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[Emmy]

So is it safe to say with regards RDNA 2 we've seen all there is to see with the XSX architecture

XSX's APU is not just a PC part. It has it's own additions too. Just not as much as PS5 has. Again, there's more about PS5 than meets the eye, like RDNA 3/Zen 3 things. AMD won't let Sony talk about it, before they properly introduce their PC GPU's.

 

[Red_Driver85]

XSX's APU is not just a PC part. It has it's own additions too. Just not as much as PS5 has.

Correct. XsX has own custom hardware features, but mostly they are software.

 

[LiquidRex]

XSX's APU is not just a PC part. It has it's own additions too. Just not as much as PS5 has. Again, there's more about PS5 than meets the eye, like RDNA 3/Zen 3 things. AMD won't let Sony talk about it, before they properly introduce their PC GPU's.

Yeah I know PS5 has features that may appear in RDNA 3 if AMD think worthy, Sony has a track record with regards introducing new features that later appear in AMD architecture.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

Dirt 5 delayed to November 6... launch alonside XSX confirmed? hmmmm

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Correct. XsX has own custom hardware features, but mostly they are software.

There is a hard limit on how 'exotic' the XsX can be, in contrast to PS5, as XsX has to have built in cross-compatibility with DX and PC. Otherwise their studios would be truly screwed having to port games across XsX, XsS, XB1, XB1X and PC. Looking at that, we've found the reason they're so behind with their games.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Since today is an official holiday around the US, it's safe to not expect anything PS5 related from Sony right?

 

[Blitzmangoman]

I just want something new already, damn. Also the last few pages were garbage.

 

[Bergoglio]

So now we are going to criticize a platform because many of its games are third person, man try another hobby.

Cmon it was a jk bro

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

At least for the sake of our sanity, even a PS5 UI reveal today should suffice for now. Throw us a bone Sony!

 

[Shmunter]

Yeah, Seriously. Can we stop discussing PC in this thread? I know people like to compare things between them, but closed platforms and open platforms are NOT comparable much. Some yet to understand that developers approach consoles/PC differently, and that console specs are not the most important factor in the grand scheme of things. Even more, people are not buying consoles solely for their power, but just to play games on them. Personally, I have never bought a console because of its paper specs and have no intention of doing so in the future.

I wonder if I’m the odd one out by having a greater appreciation of results coming out of a fixed spec. E.g I know what a PS4 is, I know it’s specs, I know what to generally expect. And then I get delighted by something impressive and get bonus satisfaction, it’s part of the fun.

Anybody else onboard with such a mentality?

 

[Bojanglez]

I never said that MS money is Xbox money. I said that as long as Microsoft is willing to continue to value the long term gain of Game Pass over the short and medium-term, then MS will be willing to continue with the Game Pass initiative. This isn't the first time MS has transitioned a one-purchase business model to a subscription model. MS 365 is a good example and they lost billions because of it, but the long term gain outweighed the short term pain.

The same logic likely applies to Game Pass. MS could be prepared to not have a profit at all for the short term, but prepared to make it the long term when there is a big enough userbase.

A lot of the moves that Sony has historically made were short term gains over the long term gain. E.g PS3.

The difference being that Office 365 is their offering in a market that they completely dominate.

And guess what, as a consumer I’m worse off after the transition to Office 365.

Also MS didn't just decide to transition to Office 365 as some kind of visionary business move. Yes they were/are dominating the desktop space, but they were somewhat forced into Office 365 by Google releasing a platform neutral cloud based alternative.

It still makes me laugh that MS were caught so off guard with the SaaS model and cloud software in general that they had to release attack ads trying to scare people about cloud tech. Times have changed and MS realise services are now where it is at and are rightly laying the foundations for this future, as are Sony.

 

[MilkyJoe]

There's some MrXmedia level shit in here

 

[TBiddy]

There is a hard limit on how 'exotic' the XsX can be, in contrast to PS5, as XsX has to have built in cross-compatibility with DX and PC. Otherwise their studios would be truly screwed having to port games across XsX, XsS, XB1, XB1X and PC. Looking at that, we've found the reason they're so behind with their games.

I love how you start out, somewhat reasonable, only to go back to your old ways.

 

[sandkiller]

 

[xacto]

I wonder if I’m the odd one out by having a greater appreciation of results coming out of a fixed spec. E.g I know what a PS4 is, I know it’s specs, I know what to generally expect. And then I get delighted by something impressive and get bonus satisfaction, it’s part of the fun.

If I ever hated something about PC gaming, it was the "can my PC run this?" thought. I got into console gaming right at the end of the PS3 generation, and I was a day 1 buyer of PS4.

Since then, I have never had to visit any type of "can you run it" website. And as I was a happy camper with my PS4, I will probably be even happier with a PS5.

I am way past the time where a new video card specs would trouble my gaming life.

 

[Shmunter]

I can see that being the case but then.. more memory for the VRAM. If I have 16G of CPU and 11G VRAM.. in order to have a very cohesive graphics pipeline is to have CPU + GPU = 27G VRAM. I would much rather have 16G of CPU + 11G of VRAM than just 14G of VRAM (i.e. removed 2G for OS). That's assuming I'm making a game specifically for this particular hardware. I get that the transfer from CPU->GPU could be a pain in the butt, but I also don't like sharing game code with my VRAM memory pool. It's preference.

Unified ram is the future. PC architecture in this regards is a legacy.

As long as the ram has sufficient bandwidth, the various processors can be profiled and contention managed. Working on the one pool of ram is more flexible and efficient. No copying & duplicating - all processors can work on the same piece of data in harmony.

It's further self evident with consoles hanging further bespoke processors off the ram, DMA data de-compressors, sound processors. Isolation is counter productive.

 

[FunkMiller]

It could partly be about "US vs rest of the world" perspective bias

As in when people make ridiculous claims that xsex have a chance to "win" next gen and "10 > 12" is a big deal, non-US people just find it to be trolling/stupid/annoying/unrealistic

And when people make ridiculous claims that PS5 wins 99% sure, ssd+custom tech is cool = same deal.

And both can be true, depending from standpoint

To non-US people xbox really havent been nothing else than sour loser of every gen, small and weak competitor meanwhile most console gamers have Playstation and so on. Like 80% vs 20% situation. And Sony+Microsoft are both foreing companies for all other places than Japan. And Microsoft doesnt have as interesting reputation as Sony does. + For some reason Japanese companies are respected and liked on many areas.

To US people it is more like 50/50 situation so they really believe that there is some kind of competition, because on their country xbox is much more popular + US people have different culture of being super patriotic. And Sony is "bad foreing companty" to them, I guess, so it is easier to defend domestic company. And US have this "imports are shit" attitude for cars/other stuff so maybe it is partly that too.


So being from US vs being non-US gamer makes viewpoint so different that people whom dont understand this, continue to rage to each other as they are so sure about being right. While they are maybe right only for part of the world.

Looking at the whole global situation, PS5 is most likely easy winner no matter what, and I guess that is a hard pill to swallow

Great post. A neat explanation of how being from different countries affects context. It’s an element of all this a lot of people forget about.

 

[Shmunter]

First of all, new iPhones release in less than a month. Not in the smack middle of November.

Second, I don't know if you are oblivious of the situation or what, but the US is a powder keg in a way it never was since possibly the civil war. The country is incredibly polarized down to the very base, with two pretty distinct factions that are in disagreement on pretty much everything. There are also a lot of very invested and very radical people on both sides, who won't react to a loss with a "eh, whatever" and just go on with their lives. To this, you should add record-breaking unemployment, financial uncertainty and stress due to having to work and live with covid.

All of this combined can easily push people to a point where they might feel like they don't have much to lose, and they might as well go out and burn building/shoot other people if the they believe this will hurt the other faction more than theirs.

On top of a situation that is fucked up to begin with, Trump has been doing everything he can to poison the well and create confusion and uncertainty about the legitimacy of the election, and this already led to a situation where no matter who wins, the other side will have lots of excuses (legitimate or not) to claim fraud and refuse to accept the result.

This is a likely preview of what happens if Trump wins ("4 more years of this fascist? Not a chance"):



This is a likely preview of what happens if Biden wins ("the DemonCrats won't force me to wear a mask!"):



Of course, the other side will very swiftly reply in kind.

??? Are you in the right forum?

 

[Jon Neu]

What you mean like the PS5 SSD. Not being better than what PC will have. Look how that turned out. I wouldn't jump the gun on anything. Consoles are built for gaming. PC's are not. The performance levels are not the same.These new consoles are coming out with current & more advance tech than the PC space. So they are not behind at all.You are majorly jumping the gun.

There's a lot of hype on these 3000 which have not proven anything.All Jenson could show off was rolling marbles at 1440P ,30FPS. I thought the PC Elite don't do 30FPS. But now its cool. Funny.The truth & reality is Nvidia showed us rolling marbles. Which is pretty much the equivalent of the xbox minecraft rtx demo. But you want to convince me that 3000 series are better.Based on what?? Rolling marbles. Both consoles can run that marble demo.

The truth & reality is the PS5 showcased the UE5 demo. The best next gen looking display seen thus far. UE5 demo is the visual benchmark going into next gen thus far. But you want to convince me that 3000 series are better.Based on what??? The PS5 is streaming in 8K cinema assets on the fly. It's the only device to show "next gen" visuals. It wasn't a 3000 cards. So excuse me if I don't believe the bold.Until evidence shows up.If it does I'll accept it. But right now as I type 3000, is just looking overpriced for what it delivers.

People are still stuck in 2013 mind stat. It's 2020 tech has changed drastically. Simply look how the PS5 is clocked higher than 3080 "desktop gpu'' with much smaller power consumption. Look how consoles are on 7nm & 3070/80 are on 8nm.Again these new consoles are coming out with current & more advance tech than the PC space. So you are jumping the gun. Let's wait & see.

Oh boy, imagine being this delusional

What you mean like the PS5 SSD. Not being better than what PC will have. Look how that turned out.

Yeah, look how that turned out.

Consoles are built for gaming. PC's are not.

PC's can be built for anyhting, for gaming too.

And they can select amongst the greatest gaming hardware to make a PC much better for gaming than the PS5 will ever be.

The performance levels are not the same.

You're right. With DLSS, PC's now punch way higher than consoles with the same weight.

These new consoles are coming out with current & more advance tech than the PC space.

There's a lot of hype on these 3000 which have not proven anything.

But you want to convince me that 3000 series are better.Based on what?? Rolling marbles.

But right now as I type 3000, is just looking overpriced for what it delivers.

Again these new consoles are coming out with current & more advance tech than the PC space

Your Sony fanboy tears say more than what real evidence could.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

I love how some of the regular warriors are accusing @VFXVeteran of destroying the thread.. this thread turned from Speculation to "LOL, let's all post poor memes and cherrypicked comparisons, that favor Sony". Shit, there's even a lot of current-gen news, for some reason. It's a thread for chit-chat, these days. Hard to ruin it anymore than it already is.

 

[Vae_Victis]

??? Are you in the right forum?

I made the point that one reason why console release is still so much up in the air is the situation in the US could find itself in in November.

Somebody replied with "lol wut".

I clarified what I was talking about.

 

[Red_Driver85]

Your Sony fanboy tears say more than what real evidence could.

 

[Lunatic_Gamer]

Soony ™

 

[chilichote]

Soony ™

StandarT

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Unified ram is the future. PC architecture in this regards is a legacy.

As long as the ram has sufficient bandwidth, the various processors can be profiled and contention managed. Working on the one pool of ram is more flexible and efficient. No copying & duplicating - all processors can work on the same piece of data in harmony.

It's further self evident with consoles hanging further bespoke processors off the ram, DMA data de-compressors, sound processors. Isolation is counter productive.

PC hardware won't be cheapening out, and relying on unified ram! Lol that's definitely a hot take, if I've ever seen one. We wouldn't have DDR4 out, or DDR5 shortly after if unified ram would be a thing for PC. There have been several years for that to transition, but instead were getting faster and faster ram being mass produced.


Cost effective shortcuts don't make for a better solution. That only occurs when it boils down to budget and cost savings alone. Nothing else.

Oh boy, imagine being this delusional



Yeah, look how that turned out.



PC's can be built for anyhting, for gaming too.

And they can select amongst the greatest gaming hardware to make a PC much better for gaming than the PS5 will ever be.



You're right. With DLSS, PC's now punch way higher than consoles with the same weight.

Your Sony fanboy tears say more than what real evidence could.

Holy shit, I've read it all now man. There are some people suffering from PTSD from Nvidia's reveal, and you can just tell by how hard they project. If I ever were jealous or scared of another platform, I would keep it to myself than speak up and let the world see my fear.

 

[LiquidRex]

Xbox Series X price leaked by Pringles, could be upwards of $900

Pringles in South Africa rumored to have leaked Microsoft Xbox Series X pricing, new AMD Zen 2 / RDNA 2 console could cost $599.

www.tweaktown.com

How can such an article be published is beyond me

 

[hemo memo]

Oh boy, imagine being this delusional



Yeah, look how that turned out.



PC's can be built for anyhting, for gaming too.

And they can select amongst the greatest gaming hardware to make a PC much better for gaming than the PS5 will ever be.



You're right. With DLSS, PC's now punch way higher than consoles with the same weight.

Your Sony fanboy tears say more than what real evidence could.

Your “average” PC is weak and the market still support HDD so PC will hold back next-gen games that support PC and this maybe hurting the master racers feeling.

 

[Red_Driver85]

Again the retarded PC warriors rode in from a parallel universe. Who opened the portal?

 

[megreotsugua]

MS showed their console first in December. Why shouldn't they be the first to tell the price too? They don't really care how many consoles they sell... Are they afraid of something? They think it's all about the price of things? Where is XSS? And why are they sure that 2 SKU with a big difference in the GPU are the best strategy for the next generation?

This story about both companies waiting for each to reveal first, where did it come from? And why is it the accepted narrative? I've been out of the loop for sometime.

Perhaps that narrative is true, but it's also possible that Sony, for example, has already set a tentative date for a reveal including demos of games. I say the readiness of the game demos might be the one holding up the reveal. They might still be polishing the presentation for all we know.

I think the price has already been set for sometime. It's a matter of revealing it in a presentation that is not ready yet.

 

[hemo memo]

Xbox Series X price leaked by Pringles, could be upwards of $900

Pringles in South Africa rumored to have leaked Microsoft Xbox Series X pricing, new AMD Zen 2 / RDNA 2 console could cost $599.

www.tweaktown.com

How can such an article be published is beyond me

Very slow weeks I guess. Everyone is waiting for the next Bloomberg article.

 

[geordiemp]

PC hardware won't be cheapening out, and relying on unified ram! Lol that's definitely a hot take, if I've ever seen one. We wouldn't have DDR4 out, or DDR5 shortly after if unified ram would be a thing for PC. There have been several years for that to transition, but instead were getting faster and faster ram being mass produced.


Cost effective shortcuts don't make for a better solution. That only occurs when it boils down to budget and cost savings alone. Nothing else.

Holy shit, I've read it all now man. There are some people suffering from PTSD from Nvidia's reveal, and you can just tell by how hard they project. If I ever were jealous or scared of another platform, I would keep it to myself than speak up and let the world see my fear.

There are benefits to seperate RAM, in particular bandwidth, and there are benefits for coherency and certain tasks with a console unified RAM approach.

Console users dont like to hear bandwidth limited, PC users dont like to see examples where split RAM can hurt certian taks and blame the lazy poor port. Life goes on.

Take HZD and GPGPU procedural generation of environment where CPU and GPU are mucking in on the work and sharing RAM....

Will we see more of GPGPU or GPU procedural generation of assets, dreams and HZD come to mind, who knows. I would guess Sony first party will (Cerny presentation deeep dive mentioned new procedural GPGPU acceleratuon if people listened real carefully).

But new next gen consoles have decent CPU, will they need to do allot of GPGPU ? Playing devils advocate, can go either way...

 

[zubairali2]

microsoft, sony...something....PLEASE

 

[Jason28]

Dirt 5 delayed to November 6... launch alonside XSX confirmed? hmmmm

Boner ALERT !!! Boner ALERT !!!

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

There are benefits to seperate RAM, in particular bandwidth, and there are benefits for coherency and certain tasks with a console unified RAM approach.

Console users dont like to hear bandwidth limited, PC users dont like to see examples where split RAM can hurt certian taks and blame the lazy poor port. Life goes on.

Take HZD and GPGPU procedural generation of environment where CPU and GPU are mucking in on the work and sharing RAM....

Will we see more of GPGPU or GPU procedural generation of assets, dreams and HZD come to mind, who knows.

I can agree with that. I just feel like we'll see those specifics with GPGPU more so from specialized studios and exclusives. The majority will run on engines that can scale well for all hardware configs. Then again it can solely come down to how games are ported, and if good teams/bad teams are selected for those ports.

 

[Jon Neu]

Seconds later...

Again the retarded PC warriors rode in from a parallel universe. Who opened the portal?

Your “average” PC is weak and the market still support HDD so PC will hold back next-gen games that support PC and this maybe hurting the master racers feeling.

So, your theory is that PC, which can brute force everything because it's much more powerful than any console, it's going to hold back next gen games (on console, because PC's are going to brute force it as always).

So by your own theory, PC's are going to hold back next gen games on consoles and holding those console videogames is going to hurt PC's users feelings, while they are playing at much better settings, with much better resolution and fps.

Spoiler

Sony fanboys are the best.

 

[geordiemp]

I can agree with that. I just feel like we'll see those specifics with GPGPU more so from specialized studios and exclusives. The majority will run on engines that can scale well for all hardware configs. Then again it can solely come down to how games are ported, and if good teams/bad teams are selected for those ports.

For HZD, you would be rewriting the engine that does the scenery, thats a big task. But with powerful CPUs on next gen consoles and PC for a long time now, was GPGPU needed. Who knows lol.

 

[thurnishaleygw]

PC hardware won't be cheapening out, and relying on unified ram! Lol that's definitely a hot take, if I've ever seen one. We wouldn't have DDR4 out, or DDR5 shortly after if unified ram would be a thing for PC. There have been several years for that to transition, but instead were getting faster and faster ram being mass produced.


Cost effective shortcuts don't make for a better solution. That only occurs when it boils down to budget and cost savings alone. Nothing else.

Holy shit, I've read it all now man. There are some people suffering from PTSD from Nvidia's reveal, and you can just tell by how hard they project. If I ever were jealous or scared of another platform, I would keep it to myself than speak up and let the world see my fear.

 

[zaitsu]

Seconds later...

So, your theory is that PC, which can brute force everything because it's much more powerful than any console, it's going to hold back next gen games (on console, because PC's are going to brute force it as always).

So by your own theory, PC's are going to hold back next gen games on consoles and holding those console videogames is going to hurt PC's users feelings, while they are playing at much better settings, with much better resolution and fps.

Spoiler

Sony fanboys are the best.

Anybody lower than 8core zen2, pcie4 ssd and rtx2000 and rtx3000 will held back consoles.
You know how much of PCs won't have all of those things ? 99%

Most common cards are 1060 and 1660, some old CPU and HDD for games combo dude.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

For HZD, you would be rewriting the engine that does the scenery, thats a big task. But with powerful CPUs on next gen consoles and PC for a long time now, was GPGPU needed. Who knows lol.

I believe NXGamer specifically stated exactly that. It would be too much time and resources, which is money, just to get the port properly working and optimized. Hopefully engines will have better scalability this go around, as pressure is on everyone now.

Devs used to be able to shit the bed with no repercussions. Now, they can't even wipe their ass with off brand toilet tissue.

 

[Blitzmangoman]

Just close this thread already.

 

[Emmy]

Some people never learn.

 

[LiquidRex]

This story about both companies waiting for each to reveal first, where did it come from? And why is it the accepted narrative? I've been out of the loop for sometime.

Perhaps that narrative is true, but it's also possible that Sony, for example, has already set a tentative date for a reveal including demos of games. I say the readiness of the game demos might be the one holding up the reveal. They might still be polishing the presentation for all we know.

I think the price has already been set for sometime. It's a matter of revealing it in a presentation that is not ready yet.

I think and someone else has speculated this...the reason we haven't seen a Taredown of the PS5 as of yet, is due to Sony waiting on the announcement of 7GB/s SSDs hitting the market and tried and tested for PS5 storage expansion.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

Now of course, I know that these games aren't doing NEARLY what that minecraft demo was. That was FULL path tracing as I understand it...part of why it was so damn impressive that the XSX could even pull it off! But my question is....to put it in simple terms...if that minecraft demo was FULL RT, then what percentage are we seeing and likely to see in our standard PS5/XSX titles? Is what we're seeing in say GT7, 10% 20%? Less? I've read some speculation that somehow the RT portions may just be 1080p to save on resources? I don't understand how that works, but is there anyone who DOES understand it and can answer these questions in a simple form...in other words, without a doctoral thesis on the subject?

The easiest way is to show you. Now, GT7 has shown some raytracing, not during gameplay, but during the pits section.
For your convenience I have marked some easy to spot areas where you can see for yourself the difference in both resolution and detail

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

Was just looking through Best Buys site and saw that Just Dance 2021 for PS5 is supposed to release on the 12th of November. Everything seems like it's lining up for the PS5 to release that week with CoD (for other platforms at least) set to release on the 13th (and I imagine the PS5 version as well, on the same date as the actual console).

 

[kyliethicc]

I thought I would come in here and see if there was any meaningful conversation speculation but as usual, nothing but console wars..with the Sony guys berating the Xbox guys yet again..

So lets break this down for you.

I made a joke about the tweet from Xbox UK.
They were tweeting about their backwards compatibility.
Because tweets are limited in word count, they simply wrote "HDR supported."
I made a joke that is based on how vague that sounds, as if they're bragging the Xbox can do HDR.
Of course, current gen consoles already support HDR10 video output and so it would be a silly thing to brag about.
Of course, that's not what they were marketing in their tweet. Its about HDR added in BC games,

My joke was "lets see if Sony can respond."
This is mocking console wars. Not starting one.
The premise of the joke is the marketing, the responses and fighting between the consoles is silly.
The joke is sarcasm.

Sharky quoted me trying to tell me all of this, stressing how cool BC is.
I assume he did not understand I was joking.
I was joking. I already understood what he was trying to inform me of.

So I responded with another joke, mocking his high valuing of HDR in old games.
Thats of course subjective in value. I couldn't care less about how old games look. Old games are old.
I simply showed how new games look compared to an Xbox game. What a contrast.
Of course I picked a shitty old game like Gex thats what worked for the joke.
Again, I'm mocking how the console is marketed.
BC is fine, nice perk, but lead your marketing on new games. New experiences.

I didn't insult him or you or anyone else.
I made silly jokes, and many seemed to have enjoyed them. No need for your worries.
I hope you are still enjoying playing HZD at 30 Hz.

 

[hemo memo]

Seconds later...

So, your theory is that PC, which can brute force everything because it's much more powerful than any console, it's going to hold back next gen games (on console, because PC's are going to brute force it as always).

So by your own theory, PC's are going to hold back next gen games on consoles and holding those console videogames is going to hurt PC's users feelings, while they are playing at much better settings, with much better resolution and fps.

Spoiler

Sony fanboys are the best.

Average. Look up Steam hardware. Be angry at the majority of your PC master race players.

 

[BGs]

Edit► Now that I see this answer (Much more important than my initial answer on the price of the first PS.)▼

The easiest way is to show you. Now, GT7 has shown some raytracing, not during gameplay, but during the pits section.
For your convenience I have marked some easy to spot areas where you can see for yourself the difference in both resolution and detail

What do you mean when you say that GT7 has "not shown raytracing during gameplay"?

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I love how you start out, somewhat reasonable, only to go back to your old ways.

There is nothing unreasonable suggesting they are behind with first party development looking at the Series X launch line up.

 

[zaitsu]

(OT) 25 years have passed.





Edit► Now that I see this answer▼



What do you mean when you say that GT7 has "not shown raytracing during gameplay"?

Dont bother BG, this dude is piece of shit.

 

[megreotsugua]

I think and someone else has speculated this...the reason we haven't seen a Taredown of the PS5 as of yet, is due to Sony waiting on the announcement of 7GB/s SSDs hitting the market and tried and tested for PS5 storage expansion.

And I really don't see how that would hold Sony back for the teardown. Why do they need a compatible commercial SSD to be available before they show the teardown?