaim and Tokyo is an especially expensive place to have staff that don't bring in revenue AND don't bring in awards.

Dreams on the other hand is an 89
Concrete Genie probably cost Sony nothing to develop

And Sony can still promote games like Stray that scratch that itch for people.

If all you want to do in this thread is talk about sales numbers and metacritic scores then I'll leave you to it.

These were great games that literally shaped my entire perception of Sony as a brand. Whatever they were spending in salary for employees was peanuts compared to the goodwill and library diversity it fostered. For me, it was literally the dumbest decision they've ever made and they've made a few major ones.

 

[diffusionx]

MediaMolecule costs Sony pennies on the dollar and has made them significant money with the LBP franchise.

The reality is that Dreams will be a killer app on PC and VR if it ever goes to PC and VR.

Look, the main thrust of your OP is that Sony is holding their studios to some sort of objective standard in terms of success and here they have this black hole that hasn’t done a single thing of relevance in a decade yet they keep spending money to keep them around. They haven’t worked on LBP in a decade at this point and Dreams is totally, completely irrelevant. If there was a way to make it relevant then you’d think they would have done it by now.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

If all you want to do in this thread is talk about sales numbers and metacritic scores then I'll leave you to it.

These were great games that literally shaped my entire perception of Sony as a brand. Whatever they were spending in salary for employees was peanuts compared to the goodwill and library diversity it fostered. For me, it was literally the dumbest decision they've ever made and they've made a few major ones.

What goodwill and diversity? You were the only one who bought the games...

How is it creating good will if no one played them?

 

[Banjo64]

Knack
Bloodborne
Last Guardian
Gravity Rush

All I’m seeing are 3 of Sonys best games of the past generation.




Knack, Knack and Knack.

 

[Punished Miku]

What goodwill and diversity? You were the only one who bought the games...

How is it creating good will if no one played them?

How indeed? Have you ever noticed the sentiment and general vibe consumers have around Sony these days (particularly hardcore gamers like the ones that post here)? They are making money but they've absolutely thrown away something major. Maybe one day you'll figure it out.

 

[nial]

Their output in the PS4 gen with Bloodborne, The Last Guardian, Gravity Rush 2, Astro Bot: Rescue Mission and Death Stranding (I think?) was better than what they were doing in the PS2-PS3 era.

 

[Danjin44]

What goodwill and diversity? You were the only one who bought the games...

How is it creating good will if no one played them?

With that logic Vanillaware should not release games because niche and not popular enough? If only popular games with big sales numbers should allowed to be made then we would have vey boring game selection.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Look, the main thrust of your OP is that Sony is holding their studios to some sort of objective standard in terms of success and here they have this black hole that hasn’t done a single thing of relevance in a decade yet they keep spending money to keep them around. They haven’t worked on LBP in a decade at this point and Dreams is totally, completely irrelevant. If there was a way to make it relevant then you’d think they would have done it by now.

Dreams is sitting on an 89 on Metacritic with an 8.7 user score. It literally just came out at the beginning of the pandemic.

I would not be surprised since Sony has changed their tune on PC that Dreams will be ported to PC, where it will almost certainly be more popular. It's not something that you can just do overnight, especially if that wasn't the original plan.

The game won a ton of awards which actually matters in the industry, especially when it comes to culture and recruitment and again MediaMolecule doesn't cost you anything. A large studio in the middle of Tokyo who doesn't make games that sell at all... costs you a lot.

Tearaway unfolded another game that costs nothing had an 87 on metacritic.

Media Molecule has consistent quality. Their rolling average across 4 games that they primarily developed is an 90.5.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Their output in the PS4 gen with Bloodborne, The Last Guardian, Gravity Rush 2, Astro Bot: Rescue Mission and Death Stranding (I think?) was better than what they were doing in the PS2-PS3 era.

Bloodborne and Death Stranding were not developed by Japan Studio. They've invested in FromSoftware/Kadokawa and continue to work with Kojima Productions.

The Last Guardian was supposed to be a PS3 game that was delayed and was released as a buggy PS4 game that did not perform well. ICO Team left Sony before the game released.

Gravity Rush did not sell well.

Astrobot's team was kept.

So really you had two teams Asobi and Team Gravity and they kept the one they had interest in.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

How indeed? Have you ever noticed the sentiment and general vibe consumers have around Sony these days (particularly hardcore gamers like the ones that post here)? They are making money but they've absolutely thrown away something major. Maybe one day you'll figure it out.

Sony is more successful than they have ever been before and their titles continue to sell much better than they have ever done during any other period of their software development, so sounds like consumers are pretty happy.

And there are a few people obsessed with Sony Japan who are angry about it and ignore the business realities of keeping a studio open in Tokyo of that size with no production. The studio existed in name only anyways.

 

[Punished Miku]

Sony is more successful than they have ever been before and their titles continue to sell much better than they have ever done during any other period of their software development, so sounds like consumers are pretty happy.

And there are a few people obsessed with Sony Japan who are angry about it and ignore the business realities of keeping a studio open in Tokyo of that size with no production. The studio existed in name only anyways.

Youre also ignoring the whole point of my post. I acknowledged they're making a ton of money. Theyre clearly successful. And yet I have never seen so much animosity towards them as I have this gen. It didn't exist in the past at all, aside from anger at the $599 price point on PS3.

You asked how smaller games often sold at lower price points that offered significant diversity to their library generated goodwill, but refuse to see it when its pointed out. Their entire image as a brand is now different and consumers (particularly hardcore gamers) have noticed. It has nothing to do with an obsession around Japan Studio.

 

[nush]

PS3/360 gen there was a lot of western propaganda against japanese games and developers.

A lot? Then surely you can show some proof.

 

[Punished Miku]

A lot? Then surely you can show some proof.

I 100% agree with him. Im not digging up links from 2007-2010 though. Its 100% true though.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

How long has Media Molecule been wasting Sony’s money on pointless vanity projects?

Media Molecule has like 40 people if that many and as far as I know both little big planet were huge hits for them. Dreams i have no idea but as little big planet before it it was a critical success and clearly sony has plans for them.

Sony Japan didn’t have hits for a decade neither commercially or critically if not more, it had quite a lot more people and plenty of those were senior producers and some industry veterans that were expensive to keep specially considering they weren’t releasing anything. Guess what studio was more expensive to keep?

Y’all keep talking about this studio as if you loved it but kept using Knack as a meme and Gravity Rush is never mentioned anywhere lmao.

The studio was basically functioning as a support studio and team asobi…which were kept. (The support studio is basically xdev in japan).

 

[Klosshufvud]

I'm sick and tired of the current leadership of Sony. Just the same recycled AAA heavy hitters repeated yearly since 2015. Bloodborne was the last time a "Sony" title truly amazed me, but that was From Software carrying the actual weight. I guess The Last Guardian was also a hugely refreshing experience. I just get sick to my stomach with Hermann Hulst shoving Alloy in everything and Jimbo Ryan chasing that AAA CoD gold even though Sony's legacy has never been that.

By shutting down Sony Japan Studios, the company is abandoning their founding principles of encouraging first-party innovation at the expense of immediate financial returns. This is literally how their first-parties have always operated. Only just recently are the non-10 million sellers deemed as flops. Before, they used to be considered much needed variety between the blockbusters like FF7 and MGS. The mentality in OP is exactly what's bringing Sony down. They're so shamelessly focused on immediate profits and quarterly reports. It spreads to every decision they make. Everything is hyper-monetized now. It's no wonder a significant portion of their hardcore userbase has fled to PC (source: Capcom execs). We see how well it turns out when a studio places all its bets on the same 3-4 AAA titles. It's almost hilarious seeing Jimbo Ryan shit bricks over losing CoD. As if they haven't purposely lead a strategy that has placed CoD and other AAA front and center at the expense of everything else. You reap what you sow.

 

[Hypereides]

They weren't selling but somehow it was the dumbest thing they could have done.

Gravity Rush 2 has an 80 on metacritic. Not bad, but not setting the world on fire either.

Echochrome is a 79-81
Tokyo Jungle is a 74
Puppeteer is an 80
Folklore a 75

These games don't bring in sales or critical acclaim and Tokyo is an especially expensive place to have staff that don't bring in revenue AND don't bring in awards.

Dreams on the other hand is an 89
Concrete Genie probably cost Sony nothing to develop

And Sony can still promote games like Stray that scratch that itch for people.

Good grief, you're practically affirming the modern Sony fan stereotype I was kinda half worried about. You guys are completely caught up in useless metrics like review scores and score aggregators like Metacritic.

Does your enjoyment of games seriously hinge on what kind of score a game receives or what perception it has? - by some random gaming journalist no less?
I can straight up tell you I have played most of those games you highlit. They are good if not great. No arbitrary review score will change that. Its mildy frustrating to see people genuinely believe games like Puppeteer and Folklore aren't worthy of acknowledgement due to some random ass score they got attached.
Besides, in what bizarre dimension is above 70 considered a bad game?

Its unnerving how much of a warped perception some people carry about review scores. No wonder most modern AAA games have become so obscenely steamlined when most gamers seem to refuse to acknowledge games within that bracket. It makes them bound to fail.

Their output in the PS4 gen with Bloodborne, The Last Guardian, Gravity Rush 2, Astro Bot: Rescue Mission and Death Stranding (I think?) was better than what they were doing in the PS2-PS3 era.

Repeatedly pressing X to doubt here, amigo.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Japan Studio died for the same reasons almost all game development that isn't phone games, indie games, and AAA games is gone now.

This has little to do with Sony, who literally tried to prop up Japan Studio when the games weren't selling and it was losing money every year. Ultimately, gaming is a business and that's something that GAF has never understood. In the end, Sony needed Japan Studio to turn a profit and it never did. Boondoggles like the decade-long development of The Last Guardian certainly didn't help matters. They really did try.

None of you guys have phones either apparently. This is why you complain all the time about there being nothing left but AAA, that's because the console ecosystem can now only support AAA titles unless you are Nintendo. All the smaller unique games are either indie titles or are on phones which none of you seem to have.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Youre also ignoring the whole point of my post. I acknowledged they're making a ton of money. Theyre clearly successful. And yet I have never seen so much animosity towards them as I have this gen. It didn't exist in the past at all, aside from anger at the $599 price point on PS3.

You asked how smaller games often sold at lower price points that offered significant diversity to their library generated goodwill, but refuse to see it when its pointed out. Their entire image as a brand is now different and consumers (particularly hardcore gamers) have noticed. It has nothing to do with an obsession around Japan Studio.

I've been here from the beginning. There has always been animosity. You can't make everyone happy.

You had people angry at the 600 dollar price tag, even though there was a 500 dollar verison.

You had people who were angry that they removed backward compatibility.

You had people who were angry that they didn't have rumble on the sixaxis controller.

You had people who were angry that they closed down Psygnosis, Evolution and BigBig Studios.

You had people upset that they didn't get more Jak and Daxter.

You had people upset that they didn't get the rights to Crash and Spyro.

You had people upset that they killed off the Vita.

You had people upset that they killed off the PSTV.

You had people upset they started charging for online play.

You had people upset that the PS4 wouldn't play audio CDs.

You had people upset they didn't do a sequel to the order.

You had people upset they didn't have a PS1-3 emulator on PS4 and now PS5.

It goes on and on and on.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Good grief, you're practically affirming the modern Sony fan stereotype I was kinda half worried about. You guys are completely caught up in useless metrics like review scores and score aggregators like Metacritic.

Does your enjoyment of games seriously hinge on what kind of score a game receives or what perception it has? - by some random gaming journalist no less?
I can straight up tell you I have played most of those games you highlit. They are good if not great. No arbitrary review score will change that. Its mildy frustrating to see people genuinely believe games like Puppeteer and Folklore aren't worthy of acknowledgement due to some random ass score they got attached.
Besides, in what bizarre dimension is above 70 considered a bad game?

Its unnerving how much of a warped perception some people carry about review scores. No wonder most modern AAA games have become so obscenely steamlined when most gamers seem to refuse to acknowledge games within that bracket. It makes them bound to fail.


Repeatedly pressing X to doubt here, amigo.

No one plays all the games, but I can tell you these things matter.

Sony wants sales or they want critical acclaim that helps build up cache for future sales or helps recruit talent for future sales.

They're running a business and no 70s don't help them.

 

[Klosshufvud]

No one plays all the games, but I can tell you these things matter.

Sony wants sales or they want critical acclaim that helps build up cache for future sales or helps recruit talent for future sales.

They're running a business and no 70s don't help them.

You let Sony mind their business and maybe you should mind yours. As a fan of video games, is this the direction you WANT Sony to take? I have no idea why you're so intent on playing devil's advocate here. We all know why they got shut down. They didn't generate the money that Sony wanted them to. Has that decision benefitted you as a Playstation gamer?

 

[Hypereides]

No one plays all the games, but I can tell you these things matter.

Sony wants sales or they want critical acclaim that helps build up cache for future sales or helps recruit talent for future sales.

They're running a business and no 70s don't help them.

Hey buddy, lay off the accountant hat for a while and converse with me like a gamer. I don't give a toss about the financial aspects in this case.

Those games were absolutely well above solid.

 

[Danjin44]

Hey buddy, lay off the accountant hat for a while and converse with me like a gamer. I don't give a toss about the financial aspects in this case.

Those games were absolutely well above solid.

More importantly makes games selection more varied and interesting. PS1, PS2 and even PS3 had nice amount of both Japanese and western games but starting with PS4 that all changed and Sony start mostly focusing western games because it makes the most money.

I guess its good from business perspective but god damn the game selection become very dull this gen.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

I'm sick and tired of the current leadership of Sony. Just the same recycled AAA heavy hitters repeated yearly since 2015. Bloodborne was the last time a "Sony" title truly amazed me, but that was From Software carrying the actual weight. I guess The Last Guardian was also a hugely refreshing experience. I just get sick to my stomach with Hermann Hulst shoving Alloy in everything and Jimbo Ryan chasing that AAA CoD gold even though Sony's legacy has never been that.

I don’t know how to tell you this but all games released until Ragnarok were games greenlighted by the previous ceo. In fact it’s the last game from the previous ceo.

We have yet to see anything released that was approved and greenlighted by the people in charge now. And COD…that deal started with the previous ceo as well lmao