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All The Last of Us 2 leaks/spoilers in here and nowhere else.

Fake

Member
I know that many will tell me that I have not understood the purpose of the game, what it intends to convey, that the protagonists are all (as in Game of Thrones), etc ... But no. All that I understand perfectly. But still, I don't like it. And I don't like what I have experienced. It has brought out the worst feelings in me. And that is a success for ND, but for me it is not something that I can value positively.

So I have rated the game with a "0". Because, although technically it is a "10" game, my experience with the game has been disastrous. A stab in the back. More disappointing than the ending of Lost or Game of Thrones. I think it has been the most disappointing experience of my video game life. I hate having played this game. Although I don't regret having paid to play it.

As an individual game it is a masterpiece. But, for me, coming from the love of the first part, this second part is an absolute disappointment at the level of experience.

It is certainly not a "fair" assessment, as the work done is exceptional. But what you end up experiencing is a story, and if at the beginning of the story they destroy your hopes and your dreams accumulated in the more than 5 years of waiting between one part and another, it is impossible for the experience to be satisfactory. Also, if you're forced to play half the story with a character you deeply hate, your bodily and spiritual sensation is disgusting. Teenr that playing more than 20 hours with a character you wish his death makes you do not make the slightest effort to stay alive and that makes you feel more like leaving the command than taking it.

It is a game that in my opinion is very politicized. Technically unpolluted, but aimed at satisfying an ideological sector of the population.

Life is already shit in itself, I do not feel like playing a video game to have a bad time bodily (nausea, hatred, revulsion, etc). I'm sick of fashion now being "eliminating" the protagonists because that "sells".

I guess it is part of my nature, I am a person who does not like to go to the movies to see "drama". I don't like paying money to have a bad time. Life is already hard in itself so I have to expose myself to movies that make me feel bad. Similarly, I like to play games that don't end so badly.

Perhaps the worst thing about the game on a personal level is being forced to do things that I don't want to do, with a character that I don't want to control and in circumstances that I don't want to accept. I think that should have been approached differently.

Getting your favorite character killed early in the game would have a pass. You have to take revenge. That based on that "demonize" your other favorite character would also have a pass. But forcing you to play a hated character halfway through the game, I didn't like it at all. A character that all you want is for him to die in terrible suffering. But being forced to make decisions with that hated character that involves physical and psychological damage to your favorite character is vomiting and repulsive. And the worst is the deceptive advertising of the trailers, adding scenes from the game with characters changed to mislead. If I buy a TombRaider game I want to play with LaraCroft, it is the least I expect. If the writer wants to kill LaraCroft he can do it at the end, but what you can't do is kill her at the beginning and force yourself to play as her killer during the game. I have not bought a game from the LaraCroft killer, I have bought a LaraCroft game and this is the one I want to play with.

For all this I feel cheated. As a fan of the game.

As a game I could have enjoyed breaking with the past, but then for me it makes no sense to play it.

The game is a narrative achievement, but at the same time it is a failure (for me), since it makes me want to leave the command more than to continue playing this unjust and despicable atrocity.

In summary, my assessment is that I would rather not have played it (at the narrative level), although I am glad I had played it (at the technical level).

But I repeat, and I want to make it clear, professionally, on a technical level, I can only take my hat off and praise the technical portent that this game has. Artistically it is impeccable, especially to work on a hardware from 6 years ago (approx). There are parts where you could go through a next-gen starter game.

So, for my part, NaughtyDog, on the one hand I congratulate you, as a professional, and on the other hand, as a user, I spit on your face and I hope that in the future you think less about making society happy and more about making users happy. .

Logically this "criticism" is to undo me, since no one from ND is going to read it, and if they read it it will not matter to them, since they know that they have created a masterpiece. Masterpiece that for me has already disappeared from my mind.

There will only be one TLOU in my heart.

Well said bro. I guess this only proves how much fanboys try to ignore critics. The gameplay of part 2 was pretty good and the shoot mechanics was a great improve over the previous no the mention the graphics.

BUT, this game is a heavily story related and seeing people ignoring this is beyond anything I have imagine.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
Gamespot spoilercast (again with stupidly high dislike ratio since I think they are spot on)... and the reviewer lady is cute AF :p


That Kallie Plagge gamespot reviewer has a good taste. She also really liked Death Stranding.
Also - I am super mad at the internet and the leaks. I wish I could experience this game without any leaks....
 
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Piku_Ringo

Banned
ezgif-1-5a16cd3185de.gif



I dunno this def would make me give the game a 10/10 score for this moment alone.
 

lukilladog

Member
Game seems a bit buggy, previous streamer I was waching her character got stuck swimming in the air, other guy said he suffered several bugs, and just now this:



Master Piece my ass.
 

Jayjayhd34

Member
Game seems a bit buggy, previous streamer I was waching her character got stuck swimming in the air, other guy said he suffered several bugs, and just now this:



Master Piece my ass.


The only bug I had in roughly 30 hours was the player going through an object.

That error in the video is very common on Ps4 it can happen regardless what your doing playing games streaming etc its nothing to do with this game and issue with ps4s OS.
 

lukilladog

Member
The only bug I had in roughly 30 hours was the player going through an object.

That error in the video is very common on Ps4 it can happen regardless what your doing playing games streaming etc its nothing to do with this game and issue with ps4s OS.

The OS seems to be working fine after it reported there was an application error, so it seems the problem was the game.
 

sendit

Member
Gamespot spoilercast (again with stupidly high dislike ratio since I think they are spot on)... and the reviewer lady is cute AF :p


That Kallie Plagge gamespot reviewer has a good taste. She also really liked Death Stranding.
Also - I am super mad at the internet and the leaks. I wish I could experience this game without any leaks....


My thoughts exactly. I tried to avoid the leaks up until the game was released. However, that was incredibly hard with so many people trying to spoil the game. The moment Joel met Abby in the game, I already knew he was going to die in the next few scenes. I just didn't know how Abby was going to kill him.

Aside from the pacing issues, this was a great experience. Definitely a risky release for Sony. The game is incredibly polarizing, with people trying to paint there own picture of what they want the game to be.
 
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psorcerer

Banned
1. Logic states a theoretical anti-spore-zombie vaccine has a 50% chance? Even then 50% is pretty good when we're talking the entire human race.

2. Prove it.

3. "almost literally" that's a new one, Joel "almost literally" killed someone he didn't need to kill especially once he'd disarmed him.

4. The surgeon is killed in a cut-scene, you have no control over it. The other two doctors don't need to be killed and Marlena is also killed via cutscene.

1. Logic says that developing a vaccine is a lengthy and error prone process. The chance of extracting stuff from Ellie is pretty low. To remind you: TLOU did not state that the surgeon was even capable of doing it.

2. Fireflies are dead in TLOU2.

3. The doctor said "I won't allow you to take her" and fetches a scalpel.

4.
 
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sendit

Member
I maybe wrong but i think the new image at the main menu after you beat the game is that Abby and Lev reached the fireflies.
Nothing on Dina or Ellie. If i have to take a guess Dina will take the baby to a closed city like Jackson, and Ellie will roam like Joel once did, looking for a reason to exist, while struggling with survival.


I disagree with you, i think this game is about setting up part 3, with Abby and Lev as the main characters.

I don't think Abby and Lev will be the main characters if a part 3 was considered (I think they should end it here, similar opinion on the first game). Ellie is key to the story line. From what we know, Ellie is still the only one immune to the virus.
 
1. Logic says that developing a vaccine is a lengthy and error prone process. The chance of extracting stuff from Ellie is pretty low. To remind you: TLOU did not state that the surgeon was even capable of doing it.

2. Fireflies are dead in the TLOU2.

3. The doctor said "I won't allow you to take her" and fetches a scalpel.

4.


1. The game 100% stated he could do it, actually. They specifically said they were going to cure it.

2. Did you play the whole game? Near the end it's found out they have a new base and have been growing in number.

3. You keep glossing over the "he disarmed him" part.

4. Joel is a character who's actions you didn't have full control over, you can't decide how to deal with the surgeon, you either go to him and let the cut-scene of Joel killing him play or get murdered for not doing it. You have no choice not because the doctor MUST die but because you MUST play as Joel and Joel is going to do this.
 

TissueBox

Member
Yep, and yet not an inch of remorse.

Remorse, no. Just like Joel, Ellie, and Tommy, she is too stubborn for remorse -- to feel like she was the one in the wrong.

But she was punished. Everybody was. And like everybody else, she will suffer through and for it.
 

sendit

Member
4. Joel is a character who's actions you didn't have full control over, you can't decide how to deal with the surgeon, you either go to him and let the cut-scene of Joel killing him play or get murdered for not doing it. You have no choice not because the doctor MUST die but because you MUST play as Joel and Joel is going to do this.

I mean, you can choose not to kill the doctor and pretend the game ended there with Joel dead. No one is forcing you to complete the story of what the authors intended it to be. This isn't a open world RPG. This is a highly narrative driven game.
 
I watched the spoilers and found Abby so fucking stupid. Then I played the game and ended up finding Abby as the best character in the game. WTH :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Naughty Dog needs better writers. I don't give two shit about Ellie or Joel anymore, fuck them. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
I watched the spoilers and found Abby so fucking stupid. Then I played the game and ended up finding Abby as the best character in the game. WTH :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Naughty Dog needs better writers. I don't give two shit about Ellie or Joel anymore, fuck them. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Yep. That is my thoughts too. Abby and the whole WLF situation was the most interesting part of the game. Though Mel, Lev, and the whole focus on romantic relationships and gender identity bullshit is just painful to go through.
 

Stuart360

Member
Can someone explain somehting for me. I have watched 2 playthroughs now (CohhCarnage and AngryJoe), and i keep missing towards the end of the playthrough for various reasons. So i just wanted to know why Abby has short hair and seems to of lost her muscles when she fights Ellie at the end. Is there like a time gap in the game or something?
 
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Paracelsus

Member
Can someone explain somehting for me. I have watched 2 playthroughs now (CohhCarnage and AngryJoe), and i keep missing towards the end of the playthrough for various reasons. So i just wanted to know why Abby has short hair and seems to of lost her muscles when she fights Ellie at the end. Is there like a time gap in the game or something?

A year and a half timeskip, Abby and Lev got captured by the rattlers, and got enslaved. Abby tried to escape and their punishment was death by crucifixion.
 
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Stuart360

Member
A year and a half timeskip, Abby and Lev got captured by the rattlers, and got enslaved. Abby tried to escape and their punishment was death by crucifixion.
Oh so they were captured for a year and a half, and i guess they didnt get much food, so she lost her bulk.
I was thinking they made Abby look small for when you fight Ellie or something.
 
I mean, you can choose not to kill the doctor and pretend the game ended there with Joel dead. No one is forcing you to complete the story of what the authors intended it to be. This isn't a open world RPG. This is a highly narrative driven game.

Sure, my problem is rationalizing Joel killing the doctor, which lots of people who love Joel want to do so badly.
 

Okamiden

Member
Guys, so is there a valid and realistic reason for Abby to look the way she looks? I was waiting the whole time to have some kind of justification from medical standpoint, why her whole body, not only arms, look like they are belong to a man? I don't know, maybe it's crazy theory, but considering how much politics and LGBT movement is shoved in the game, don't you think one of the main reasons Abby looks like that because Neil wanted to emphasis how much gender is not important and it is absolutely natural to have a woman with mens body, and also having straight male attracted to such individual and have sex with her/him. This is pretty much lines up with currently popular forcing of gender neutralism and almost gender-shaming by some of the more radical parts of LGBT movement.
 

sendit

Member
Sure, my problem is rationalizing Joel killing the doctor, which lots of people who love Joel want to do so badly.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly, but I see Joel killing the doctor as someone who would do anything to protect their own child. This tied in to his redemption for not being able to protect his own daughter. I don't have a child of my own, so I can't relate. However, trying to see it from Joel's perspective, it seems rational for a irrational decision. The choice to save millions of lives versus one. What if it was your loved one on that operating table, what would you do? The answer would be polarizing depending on the person.
 
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I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly, but I see Joel killing the doctor as someone who would do anything to protect their own child. This tied in to his redemption for not being able to protect his own daughter. I don't have a child of my own, so I can't relate. However, trying to see it from Joel's perspective, it seems rational for an irrational decision. The choice to save millions of lives versus one. What if it was your loved one on that operating table, what would you do? The answer would be polarizing depending on the person.

Sure, I agree, he just also didn't need to kill him, he disarms him like he's disarming a child, after that killing him was unnecessary, in particular with Marlena begging for her life, he justifies it through them coming for Ellie.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
Guys, so is there a valid and realistic reason for Abby to look the way she looks? I was waiting the whole time to have some kind of justification from medical standpoint, why her whole body, not only arms, look like they are belong to a man? I don't know, maybe it's crazy theory, but considering how much politics and LGBT movement is shoved in the game, don't you think one of the main reasons Abby looks like that because Neil wanted to emphasis how much gender is not important and it is absolutely natural to have a woman with mens body, and also having straight male attracted to such individual and have sex with her/him. This is pretty much lines up with currently popular forcing of gender neutralism and almost gender-shaming by some of the more radical parts of LGBT movement.

There is no reason to explain why Abby looks the way she does. The most rationalizing they do is insinuate she works out (which would not explain how she looks, given the muscle mass she has achieveed would require a full time job of just working out, eating, and taking supplements, something that isn't possible in the world they crafted).

Its just Druckmann's social justice agenda that super fans will claim doesn't exist.
 
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sendit

Member
There is no reason to explain why Abby looks the way she does. The most rationalizing they do is insinuate she works out (which would not explain how she looks, given the muscle mass she has achieveed would require a full time job of just working out, eating, and taking supplements, something that isn't possible in the world they crafted).

Its just Druckmann's social justice agenda that super fans will claim doesn't exist.

You mean a world were danger lurks at every corner? Her job as a soldier? The WLF faction wasn't exactly starved for food. They turned Century Link Stadium in to a farm. Its not unbelievable her daily rountine consisted of patrols/working out/eating.
 

joe_zazen

Member
I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly, but I see Joel killing the doctor as someone who would do anything to protect their own child. This tied in to his redemption for not being able to protect his own daughter. I don't have a child of my own, so I can't relate. However, trying to see it from Joel's perspective, it seems rational for a irrational decision. The choice to save millions of lives versus one. What if it was your loved one on that operating table, what would you do? The answer would be polarizing depending on the person.

so if a doctor you never met said vivisecting your first born would save the world? you wouldn’t hand him over? What an asshole you must be,
 
There is no reason to explain why Abby looks the way she does. The most rationalizing they do is insinuate she works out (which would not explain how she looks, given the muscle mass she has achieveed would require a full time job of just working out, eating, and taking supplements, something that isn't possible in the world they crafted).

Its just Druckmann's social justice agenda that super fans will claim doesn't exist.

If the extent of the social justice agenda is a character being more built than you think is realistic I think we can all rest easy.
 

Chromata

Member
You mean a world were danger lurks at every corner? Her job as a soldier? The WLF faction wasn't exactly starved for food. They turned Century Link Stadium in to a farm. Its not unbelievable her daily rountine consisted of patrols/working out/eating.

Just to add to this, she lives next to a fully stacked gym and has been working out for many years (as shown by the flashbacks).
 

nyr88nyg

Banned
Gamespot spoilercast (again with stupidly high dislike ratio since I think they are spot on)... and the reviewer lady is cute AF :p


That Kallie Plagge gamespot reviewer has a good taste. She also really liked Death Stranding.
Also - I am super mad at the internet and the leaks. I wish I could experience this game without any leaks....


She has it backwards. The violent gameplay and visuals are top tier. If it had a good story the game would approach masterpiece level.
 

Paracelsus

Member
so if a doctor you never met said vivisecting your first born would save the world? you wouldn’t hand him over? What an asshole you must be,

I would ask them why you need to cut them right away, like immediately, instead of making absolutely sure that is the only way.
Like, the humanity is dead, what difference do a couple weeks or a couple months make?

Just to add to this, she lives next to a fully stacked gym and has been working out for many years (as shown by the flashbacks).

She looks bigger than a lot of olympic weightlifers off the juice. She's on the juice exactly like the model they used for her body.

 
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Woodchipper

Member
I finished the game earlier today and gave it a 9/10 in the OT, but I’m changing that to 7/10 here and now. The more I thought about it the more I came to realize that I did not enjoy playing as Abby at all. I simply don’t care about her, not one bit.

For me personally, this would’ve been a 10/10 if it had the exact same story, but had all the Abby bits removed. That would’ve made it a much more comfortable length as well.
 

yewles1

Member
I would ask them why you need to cut them right away, like immediately, instead of making absolutely sure that is the only way.
Like, the humanity is dead, what difference do a couple weeks or a couple months make?



She looks bigger than a lot of olympic weightlifers off the juice. She's on the juice exactly like the model they used for her body.

That model's actually pretty looking compared to Abby.
 

Chromata

Member
She looks bigger than a lot of olympic weightlifers off the juice. She's on the juice exactly like the model they used for her body.


My point is that her body isn't unattainable, but it's definitely on the "good genes"/"strong commitment" side.

It's doable without taking extreme supplements, perhaps not for everyone, but she is the only character in the game that's like this.
 

Spukc

always chasing the next thrill
Wow just finished the game. MASTERPIECE.
Just like TLOU was something else for the ps3.
So is 2 on ps4.

Absolute generational leap in story telling in games.

The feeling this game gave me when credits rolled only happened to me in the best movies.

Whithout abby being so fucking buffed.
The last fight would have meant nothing.

Just wow.
 
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Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
You mean a world were danger lurks at every corner? Her job as a soldier? The WLF faction wasn't exactly starved for food. They turned Century Link Stadium in to a farm. Its not unbelievable her daily rountine consisted of patrols/working out/eating.

It is unbelievable. We have plenty of evidence of female military who don't even look *close* to her build. Her build is literally based off of a crossfitter who eats, supplements and works out nearly 8-12 hours a day. Her build does not match the reality of the world they crafted.

If the extent of the social justice agenda is a character being more built than you think is realistic I think we can all rest easy.

Good thing it isn't and you know that. But any way to dismiss genuine criticism for the game, amiright? Plenty of others have already gone in depth here about the social justice agenda anyway. You know full well what they are, mate. If you agree with them, then so be it. But stop trying to act like it doesn't exist.
 
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Sethbacca

Member
So I just finished the game and maybe it's just me but when she's drowning Abby and then let's her go after the flashback seeing Joel on the porch. Then you see further the conversation with Joel and she tells him she can never forgive him but she wants to try. I keep seeing people ask why she let Abby go and it was basically spoon fed to you guys and you seemingly just don't get that she's trying to break the cycle like Abby did when she let her go in the theater.

I dunno, I loved it. It may not be the most elegant end of game in existence but it sets up a potential lost legacy style spinoff sequel for Abby and the fireflies and seemingly puts an end to Ellie and Joel's story. I feel like most of you are just on crack and I know I'm not gonna change any minds here but I feel like most of you missed the forest for the trees.
 

ZZZZ

Member
My point is that her body isn't unattainable, but it's definitely on the "good genes"/"strong commitment" side.

It's doable without taking extreme supplements, perhaps not for everyone, but she is the only character in the game that's like this.
I actually asked my nutritionist, she thinks it's not possible for a woman to get big like that with just working out and eating normal food, even if she has the genetics for it, she would need a balanced diet that would only be made in labs, like concentrated protein, L-Glutamine and some other stuff. Steroids would be the second option but that's clearly out as well. She said she's not 100% sure, but that's the conclusion she got to after working with hundreds of woman clients and years of study. Someone else may argue otherwise.

Still, the biggest problem to me with the game will always be plot contrivance and plot convenience followed by characters that honestly didn't interest me at all.
 

saintjules

Member
Game seems a bit buggy, previous streamer I was waching her character got stuck swimming in the air, other guy said he suffered several bugs, and just now this:



Master Piece my ass.


Rough spot for that to happen. Luckily I've not had one issue in the playthrough.
 

Paracelsus

Member
I think this would be an interesting point of debate for the people who defend Abby and the ending.

Case A: Same exact story, same exact characters, except Abby is a man. Everything else stays exactly the same, including personal relationships and conflicts. That would make male Abby bisexual by the way.
Case B: Same exact story, Abby is a woman, but they don't get captured by the Rattlers. Ellie finds Abby as bulky and powerful as she was in the beginning, she simply retired with Lev to some other farm.
 
It is unbelievable. We have plenty of evidence of female military who don't even look *close* to her build. Her build is literally based off of a crossfitter who eats, supplements and works out nearly 8-12 hours a day. Her build does not match the reality of the world they crafted.



Good thing it isn't and you know that. But any way to dismiss genuine criticism for the game, amiright? Plenty of others have already gone in depth here about the social justice agenda anyway. You know full well what they are, mate. If you agree with them, then so be it. But stop trying to act like it doesn't exist.

What genuine criticism? Who's gone in depth about the SJW agenda? Sorry, I'm not convinced by arguments like this, you know the overarching story has nothing to do with SJW crap and that the only things you guys think represent SJW agenda are technically window dressing, a gender here, a sexuality there, how a character appears here... nothing influential to the story or plot.
 

Thaedolus

Member
I’ve known a family of genetic freaks who’re all stacked where 3/4 girls look like Abby. The fact that she’s a freak (which Tommy calls out as built like an ox) is causing so many people to have drawn out debates is hilarious to me. Jesus Christ, the game was great, even if she hulk was overly muscular does it really matter? It’s a fucking zombie game based on a McGuffin story where a girl miraculously is immune to the zombie mushrooms. Oh no, one of the new main characters is exceptional herself. How unrealistic.
 

sendit

Member
It is unbelievable. We have plenty of evidence of female military who don't even look *close* to her build. Her build is literally based off of a crossfitter who eats, supplements and works out nearly 8-12 hours a day. Her build does not match the reality of the world they crafted.



Good thing it isn't and you know that. But any way to dismiss genuine criticism for the game, amiright? Plenty of others have already gone in depth here about the social justice agenda anyway. You know full well what they are, mate. If you agree with them, then so be it. But stop trying to act like it doesn't exist.

You do know that's a contradicting statement. Crossfit != (does not equal) 8-9hrs a day. WLF has a farm of livestock literally breeding in the middle of the stadium. Its not hard to imagine they're able to produce protein in large quantities. You don't need supplements to build muscle mass.

I've never seen a game so polarizing as this one. Is it because it's pushing against your social norms? I honestly don't care if they have some secret SJW agenda. From start to finish, the gender/looks of a character did not distract on what the story was actually about (cycle of revenge/forgiveness). For the ~24 hours it took for me to finish the game. There was not a single moment where I thought "ohh god, buff male/lady, SJW!!!!!".
 
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Yoboman

Member
I don’t. For all of TLoU II’s faults, technical ain’t one of them. It’s a remarkable technical achievement and I’d kill to be able to put that on my resume.

Didn’t work for me. At all.

Once Abby stoved Joel’s head in, it didn’t matter how many dogs I played with, Ferris wheels I jumped off of, aquariums I toured, had sex with my friend, or how many trans kids I saved. Nothing could overcome my dislike of her at that point. Perhaps had she earned the right to kill Joel by having me do that shit BEFORE she rearranged his brain matter with a 9 iron, I’d feel differently. But you know you’ve eseriously fucked up narratively when players literally don’t want to continue the game when they realize they have to play as this character after that fact.

I think it also didn’t help because Abby, on her own merits, really isn’t that compelling or endearing of a character. Even had she not murdered Joel, there’s nothing I found about her all that relatable or deep. What made Joel so interesting was the fact that we witnessed him losing a daughter right off the bat, so much of his character’s appeal was founded and built on the player’s empathy and sympathy for something good, something borne of love and loss. Everything we did as him from that point on, right or wrong, we viewed through that lens and understanding. With Abby though, we’re launching off with her on a basis of hate and vengeance. It’s close to the first thing we see of her that is at all meaningful, and hate is something that most people don’t relate to (or don’t want to), especially when it’s absent context, and especially when she kills a beloved character.

First impressions are important. I’ll always remember Joel as a loving man who began by losing his daughter, Ellie as a young, innocent naive girl who was curious about a lost world, and Abby? As a hateful, vindictive brute. She’s not interesting, likable, her entire character has been predicated upon hate, and I hope this is the last we see of her.
She is the antagonist. You dont have to like her
 
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