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[londontko]

Something tells me that guy doesn't see anything wrong with that.


You can't dictate any criteria when you send out products for review. Everyone has a different approach to reviews, when cars get reviewed some people value looks over performance, comfort over capability, safety features over this or that. That's why folks watch 50 different reviewers on one car, to identify themselves with one of those reviewers in the things they personally care about. Guess what, we all have opinions and we all care about different strings of things.

Also, manufacturers learn from all of those different things people complain about or adore about a product.

It boils down to this: Nvidia doesn't agree with the coverage of their cards and doesn't feel obligated to send them any more free hardware.

From a business perspective what do they have to gain by continuing to subsidize a reviewer who won't cover them fairly? It's like you said, they are doing this for exposure and if it's not good exposure (and they don't perceive the criticism as fair) why continue? As I pointed out before Nvidia can handle criticism (3090, 20 series launch) but this is different. Some will agree and some won't, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree and move on.

 

[londontko]

Actually, if all these YouTubers boycotted Nvidia. Nvidia would suffer greatly, these guys built their platform and audience that Nvidia wants access too. You think I go to one of these YouTubers just for their reviews on Nvidia products? No, my dude, no.

They built their channels reviewing and testing hundreds of products, not just Nvidia ones.

I'm not sure what your point is here? You think Youtube tech reviewers are responsible for Nvidia's market share? Or is it because they put out a superior product? I think you're giving the tech channels a little too much credit.

 

[HTK]

It boils down to this: Nvidia doesn't agree with the coverage of their cards and doesn't feel obligated to send them any more free hardware.

From a business perspective what do they have to gain by continuing to subsidize a reviewer who won't cover them fairly? It's like you said, they are doing this for exposure and if it's not good exposure (and they don't perceive the criticism as fair) why continue? As I pointed out before Nvidia can handle criticism (3090, 20 series launch) but this is different. Some will agree and some won't, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree and move on.

It's not free hardware when you get in return marketing of a much higher value than the cost of your GPU.

Nvidia singling out one specific channel is bullying, why don't they get the balls and don't send out their cards to anyone? Oh yeah because it wouldn't be a smart business move would it now.

 

[lukilladog]

I don´t know why you intelligent guys still care about controlled product reviews.

 

[HTK]

I'm not sure what your point is here? You think Youtube tech reviewers are responsible for Nvidia's market share? Or is it because they put out a superior product? I think you're giving the tech channels a little too much credit.

No, but when you spend $10,000 or $20,000 worth of equipment for these YouTubers and get in return 100K-200k in the marketing of course it matters.

 

[smbu2000]

Garbage move by Nvidia. If viewers don’t agree with HU reviews then they should be the ones telling HU. Not Nvidia.

Just like when MSI tries to do the same to Gamers Nexus.



Stuff like this makes me want to avoid buying Nvidia products.
Been trying to decide between a 6800XT and a 3080 and this is pushing me towards AMD. Although it’s much easier to find/buy a 3080...

 

[Irobot82]

They also happen to be the (1) of (2) site from out of (17) that favors 6800 XT at 1440p, but not only a possible error, they have the lowest average for the 3080. (again a narrative we keep hearing since the beginning that the 6800 XT is better at rasterization at lower resolutions, it's statistically not)

Horizon zero dawn, Gears 5, Assassin's creed Valhalla, Resident evil 3, World War Z
This is their 18 game set list.

Godfall - AMD TITLE
Watch Dogs Legion - NVIDIA TITLE
Assassin's Creed Valhalla - AMD
Dirt 5 - AMD TITLE
Death Stranding - NVIDIA TITLE
Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 - NEUTRAL
Shadow of the Tomb Raider - NVIDIA TITLE
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege - ???
F1 2020 - ???
Gears 5 - AMD
Horizon Zero Dawn - AMD
Assassin's Creed Odyssey - ???
World War Z - AMD
Metro Exodus - NVIDIA TITLE
Resident Evil 3 - AMD
DOOM Eternal - NVIDIA TITLE
Wolfenstein: Youngblood - NVIDIA TITLE
Hitman 2 - ???

Tried to do this list as best I can. In terms of sponsered games or optimized games or games with exclusive features. But I don't know all of them.

So far.

AMD 7
Nvidia - 6

Score could change.

Edit: I'm still curious if it's more because they were using a Ryzen 3000 series CPU? They said they are waiting on a 5950x and will redo all benchmarks once they get one. I think most review sites are using Intel 10XXX CPU's.

Edit2: Updates scores. 7 to AMD and 6 to Nvidia. So about an even split.

 

[mr.dilya]

But muh RT's. It's the only metric that matters.

Obnoxious geeks on the internet always think the world should revolve around them. Nothing surprising.

 

[TriSuit666]

I didn't realise that getting a free review sample means they also get to decide how you do your review. Usually doesn't work this way. Journalists get free copies of games ahead of time for review, can you imagine "banning" them because they didn't try new game plus or didn't play the game a certain way? This will just make me question nvidia GPU reviews from now on.

Dont be naive. You forget the time Nintendo were caught red handed telling youtubers how they wanted the initial reviews of the Switch to go down, including approved talking points that were required during the review.

This kind of shit has been happening ever since the review was born.

 

[mr.dilya]

Getting free shit is not a right.

Why are people mad that Nvidia’s not sending free shit to reviewers? Also it’s not a ban because Hardware Unboxed can still review Nvidia products. HU is just whining on Twitter and using manipulative words like “ban.”

You are right reviewers shouldn't get shit for free. But this type of behavior kind of exposes the real purpose of free samples - which is to entice a favorable review.

 

[ANDS]

Obnoxious geeks on the internet always think the world should revolve around them. Nothing surprising.

It really is surprising to see these takes. No, no company is obliged to provide review units (and in turn revenue) to platforms. They also shouldn't be dictating the editorial direction of a platform and directly tying access to it. They could have just said "As your platform is not focused on RTX functionality we have suspended blah blah blah." To say "cover RTX or else" puts a strongarm bent to the ask.

 

[Ascend]

That's a false equivalency. My perspective is that they want their cards reviewed using fair criteria (which is entirely reasonable), look at Nvidia's reaction to everyone trashing the 3090's value proposition. They weren't taking away anyone's cards because it was a fair criticism. Ignoring or downplaying a major feature because the competition doesn't have it and the REVIEWER deems it unimportant is not reasonable; so why would Nvidia be obligated to provide them the privilege of free hardware?

No it's not a false equivalency. You're dodging the issue. You said multiple times that nVidia is not obligated to provide them with review samples. Fine. And you also admitted that nVidia is not entitled to get free marketing from their reviewers that get samples from them. Also fine.

It's quite obvious that nVidia wants them to market RT for them. You basically are admitting this fact in this very reply of yours, because you are talking about "fair criteria" but think that nVidia should be able to dictate those criteria.

It doesn't work that way. Either you think nVidia is entitled to free marketing from their reviewers, or you think nVidia withholding cards for reviewers to talk about what nVidia wants is wrong. You can't have it both ways.

It's not even the first time that happened;

 

[M1chl]

Garbage move by Nvidia. If viewers don’t agree with HU reviews then they should be the ones telling HU. Not Nvidia.

Just like when MSI tries to do the same to Gamers Nexus.



Stuff like this makes me want to avoid buying Nvidia products.
Been trying to decide between a 6800XT and a 3080 and this is pushing me towards AMD. Although it’s much easier to find/buy a 3080...

Get inferior product for your own money in name of some internet justice?

 

[Ascend]

They also happen to be the (1) of (2) site from out of (17) that favors 6800 XT at 1440p, but not only a possible error, they have the lowest average for the 3080. (again a narrative we keep hearing since the beginning that the 6800 XT is better at rasterization at lower resolutions, it's statistically not)

How many other reviewers use Ryzen CPUs as their benchmarking system?

 

[londontko]

It's not free hardware when you get in return marketing of a much higher value than the cost of your GPU.

Nvidia singling out one specific channel is bullying, why don't they get the balls and don't send out their cards to anyone? Oh yeah because it wouldn't be a smart business move would it now.

Well if everyone reviewed their cards unfairly then it wouldn't benefit them much to send them out now would it? Nvidia can take fair criticism, they've proven that, this one reviewer seems to take on a biased slant for whatever reason and got what he deserved.

 

[londontko]

No, but when you spend $10,000 or $20,000 worth of equipment for these YouTubers and get in return 100K-200k in the marketing of course it matters.

You're pulling those #'s out of your ass... How much does a negative review impact them financially? It's a two-way street.

 

[londontko]

It really is surprising to see these takes. No, no company is obliged to provide review units (and in turn revenue) to platforms. They also shouldn't be dictating the editorial direction of a platform and directly tying access to it. They could have just said "As your platform is not focused on RTX functionality we have suspended blah blah blah." To say "cover RTX or else" puts a strongarm bent to the ask.

When did they say 'cover RTX or else'? In reality Nvidia's response was much closer to your first example... Did you even read it?

 

[londontko]

No it's not a false equivalency. You're dodging the issue. You said multiple times that nVidia is not obligated to provide them with review samples. Fine. And you also admitted that nVidia is not entitled to get free marketing from their reviewers that get samples from them. Also fine.

It's quite obvious that nVidia wants them to market RT for them. You basically are admitting this fact in this very reply of yours, because you are talking about "fair criteria" but think that nVidia should be able to dictate those criteria.

It doesn't work that way. Either you think nVidia is entitled to free marketing from their reviewers, or you think nVidia withholding cards for reviewers to talk about what nVidia wants is wrong. You can't have it both ways.

It's not even the first time that happened;

We are going around in circles with this argument and I don't think it's getting any clearer.

I just want hardware unboxed to let me determine if I think Ray Tracing and DLSS are worthy editions on their own merits and to show me the data, I can make my own decision. I don't want everything 'equalized' with AMD because the reviewer thinks that 'not enough games use it to matter' or 'it's too taxing to be worthwhile'.

I also think that Nvidia is under no obligation to continue to provide free hardware if they feel it is of no benefit to them or they are being treated unfairly.

Where is the controversy in those statements?

Also, have you given any thought to why HU is being singled out? Do you think there is any merit to the criticism or are you somehow on board with their logic?

 

[Irobot82]

I just want hardware unboxed to let me determine if I think Ray Tracing and DLSS are worthy editions on their own merits and to show me the data, I can make my own decision. I don't want everything 'equalized' with AMD because the reviewer thinks that 'not enough games use it to matter' or 'it's too taxing to be worthwhile'.

I also think that Nvidia is under no obligation to continue to provide free hardware if they feel it is of no benefit to them or they are being treated unfairly.

Where is the controversy in those statements?

Also, have you given any thought to why HU is being singled out? Do you think there is any merit to the criticism or are you somehow on board with their logic?

They literally show the data. In like 4 or 5 games and DLSS data. Soooo.....I'm starting to think you didn't actually watch any of their reviews and are just spouting fanboy BS.

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

We are going around in circles with this argument and I don't think it's getting any clearer.

I just want hardware unboxed to let me determine if I think Ray Tracing and DLSS are worthy editions on their own merits and to show me the data, I can make my own decision. I don't want everything 'equalized' with AMD because the reviewer thinks that 'not enough games use it to matter' or 'it's too taxing to be worthwhile'.

I also think that Nvidia is under no obligation to continue to provide free hardware if they feel it is of no benefit to them or they are being treated unfairly.

Where is the controversy in those statements?

Also, have you given any thought to why HU is being singled out? Do you think there is any merit to the criticism or are you somehow on board with their logic?

Dear ignorant gamer,

No. You must believe what I believe and want what I want. I know your own gaming preferences better than you do.

Also, help me because Nvidia is being mean to me btw.

Yours truly,
Steve from Hardware Unboxed

P.S.: Have I told you that RTX is shit today? RTX is shit.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

You're pulling those #'s out of your ass... How much does a negative review impact them financially? It's a two-way street.

Have you watched any of HU's 30xx coverage? I wouldn't call any of it "negative", it's just not exactly what NVIDIA wants. Also of note...NVIDIA didn't care that HU focused on rasterization during the 20xx launch...or the 30xx launch. Curiously they only started caring...just after the 6900XT launched, really makes you think...

 

[smbu2000]

Get inferior product for your own money in name of some internet justice?

6800xt and the 3080 trade blows depending on the game. If you don’t care about RT (I never bothered with RT on my old 2080Ti) then it comes down to other factors such as RAM 16GB vs 10GB (+AMD) and price (+AMD). The 3080 has less RAM than my old 2080Ti. Plus slight bonus performance combined with Ryzen 5000.

Unless you’re an Nvidia fanboy or are all in on RT, then go with what works best. I’ve used AMD cards, Nvidia cards, ATi cards, 3dfx cards, S3 cards, Matrox cards. I use what works best for me.

 

[DESTROYA]

I sort of don’t blame nvidia on this , I unsubscribed from HU weeks ago after noticing reviews were
missing some important things like RTX tests and others.

 

[londontko]

They literally show the data. In like 4 or 5 games and DLSS data. Soooo.....I'm starting to think you didn't actually watch any of their reviews and are just spouting fanboy BS.

Let's say you're right, what's Nvidia's beef then? Are they just creating drama for the sake of it?

 

[Irobot82]

Let's say you're right, what's Nvidia's beef then? Are they just creating drama for the sake of it?

Nvidia? I'm willing to bet it's some marketing guy who just decided to be a dick. Shit will get solved and everything will go back to normal?

I also take it you don't watch Tech Jesus much either? Because he's had several issues with case manufactures and GPU AIB's doing the same thing. You remember when he slammed XFX for their shitty Fat BOIZ shroud? Sometimes people who work for a company get bent out of shape when they don't get exactly what they want.

Edit: I also remember Tech Jesus and HU coming to the defense of a small time tech reviewer because some company was pressuring them to change their review to be more favorable too. Happened a year or so ago maybe.

 

[HTK]

I sort of don’t blame nvidia on this , I unsubscribed from HU weeks ago after noticing reviews were
missing some important things like RTX tests and others.

See as I said earlier, HU should be judged by their audience, not Nvidia.

 

[Ascend]

We are going around in circles with this argument and I don't think it's getting any clearer.

I just want hardware unboxed to let me determine if I think Ray Tracing and DLSS are worthy editions on their own merits and to show me the data, I can make my own decision. I don't want everything 'equalized' with AMD because the reviewer thinks that 'not enough games use it to matter' or 'it's too taxing to be worthwhile'.

We're not going in circles, because this reply was not part of our conversation. You just shifted the goal post from what HU and nVidia have and don't have a right to, to you now suddenly wanting to make your own decisions, i.e. saying what HU did was wrong.
Indeed it won't be getting any clearer, because an honest discussion is impossible.

I also think that Nvidia is under no obligation to continue to provide free hardware if they feel it is of no benefit to them or they are being treated unfairly.

Where is the controversy in those statements?

Also, have you given any thought to why HU is being singled out? Do you think there is any merit to the criticism or are you somehow on board with their logic?

The controversy is in the fact that you refuse to answer the most obvious question that requires a simple yes or no answer;
nVidia wanting an editorial direction change in order for Hardware Unboxed to receive these cards again in the future, does not strike you at all as nVidia extorting free marketing from their reviewers....?

Yes or no. That is all that matters. The rest is distractions.

No. You must believe what I believe and want what I want. I know your gaming preferences better than you do.

If anyone honestly says that they want to buy a $700 - $1500 GPU so they can turn on RT and have either 30fps at native 4K or 60fps at native 1080p, they are either nVidia fanboys or delusional.

 

[Ascend]

If I were Hardware Unboxed I would literally troll nVidia at this point. I would buy the RTX card they didn't send me myself , and then do ONLY RT benchmarks, but not any games.

 

[londontko]

Nvidia? I'm willing to bet it's some marketing guy who just decided to be a dick. Shit will get solved and everything will go back to normal?

I also take it you don't watch Tech Jesus much either? Because he's had several issues with case manufactures and GPU AIB's doing the same thing. You remember when he slammed XFX for their shitty Fat BOIZ shroud? Sometimes people who work for a company get bent out of shape when they don't get exactly what they want.

I think you're completely right on that, I bet this blows over by the next GPU launch and things will go back to normal.

I watch GN and I find him to be pretty fair with his criticisms, it's usually bad design and he's pretty consistent with how he dispenses it. This kinda illustrates my point, how come no other tech youtubers decided rasterization was an appropriate tool to measure Nvidia against?

 

[DESTROYA]

See as I said earlier, HU should be judged by their audience, not Nvidia.

OK but still big reviewers should still buy there own things to test if they want to do it reviews
“ there way “.
Being a paid shill is just as stupid of purposely not reviewing all of a products available features.
Who is HU to say what’s important to review for potential customers?

 

[ANDS]

When did they say 'cover RTX or else'? In reality Nvidia's response was much closer to your first example... Did you even read it?

You're right. What they said was ". . .we will revisit this decision should your editorial decision change." Completely different.

. . .I mean seriously? As do what the difference: the first example is simply telling a platform that it does not look like they have a need for review units given the focus of their content, the latter is telling a platform in no uncertain terms what editorial changes they must make to receive access.

If you need further help to see the fine distinction (and the entire issue) do not hesitate to followup with another snarky post.

 

[Ascend]

Being a paid shill is just as stupid of purposely not reviewing all of a products available features.

When was the last time people tested AMD's card's power consumption with Radeon Chill...?

 

[londontko]

We're not going in circles, because this reply was not part of our conversation. You just shifted the goal post from what HU and nVidia have and don't have a right to, to you now suddenly wanting to make your own decisions, i.e. saying what HU did was wrong.
Indeed it won't be getting any clearer, because an honest discussion is impossible.


The controversy is in the fact that you refuse to answer the most obvious question that requires a simple yes or no answer;
nVidia wanting an editorial direction change in order for Hardware Unboxed to receive these cards again in the future, does not strike you at all as nVidia extorting free marketing from their reviewers....?

Yes or no. That is all that matters. The rest is distractions.


If anyone honestly says that they want to buy a $700 - $1500 GPU so they can turn on RT and have either 30fps at native 4K or 60fps at native 1080p, they are either nVidia fanboys or delusional.

Yes, I believe that Nvidia wanting an editorial change in order for HU to keep receiving free product is perfectly fine. If they don't want editorial dictated to them they are free to buy product on their own and review it however they want.

Good enough?

 

[DESTROYA]

When was the last time people tested AMD's card's power consumption with Radeon Chill...?

Have no idea?

 

[Ascend]

Yes, I believe that Nvidia wanting an editorial change in order for HU to keep receiving free product is perfectly fine. If they don't want editorial dictated to them they are free to buy product on their own and review it however they want.

Good enough?

Ok. I guess that's clear.

I can now freely label you an enemy of the gaming industry.

Have no idea?

Exactly... Features are omitted all the time...

 

[Irobot82]

I think you're completely right on that, I bet this blows over by the next GPU launch and things will go back to normal.

I watch GN and I find him to be pretty fair with his criticisms, it's usually bad design and he's pretty consistent with how he dispenses it. This kinda illustrates my point, how come no other tech youtubers decided rasterization was an appropriate tool to measure Nvidia against?

Gamers Nexus did. He pretty much says the same thing as HU right now. It's "neat" but not essential.

The worst part of all this is we are all bickering what these guys get/don't get and none of us can actually get any AMD/Nvidia GPU. .

My 1080 is hurting in Cyberpunk.

 

[londontko]

You're right. What they said was ". . .we will revisit this decision should your editorial decision change." Completely different.

. . .I mean seriously? As do what the difference: the first example is simply telling a platform that it does not look like they have a need for review units given the focus of their content, the latter is telling a platform in no uncertain terms what editorial changes they must make to receive access.

If you need further help to see the fine distinction (and the entire issue) do not hesitate to followup with another snarky post.

Basically they're asking them to review it the same as every other outlet, HU are the ones who decided they wanted to judge it by their own standard and Nvidia didn't like it, I wouldn't either - so where is the problem with that?

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

Gamers Nexus did. He pretty much says the same thing as HU right now. It's "neat" but not essential.

The worst part of all this is we are all bickering what these guys get/don't get and none of us can actually get any AMD/Nvidia GPU. .

My 1080 is hurting in Cyberpunk.

Gamers nexus actually puts effort into benchmarking ray-tracing.

 

[londontko]

Gamers Nexus did. He pretty much says the same thing as HU right now. It's "neat" but not essential.

The worst part of all this is we are all bickering what these guys get/don't get and none of us can actually get any AMD/Nvidia GPU. .

My 1080 is hurting in Cyberpunk.

All of them said that! The difference is that HU decided to go one further and equalize testing in AMD's favor. There's a reason they are the only ones getting this treatment.

 

[Irobot82]

Basically they're asking them to review it the same as every other outlet, HU are the ones who decided they wanted to judge it by their own standard and Nvidia didn't like it, I wouldn't either - so where is the problem with that?

Because Nvidia is dictating terms means nobody can be unbiased. Also, it's not like HU didn't cover RT and DLSS, they've covered it multiple times. It just want their main section because again 99% of games currently don't have it.

 

[londontko]

Ok. I guess that's clear.

I can now freely label you an enemy of the gaming industry.


Exactly... Features are omitted all the time...

lol

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

Who is HU to say what’s important to review for potential customers?

They didn't assert anything on the topic. Their viewers have repeatedly and consistently stated that they, by and large, find rasterization performance a more important metric. Why *wouldn't* HU cater to what their audience wants?

 

[HTK]

OK but still big reviewers should still buy there own things to test if they want to do it reviews
“ there way “.
Being a paid shill is just as stupid of purposely not reviewing all of a products available features.
Who is HU to say what’s important to review for potential customers?

The last time I checked people go to their channel, they don't come to you. So if you don't like their methods, don't subscribe and don't watch.

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

They didn't assert anything on the topic. Their viewers have repeatedly and consistently stated that they, by and large, find rasterization performance a more important metric. Why *wouldn't* HU cater to what their audience wants?

That’s how you create bubbles. You’ll get pro-AMD reviewers and pro-Nvidia reviewers over time.

Please tell me only what I want to hear and don’t tell me what I don’t want to hear cause it’s gonna make me feel bad.

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

The last time I checked people go to their channel, they don't come to you. So if you don't like their methods, don't subscribe and don't watch.

There it is. Argument by authority. The authoritarians are out and about.

 

[Irobot82]

That’s how you create bubbles. You’ll get pro-AMD reviewers and pro-Nvidia reviewers over time.

Except they recommend both Nvidia and AMD depending on the situation. So there's that....

 

[cebri.one]

edit: prefer not to enter in arguments about this topic, not worth it.

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

Except they recommend both Nvidia and AMD depending on the situation. So there's that....

What if their audience want to hear them recommend AMD and not recommend Nvidia?

“Why wouldn’t HU cater to their audience.”

 

[Irobot82]

Zen and Zen 2 have worse results in gaming than Intel? "But they have the better value, because fps/price"

AMD janks up the price of Zen 3 making its value worse than current Intel offerings? .. ... .. "OMG but ZEN3 crushes intel, the price is fair"

Their double standards are well known.

Checks notes.... oh look Tech Jesus and HU both had 3600 best overall gaming PC and 5600X best overall gaming PC....weird. More people must be biased towards AMD now...

 

[Buggy Loop]

6800xt and the 3080 trade blows depending on the game. If you don’t care about RT (I never bothered with RT on my old 2080Ti) then it comes down to other factors such as RAM 16GB vs 10GB (+AMD) and price (+AMD). The 3080 has less RAM than my old 2080Ti. Plus slight bonus performance combined with Ryzen 5000.

Unless you’re an Nvidia fanboy or are all in on RT, then go with what works best. I’ve used AMD cards, Nvidia cards, ATi cards, 3dfx cards, S3 cards, Matrox cards. I use what works best for me.

add AMD sponsered : Horizon zero dawn, Gears 5, Assassin's creed Valhalla, Resident evil 3, World War Z