Sinthor
Gold Member
See, that's what I thought. I thought Cerny had said that and then clarified that was an addition. I think the 'replacement' speculation has just been salt. But in any case, good to know I'm not crazy!
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See, that's what I thought. I thought Cerny had said that and then clarified that was an addition. I think the 'replacement' speculation has just been salt. But in any case, good to know I'm not crazy!
VFXVeteran
Banned
I think we were all inaccurate at some point or another. And admit it too. I think it's deeper than that. But we can discuss through PM. Don't want to derail.
MasterCornholio
Member
I think it was around 45FPs most of the time. So the game should run locked on the PS5.
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
Any thread that
VFXVeteran
enters, you guys throw the constant keywords of "ego" and "FUD". Imagine how it much be to be an insider, and the public does nothing but berate you because of your personal knowledge and the connections you have in the industry?
So what if he prefers PC to consoles? It's not for fanboy reasoning like 99.99% of you guys do. It's because he's worked in the industry with cgi, on several movies that each and everyone of you guys have seen, at least one time. He's transferred plenty of that knowledge and experience to video games. He obviously knows his shit, but gets stoned to death as soon as people don't like what he has to say.
Here's the kicker, you may think I'm shilling for him, since I primarily play on PC, but that has nothing to do with it at all. Replace his name and a few key points, with any other insider. And you'll see why so many insiders have left the board or refuse to tell you guys shit. Because most of you guys have warrior mentality, and can't have a debate without restoring to personal attacks.
If you don't like the guy, just block him. No point in bitching and crying to the moon, to try and discredit them, or get everyone on board to do the same. This applies for any insider or user. Grow up people, smfh.
VFXVeteran
enters, you guys throw the constant keywords of "ego" and "FUD". Imagine how it much be to be an insider, and the public does nothing but berate you because of your personal knowledge and the connections you have in the industry? So what if he prefers PC to consoles? It's not for fanboy reasoning like 99.99% of you guys do. It's because he's worked in the industry with cgi, on several movies that each and everyone of you guys have seen, at least one time. He's transferred plenty of that knowledge and experience to video games. He obviously knows his shit, but gets stoned to death as soon as people don't like what he has to say.
Here's the kicker, you may think I'm shilling for him, since I primarily play on PC, but that has nothing to do with it at all. Replace his name and a few key points, with any other insider. And you'll see why so many insiders have left the board or refuse to tell you guys shit. Because most of you guys have warrior mentality, and can't have a debate without restoring to personal attacks.
If you don't like the guy, just block him. No point in bitching and crying to the moon, to try and discredit them, or get everyone on board to do the same. This applies for any insider or user. Grow up people, smfh.
Randy Randerson
Member
Yup that would make sense. I preferred the resolution mode there because of the more stable frame rate (even if 30). It’s just such a beautiful game
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MasterCornholio
Member
Well I did the same. Performance mode didn't feel right to me.
T
Three Jackdaws
Unconfirmed Member
True, the game had a lot of issues, but in my opinion a lot of it was also due to the hardware limitations of the current gen consoles. Texture and Geometry pop in was common, especially when horse riding, load times were also bad especially when re-spawning, in fact I remember the game would blur out during certain cut scenes most likely because the slow HDD data streaming. The game would benefit massively from an ultra-fast SSD.
CPU was also a limiting issue, I remember frame rates on my PS4 used to tank badly in a lot of crowded places, the worst was in some castle in Beuclair in the DLC, the frame rate must have dipped to like 10-15 lol
I'm really curious to see what the studio can pull off with the the capabilities of the next-generation consoles and platforms on a Witcher sequel.
Entroyp
Member
I think I’ve watch the Road to PS5 video like 5 or 6 times already, that’s why I remember what Cerny said. Also, why would the internal drive be replaced? It makes no sense.
DaGwaphics
Member
I definitely get the impression there is a secondary bay. SSD storage is just too expensive to chuck the storage that is included.
Sinthor
Gold Member
Well, I was talking about storage, so particularly SSD storage expansion that Cerny talked about. Obviously, whenever drives that can handle that level of throughput are available which I highly doubt will be the case at launch.
I also think $599 is very possible given all that's happened, but I still think that they will hit $499. We'll see.
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Randy Randerson
Member
Yeah in many ways game design never really changed from the PS3/X360 era to this one. Now that the next gen consoles are coming in with great baseline specs, we should see a leap there.
Reading about the failures of games like ME:Andromeda and Anthem makes me wonder how much of that was down to the consoles’ limitations and needing to build around them. I’m guessing in many ways game development is about to become a lot more fun
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MasterCornholio
Member
I don't think Sony is just plugging in an off the shelf SSD. It uses 12 chips and 12 channels with 6 priority levels with a total size of around 825GBs. I don't think there's any SSD like that on the market. Plus I believe it's soldered into the motherboard just like the main SSD in the XSX. Both systems are handling drive expansion a little bit differently.
Sinthor
Gold Member
Yeah, that's part of why I don't think we'll have such expansion options at launch. The way tech evolves though I'd be surprised if we don't have options within about 12 months of launch.
MasterCornholio
Member
It's unfortunate that it's got to be that way but that's the price of having such a fast I/O system.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
Yea, I wonder if they will have an extra slot for another SSD attached to the motherboard. That way, one could replace both drives with larger ones and have the speeds be equal or higher. The only big problem is going to be the cost. It think we'll be paying the same as any other SSD on a PC.
DaGwaphics
Member
The main SSD in the XSX still looks like a separate PCB, just with a shield around it, the shield looks a bit tall for the chips to be on board. For repair purposes it would be smart for the primary drives to be replaceable (though likely not with end-users in mind).
Sinthor
Gold Member
Yep. I'll take it. At least 800GB usable is just fine. I was just looking at my PS4Pro. I've been buying a lot of digital games lately, but in the past I often deleted games I traded the disks in for. So I figured I was close on my 1TB drive. Nope. Just under 500GB. And I still have a bunch of games installed.
So....if I can move those or download them to a "regular" usb attached HD and run them from there...there's my legacy stuff. Then 800GB for new gen games? FINE. Won't be a problem. I seriously doubt anyone has the NEED to have 10+ AAA next gen games installed at once. I'm sure there are exceptions, but 800GB is close enough to 1TB that it would only make 1-2 games difference anyway. No big deal, IMHO. Plus if I can expand later...that's cake! Would be cool if I could copy those PS4 games onto the internal SSD and get insane speed increases....I'm curious to see if and how that might work. Should start seeing that here within the next 30 days, I'd imagine!
Dave_at_Home
Member
Yeah, it's really bizarre. They've shown only a few games that really don't seem to take full advantage of what the Series X offers. Are they waiting for Sony to show their full hand and announce price and release date? Only then will they show off something special? It's the only thing I can think of and it's nothing more than a far fetched idea. If that's the current plan, than it would look desperate to say the least. At this point, Series X is gonna have a really uninspiring start and will probably lean heavy on value of Game Pass. Which is fine. First-party studios are simply too early in development to show off anything of substance. I'm sure they'll show off something meaningful 2021 E3 time, but that could be a hard pill to swallow for hardcore Xbox fans.
As much as I like to poke fun, the console war fanboy stuff is dumb. Hold on Xbox gamers. Microsoft is trying this time around. At least they got rid of the dipshits that tanked Xbox One potential. If Sony can pull themselves out of the hell they created during the PS3 era, Microsoft can do the same.
Sinthor
Gold Member
Yeah, the way Cerny was talking about it, it was definitely an EXPANSION and not a REPLACEMENT. For costs, I'm assuming that the 825GB SSD is soldered to the board. But you might need an even FASTER spec'd drive to perform equally in an expansion slot, depending on the exact design and architecture, right? So yeah, I'd agree....we'll probably be buying PC module drives to slap into the expansion of the PS5 and I don't expect that ones fast enough will be available for around 12 months or maybe more.
Fine with me, I think the 825GB will do just fine for a year or two...maybe more even given my current usage on PS4. But would be nice to have the OPTION as quickly as possible. I'm betting that those drives will probably cost use $300 or more per TB as well, at least at first...which is pretty high cost when compared to the consoles themselves, even if the consoles launched at $600!
We shall see...
VFXVeteran
Banned
Now that I think about it, a soldered on SSD for the main seems a reality. I keep thinking in terms of a PC which is modular.
The new SSD drives that support 7.5G/s or more are probably going to be available this holiday season. But I would definitely want a 2TB one if I was going to go for it. And maybe a USB plug could be used for a regular 5T external HDD. If the built in one is permanent. Then definitely an expansion would have a slot. I wonder how the IO layout would be though and if it would be far from the one that's on the mb. Hmm...
VFXVeteran
Banned
How about this reality? Maybe both companies don't have enough games to show (in gameplay) and that's why they aren't showing price, games, etc.. I definitely feel like there is something more happening. We had several previews from websites for the PS4/X1X generation. This one seems really really weird.
Sinthor
Gold Member
Well, this IS a bit odd. Look, I don't want to do any console warring and I'm not, but here's my opinion. I don't think it's a matter of capability. The XSX is CLEARLY capable of doing great stuff. I've been saying all along that even simply 'by the numbers' this generation will be the closest yet and WAY closer in power than the current gen was. It took DF videos and screenshots to see the difference with this gen, so WHO CARES. Won't be able to see much if any difference with your eyes. MAYBE the exception there will be first party games for both companies...but we'll have to see.
So again, I don't think not showing anything is a choice by MS, nor is it related to the capability of the new Xbox. Instead...i think MS got bitten by changing their strategy. I believe, that when they sold off most of their developer houses, they were planning to quit the hardware game. Then, a year to two years ago this changed and they started buying 1st party devs again...but those companies couldn't even have good demo footage ready to go by now. Everyone knows it takes at least 3-5 years for these games! So that's why so many of the XSX exclusives from MS don't have dates yet or that people are talking 2022 and 2023.
So that leaves MS where they have to show multiplatform games...which will look pretty much the same as what we've seen from the PS5 so far. This should (oddly) reassure XBOX fans. Because whatever you're seeing shown for PS5, you have reason to expect to see the same level of product on the XSX when it's ready! That's a GOOD THING.
Now, why not a bunch of multiplatform stuff? I think that's twofold. First, with Covid, these developers are behind and are desperately trying to finish games as soon as possible and get as much released in 'Holiday 2020' as possible. That means there's not the resources and time they'd normally have to work up some vertical slice of game demo. They are seriously behind the 8 ball here.
But still...why NOTHING shown yet on XSX hardware? (edit: with the exception of that game shown the other day that was kind of anime style and two characters flying around the planet?) Well, maybe the rumors we've heard of MS working on their decompression software are correct, or maybe other areas are still being worked on. Maybe some part of the technology that makes it harder to show actual XSX code running on XSX hardware? That's wild speculation but another possibility. Maybe it's just as simple as MS got dev kits out later to developers so they are further behind on the XSX versions. That would at least on the surface support my supposition that MS had decided to quit hardware and then changed course again just a couple of years ago.
that's my guesses anyway. But again I would say to Xbox fans....I wouldn't worry about it. These new machines are BEASTS according to all we're hearing and all we've seen so far. You'll have plenty of really cool stuff to play. First from third parties and then in a couple of years (hopefully sooner) first party! You'll be fine!
Dave_at_Home
Member
If Sony is actually doing something September 9th, than I would expect more of what we've seen so far. More HZD, Demon Souls, Spiderman, etc. Hell, maybe a surprise game we've not seen yet. Probably a ton of the new Call of Duty. Sony simply holding back for...reasons. I dunno. They got their slow and steady plan I guess. Again, if September 9th is true, than I would expect them to go full throttle from then on. Xbox too.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Even Sept 9th is too late for both platforms. The big big concern is gameplay footage. We should have been seen footage of all kinds of games coming. It just doesn't make sense to me. And I'm speaking about both companies.
Entroyp
Member
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Shmunter
Member
It would be cheaper to solder the flash chips onto the board so I'll say it's going to be additive. Obviously was not possible with mechanical drives in past gens.
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Shmunter
Member
Hehe, a lot of SSD talk from you of recent. You may as well come out and say it. PS5 has the most revolutionary storage solution in the world, nay....the galaxy!
Yeah I know, we all deserve a path to redemption no matter how batshit wrong we were.
WhispersintheWind
Member
Or people don’t like what was said. Or what you was told and share it. Also when told or hear stuff it almost impossible to always 100% verify info. Especially with events. Covid and other factors has stuff changing faster then you can keep up sometimes.
You suffer from 'foot-in-mouth' syndrome, this 'tool' you refer to favours Xbox over Playstation! But that does not stop Paul from being an unbiased professional who report facts as he sees them, he has a proven track record"microsoft let amd take the lead desinging cpu & gpu, and only asked for a few customizations here and there for certain functionality, like backward compatibility"
ok, this guy is a complete tool, and anybody who thinks something else simply has no clue was he is talking about either.
Report this to your guardian
VFXVeteran
, he can throw his weight on Paul too tell him where he's wrongCityHunter1981
Member
Has Sony confirmed at this point that there is no backward capability beyond PS4? I know there has been the "leak" from Ubisoft, but it is strange for me, that Sony is not saying anything about it? If there wouldn't be it would be better for Sony to communicate it already to not give players hope. Why keep this sour pill for a later time nearer to the marketing? So, for me there is still doubt if there is really no backwards capability, because it's possible that Ubisoft also doesn't know.
VFXVeteran
Banned
You suffer from 'foot-in-mouth' syndrome, this 'tool' you refer to favours Xbox over Playstation! But that does not stop Paul from being an unbiased professional who report facts as he sees them, he has a proven track record
Report this to your guardian
Is this another thread derail that I will be blamed for?
VFXVeteran
Banned
Would you want PS/2/3 BC? Just curious. I would think that would jack up the price or maybe an emulator would suck.
Sinthor
Gold Member
They haven't said anything official to AFFIRM or DENY BC beyond PS4, but I really think that's because they've only talked about PS4 BC and the assumption is that everyone knows that only PS4 titles will be directly backwards compatible. Other earlier generation games will be available via PS Now. Or if they come up with a new program or combination of PS+ and PSNow. I think they feel this is just pretty much "known" since they've talked about PS4 BC only and don't see a need to address it further.
devilNprada
Member
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VFXVeteran
Banned
Usually? OK. 2nd thread derail on the same page -- anyone else?
Moridianae
Member
Sony has kept a lot of stuff pretty securely locked down. I, personally, would absolutely love an end-all be-all box, akin the ol' 60GB PS3, but I don't think it's going to happen.
That being said, HipHop is willing to stake his entire reputation on it and he does seem to have his connections in the industry at glance, so I'm interested enough to see the conclusion of that story if nothing else.
If anyone could accurately emulate the PS3 for BC, it would be Sony themselves. PS and PS2 are easy enough.
I trust our resident folks like
HeisenbergFX4
or even
VFXVeteran
. If something like that was a done deal, he and probably a couple of others would have hinted at it.
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CityHunter1981
Member
I think they should have addressed it, after seeing that many fans thought there might be bc, because of the empty space in a box in the Mark Cerny presentation, which really looked suspicious.
Also they should have the SW emulator for PS1 and PS2 already from the PS3 and it shouldn't be too hard to make it run on PS5.
Also they should have the SW emulator for PS1 and PS2 already from the PS3 and it shouldn't be too hard to make it run on PS5.
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Sinthor
Gold Member
For myself, I think it would be cool but definitely not something I NEED or that I would use much at all. I had the PS2 hardware BC model of the PS3 when it came out. I used it probably 3-4 times...and THAT was earlier on when there weren't many PS3 titles.
So I think it would be nice occasionally to be able to take that sentimental walk down the lane of other generations, but that's about it. Now, I'm sure there ARE some people who still have those platforms and still play those games. That's why I think what MS has done with their BC is clearly superior and very cool. I mean, especially if you had the option to also UPSCALE those PS1 and PS2 games, for example...pretty cool. Now MS only has to contend basically with the equivalent of the PS2 generation on up, but what they have done is just damn impressive. Very nice for Xbox fans!
I'm 99.9% sure that Sony is just going to stick with PS4 and up compatibility in the future. Hell, for PS6 even PS4 titles may be relegated to PSNow. Depends on how fast and far they are able and willing to extend PSNow as a service.
T
Three Jackdaws
Unconfirmed Member
What’s funny is Paul is more biased towards Xbox and PC, but facts are facts, until we have more information on both consoles APU’s, it seems Sony made much more heavy customisations to their APU compared to Microsoft. I thought fanboys would be happy Series X has “full RDNA 2” but guess not lol"microsoft let amd take the lead desinging cpu & gpu, and only asked for a few customizations here and there for certain functionality, like backward compatibility"
ok, this guy is a complete tool, and anybody who thinks something else simply has no clue was he is talking about either.
Sinthor
Gold Member
Man, if you feel people are just trying to get a rise out of you or something, just move on or ignore. Replying to every snipe someone takes is just giving some folk what they want. Just ignore and it will drive those types crazy. The ones who aren't after that may modify their approach if they are ignored when they snipe. Just a thought.
That being said, I get it. Some people just HAVE to respond whenever someone takes a shot at them. If that's you...then you do you. Just making a suggestion and nothing more. I don't want to see pages of back and forth and "you said..." versus "but you said" posts. That's all. JUST TRYING TO SAVE THE SHREDS OF SANITY I HAVE LEFT!
Nickolaidas
Member
I doubt it. If Sony hasn't yet announced an event or state of play for the 9th of September, it ain't happening.
This is getting ridiculous, unless a delay is coming up for both consoles. We'll see.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
Agree. I think sticking with PS4+ is the way to go. The PS4 and now PS5 are pretty much PCs with some cool tricky hardware so it would be pretty easy to keep that going forward.
VFXVeteran
Banned
It's more of pointing out comments so that people can quickly track whom were responsible for the thread being closed yet again.
Sinthor
Gold Member
Ah yes, I should have thrown that in about the architectures. You're absolutely right though, MUCH more standard 'PC type' architectures. Even with the new I/O on the PS5, I would think that if they keep CPU and GPU compatibility, that's 95%+ of the backwards compatibility issue for the future. Keep those things standard and they'll have a much easier time of maintaining BC in the future.
Or....and here's a crazy thought....license how MS is doing all their BC and upscaling? Could do that even with just going PS4 and higher to duplicate what MS is doing with the resolution and fps boosts for older games.
May seem crazy...but then again, nobody thought Sony would be using Azure. Fact is that MS, like Sony, is very diverse in their business. As long as they are not giving a CRITICAL business advantage to a direct competitor, making money off of those competitors is a GOOD THING.
Sinthor
Gold Member
Fair enough. I just hope people (and I'm not pointing any fingers here! I just mean in general, "people") get back to more speculation and argue about what they think is coming rather than the largely tacky-tac stuff I see flying back and forth a lot of the time. I LIKE THIS THREAD and just want to see it stay open till we HAVE the details we're speculating on.It's more of pointing out comments so that people can quickly track whom were responsible for the thread being closed yet again.
Sinthor
Gold Member
Ok, so here's another speculation question I have. I was among those who thought that Ray Tracing was going to be a feature that the next gen TECHNICALLY had and supported, but that we wouldn't see actually used except in just a few games here and there and in a very limited way.
The XSX minecraft demo actually bolstered my thinking in this way because while it was very impressive, still being effectively limited to 30fps and less (when actually in motion) just showed how much horsepower is required for this type of thing. Meaning A LOT!
So all these games being shown that seem to have, what to my untrained eye seems to be a significant amount of RT. In other words, it's very and easily visible and definitely enhances those titles. Even what's being shown and that says it will be 4k 6 60fps . That stunned me frankly.
Now of course, I know that these games aren't doing NEARLY what that minecraft demo was. That was FULL path tracing as I understand it...part of why it was so damn impressive that the XSX could even pull it off! But my question is....to put it in simple terms...if that minecraft demo was FULL RT, then what percentage are we seeing and likely to see in our standard PS5/XSX titles? Is what we're seeing in say GT7, 10% 20%? Less? I've read some speculation that somehow the RT portions may just be 1080p to save on resources? I don't understand how that works, but is there anyone who DOES understand it and can answer these questions in a simple form...in other words, without a doctoral thesis on the subject?
The XSX minecraft demo actually bolstered my thinking in this way because while it was very impressive, still being effectively limited to 30fps and less (when actually in motion) just showed how much horsepower is required for this type of thing. Meaning A LOT!
So all these games being shown that seem to have, what to my untrained eye seems to be a significant amount of RT. In other words, it's very and easily visible and definitely enhances those titles. Even what's being shown and that says it will be 4k 6 60fps . That stunned me frankly.
Now of course, I know that these games aren't doing NEARLY what that minecraft demo was. That was FULL path tracing as I understand it...part of why it was so damn impressive that the XSX could even pull it off! But my question is....to put it in simple terms...if that minecraft demo was FULL RT, then what percentage are we seeing and likely to see in our standard PS5/XSX titles? Is what we're seeing in say GT7, 10% 20%? Less? I've read some speculation that somehow the RT portions may just be 1080p to save on resources? I don't understand how that works, but is there anyone who DOES understand it and can answer these questions in a simple form...in other words, without a doctoral thesis on the subject?
Red_Driver85
Member
Who would doubt that RTX i/o would be the preferred setup in your case. Only time and the coming games will show that you missed again, Akela.
Setsuna Mudou
Member
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