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[Redlight]

..............what?

Sony has that much support for the PS4, with games that are still being made for it that previous owners won't get left behind in a LOT of titles.

Sony wants to make titles that are exclusive to the PS5 hardware to make sure it stands out from the crowd.

If you think this is in anyway a bad thing...

You're a little miffed, and that's okay. But the board you're looking to post on is a long way away from here.

Let me simplify my point.

It's a virtual certainty that there will be games at the launch that might well run on PS4 with (relatively) simple downscaling. If Sony stops that from happening, for purely marketing reasons, would you be in favour of that?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I think you misunderstood. The user is just pointing out that games are made to be scalable. Games like The Witcher 3 on PC Ultra settings can also be made to run on something as weak as a Switch. This has been going on for decades. There is no reason to expect it can't continue.

The Switch's main weakness compared to current gen is in the GPU department, which Witcher was designed to run on. Ofc its scalable.

Come back when the switch tries running next gen games

 

[TearInto5th]

Let me simplify my point.

It's a virtual certainty that there will be games at the launch that might well run on PS4 with (relatively) simple downscaling. If Sony stops that from happening, for purely marketing reasons, would you be in favour of that?

But they have literally just said what they're doing. They will still support the PS4 and they will give us games that are not possible on anything but the PS5.

I'm not saying they will not have multi gen content, but it won't be coming from 1st parties, or 2nd party exclusives that don't cater to PC.

I don't know why you're talking about marketing reasons? Why waste the time on your "if" scenario when you can just create the content and show it to your audience.

They aren't fumbling like you think they are.

 

[Dick Jones]

Just "shinier"? We're talking native 4k/60fps on ultra settings vs 540/720p struggling to reach 30 fps with significantly downgraded settings. The Witcher 3 on PC ultra setting vs the Switch version is beyond a generational leap

I think you're expectations for PS5 are too high my friend.

You are making a great argument to buying a gaming PC than the XSX.

Let me simplify my point.

It's a virtual certainty that there will be games at the launch that might well run on PS4 with (relatively) simple downscaling. If Sony stops that from happening, for purely marketing reasons, would you be in favour of that?

Are you claiming that Sony are blocking 3rd parties from making cross gen games? There is no proof of this, you are speaking in conspiracy theory language.
Sony, like Microsoft build a game based on the console/consoles they want from the begining. It's not like Naughty Dog made the Last of Us Part II and Sony are blocking them from downgrading it so it can also play on PS3. That's what you're claiming.

Third party games will have the cross generational structure like the last few generations. We are talking about First Party games only. Microsoft FIRST PARTY games should be made to take advantage of the new console's power.

 

[Redlight]

Are you claiming that Sony are blocking 3rd parties from making cross gen games? There is no proof of this, you are speaking in conspiracy theory language.
Sony, like Microsoft build a game based on the console/consoles they want from the begining. It's not like Naughty Dog made the Last of Us Part II and Sony are blocking them from downgrading it so it can also play on PS3. That's what you're claiming.

Third party games will have the cross generational structure like the last few generations. We are talking about First Party games only. Microsoft FIRST PARTY games should be made to take advantage of the new console's power.

It might be best if you responded to the content of my actual post as opposed to, well, whatever the above is.

 

[Redlight]

But they have literally just said what they're doing. They will still support the PS4 and they will give us games that are not possible on anything but the PS5.

I'm not saying they will not have multi gen content, but it won't be coming from 1st parties, or 2nd party exclusives that don't cater to PC.

So, if there are Sony games, sold only on PS5, that could be run on the PS4 if downscaled appropriately, then you'd be against it. Good.

 

[Dick Jones]

It might be best if you responded to the content of my actual post as opposed to, well, whatever the above is.

To be clear we are talking about First Party games only.

You are talking about an non existent situation, there is no proof that Sony are mandating their studios to not make a PS4 version of a PS5 game that could be easily downgraded. There would be alot of resources in making that work. Sony's PS5 first party games are to take advantage of the PS5 and not upscaling a PS4 game. That's what MS are limiting themselves to.

It is likely that MS developers that have to make cross gen first party games are making an Xbox One game and upgrading it rather than making a XSX game and downgrading it. It's easier to upgrade from one to the other than downgrade. These games will be up-res current gen games and not new gen.

If all Xbox games will be playable on the PC, why choose an Xbox over PC in that case? You are only worried about resolution so PC makes sense.

 

[TearInto5th]

Of course I'm against it, this is a big generational leap, and nothing should be held back.

 

[JTCx]

So, if there are Sony games, sold only on PS5, that could be run on the PS4 if downscaled appropriately, then you'd be against it. Good.

You should go tell Square Enix and Bungie that they're being anti consumer for not continuing FFXIV and Destiny for PS3.

 

[Shmunter]

So, if there are Sony games, sold only on PS5, that could be run on the PS4 if downscaled appropriately, then you'd be against it. Good.

I’m against last gen releases when a new gen arrives. Games take years to develop, so you will see many releasing on last gen which are far enough into development unable to change direction. But once PS5 is out, and you start a new project targeting old consoles, you’re no gaming pioneer, your a bean counter rolling out product.

New gen needs mass adoption to create the user base supporting sales and drive tech and the medium forward. There is no room in a tech driven industry for some social justice mentality beholden to looking after little Timmy by giving him new games on his antique box, it’s about looking forward, next gen replacing the last gen. Necessity is the mother of all invention.

 

[geordiemp]

Let me simplify my point.

It's a virtual certainty that there will be games at the launch that might well run on PS4 with (relatively) simple downscaling. If Sony stops that from happening, for purely marketing reasons, would you be in favour of that?

You can only downscale the resolution and frame rate only.

You cannot downscale those 20 enemies with unique anmations movements and AI (Zen 2) to 4 simpler enemies for Jaguar.

Zen 2 is at least 5 x performant of Jaguar, you cant scale 500 %, probably allot more when you get into bandwidth, decompeession, culling and other stuff offloaded from the CPU.

You cannot downscale the rendering technology from 9 GBS assets from SSD to 20 MBS slow ass HDD, thats > 100 x.

You cannot downscale 3D audio but can just disable it.

They would be 2 different games, Zen2 to Jaguar and M2 SSD to HDD does not scale.

And you really think Sony first party would use only 15 % of the Zen CPU and 1 % of the SSD to make it so they can downscale it to Ps4.

This is Sony not MS games for Gamepass. Thats not what next gen is about is it.

 

[bad guy]

Something. Wow!

 

[eastwood333]

The Switch's main weakness compared to current gen is in the GPU department, which Witcher was designed to run on. Ofc its scalable.

Come back when the switch tries running next gen games

Switch games won't be able to run next gen, but current gen XB1/PS4 games can certaintly be effective at running on next gen systems with lower resolutions, lower framerates, lower draw distances, lower textures,polygons, much slower loading,less shadows, no ray tracing etc.... It's all about how much effort said dev puts into it.

Halo Ininifite will be no slouch on the more powerful XSX with RT despite being on XB1.

 

[eastwood333]

You can only downscale the resolution and frame rate only.

You cannot downscale those 20 enemies with unique anmations movements and AI (Zen 2) to 4 simpler enemies for Jaguar.

Zen 2 is at least 5 x performant of Jaguar, you cant scale 500 %, probably allot more when you get into bandwidth, decompeession, culling and other stuff offloaded from the CPU.

You cannot downscale the rendering technology from 9 GBS assets from SSD to 20 MBS slow ass HDD, thats > 100 x.

You cannot downscale 3D audio but can just disable it.

They would be 2 different games, Zen2 to Jaguar and M2 SSD to HDD does not scale.

And you really think Sony first party would use only 15 % of the Zen CPU and 1 % of the SSD to make it so they can downscale it to Ps4.

This is Sony not MS games for Gamepass. Thats not what next gen is about is it.

You can downscale the animation framerates in the near distance. Games are doing that now. I don't think 3D audio is a big selling point. People aren't going to skip out on a game based on whether it has 3D audio.

PC have far better CPUs etc to get many games running at 120fps, while the console versions run at 30/60fps. That's called....scaleing!

 

[eastwood333]

You are making a great argument to buying a gaming PC than the XSX.

My arguement is simple. Game scaling has been going on for years and will continue. The Witcher 3 is a prime example of how scaling can work.

I'm not worried about XSX. Its the most powerful next gen console and Hellblade 2, Gears 6, The Initiatives new game,Playgrounds new Fable, Obsidians new big rpg are all using UE. Halo Infinite will be a tech showcase on XSX,despite being on XB1. I am confident that seeing Hellblade 2, Halo Infinite, The Initiatives new game,Playgrounds new Fable will all be tech showcases and will quickly put this "cross gen will kill Xbox" narrative to rest.[/QUOTE]

 

[geordiemp]

You can downscale the animation framerates in the near distance. Games are doing that now. I don't think 3D audio is a big selling point. People aren't going to skip out on a game based on whether it has 3D audio.

PC have far better CPUs etc to get many games running at 120fps, while the console versions run at 30/60fps. Scaleing!

You can scale up from Jaguar (Toaster) to anything, Zen2 / i3 / my washing machine (lol)

Game scaling has being going on for years when the game was deisgned around jaguar (toaster). Its not hard to understand.

You cannot scale down from Zen2 target game to Jaguar. Your so funny.

Only way scaling works is if the game is made for Jaguar and HDD (Limited scope) and then upscaled to PC / Next gen consoles. IE a last gen game upscaled.

Any game made for next gen will not scale back, does not work that way. Go read some hardware / electronics books.

 

[Tulipanzo]

Having exclusives is completely normal and expected in every single console generation.
A new console generation should clearly strive to achieve games not previously possible.

MS's approach is frankly bizarre here, and will bite them in the ass.

 

[Shmunter]

My arguement is simple. Game scaling has been going on for years and will continue. The Witcher 3 is a prime example of how scaling can work.

I'm not worried about XSX. Its the most powerful next gen console and Hellblade 2, Gears 6, The Initiatives new game,Playgrounds new Fable, Obsidians new big rpg are all using UE. Halo Infinite will be a tech showcase on XSX,despite being on XB1. I am confident that seeing Hellblade 2, Halo Infinite, The Initiatives new game,Playgrounds new Fable will all be tech showcases and will quickly put this "cross gen will kill Xbox" narrative to rest.

The scaling you are talking about is all skin deep veneer to the same game. You do not see sliders for gameplay systems, AI, complex world simulation, etc

The actual scope of the game is strictly tied to the lowest common denominator, the shitty console CPU’s. That’s why you can port the Witcher 3 to a mobile device.

Next gen with more cpu, more ram, and much improved I/o to feed it all will raise the baseline significantly. Imagine what a next gen Elder Scrolls could be like without it needing to be an Xbox One game.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Having exclusives is completely normal and expected in every single console generation.
A new console generation should clearly strive to achieve games not previously possible.

MS's approach is frankly bizarre here, and will bite them in the ass.

But that is why I outright refuse to believe MS did this intentionally; it is so bizarre that it can't possibly be what is really going on. Hence my post earlier that claim MS 1st party missed their deadline for launch. and MS is making excuses ahead of time.

The incredible thing isn't that MS is telling such a blatant lie; the incredible thing is that so many are prepared to believe it.

 

[Peenolia010]

Imagine its ALL black, everything aboutthe PS5 is pure black. When you play it your heart turns black and your soul is given an obsidian-like sheen - they repel all intrusion but also prevent human connection and love.

Basically what I'm saying is I think PS5 is going to usher in the Human Instrumentality Project, if we see Cerny with his hands clasped in from of his mouth its time to worry.

Imagine its ALL black, everything aboutthe PS5 is pure black. When you play it your heart turns black and your soul is given an obsidian-like sheen - they repel all intrusion but also prevent human connection and love.

Basically what I'm saying is I think PS5 is going to usher in the Human Instrumentality Project, if we see Cerny with his hands clasped in from of his mouth its time to worry.

Basically what I'm saying is I think PS5 is going to usher in the Human Instrumentality Project, if we see Cerny with his hands clasped in from of his mouth its time to worry.

With the title quote, I was hyped. Microsoft has me excited for the Series X, but for some reason the PS5 gives me that next gen feel. Thursday can't come soon enough.

 

[Tulipanzo]

But that is why I outright refuse to believe MS did this intentionally; it is so bizarre that it can't possibly be what is really going on. Hence my post earlier that claim MS 1st party missed their deadline for launch. and MS is making excuses ahead of time.

The incredible thing isn't that MS is telling such a blatant lie; the incredible thing is that so many are prepared to believe it.

I don't think their reasoning is unbelievable, I just don't believe it to be sound.
Some exclusives may not make it by launch, but these multi-year projects can not just all be late: it has to be intentional.

The idea is to keep all titles available everywhere to not devalue subscriptions, while letting a few small third party devs (Scorn, Medium) make exclusives for you to add just a little extra "value".
This is a headass strategy frankly:
1) Making games working on both gens limits creativity and increases cost
2) It's harder to market next-gen consoles with cross-gen titles, and considering all they have is a 15% very theoretical GPU advantage, the "most powerful console" marketing will fall very flat*
3) If they are launching a Lockhart, butchered next-gen features AND no games ensures it will bomb even harder

Ultimately, their strategy makes sense, it's just not sensible given the hardware they are trying to sell and their competition.




*As it did on PS3, fun fact. The PS3 was more powerful, but had huge issues showing that consistently or in meaningful ways.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Gamers will fall in love with the PS5

 

[Peenolia010]

The decision to force backwards compatibility is Microsoft's latest Kinect. I'll spend my $500 for the system that plays games that aren't nerfed to play on old hardware.

People are trying to make this decision by Microsoft seem like a blunder, and its not. Not all games for the Series X will follow suit, as I'm sure it's a first party decision, where third parties can opt not to.

Besides, won't next gen games take 2 years minimum, 4 to 5 years top? I can understand if that's a choice don't like, but I have a hard time believing Microsoft's decision to make there games cross platform compatible for the next 2 years as detrimental as the Kinect blunder.

 

[Dick Jones]

My arguement is simple. Game scaling has been going on for years and will continue. The Witcher 3 is a prime example of how scaling can work.

I'm not worried about XSX. Its the most powerful next gen console and Hellblade 2, Gears 6, The Initiatives new game,Playgrounds new Fable, Obsidians new big rpg are all using UE. Halo Infinite will be a tech showcase on XSX,despite being on XB1. I am confident that seeing Hellblade 2, Halo Infinite, The Initiatives new game,Playgrounds new Fable will all be tech showcases and will quickly put this "cross gen will kill Xbox" narrative to rest.

You are happy enough with Gears 6 to be tied to Xbox One limitations as well, okay that's your opinion. What I'm arguing for is imagine what Gears 6 could become when the developers only have to concentrate on the XSX.

I'm actually trying to argue for MS to release a new must have console. All this shows is that MS should hold back releasing the XSX by another 18 months if it can't offer anything new not already on Xbox One.

Also please explain why I, the consumer should buy an Xbox Series X and not stick with my Xbox One, invest in a high end Gaming PC or PS5? Sony will have exclusive games only playable on one console, the PS5, so what is XSX's USP? The world's most powerful console but we don't take advantage of it. It's wasted potential.

I want Xbox to be successful as competition is good for the final consumer. I think that this plan is a mistake and will hurt MS, not as bad as Don Mattrick levels but it will hurt them.

 

[Tulipanzo]

People are trying to make this decision by Microsoft seem like a blunder, and its not. Not all games for the Series X will follow suit, as I'm sure it's a first party decision, where third parties can opt not to.

Besides, won't next gen games take 2 years minimum, 4 to 5 years top? I can understand if that's a choice don't like, but I have a hard time believing Microsoft's decision to make there games cross platform compatible for the next 2 years as detrimental as the Kinect blunder.

It's worse actually, because MS eventually removed the Kinect after launch, while if they course correct now we'd only see results in late 2021 at the earliest.

Games take a long time to develop; consoles can take just as long. Cerny started talking to devs about it in 2015.
MS decided quite some time ago that all of their projects wouldn't be allowed to focus on next-gen

This will make the Series X the first console in history to launch without exclusives.
Yes, even the Stadia had at least one.

 

[Peenolia010]

I want Xbox to be successful as competition is good for the final consumer. I think that this plan is a mistake and will hurt MS, not as bad as Don Mattrick levels but it will hurt them.

If you don't mind me asking. How many first party game you think Sony will have that take advantage of the PS5 by launch?

 

[Dick Jones]

People are trying to make this decision by Microsoft seem like a blunder, and its not. Not all games for the Series X will follow suit, as I'm sure it's a first party decision, where third parties can opt not to.

Besides, won't next gen games take 2 years minimum, 4 to 5 years top? I can understand if that's a choice don't like, but I have a hard time believing Microsoft's decision to make there games cross platform compatible for the next 2 years as detrimental as the Kinect blunder.

This is about First Party Games only. MS have mandated that XSX first party games also be scaled down to work on Xbone. Sony are separating their first party games post GOT to be PS5 only.

Third party can do what they want. We will see some developers like EA and Ubisoft make games that are scaled for both current and next for a few years and other developers will concentrate on next gen only. The only mandate Sony have for Third Parties is that PS4 games released in July onwards must also be playable on PS5. That is it.

 

[Peenolia010]

It's worse actually, because MS eventually removed the Kinect after launch, while if they course correct now we'd only see results in late 2021 at the earliest.

Games take a long time to develop; consoles can take just as long. Cerny started talking to devs about it in 2015.
MS decided quite some time ago that all of their projects wouldn't be allowed to focus on next-gen

This will make the Series X the first console in history to launch without exclusives.
Yes, even the Stadia had at least one.

I'm not going to assume what games both companies will have at launce. What I will say is I don't remember Sony having a heavy hitter for the launch of the PS4 and it didn't matter in the end. So again, putting so much emphasis on Microsoft's decision to go cross platform compatible is being blown out of proportion. We know these systems start taking strides around year 2.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Switch games won't be able to run next gen, but current gen XB1/PS4 games can certaintly be effective at running on next gen systems with lower resolutions, lower framerates, lower draw distances, lower textures,polygons, much slower loading,less shadows, no ray tracing etc.... It's all about how much effort said dev puts into it.

Halo Ininifite will be no slouch on the more powerful XSX with RT despite being on XB1.

Just look at the list of things you've given. Near enough all of it revolves around the scalability of the GPU.

The GPU isn't the thing developers are hyped about in case you haven't noticed.

 

[Peenolia010]

This is about First Party Games only. MS have mandated that XSX first party games also be scaled down to work on Xbone. Sony are separating their first party games post GOT to be PS5 only.

Third party can do what they want. We will see some developers like EA and Ubisoft make games that are scaled for both current and next for a few years and other developers will concentrate on next gen only. The only mandate Sony have for Third Parties is that PS4 games released in July onwards must also be playable on PS5. That is it.

I agree with what you're saying. My one question is how many AAA games from Sony do you think will be available in the launch window of the PS5 to make the argument valid enough to categorically say the Microsoft's decision is a negative one?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I agree with what you're saying. My one question is how many AAA games from Sony do you think will be available in the launch window of the PS5 to make the argument valid enough to categorically say the Microsoft's decision is a negative one?

Hard to give an answer when we have no idea what games they'll have.

HZD 2 is guaranteed to be one. Assuming it launches in that timeframe

Maybe Ratchet & Clank if its not just some budget title. Entirely depends on what scale they're going for

 

[MasterCornholio]

That the 1st party Next Gen Xbox games are in production, but they are not going to make it at launch or even NEAR launch.

With them bragging about the power that would be very bad for them especially if the competition has next gen looking games at launch. It can be harder for them to sell their power factor if they can't prove it with next gen looking game. In the worst case scenario their cross gen games will just look like XB1 games (The Original XB1) at high resolutions.

However they still have time to prove themselves so it's just better to wait and see what happens.

If we are giving Sony a chance with their PS5 event there's no reason why we shouldn't do the same with Xbox.

 

[Redlight]

I’m against last gen releases when a new gen arrives. Games take years to develop, so you will see many releasing on last gen which are far enough into development unable to change direction. But once PS5 is out, and you start a new project targeting old consoles, you’re no gaming pioneer, your a bean counter rolling out product.

New gen needs mass adoption to create the user base supporting sales and drive tech and the medium forward. There is no room in a tech driven industry for some social justice mentality beholden to looking after little Timmy by giving him new games on his antique box, it’s about looking forward, next gen replacing the last gen. Necessity is the mother of all invention.

It's not matter of 'targeting' current-gen and I'm not sure that mass adoption should be the consumers concern. Supporting a policy that's bad for current customers only because it's great for the bottom line of an international corporation is, well, odd.

It's quite possible that some early next gen games would be easily scaleable. Not allowing that would be anti-consumer. So, if Sony deliberately bars PS5 games from PS4, even if they could downscale readily, you would support that?

It seems we've crossed the border of 'customer' and have driven deep into 'disciple' territory.

 

[Tulipanzo]

I'm not going to assume what games both companies will have at launce. What I will say is I don't remember Sony having a heavy hitter for the launch of the PS4 and it didn't matter in the end. So again, putting so much emphasis on Microsoft's decision to go cross platform compatible is being blown out of proportion. We know these systems start taking strides around year 2.

This is generally ignorant of even basic recent console history.
Acting as if every launch exclusive is Knack-tier is already daft (the Switch just launched ffs), but it also misunderstands why launch exclusives exist at all.

The PS4-XB1 launches had plenty of titles to sell people on the concept of next-gen, which is where the Series X will most suffer.
Killzone Shadowfall quality is less important than the fact it looked better than anything else at the time. Next-gen is here.
This helps sell consoles irrespective of quality.
More recently, BotW worked to convince people the Switch could handle big, complex open worlds, and AAA level quality, something the WiiU famously failed to do. The launch quality is a cherry on top.

Besides, MS's approach doesn't benefit quality in the slightest.
Launch devs still have to deliver visually impressive titles, just with an extra platform to support on top.
This will lead to hamstrung next-gen games, with poorly running current gen versions.
Let's compare:
A MS first-party studio will have to support 6 SKUs: XB1, XB1S, X1X, Lockhart, Series X and PC
A Sony/Nintendo first-party? 1, either PS5 or Switch

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

It's not matter of 'targeting' current-gen and I'm not sure that mass adoption should be the consumers concern. Supporting a policy that's bad for current customers only because it's great for the bottom line of an international corporation is, well, odd.

Why is it bad for current customers? People buy PS4 to play PS4 games. To complain that it can't run PS5 games is like complaining that your new car can't also fly or be a fully functional submarine. There had never been a time when it is considered a bad thing that SNES games can't be run on the NES. Why start now?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

It's not matter of 'targeting' current-gen and I'm not sure that mass adoption should be the consumers concern. Supporting a policy that's bad for current customers only because it's great for the bottom line of an international corporation is, well, odd.

It's quite possible that some early next gen games would be easily scaleable. Not allowing that would be anti-consumer. So, if Sony deliberately bars PS5 games from PS4, even if they could downscale readily, you would support that?

It seems we've crossed the border of 'customer' and have driven deep into 'disciple' territory.

Shits 7 years old now. It's not anti-consumer to drop support for it and focus solely on your newest tech. Such a dumb buzzword to use when you don't like a companies direction

They can either move on with the rest of us, or stay current gen with the thousands of games you have until you're ready to move.

 

[Shmunter]

It's not matter of 'targeting' current-gen and I'm not sure that mass adoption should be the consumers concern. Supporting a policy that's bad for current customers only because it's great for the bottom line of an international corporation is, well, odd.

It's quite possible that some early next gen games would be easily scaleable. Not allowing that would be anti-consumer. So, if Sony deliberately bars PS5 games from PS4, even if they could downscale readily, you would support that?

It seems we've crossed the border of 'customer' and have driven deep into 'disciple' territory.

Mass adoption for a consumers product that lives and dies on its Sales success is certainly in the customers interest.

I’m sorry I’m not able to make sense of your reasoning? Are you suggestion releasing games exclusively on a next gen system with smaller user base is better for the bottom line?

I think you have it reversed. All the risk lies in a new gen. Doing nothing is the path of least resistance, less risk, and more profit. Moving to a new gen is the costly proposition.

Regarding games It’s not just about scalability, it’s about forward momentum by offering new things on the new system and cutting ties with the old. It’s a wholistic approach, whether it’s AAA or Pac-Man.

 

[Redlight]

You can only downscale the resolution and frame rate only.

You cannot downscale those 20 enemies with unique anmations movements and AI (Zen 2) to 4 simpler enemies for Jaguar.

Zen 2 is at least 5 x performant of Jaguar, you cant scale 500 %, probably allot more when you get into bandwidth, decompeession, culling and other stuff offloaded from the CPU.

You cannot downscale the rendering technology from 9 GBS assets from SSD to 20 MBS slow ass HDD, thats > 100 x.

You cannot downscale 3D audio but can just disable it.

They would be 2 different games, Zen2 to Jaguar and M2 SSD to HDD does not scale.

And you really think Sony first party would use only 15 % of the Zen CPU and 1 % of the SSD to make it so they can downscale it to Ps4.

This is Sony not MS games for Gamepass. Thats not what next gen is about is it.

Some next-gen games may, legitimately, not be possible on older hardware, however that was never my point, I asked simply...

If Sony stops (downscaling) from happening, for purely marketing reasons, would you be in favour of that?

It's a simple question with a yes or no answer. For mine, only the most dedicated of fans would be OK with that kind of anti-consumer behaviour.

 

[Redlight]

Shits 7 years old now. It's not anti-consumer to drop support for it and focus solely on your newest tech. Such a dumb buzzword to use when you don't like a companies direction

They can either move on with the rest of us, or stay current gen with the thousands of games you have until you're ready to move.

Simple question that remains unanswered...if Sony deliberately bars PS5 games from PS4, even if they could downscale readily, you would support that?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Simple question that remains unanswered...if Sony deliberately bars PS5 games from PS4, even if they could downscale readily, you would support that?

You've already received your answer. You're more interested in gaslighting though

 

[Shmunter]

Simple question that remains unanswered...if Sony deliberately bars PS5 games from PS4, even if they could downscale readily, you would support that?

Yes, it’s time to transition away from the old into the new. Any releases on the old is prolonging it’s life support.

Even Sony is clear, they are expecting an expedient transition to the next gen. If they could snap their fingers the ps4 would be dead the day PS5 arrives and everyone was on that.

 

[Peenolia010]

This is generally ignorant of even basic recent console history.
Acting as if every launch exclusive is Knack-tier is already daft (the Switch just launched ffs), but it also misunderstands why launch exclusives exist at all.

The PS4-XB1 launches had plenty of titles to sell people on the concept of next-gen, which is where the Series X will most suffer.
Killzone Shadowfall quality is less important than the fact it looked better than anything else at the time. Next-gen is here.
This helps sell consoles irrespective of quality.
More recently, BotW worked to convince people the Switch could handle big, complex open worlds, and AAA level quality, something the WiiU famously failed to do. The launch quality is a cherry on top.

Besides, MS's approach doesn't benefit quality in the slightest.
Launch devs still have to deliver visually impressive titles, just with an extra platform to support on top.
This will lead to hamstrung next-gen games, with poorly running current gen versions.
Let's compare:
A MS first-party studio will have to support 6 SKUs: XB1, XB1S, X1X, Lockhart, Series X and PC
A Sony/Nintendo first-party? 1, either PS5 or Switch

Graphically speaking, the PS5 won't have the luxury of being able to outclass the Series X, so it will be using other methods which in my opinion will be the SSD.

Again a lot of your points are well received but I'm just not seeing how it puts one company over the other on this topic alone. There are other factors that will give Sony the edge over Microsoft in some aspects, MS having multiple platform compatibility isn't one in my opinion.

Sony had the graphics, price, and customer trust going in to this gen. It worked tremendously. Next gen is a mystery for now as we've yet to see both companies show their entire hand.

 

[Redlight]

Mass adoption for a consumers product that lives and dies on its Sales success is certainly in the customers interest.

I’m sorry I’m not able to make sense of your reasoning? Are you suggestion releasing games exclusively on a next gen system with smaller user base is better for the bottom line?

I think you have it reversed. All the risk lies in a new gen. Doing nothing is the path of least resistance, less risk, and more profit. Moving to a new gen is the costly proposition.

Regarding games It’s not just about scalability, it’s about forward momentum by offering new things on the new system and cutting ties with the old. It’s a wholistic approach, whether it’s AAA or Pac-Man.

I'm not sure why it's a difficult concept. In the early launch period there may be games that are perfectly capable of running on older hardware by scaling resolution/framerates etc.

Wouldn't it be better for Sony users if those games were available to all PS4/PS5 fans? There would still be clear advantages for PS5 users as they'd have the definitive edition, much like PS4 Pro.

Or are you so dedicated to the brand that you're happy for existing customers to be shut out of those titles, not because of technical constraints, but purely for marketing reasons?


EDIT* Shmunter already answered above while I was typing this.

 

[Dick Jones]

I agree with what you're saying. My one question is how many AAA games from Sony do you think will be available in the launch window of the PS5 to make the argument valid enough to categorically say the Microsoft's decision is a negative one?

Some games that MS have in development I could see being cross gen, but if the next Halo was XSX exclusive, wouldn't the XSX have a better chance of dominating the next generation than implying that Xbox players don't need to upgrade really the next 2 years as you can still play all the future games on your current system.

I expect the next Horizon Zero Dawn game to be the big Day One PS5 game. It's not that the game may blow current gen gaming out of water, but if I can only play it on PS5, I have to buy a PS5 to play it. I'm arguing that why would I buy a PS5 if the showcase next week says all first party PS5 games announced will also be playable on PS4. I'd keep the PS4 for a while longer as there is little incentive to upgrade if I can play HZD2 on my PS4. It is not the games per se but it's the fear of missing out.

Microsoft have the strongest machine on paper, why not take advantage? Make it must have with special features and games.

The main worry I have is by the time MS allow its developers concentrate solely on XSX, PS5 may have the next gen wrapped up.

 

[geordiemp]

Some next-gen games may, legitimately, not be possible on older hardware, however that was never my point, I asked simply...


It's a simple question with a yes or no answer. For mine, only the most dedicated of fans would be OK with that kind of anti-consumer behaviour.

No is the obvious answer.

But that scenario would never happen, games made for Zen 2 will use zen 2 and SSD simple as that.

HZ2 Aloy there was a tweat main character in HZD2 will use more plygons than the entire cast of the first game.

Game engines will pull out of 1 st gear and go into fifth using different set up for streaming and assets, there is no going back.

And ps5 games by sony first party I can guarantee would not stand a chance in hell on any system with a Jaguar and HDD.

 

[CrysisFreak]

This is EXACTLY what I wanted to hear.
Fuck loading time, fuck LOD transitions, fuck Jaguar cores and most importantly bless the new generation.

 

[wipeout364]

I just look at Sony’s statement and think ok so your engineers still can’t get software backwards compatibility working after all these years. To me why would they not include it ; two possible reasons come to mind, cost or they unable to get it working consistently and they are running out of runway.

It’s amazing To me that people just buy the PR line that oh yeah we want to give people something original when it’s so obvious that this is damage control. Revolutionary experiences, give me a break. Maybe I’ll be shocked but I doubt it.

edit: just want to say I will be there for day one(if I can get them) for both consoles so this is not an anti Sony post. I love both of them and want them to succeed. I just look at all the fantastic Sony games we’ve lost access to and it makes me sad. I was Watching my son play crimson skies on Xbox one last night and it brings home the point to me.

 

[Peenolia010]

Hard to give an answer when we have no idea what games they'll have.

HZD 2 is guaranteed to be one. Assuming it launches in that timeframe

Maybe Ratchet & Clank if its not just some budget title. Entirely depends on what scale they're going for

I have yet to play HZD, I'm patiently waiting (and hoping) that the PS5 will add to the game, as well as the other AAA titles.

Based on the reception HZD has garnered, I believe it can do damaged at the launch of PS5. Ratchet and Clank is a good as well but it's hard to say from either side. June 4th will be very telling.

 

[Redlight]

...The PS4-XB1 launches had plenty of titles to sell people on the concept of next-gen, which is where the Series X will most suffer.
Killzone Shadowfall quality is less important than the fact it looked better than anything else at the time. Next-gen is here.
This helps sell consoles irrespective of quality.

You speak as if the only games at launch are first party, however the vast majority of games are third-party.

Third-party developers can do whatever they like.

Next gen power and features will be on full display on BOTH consoles at launch, even if your 'old tech holds Xbox first-party back' scenario proved true.

 

[geordiemp]

I just look at Sony’s statement and think ok so your engineers still can’t get software backwards compatibility working after all these years. To me why would they not include it ; two possible reasons come to mind, cost or they unable to get it working consistently and they are running out of runway.

It’s amazing To me that people just buy the PR line that oh yeah we want to give people something original when it’s so obvious that this is damage control. Revolutionary experiences, give me a break. Maybe I’ll be shocked but I doubt it.

You are either trolling or dont understand computing hardware ...which is it ?

Ps3 is a different architecture, you do know that surely. Ps4 games will be compatible as x86.

Also you know about software API and abstraction layers of course, pros and cons I am sure, if not go and read up before making stupid statements.