Chuckie
Member
If you had said this about Rogue One I could have at least seen your point.... but TFA is not gritty at all....and it is full of humour, especially Finn + Rey and BB-8
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JJ Abrams to direct Star Wars Episode IX, Chris Terrio co-writing, now due Dec 2019
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If you had said this about Rogue One I could have at least seen your point.... but TFA is not gritty at all....and it is full of humour, especially Finn + Rey and BB-8
Inferno313
Banned
Just a note that "The Lucas Stuff" is ANH, and the three prequels, if we're talking about the stuff that he actually directed.
And for that matter, The Force Awakens is considerably more fun, campy, and goofy than two of the three prequels.
>Han and Leia end up not living happily ever after
>Luke's Jedi Academy fails
>Luke becomes a hermit who abandons his friends and family
>Han loses the Millennium Falcon for years
>The Empire isn't completely defeated
>The new leads of the movie/franchise are unknowns while the original leads are pushed to supporting roles
>The New Republic is pretty much obliterated
>Main villain isn't some stoic badass, but is a whiny insecure man child
>Han dies in a failed act of desperation
But yeah, TFA was safe
>Luke's Jedi Academy fails
>Luke becomes a hermit who abandons his friends and family
>Han loses the Millennium Falcon for years
>The Empire isn't completely defeated
>The new leads of the movie/franchise are unknowns while the original leads are pushed to supporting roles
>The New Republic is pretty much obliterated
>Main villain isn't some stoic badass, but is a whiny insecure man child
>Han dies in a failed act of desperation
But yeah, TFA was safe
I also think JJ did not do a great job mixing it into the movie. The score feels very understated at times, and not because of how the compositions were written, but because the volume is often just too low.
And now that I think of it, this is actually something I would be concerned about with JJ doing IX!
This is a really bizarre argument. If artists wanting to take a certain risk then inherently makes it not risky, just by virtue of being wanted, then ultimately there is no such thing as risk!
Probably the most important thing we've learned from this thread is that different rules apply to TFA as opposed to the OT.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
You guys Schwarz might be a bot, he's certainly not someone who has really thought about any of the shit he's saying.
Yeah, I mentioned it upthread that one of my nitpicks for TFA was the score/sound mixing. A lot of what Williams did is in there, it's just kinda buried.
(Plus, again, how's this for nitpicky: That opening note is just... it's not right.)
Yeah, I mentioned it upthread that one of my nitpicks for TFA was the score/sound mixing. A lot of what Williams did is in there, it's just kinda buried.
(Plus, again, how's this for nitpicky: That opening note is just... it's not right.)
That would explain why he put human drama in quotes
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Goofy? Jar jar binks wants a word with yo ass. Unlimited power too wants a word with you. Anakin trying to act in the later films... etc
More fun? Hello? Pod racing baby! Ben and Anakin had some good chase scenes.
I can't remember any scenes of open weeping in the prequels.
Prequels are far lighter than TFA. The first one definitely.
Inferno313
Banned
That's why I said "two of the three prequels." Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith are considerably more "grimdark" than The Force Awakens.
Also
"I can't remember any scenes of open weeping in the prequels"
like what
FriendlyGoat
Member
I think when people talk about "safe" decisions, the fear is that "safe" decisions will neuter the story. Just look at Han's underwhelming presence in Return of the Jedi as the perfect example. I mean, the already established safe decision was to keep him alive at the end of RotJ to sell toys.
So when talking about the relative "safety" of JJ as a director, it seems to me that JJ and the people in charge have a willingness to go forward with what is necessary to tell a good story. This includes killing Han, the entire crew of Rogue One, and maybe even the Jedi. Yes it's a billion dollar property and they aren't going to go out there and NOT make money, but concerns of the relative adversity to risk as it relates to storytelling don't seem to be shaking out.
Okay, I think I see where you're coming from now, and I agree: TFA is definitely not as unintentionally funny as the prequels were.
This thread is truly lost.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This is a really good way to put it that I hope a lot of the people mashing the big red SAFE button like it's a fully-stocked super look at for a second.
But having all the OT heroes be godlike badasses would have been far more satisfactory and infinitely more original.
The dumb fan service in this film was taken to the extreme. How could they just take it in the safe, predictable route everyone expected, that Han/Leia/Luke would be imperfect characters who still face challenges and need up and coming heroes to continue the fight and help them out? Everyone KNEW Luke would leave everything behind and search for answers from the first Jedi temple.
Things really got out of hand in this film
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Well that's because the story is a pretty tragic one but they sure do try to make it as kinetic as possible.
The final fight between Ben and Anakin yeah its sad but you still get the ludicrous spectacle of them balancing on those mining drones and fighting around the machine foundry etc. It still tries to be light
As opposed to standing around in a snowy forest and mugging at each other and occasionally crying
I vaguely remember Portman balling one time or another. And Anakin came close when he was crying about sand and unfairness.
And of course there was all the open weeping in the audience as our beloved franchise was drawn and quartered in front of us.
Chuckie
Member
Jar-jar was a disaster....and the rest is cringe worthy unintentionally 'funny'.
And because TFA doesn't have that it is 'gritty'....
Ok.
Inferno313
Banned
me in any star wars thread
It's a shame that this was all they could give Academy Award winner Natalie Portman to do.
Inferno313
Banned
Chuckie
Member
me in any star wars thread
Seriously.
I think I am going to try to avoid them.
I won't succeed
Herr Schwarz
Banned
So fucking gritty, ugh.
And that's why we all had to have a heavy dose of Yub Nub in the next movie.
This is the weirdest complaint I've seen in a while. Do you honestly think that was GL attempting to be "light"?
God forbid there's actually decent emotional resonance in my beautiful SW
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That sequence was probably the best thing Lucas directed after his return.
I really wanted to like EP3. It's good good moments and it's so close to getting on the right track in a lot of ways. And then the ham arrives
About every minute
Literally every single serious scene in the end of EP3 is attached to some hammy fucking dialogue or acting
I actually enjoy rewatching it just for Ian's crazy ass antics. That man is the heart and soul of EP3. His ham is fucking unstoppable
About every minute
Literally every single serious scene in the end of EP3 is attached to some hammy fucking dialogue or acting
I actually enjoy rewatching it just for Ian's crazy ass antics. That man is the heart and soul of EP3. His ham is fucking unstoppable
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
The appallingly safe Return of the Jedi sequel brings back Luke fucking Skywalker just long enough to say exactly nothing because he was too busy hiding after running away on account of being a massive fucking failure.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
One of the only scenes in that damn film that goes for showing over telling.
I completely agree. I think it's one of the best pieces of film criticism I've ever read in my life
Herr Schwarz
Banned
As soon.soon as Ja Ja rolled out in the first film it was clear it was going to be Star Wars: Fifty Shades of Ham.
Every character in the prequels is hamming it to some level it's intentional and amusing. I can still get the story beats without the self serious overacting like we're getting in TFA.
The ham suits the ridiculousness of it all perfectly. What do you people want, game of thrones in space?!
Chained Prometheus
Member
Yup. Episode 3 has its moments, like the Anakin and Padme across the city scene and especially the Opera House scene, but it's definitely got some messy parts in it too.
And Ian carries that film with all his wonderful ham. lmao
Shit got serious in Empire AND ROTJ. But their serious scenes are regarded as the best moments in SW.
Why is it any different in TFA? The double standard is real
Unless you really don't care for empire or Jedi either, for the same reasons
Bobby Roberts
Banned
You guys are just like.. you are wiping your ASS with FCH by constantly relating him back to anything Pepboy is saying.
"here's this guy I like who I think is insightful. Here's why a lot of what he says is a lot like what this one guy here, dragging his index finger over his lips and making "p-b-b-b-b" sounds, is saying too!"
"here's this guy I like who I think is insightful. Here's why a lot of what he says is a lot like what this one guy here, dragging his index finger over his lips and making "p-b-b-b-b" sounds, is saying too!"
I'm sure we are about to get RLM linked here and get told on why they are also the 100% correct experts here.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
something something ENDLESS TRASH
Inferno313
Banned
Even A New Hope has lots of dark and serious moments. Luke finding the charred corpses of his adoptive parents? Yikes. Obi-Wan slashing off a dude's arm in the bar, close-up on the bloody disembodied limb? I always closed my eyes to that part as a youngin'
RLM's title prediction
EP9: Revenge of the Suits
It's true
TOO SERIOUS MY SW NEEDS MORE JAR JARS
EP9: Revenge of the Suits
It's true
TOO SERIOUS MY SW NEEDS MORE JAR JARS
"Anakin, The Force Awakens is a good Star Wars film and far better than any of the prequels!"
"From my point of view, The Force Awakens is worse than the prequels!"
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Hmm maybe I need to rewatch TFA, but this seems off to me. Rey's intro scene and the Jedi steps finale are dominated by the music.
QuantumZebra
Member
Shhh gotta keep the senseless narratives going
I enjoy reading FCH, even if I don't always agree with him, and his review of TFA is one of those cases. I think he taps into some legitimate criticisms of the film, but ironically I think he falls into the trap of giving a surface level reading to what he calls a "surface level" film.
The more I've watched and thought about TFA, the more I've realized that the whole "Star Wars film that realizes it's Star Wars thing" is not just an excuse to hit the nostalgia button, but an opportunity to do some interesting stuff, like give us a stormtrooper with an emotional arc, or an insecure Vader-wannabe, etc. The fact that the new characters are all "fans" of the old characters and stories puts them in a position where their own journeys act as a mirror to Star Wars fans coming back to the franchise.
Also, just as a side note, I still don't understand FCH's criticism of Rouge One. Like, his opinion of the film overall lines up close to mine, but his is backwards from every other criticism I've seen. Like, the movie is good until they get to Scarif? And the Vader scene doesn't work because it's "cool" and not scary? What?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah, but those two scenes are obviously shot & conceived with no dialog or really much of anything else to get in the way, so the music is going to take center stage there.
We're talking more about moments where other stuff is happening on the screen. There's a balance that is (hopefully) achieved on the mixing stage between the sound effects, dialog, atmosphere, and the music, and it's a hard one to get right. TFA didn't get that balance right all that often, and the music took a backseat to sound effects in quite a few instances.
PeskyToaster
Member
Much of what TFA was doing was cleverly mirroring the entire OT in one movie. The biggest one for me was Kylo Ren, and part of what makes him an interesting villain. Kylo Ren is clearly and purposefully set up as a Darth Vader for the trilogy. He talks about (and to) Darth Vader, he idolizes him. And Kylo Ren finally gets his chance to be Darth Vader near the end of the movie when he confronts Han. Father and Son. A son fallen to darkness and a father looking to redeem him. The mirror of RotJ's climax where a son was looking redeeming his fallen father. We all know Vader's choice; he chose the light and to save Luke but that's not Kylo's choice. He's not Darth Vader and he kills his father cementing his place in the dark side, shown rather visually in the scene with the shifting of red and blue lighting on each character's face during the confrontation (another pretty cool detail). I thought it was a really nice way to set up the character as a Darth Vader stand-in then subvert that and take him off in another direction. Who knows how the arc will end up by the end but right now I think it's pointing in an interesting direction. Sure, in a bullet point list TFA ticks a lot of the same boxes but I think it was supposed to. It was supposed to establish familiar circumstances then slowly take off the mask to reveal something different. I think it's a lot more creative of a film than many in this thread have given it credit for. I've definitely talked about this scene before but I think most things in this thread have been talked about before so whatever. I also think it's really cool and I want to talk about it more.
QuantumZebra
Member
Yup.
The most egregious being how Rey is a Mary Sue but Luke and Anakin somehow aren't.
Yea, the kid who won a pod race at like age 6 and took out a goddamned space station accidentally isn't a Mary Sue.
And the whiny teenager who never flew an extraplanetary ship expertly piloted an X-Wing through a heavily fortified trench for a long period of time and avoided death multiple times AND then took out the even bigger space station practically blindfolded isn't a Mary Sue.
Not enough eyeroll gifs in the world for that shit.
With regards to backseat modding, it does bear reminding that we did get warned about staying too long on putting TFA back on trial.
So, with that said, how about that Terrio co-writing. Hopefully we get Argo Terrio and not DC Terrio, or at least that DC Terrio is a byproduct of Goyer and Snyder being awful.
So, with that said, how about that Terrio co-writing. Hopefully we get Argo Terrio and not DC Terrio, or at least that DC Terrio is a byproduct of Goyer and Snyder being awful.
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