VFXVeteran
Banned
I'm speaking about the CPU/GPU RAM split. I'd much rather prefer to have the OS in a separate memory pool so I don't go querying memory addresses that are locked by a dynamic OS. It's just another thing I won't have to worry about.
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I'm speaking about the CPU/GPU RAM split. I'd much rather prefer to have the OS in a separate memory pool so I don't go querying memory addresses that are locked by a dynamic OS. It's just another thing I won't have to worry about.
VFXVeteran
Banned
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thurnishaleygw
Member
VFXVeteran
Nah, mate, arrogance. Just a page ago mentioning how the thread gets closed because Sony guys attack you and that is what gets on the mods' nerves. But of course, I guess now, for the third time, someone is derailing this thread being all over you and all that good stuff.
Look, I value your input as someone who has worked in the film industry (I'm a huge film nerd), but that and knowing that guy or that other guy doesn't put you in any kind of pedestal as far as I'm concerned. You can very well behave yourself and talk to others in whatever manner you see fit, but that's not the first time someone has pointed out you coming as arrogant or condescending, and I have to agree that you can come across as such a person. I don't say you are, because I don't know you personally and pretending to say how whomever is based on what we write here is pretty pointless, but you can definitely come across as that here.
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FranXico
Member
VFXVeteran
Banned
Some of us actually enjoy this thread and we don't want it to derail. The last time this thread got locked
See how what I stated was fact but you thought that me mentioning me was arrogant? That's the lost in translation.
That may seem to be the case, but I think it's more about people already having "hate" for me not endorsing their beliefs. But I can accept that comment.. if we are all going to be fair though - can we also admit that a lot of the Sony gamers are also arrogant and come off very childish? That is the reason I was frustrated coming in here earlier today.
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T
Three Jackdaws
Unconfirmed Member
HeisenbergFX4
was curious to get your opinion on this. I personally think we’ll only see a God of War sequel teaser if Sony feels the need to do so. As a counter-punch IF Microsoft decide to reveal a major first party game in the next month or so or maybe just a big announcement. If not would it be possible that Sony would save such a card for much later?
KURDISTAN YPG
Member
So fellas, if it was up to you
would you gonfor raw 12 TF like microoft is doing?
or
Better i/o / little less TF
im asking this from my ignorance in tachnology
would you gonfor raw 12 TF like microoft is doing?
or
Better i/o / little less TF
im asking this from my ignorance in tachnology
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Zheph
Member
PS5 all daySo fellas, if it was up to you
would you gonfor raw 12 TF like microoft is doing?
or
Better i/o / little less TF
im asking this from my ignorance in tachnology
VFXVeteran
Banned
So fellas, if it was up to you
would you gonfor raw 12 TF like microoft is doing?
or
Better i/o / little less TF
im asking this from my ignorance in tachnolivy
Hard question. The difference may be too small to matter really. At this point, I'd just go with the one with the best exclusives for now.... PS5. If the XSX can get some good exclusives under it's belt, it might be worth reevaluating later. But that 2TFLOPS would have to be a meaningful difference in 3rd party games (i.e. native 4k vs. 1440p).
Red_Driver85
Member
In your case, this may be true, but my simple question about the separation of memory pools to a person who deals with games for PC and consoles, he answered simply: "the split is shit".
VFXVeteran
Banned
I can see that being the case but then.. more memory for the VRAM. If I have 16G of CPU and 11G VRAM.. in order to have a very cohesive graphics pipeline is to have CPU + GPU = 27G VRAM. I would much rather have 16G of CPU + 11G of VRAM than just 14G of VRAM (i.e. removed 2G for OS). That's assuming I'm making a game specifically for this particular hardware. I get that the transfer from CPU->GPU could be a pain in the butt, but I also don't like sharing game code with my VRAM memory pool. It's preference.
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thurnishaleygw
Member
No, you seem to be wanting it to be lost in translation. The fact that you said because it's you who gets attacked, that is what gets on the mods' nerves. The thread would have been closed over that hounding being about you or me. It's the action, not the protagonist, that's what I mean. But if you don't see it that way, hey, it's perfectly fine, agree to disagree.
And of course there are arrogant and childish Sony gamers, that is simply undeniable. Same happens with Xbox gamers, with PC gamers and with Nintendo gamers. People tend to be, in my personal experience, pretty petty and childish, so it's only logical that it extrapolates to gaming and its subdivisions. And yeah, obviously in this thread there's an ample majority of Sony gamers, or gamers who have a preference for Sony (I am perfectly fine with admitting that, while I game on every platform, I am one of them, I cherish a lot of Sony exclusives), and that's why sometimes the conversation gets pretty one-sided, to put it mildly. You won't find me denying facts, at all.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
yeah, i put him on ignore after the last time. and its been a much better experience browsing the forum. its really not worth engaging with certain folks.
Red_Driver85
Member
How do you have a difference of 2TFlops turns into 3820x2160 and 2560x1440? Based on linear regression and I got something like an 8% difference, because the PS5 has more cache fillrate, triangles installation, and less overhead due to fewer blocks in the chip.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Its' a guess. I don't know if that will be the case. That's why it would have to be something dramatic which I don't think it will be as I have said.
SgtCaffran
Member
I know you are a facts guy and I can appreciate that. So I understand how you are tying negative comments towards you to facts. For example, if you started a derail yes or no, if you lied about something yes or no.
But I think you should understand that it's not about facts. It's about how you come across. And you are right, you already have a reputation here from past conversations. And whether you like it or not, whether you think it's fair or not. Your reputation isn't so good.
So you have two options, the way I see it.
Option one: Ignore the negativity, just let everything that's not worth it go past you, even if you disagree or think it's unfair. Then contribute to this thread in a positive way, think about how things comes across, maybe just keep PC talk out of it for example. Maybe keep the post frequency down as well.
Option two: Continue as you have done in the past. Respond to each claim and comment. Derail the thread and get blamed for it again (even if you didn't start it, you participated in it). Get flak, cycle continues. Your choice.
Unless one of the console manufacturers decided to create an I/O solution with such high throughput and low latency that it allows for on the fly loading of asse.... Wait a minute!
Red_Driver85
Member
That's why consoles needed fast SSDs and i/o in the first place. Everything will become easier and faster in development cycles.
xacto
Member
Your effort is commendable.
Red_Driver85
Member
Ok, np then.
Games Dean
Member
Sony's architecture and the ideology behind it is certainly far more interesting. It remains to be seen whether or not the implementations that they made will have the effect on game design that they hope it does. Basically, from an architectural design standpoint, the PS5's bet is that devs will be able to create experiences we never thought possible. I'm excited to see for myself.So fellas, if it was up to you
would you gonfor raw 12 TF like microoft is doing?
or
Better i/o / little less TF
im asking this from my ignorance in tachnology
VFXVeteran
Banned
A lot of people come across in various ways. I'm OK with that. People have a right to have a personality. I've accepted alot of how people make snarky comments both Xbox, PC and Sony guys. It shouldn't be a crime that my personality and the way I react to people who are aggressive towards me or other puts a label on me as how I come across. I think that's asking too much of me. I've accepted P psorcerer and
geordiemp
personalities and have no problem with them - both Sony fans. Hell, and we still clown each other but not with personal attacks.Can we be clear, my reputation isn't good with hardcore Sony gamers. Not true with everyone else. That tells a story.
Life isn't that simple. Nor are decisions. But I understand your stance and appreciate the feedback.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
But that's not everything that goes on in that memory. There is a shit ton of texture lookups, rasterization and shader calls. Creation of temp buffers, image processing and then comp operations. The entire graphics pipeline isn't completely hindered by latency of loading assets.
For example, I'm at a pixel within a triangle and I'm about to cast a ray to proxy geometry bounding boxes to test for intersection. Once a ray is fire, the proxy has to be loaded but then I have to traverse my BVH. I have to then run my pixel shader on the triangle that's been hit. I'm spending a shit ton of time trying to get the correct pixel color out to the screen at that point.
xacto
Member
I think we've been into "too late" territory for both companies for a while now...
Red_Driver85
Member
Microsoooon and Soooony
T
Three Jackdaws
Unconfirmed Member
Well if rumours are right that Sony is waiting on Microsoft then we may be in this for a while because judging by Microsoft’s events as well as lack of gameplay and reveals + other things means there might be a real shitshow behind the scenes lolMicrosoooon and Soooony
TBiddy
Member
I love how some of the regular warriors are accusing
VFXVeteran
of destroying the thread.. this thread turned from Speculation to "LOL, let's all post poor memes and cherrypicked comparisons, that favor Sony". Shit, there's even a lot of current-gen news, for some reason. It's a thread for chit-chat, these days. Hard to ruin it anymore than it already is.
VFXVeteran
of destroying the thread.. this thread turned from Speculation to "LOL, let's all post poor memes and cherrypicked comparisons, that favor Sony". Shit, there's even a lot of current-gen news, for some reason. It's a thread for chit-chat, these days. Hard to ruin it anymore than it already is.
Metroiddarks
Member
Mr. PlayStation
Member
Lets get this thread back on PS5 and Series X discussion. Why are we constantly derailing and treading on PC related chit chatter?
Vroadstar
Member
You're very appreciated here man and you definitely don't come off as arrogant or condescending
Zheph
Member
AMD seems pretty confident (you can see their SVP tweets) about competing with RTX3K, it's looking good for RDNA 2 (on both consoles) and we should be able to see more right about... now ?!
They are presenting the cards or whatever in Fortnite?
They are presenting the cards or whatever in Fortnite?
geordiemp
Member
Nvidia have gone with information and disclosure.
AMD are next IMO and we will get proper details on RDNA2
Sony and mS cant do a detailed proper teardown until AMD lifts the RDNA2 shroud, and no hotchips MS could not asnwer quite a few questions in the Q&A, and ommitted information such as L1 cache size of GPU etc, so much detail was skipped.
So the hardware reveal details is stalled, and software wise the longer devs have to complete the easier it is for them to show stuff.
I think people are overthinking this, my guess is AMD will lower the drawbridge and then all will flood out. Sony cant do a detailed teardown without AMD agreement on details.
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3liteDragon
Member
Well MS was banking on Halo Infinite when it came to their first-party launch lineup, until that was showcased and got delayed to 2021 after the backlash, now they have no first-party game for launch and playing BC games then became the main selling point for their next-gen console. On the other hand, Sony has SM:MM slated for a Holiday 2020 release (so it would be safe to assume they have gameplay ready to show), R&C's confirmed to be a "launch window" game (which we've recently seen gameplay for running on PS5), now we're seeing the Demon's Souls remake go through the certification process meaning there's a good chance that's gonna be a launch title as well (again, we're most likely gonna be seeing gameplay for this too). Horizon Forbidden West's a 2021 game (not early 2021) so I don't see why they wouldn't show off a little bit of gameplay for that as well, there's been RUMORS lately that they still haven't unveiled 1 or 2 more PS5 launch games yet, whether that's true or not only time will tell. So to me it looks like Sony's more prepared for next-gen than MS is at the moment, and everything they've shown off so far has been captured on PS5 while MS' May and July showcase featured either in-engine or CGI trailers, nothing running on the Series X was shown during these showcases.
As for the ongoing price war between both companies, I personally don't think there's a chance PS5's price is anywhere above $500 (for the disc version) because of how much they saved on by going with a 36 CU GPU most likely resulting in a smaller die size and less transistors per CU. That's why PS5 has features like 802.11ax (Wi-Fi 6) and a unified RAM pool (less bandwidth per CU required, so lower-clocked memory chips), their cooling solution patent seems to suggest 3D stacking could be used which would be cost-efficient if true. Even when talking about the cooling solution, Cerny mentioned that their goal was to build a "cost-effective and high-performance" solution. The reason I think they're waiting on MS to go first is because they probably have an idea on how much Series X is gonna cost judging by the specs (I'M SURE both companies knew each other's specs way before they were officially revealed) and maybe they know it's gonna be more expensive than PS5 so they're expecting MS to reveal a $599 Series X only to counter it with a $499 PS5 (disc version). And then there's the unannounced Xbox Series S which is rumored to come in at $299 so I'm intrigued to see how that plays into all this, I also first thought $599 for Series X despite the high APU cost would never happen but after that Hot Chips presentation from MS, I do think that's gonna be the final RRP (maybe $550 at best if they decide to take a bigger loss per unit sold). Mixed memory pool, not upgrading to Wi-Fi 6 are cost-saving measures made by MS to save as much as possible, I really wouldn't be surprised at this point if this price war lasts until late-October even.
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danielJackson
Banned
I love how some of the regular warriors are accusing
It could partly be about "US vs rest of the world" perspective bias
As in when people make ridiculous claims that xsex have a chance to "win" next gen and "10 > 12" is a big deal, non-US people just find it to be trolling/stupid/annoying/unrealistic
And when people make ridiculous claims that PS5 wins 99% sure, ssd+custom tech is cool = same deal.
And both can be true, depending from standpoint
To non-US people xbox really havent been nothing else than sour loser of every gen, small and weak competitor meanwhile most console gamers have Playstation and so on. Like 80% vs 20% situation. And Sony+Microsoft are both foreing companies for all other places than Japan. And Microsoft doesnt have as interesting reputation as Sony does. + For some reason Japanese companies are respected and liked on many areas.
To US people it is more like 50/50 situation so they really believe that there is some kind of competition, because on their country xbox is much more popular + US people have different culture of being super patriotic. And Sony is "bad foreing companty" to them, I guess, so it is easier to defend domestic company. And US have this "imports are shit" attitude for cars/other stuff so maybe it is partly that too.
So being from US vs being non-US gamer makes viewpoint so different that people whom dont understand this, continue to rage to each other as they are so sure about being right. While they are maybe right only for part of the world.
Looking at the whole global situation, PS5 is most likely easy winner no matter what, and I guess that is a hard pill to swallow
Vae_Victis
Banned
This might be true for information on the technical side of things, but it has no bearing on price, pre-orders, release date, launch lineup etc. If the only thing holding them back was an NDA with AMD, everything else would have just been business as usual for a console launch.
I think the big factor stalling everything right now is the situation in the US, for the combination of covid, economic crisis and political unrest in view of the elections. Come November the situation could be relatively normal everything considered (like now), or there could be literal civil war in the streets as the next covid wave hits the large cities.
I think the debate internally at both Sony and Microsoft is for evaluating the pros and cons of launching as soon as possible vs launching when they have more certainty that stores won't be in lockdown or being looted by this or that belligerant faction among civil unrest.
Setsuna Mudou
Member
lol dude, come on... so the new iphone or whatever popular electronic device won't release as well because "loot"? That's the most outlandish take I read here all week, and that's no easy feat, I'll tell you that much
Emmy
Neo Member
Yeah, Seriously. Can we stop discussing PC in this thread? I know people like to compare things between them, but closed platforms and open platforms are NOT comparable much. Some yet to understand that developers approach consoles/PC differently, and that console specs are not the most important factor in the grand scheme of things. Even more, people are not buying consoles solely for their power, but just to play games on them. Personally, I have never bought a console because of its paper specs and have no intention of doing so in the future.A CONSOLE's thread... with pages of PC content.
bhunachicken
Member
Guys, if you have issues with users such as VFXVeteran, just do as I did and shove the guy on ignore and move on. Not seen a single post from him since I did that. I can see why he was ultimately banned from Restera.
Back on topic: I'm 100% certain we'll see final info from Sony this week on price and release date of the PS5.
Back on topic: I'm 100% certain we'll see final info from Sony this week on price and release date of the PS5.
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Mr. PlayStation
Member
I hope your words turn out to be true. I just beat RE7 for the first time, played it on PS4 Pro. Good god what a stellar survival horror game. I can't wait for Re8 village on PS5. Also it's been a slow few weeks with no enticing info on PS5. Hope Sony starts to say something concrete about PS5 this week.
LiquidRex
Member
With regards the difference in Tflops between the XSX and PS5, could a comparable be given by doing the follow...
Have two identical Graphics cards, underclock one and overclock the other so there's a 2tflops difference... Compare the Resolution and fps of both cards, and calculate the % difference, this will give you a rough idea of what 2tflops will mean for next gen consoles.
I say this a rough estimate... Obviously console architectures are completely different than PC.
Have two identical Graphics cards, underclock one and overclock the other so there's a 2tflops difference... Compare the Resolution and fps of both cards, and calculate the % difference, this will give you a rough idea of what 2tflops will mean for next gen consoles.
I say this a rough estimate... Obviously console architectures are completely different than PC.
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GianEnemyCrab
Neo Member
This seems to be the most logical reason, but on the other hand if the news that Sony ramped up production are true and that MS has starte manufacturing for the XSX in May this means that they have a shit ton of stock waitting to be dispatched to stores, also the signals they've been giving so far point towards a november launch.
The problem they face in my opinion is that a launch in november or next year both carry quite some risk.
First off the launch in november, as you pointed out can be negatively impacted by the sitaution in the US, which is their biggest market after all.
Second a delayed launch somewhere in the begining of next year could also be risky given that they can lose the marketing momentum they have now, give time to their competitor to make a counter-move (e.g exclusivity deal, surprise anouncement, etc.) and also usually in the first half of the year people still "recover" financialy from the holidays, combine this with another pandemic spike and possible lockdowns and you could end up with some bleak sales number for both PS and XSX.
From my limited business perspective, If I were Sony I would hit the gas and launch the thing this year, and not because the internetz is screaming for it, but a launch this year could still capitalize the wave of good plubicity that they have now, COVID is somewhat at a steady level, shops are still open and the economic situation has picked up a tiny bit. Plus PS4 is still going strong and this combined with the spike in sales specific to the Christmas period in the rest of the world might offset any loses the will inccur due to the current social climate in the US.
Emmy
Neo Member
MS showed their console first in December. Why shouldn't they be the first to tell the price too? They don't really care how many consoles they sell... Are they afraid of something? They think it's all about the price of things? Where is XSS? And why are they sure that 2 SKU with a big difference in the GPU are the best strategy for the next generation?
LiquidRex
Member
With regards the difference in Tflops between the XSX and PS5, could a comparable be given by doing the follow...
Have two identical Graphics cards, underclock one and overclock the other so there's a 2tflops difference... Compare the Resolution and fps of both cards, and calculate the % difference, this will give you a rough idea of what 2tflops will mean for next gen consoles.
I say this a rough estimate... Obviously console architectures are completely different than PC.
I mean will a 2tflops difference result in one console can run Native 4k at 60fps, and the other run Dynamic 4k at 60fps
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Zheph
Member
I find this baffling too, their silence is much worst than Sony despite the expectations being completely different for both consoles and thus driving a different narrative.
Zheph
Member
the gap between those consoles is much bigger than XSX/PS5
LiquidRex
Member
So is it safe to say with regards RDNA 2 we've seen all there is to see with the XSX architecture
SaucyJack
Member
The difference being that Office 365 is their offering in a market that they completely dominate.
And guess what, as a consumer I’m worse off after the transition to Office 365.
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