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[Liabe Brave]

"All Xbox one (not scorpio) games and accessories will play on all 3, no one gets left behind"

That's the origins of that quote. He's saying that xbox one games will carry over to scorpio not the reverse.

Note how you had to add "(not Scorpio)" as if the games will be different. That's an intrusive interpretation, driven by your belief that Scorpio isn't an Xbox One. But Phil Spencer does not agree with you. To him, it is an Xbox One, so he was not trying to make a fine distinction between current games and putative "Scorpio games". If you read the quotes I already put up, that's clear.

Or maybe you'd prefer this quote:

When you're buying a console game from us, you know that console game will run on your original Xbox. No one gets left behind. We said that on stage. Your Xbox One S and Scorpio. That's an important design point for us. They're all part of the same family. ...The Scorpio games are obviously designed to take advantage of six teraflops and 4K. Your Xbox One, you were playing those today. You know what those look like and feel like. But there won't be Scorpio exclusive console games. Absolutely not.

So yes, "perverse" is actually a mild term for your interpretation that he was avoiding talk of forwards compatibility and only talking backwards compatibility. "Just plain wrong" is more accurate.

 

[Wedzi]

Oh no don't tell me people are starting to think Scorpio will just magically run your existing Xbox One games at 4K and/or 60 FPS. Come on people!

 

[Electret]

Phil Spencer disagrees.

https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/828823828386033664?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

I missed the part where Phil provides a technical explanation as to how a game hard coded to output a maximum of 1080P at 30FPS will automatically exceed those targets on Scorpio without explicit modification of their code.

Nonsense

lol. See above, and then revisit your post.

 

[Proelite]

I am pretty sure Zen is not happening.

 

[rokkerkory]

I missed the part where Phil provides a technical explanation as to how a game hard coded to output a maximum of 1080P at 30FPS will automatically exceed those targets on Scorpio without explicit modification of their code

lol. See above, and then revisit your post.

Which games wont be getting a boost then?

 

[JonathanPower]

All Zen would bring is better frame rates (and other such improvements). It wouldn't be a transformative thing.

I trust you on that, as you work with this stuff. But, just from a technological point of view, it would mean a generational leap in terms of CPU tech with respect to the Xbox One.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Which games wont be getting a boost then?

the ones that have not been patched to do so beyond their limits. Otherwise you'll see a XB1S/Boost mode esque upgrade

Its the exact same thing as Pro people, not hard concepts

 

[Electret]

Which games wont be getting a boost then?

With respect to resolution: non-dynamic resolution games - i.e., games whose code specifies a set, unchanging output resolution (e.g., 900P, 1080P). Dynamic resolution games, in contrast, should see improvement.

With respect to framerate: games with locked framerates. In contrast, games that have variable framerates should be improved with less dropped frames, and some frame pacing issues should be improved.

Beyond that, what do you expect? It seems hard to believe Scorpio is going to snoop calls from the game to raise its output resolution or its framerate cap.

 

[Colbert]

omg, another cycle of the same arguments. can we please fast forward to June already.

Spoiler

Zen vs. not Zen

 

[Colbert]

With respect to resolution: non-dynamic resolution games - i.e., games whose code specifies a set, unchanging output resolution (e.g., 900P, 1080P). Dynamic resolution games, in contrast, should see improvement.

With respect to framerate: games with locked framerates. In contrast, games that have variable framerates should be improved with less dropped frames, and some frame pacing issues should be improved.

Beyond that, what do you expect? It seems hard to believe Scorpio is going to snoop calls from the game to raise its output resolution or its framerate cap.

Valen is right!

 

[Matt]

I trust you on that, as you work with this stuff. But, just from a technological point of view, it would mean a generational leap in terms of CPU tech with respect to the Xbox One.

But the games will be the same games no matter what. Scorpio games have to run on XBO and PS4 and older PCs too.

 

[Liabe Brave]

Which games wont be getting a boost then?

The ones that already hit non-dynamic targets, and don't get patched. The PS4 Pro Boost mode probably gives a very good picture of what will happen with unpatched games on Scorpio. So for example Battlefield 4 runs faster on Pro with boost, helping eliminate drops from the 60fps target. But it doesn't go from 900p to 1080p (or higher), even though the machine could certainly handle that.

Scorpio has a bigger power advantage than Pro over the standard model, but this will not cause the game to push past the defined targets set by developer, unless the game is patched.

 

[Electret]

Valen is right!

I know many still think what happened with Babylon 4 was petty theft, but I did it to save the freakin' galaxy.

Also, points to you - you're the first to reference my avatar. It only took over 500 posts!

 

[rokkerkory]

the ones that have not been patched to do so beyond their limits. Otherwise you'll see a XB1S/Boost mode esque upgrade

Its the exact same thing as Pro people, not hard concepts

With respect to resolution: non-dynamic resolution games - i.e., games whose code specifies a set, unchanging output resolution (e.g., 900P, 1080P). Dynamic resolution games, in contrast, should see improvement.

With respect to framerate: games with locked framerates. In contrast, games that have variable framerates should be improved with less dropped frames, and some frame pacing issues should be improved.

Beyond that, what do you expect? It seems hard to believe Scorpio is going to snoop calls from the game to raise its output resolution or its framerate cap.

The ones that already hit non-dynamic targets, and don't get patched. The PS4 Pro Boost mode probably gives a very good picture of what will happen with unpatched games on Scorpio. So for example Battlefield 4 runs faster on Pro with boost, helping eliminate drops from the 60fps target. But it doesn't go from 900p to 1080p (or higher), even though the machine could certainly handle that.

Scorpio has a bigger power advantage than Pro over the standard model, but this will not cause the game to push past the defined targets set by developer, unless the game is patched.

So games can be patched to leverage the extra power. Glad we are in agreement then. Look at how games run on the S with the small 5-7% gpu boost.

 

[Somnia]

I doubt that, based alone on Playstation's international appeal and Xbox's vanishing presence outside US/UK/Mexico/Australia/Brazil.

There updated that for you as it actually does good in those other 3 also.

 

[JonathanPower]

Get outta here with the trolling. No one at ms has said this if anything exact opposite. Your just trying to raise expectations so that when zen isn't part of the system you can say they didn't deliver. They never said zen was in the system but 6tf was.

Logic says zen wont be in system because it's not needed to achieve what the goals are. xb1 games at 4k.

MS themselves said in the presentation they conceived Scorpio as a high end gaming machine, which would create the expectation of something better than Jaguar. Now, you need to provide a source where they said the exact opposite, that they didn't really mean high end when they said high end, otherwise it's just speculation on your side and you are the one acting as a troll.

 

[Electret]

So games can be patched to leverage the extra power. Glad we are in agreement then. Look at how games run on the S with the small 5-7% gpu boost.

The context of the discussion was unpatched games running better. Do keep up.

There updated that for you as it actually does good in those other 3 also.

So I've heard, but I've when pressed folks for numbers have never received any. Do you have some? Or, at least I'd like to know what by metric its sales in those countries would be considered 'good'. For Brazil I remember someone seemed to suggest XB1 was well below 360 there, which was considered popular in that country. Lacking more data I'm unsure of its relevance in those markets and don't necessarily see it as unfair to say it's pretty irrelevant outside of US/UK. Of course, 'irrelevant' is a superlative. Maybe millions can be accounted to those territories, in which case I can see your point.

 

[Akronis]

MS themselves said in the presentation they conceived Scorpio as a high end gaming machine, which would create the expectation of something better than Jaguar. Now, you need to provide a source where they said the exact opposite, otherwise it's just speculation on your side and you are the one acting as a troll.

Do you believe every ounce of shitty marketing speak that pours out of Phil Spencer's mouth?

 

[Colbert]

I know many still think what happened with Babylon 4 was petty theft, but I did it to save the freakin' galaxy.

Also, points to you - you're the first to reference my avatar. It only took over 500 posts!

You just motivated me to buy all 5 seasons on Amazon Prime (I already have the DVDs but now I can watch it on my iPad when I am on business travel).

 

[Sydle]

MS themselves said in the presentation they conceived Scorpio as a high end gaming machine, which would create the expectation of something better than Jaguar. Now, you need to provide a source where they said the exact opposite, that they didn't really mean high end when they said high end, otherwise it's just speculation on your side and you are the one acting as a troll.

He said it's for 4K Xbox One games and hi-fidelity VR. That's it.

 

[JaseC]

When I say they know better I mean they don't use financial conferences as their primary source of information.

I guarantee you that investors attending a financial conference pay more attention to CEOs than online speculation.

And what if Scorpio will be launched next holiday season and it has Zen?

That's a vague possibility I've acknowledged myself in the past, however Phil Spencer very recently reaffirmed a Q4 2017 release.

That would be what, 1 or 2 months before 2018? How exactly that would be considered a bad thing by investors?

Companies that lie to potential investors give them no reason to invest; it casts into doubt everything they say, which creates uncertainty, which is itself something investors tend to avoid. I don't think you've carefully considered your argument that Su's comments are red herrings.

 

[JonathanPower]

He said it's for 4K Xbox One games and hi-fidelity VR. That's it.

Alright. So let's pretend they never said the stuff they said in the presentation. It just didn't happen. That's it.

 

[Liabe Brave]

So games can be patched to leverage the extra power. Glad we are in agreement then.

Of course games can be patched to take advantage of the hardware. Just as blindingly obvious is that most of them won't be. Pro has about 100 patched games now, and that's on a system with a larger library than Xbox One, and generally more copies sold per title. The incentives for devs to spend the effort to revisit their old titles are thus lower on Microsoft's platform.

Most games will have to rely on the Scorpio equivalent of Boost mode, which will definitely help, sometimes a lot. But they'll never be anything like as impressive as games patched to truly use the hardware. Those games should look and run great, given the extra power Scorpio has over PS4 Pro.

 

[LukasTaves]

I missed the part where Phil provides a technical explanation as to how a game hard coded to output a maximum of 1080P at 30FPS will automatically exceed those targets on Scorpio without explicit modification of their code.



lol. See above, and then revisit your post.

It doesn't need to exceed those targets to improve on Scorpio. All it takes is the game not meeting those targets. And there are many cases of that happening.

 

[Sydle]

Alright. So let's pretend they never said the stuff they said in the presentation. It just didn't happen. That's it.

You're being selective and putting words in his mouth instead of taking everything he said in the E3 presentation and since at face value.

 

[Electret]

You just motivated me to buy all 5 seasons on Amazon Prime (I already have the DVDs but now I can watch it on my iPad when I am on business travel).

Excellent decision. I need to get a physical or digital copy myself.

It doesn't need to exceed those targets to improve on Scorpio. All it takes is the game not meeting those targets. And there are many cases of that happening.

Right, which is why I addressed that. But the context of the discussion was improvements to games that are locked with respect to resolution and/or framerate without patches. In that sense it is difficult to imagine MS implementing a feature that can exceed a game's cap without a patch.

 

[Sydle]

Alright. So let's pretend they never said the stuff they said in the presentation. It just didn't happen. That's it.

You need to watch this, the whole thing: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IHjMF8d5yOA

 

[JonathanPower]

I guarantee you that investors attending a financial conference pay more attention to CEOs than online speculation.

As an investor myself, I guarantee you I use neither the CEO's words from a financial conference nor online speculation as a source of information. I rather study the company's financial statements.

 

[dr_rus]

I missed the part where Phil provides a technical explanation as to how a game hard coded to output a maximum of 1080P at 30FPS will automatically exceed those targets on Scorpio without explicit modification of their code.

What does that even mean? All console games are "hardcoded" to some resolution and framerate. Doesn't stop anyone from changing this in the APIs intercepts or emulation layers.

 

[rokkerkory]

MS themselves said in the presentation they conceived Scorpio as a high end gaming machine, which would create the expectation of something better than Jaguar. Now, you need to provide a source where they said the exact opposite, that they didn't really mean high end when they said high end, otherwise it's just speculation on your side and you are the one acting as a troll.

Source is in the presentation and all the interviews. They said 'beyond generations'. How about you start with what they actually said?

 

[Matt]

What does that even mean? All console games are "hardcoded" to some resolution and framerate. Doesn't stop anyone from changing this in the APIs intercepts or emulation layers.

No, that's not how it works. MS can't make a system level change that will override each games' settings.

 

[JaseC]

As an investor myself, I guarantee you I use neither the CEO's words from a financial conference nor online speculation as a source of information. I rather study the company's financial statements.

Even assuming that you're not a hobbyist investor who hopes to make a small return on his modest stock purchases, financial statements don't offer specific insight into future plans (and even if they did, lending more credence to what AMD writes versus what it says doesn't make any sense within the context of product roadmaps). Professional investors need firm reason to believe that AMD's stock price will improve in the future and Su lying through her teeth about semi-custom Ryzen being a 2018/19 venture because it's actually already happening runs completely antithetical to that. It's essentially self-sabotage as AMD being in a stronger position now would increase investor confidence -- it has nothing to gain by downplaying its situation.

 

[Hawk269]

The hell with going on a budget price. Give me Zen with a 7-8tf GPU bump, 16gb of RAM and a hybrid 2tb SSHD. $699.99 no problem. It wont sell like hot cakes, but it would be the no compromise, no holding back system they have been bragging about.

 

[onQ123]

No, that's not how it works. MS can't make a system level change that will override each games' settings.

Actually they can have stuff like 2X rendering output & 2X frame rate interpolation at the system level.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

The hell with going on a budget price. Give me Zen with a 7-8tf GPU bump, 16gb of RAM and a hybrid 2tb SSHD. $699.99 no problem. It wont sell like hot cakes, but it would be the no compromise, no holding back system they have been bragging about.

Lol, no problem for you but may be a problem for many. Will be interesting to see how this thing will be priced. I'm expecting now more than 449.99. They are gonna wanna get as many off of the shelf as possible.

Also, I don't care if it has Zen won't stop me from getting one if it doesn't have it. I just hope they have some good solid software to show with it, 1st & 3rd part. Also hoping for some Scropio patches on Halo 5 and Fallout 4, etc.

 

[Matt]

Actually they can have stuff like 2X rendering output & 2X frame rate interpolation at the system level.

That's not nearly the same thing.

 

[Hawk269]

Lol, no problem for you but may be a problem for many. Will be interesting to see how this thing will be priced. I'm expecting now more than 449.99. They are gonna wanna get as many off of the shelf as possible.

Also, I don't care if it has Zen won't stop me from getting one if it doesn't have it. I just hope they have some good solid software to show with it, 1st & 3rd part. Also hoping for some Scropio patches on Halo 5 and Fallout 4, etc.

I am getting it regardless if it has Zen or not, 12gb or 16gb, still getting it regardless. It just has been a while since a company when balls out on hardware and delivered something cutting edge. I get the economics and what the casual consumer would buy, but I don't think MS is targeting the casual, it seems like they are targeting the gamers/hardcore folks...when it comes time for the everyday casuals they could reduce it in a year or so.

But regardless, it still will be a very good system, but as a person that has been gaming for over 40 years or so, having something "high end/cutting edge" would be pretty cool and would love to see it. If you watch the reveal Scorpio trailer and Phil's comments, they sound like they want to make a no sacrifice type of system, but that also comes at a cost of goods and higher retail price.

 

[Bsigg12]

We really need some new leaks.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I am getting it regardless if it has Zen or not, 12gb or 16gb, still getting it regardless. It just has been a while since a company when balls out on hardware and delivered something cutting edge. I get the economics and what the casual consumer would buy, but I don't think MS is targeting the casual, it seems like they are targeting the gamers/hardcore folks...when it comes time for the everyday casuals they could reduce it in a year or so.

But regardless, it still will be a very good system, but as a person that has been gaming for over 40 years or so, having something "high end/cutting edge" would be pretty cool and would love to see it. If you watch the reveal Scorpio trailer and Phil's comments, they sound like they want to make a no sacrifice type of system, but that also comes at a cost of goods and higher retail price.

And, just a hypothetical about delivering on such a thing, what do you think such a thing would accomplish for them? Bragging rights about power?

 

[Hawk269]

And, just a hypothetical about delivering on such a thing, what do you think such a thing would accomplish for them? Bragging rights about power?

Well, I am just a gamer and would like something powerful and cutting edge. Something that aligns with the no compromise comments they have made.

As far as what it would accomplish for them, I suggest you go ask MS that. I am not MS, I don't work for MS and I really could care less what it does for them. I am a gamer that owns all the consoles and a gaming rig..and just want a cutting edge console.

 

[onQ123]

That's not nearly the same thing.

It's pretty close.

 

[TLZ]

That's not nearly the same thing.

It achieves what we want, so I don't get your point.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Well, I am just a gamer and would like something powerful and cutting edge. Something that aligns with the no compromise comments they have made.

As far as what it would accomplish for them, I suggest you go ask MS that. I am not MS, I don't work for MS and I really could care less what it does for them. I am a gamer that owns all the consoles and a gaming rig..and just want a cutting edge console.

But MS is always going to be at the mercy of console limitations. This isnt 1995 where loss leading is a smart thing if a division wants to stay open in the gaming industry in the first place

 

[Matt]

It achieves what we want, so I don't get your point.

Not really, no.

I also wouldn't expect it...

 

[Alucard725]

I know many still think what happened with Babylon 4 was petty theft, but I did it to save the freakin' galaxy.

Also, points to you - you're the first to reference my avatar. It only took over 500 posts!

With everything that's going on in the world I've been going back and watching it again. Specifically the Earth Alliance Civil War.

Damn I loved that show.

 

[Hoo-doo]

The hell with going on a budget price. Give me Zen with a 7-8tf GPU bump, 16gb of RAM and a hybrid 2tb SSHD. $699.99 no problem. It wont sell like hot cakes, but it would be the no compromise, no holding back system they have been bragging about.

All this for Xbox One games? This assumption that a more powerful box equates to all XB1 games suddenly looking like high-end PC titles has to stop.
You still have to have the developers out there cranking out patches to support that kind of hardware, and when the userbase is going to be minuscule at a 700$ pricepoint, who will even bother?

Try to think a step ahead. This is not just about hardware power. Market penetration is incredibly important if they want this thing to gain any kind of traction.

 

[michaelius]

I am getting it regardless if it has Zen or not, 12gb or 16gb, still getting it regardless. It just has been a while since a company when balls out on hardware and delivered something cutting edge. I get the economics and what the casual consumer would buy, but I don't think MS is targeting the casual, it seems like they are targeting the gamers/hardcore folks...when it comes time for the everyday casuals they could reduce it in a year or so.

Cutting edge ? Balls out ?

X360 was cutting edge since it outperformed everything on the market when it got released and it took some time for pcs to match that.
Meanwhile we had gpu power of 6TF since June 2015 and you can buy it today in 400$ gpu, by the time Scorpio releases it might be even more mainstream.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

I'm normally pretty positive about Scorpio. But I'll just say this, if my 1080 can't even run the PC edition of FH3 at a solid 60fps because it was hard coded for 30 on consoles... and then suddenly the way less powerful Scorpio comes along and is hitting a solid 60... I will be pissed.

 

[Terbinator]

I'm normally pretty positive about Scorpio. But I'll just say this, if my 1080 can't even run the PC edition of FH3 at a solid 60fps because it was hard coded for 30 on consoles... and then suddenly the way less powerful Scorpio comes along and is hitting a solid 60... I will be pissed.

It's locked at 30 though

 

[Putty]

The last four pages have been super entertaining...for all the wrong reasons...