NXGamer
Member
That would be the only reason they would add it anyway. Just like graphics, better Ai, physics, even LoD does not market as well as 60Hz. With its internal games push for this from Halo 5, gears 4 they are clear on their aim.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Scorpio presentation pictured within AMD's Vega/Ryzen booth
- Thread starter leeh
- Start date
Yes. This.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Yeah, on XB1 it is. Some here think that the Scorpio version will enhance the framerate of some games though. I think it will, just that if suddenly games on Scorpio somehow magically perform better than their much stronger PC counterparts at higher settings then I would be pretty upset that MS didn't give the PC version at least the same amount of treatment as the Scorpio version and work whatever magic they did that made the Scorpio version run at a solid 60. Specifically talking about games that have already launched PC versions. That's all I was saying.
People invest more than that for Xbox One games.
Caayn
Member
I get where you're coming from, I'd wouldn't mind a higher price if that means that the machine will be beefier. But I highly doubt that'll we see that happening. The days of consoles being cutting-edge are over, GPUs prices rising higher than the moon doesn't help with that.
Price will come down, specs won't go up.
JonathanPower
Member
I love the way you confidently talk about this stuff without providing any qualification, trying to explain to me how my job works. Dude, I am not going to talk about my income, but I make quite a good living trading stocks. Financial statements are the foundation to sustain any future business plan. It doesn't matter what wonderful business plan a CEO will illustrate in a meeting, if the company is going to be broken in a month. Consider them a reality check. Anyway, AMD is going to make money by supplying parts to MS for Scorpio, whether it be Zen or Jaguar, it doesn't really matter from a financial standpoint. Having a custom Ryzen SOC ready for Scorpio a few months earlier than expected would have a negligible impact on investor confidence, as what really matters to investors is when the product will be ready for the PC and server markets, which is what AMD needs to stay competitive. And Scorpio would be considered a 2018 product anyway.
JonathanPower
Member
Which does not contradict what I have been saying. So I think there was a misunderstanding. When I said a true generation leap I was only talking from a technological standpoint, i.e. Zen vs Jaguar.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
might aswell make a entirely new console at this point?
ArtificialIntelligence
Member
After the Scorpio release , how long do will take to reveal NexGen Xbox? 2020ish?
I think you'd be surprised how many people would fork out the extra cash for something that is truly powerful.
Considering the Xbox One was £500 a launch and it's hardware kinda sucked, I'd have no problem paying £500 for a premium console which is powerful.
If MS can sell elite controllers for £120 a go and still sell out, i'm sure selling a beefy console at £500 will have no problems selling at all.
Even at £550-600 I think it would still sell a lot. I don't agree that they need to be hitting a £399 price point, enthusiasts will pay more, others will just stick with the Xbox One S.
Considering the Xbox One was £500 a launch and it's hardware kinda sucked, I'd have no problem paying £500 for a premium console which is powerful.
If MS can sell elite controllers for £120 a go and still sell out, i'm sure selling a beefy console at £500 will have no problems selling at all.
Even at £550-600 I think it would still sell a lot. I don't agree that they need to be hitting a £399 price point, enthusiasts will pay more, others will just stick with the Xbox One S.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
I would prefer that a 'luxury' model went all the way. If a console manufacturer could effectively provide a high end gaming PC for half the cost, I think that could gain some traction.
But these efforts are just regular old medium spec consoles with a short time frame between releases. Solid but nothing remarkable.
But these efforts are just regular old medium spec consoles with a short time frame between releases. Solid but nothing remarkable.
Luxury model= $449-499 (better hd or ssd hybrid)
Base model= $399
Anything besides the above would prob discourage consumers as PS4Pro will be having a $350 price point holiday 2017 and possibly a PSVR +Pro combo for a decent discount.
My 0.02
I don't see Scorpio priced that easily at 399$ with 320 GB of bandwith and a Vega GPU inside.
No. It's a Xbone bump with no exclusive games. Same as a Pro [but probably more expansive].
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Yeah of course. If they want to easily sell a significant amount of the Scorpio then it has to be $399. And I too think there will be some $499 versions with bigger HDD's and a game packed in.
But in the future I think a 'high end PC in a console like box' could be a potential avenue of success. A console manufacture buying parts in their millions could significantly undercut any home built gaming PC. Making the 'Steam Box' a possible reality.
Maybe that's a way for MS to truly differentiate from Sony, an actual high performance machine. It would cost more but they could look at doing subscriptions like phones. Say $39.99 a month for a high end machine that gets renewed every two years, and Xbox Live and all the rest thrown in with the deal.
I think there would be a market for that if executed correctly.
Memorabilia
Member
MS better have a $399 base model Scorpio or the thing will be niche at best, which given MS's market position defeats the point of releasing it in the first place. Internal pressure at MS for the Xbox division to have success means they'll price this thing to compete and move volume. I don't see the logic in releasing a super expensive bragging rights console. They need the Scorpio to take off like wild fire and eventually - sooner, not later - become the *primary*, highest selling Xbox while the Xbone S handles the "entry level" price point. Even with price parity to the Pro, the PS4 brand has such global momentum the Scorpio may struggle to achieve as large of a market share grab as they hope. But if they price the Scorpio too high it has exactly zero chance of moving the needle at all. So, if they launch as high as some on GAF are saying it means the people running the Xbox division are stupid and clueless about the market within which they are competing. History proves if you launch above $400 you're toast. Period. While I don't have the highest opinion of MS leadership higher up the food chain, I have some faith Phil's group isn't as clueless as many here seem to believe.
Yangshouwen
Banned
The Xbox One was never £500 at launch, but i get your point.
stargateheaven
Member
wait.. this isn't a new system? i figured it could play xbox one games but it had some new exclusives..
gaming_noob
Member
I think this may be off topic from CPU talk but "chris1515" from Beyond3D had this to say, according to his friend working on Decima engine:
"...He said the most interesting things is not the GPU power or the bandwidth but the 4GB of memory. But he likes the bandwidth memory too..."
"...He said the most interesting things is not the GPU power or the bandwidth but the 4GB of memory. But he likes the bandwidth memory too..."
of course not. its the same as ps4 pro.
i've heard it will have VR exclusives(aka games that are on PS4/Pro/scorpio but not xB1) but that's it.
generally speaking, there's no one who would make exclusives for scorpio only to begin with considering how xb1 is already far behind the competition
That extra 4gb of ram will allow a lot more for graphics. Now games on Scorpio can support ultra high res textures, better LOD streaming, and more. CPU isn't anything to be worried about Scorpio. Having 12gb of ram, 320gb/s bandwidth, 6+ TF gpu on newer architecture is going to do wonders.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Xbox One was £429 at launch, not £500.
I guess it depends what MS expect from Scorpio, if they want to close the gap against Sony, they need to nail a lower price point to compete with the low priced PS4 and Pro.
If they want to just carry on their own path and aren't worried about catching Sony, then they might release at a higher price, although at the end of the day Microsoft are a business and are out to make money, so I don't see them making a super expensive console that might not sell a lot.
Edit: after reading the original post i see that it's someone who is working on a PS4 game that he talked to
Ricky Ricardo
Member
Exactly. I feel people are missing the forest for the trees. Consoles are always going to have compromises, but the RAM, bandwidth, and meaty TFs will provide a larger leap then I think many here are giving it credit for.
Trainsmove
Banned
Just saying!
GTX TItan X Pascal-------GTX 1080-------------------------Scorpio
12GB GDDR5X-------------8GB GDDR5X--------------------12GB (4K level textures)
384-bit-------------------------256-bit-------------------------------384-bit
480GB/s-----------------------320GB/s-----------------------------320GB/s
11 TFLOPS-------------------9 TFLOPS---------------------------6 TFLOPS
$1200 US----------------------$699 US------------------------------$399 - $500 with 4TB
GTX TItan X Pascal-------GTX 1080-------------------------Scorpio
12GB GDDR5X-------------8GB GDDR5X--------------------12GB (4K level textures)
384-bit-------------------------256-bit-------------------------------384-bit
480GB/s-----------------------320GB/s-----------------------------320GB/s
11 TFLOPS-------------------9 TFLOPS---------------------------6 TFLOPS
$1200 US----------------------$699 US------------------------------$399 - $500 with 4TB
ArtificialIntelligence
Member
With 4TB HDD? Isn't it a little bit unrealistic ?
dr_rus
Member
Why not? MS can easily force an output resolution via an API interrupt. Only thing needed for this is the necessary amount of processing power. If you're talking about doing this by default for all XBO games then sure, they'll have to enable it one by one after QA testing, but it's still possible.
Oh, sorry for the misunderstanding: I've no interest in discussing your income or proving your credentials, and I wasn't downplaying the importance of financial statements in general. My point was that the reasons for investing are irrelevant to the matter of the likelihood of Ryzen being in Scorpio.
Of course.
I didn't mean to imply that the potential effect would be dramatic. My point was simply that AMD gains nothing by playing fast and loose with the truth vis-a-vis product roadmaps and theoretically may harm itself by doing so.
It's launching this holiday season and AMD's financial year ends December 26th. I'm sure we can agree that Microsoft has not pencilled in Scoprio for release on or between the day after Christmas and New Year's Eve.
There's quite a divide between AMD acknowledging that it is already accepting semi-custom Ryzen contracts and providing specific details about the ones it has secured. The former wouldn't infringe upon any NDA whatsoever.
Jaguar Victory
Member
So what do you guys think, is Scorpio going to have the rumored RX580? A year later than Pro came out with the 480.
http://wccftech.com/amd-vega-gpu-pictured-q2-2017-launch-confirmed/
Cut down Vega 11?
I believe there was a talk of showing off a new AMD GPU Feb 28th potentially.
http://wccftech.com/amd-vega-gpu-pictured-q2-2017-launch-confirmed/
Cut down Vega 11?
I believe there was a talk of showing off a new AMD GPU Feb 28th potentially.
Trainsmove
Banned
it's called the end of generations, where new hardware that was not X86 meant that a new code base for that new hardware had to be started from scratch this will no longer apply to new consoles, they are all X86 and not Risc assembly Language or ?.
MS has set this up from the start in making XB1 developers use explicitly dx11 Code base. That can be easily moved to a dx12 code base. This makes backwards and forward compatibility easier without any specially coded routines not common to the dx12 code base.
Take a 1.8TF GPU from a PC and one from a and console. The console will run circles around that PC with the same 1.8TF GPU. MS is saying to the developers program for one game on a High-low end PC and that code will scale down to the lowest X86 windows or XB hardware. UWP is a gateway to that dream . Let the software do the work or scale to that low-end GPU. Take the optimizations from console DX12 lowerst point 1.3TF GPU and program those optimizations in your engine from the top down or bottom up.
If your hardware can't use 4K textures then scale down too 1K textures.
If your hardware can't use high-end polygon models scale down.
If your hardware can't render 4k pixels scale down to 1080p or 900p.
this will work to produce anything in the game using GPU power or CPU power.
AI is not that scalable but everything on the screen is scalable.
Lower this ________ = more of this_________.
textures = memory/BW
polygon models = memory / BW
So that's why you don't need exclusives.
rokkerkory
Member
I'll let MS / Sony / Nintendo define what it means to them.
JonathanPower
Member
It's not their call; it's AMD who defined Zen as their next gen CPU tech so if Scorpio ends up with it, it'll definitely sets it a generation apart from current gen consoles, from a hardware standpoint.
More expansive? I may need a bigger room then.
Polaris & Vega are different generation AMD GPUs from Pitcairn but that didn't make PS4 Pro a next generation console because it use next gen features in it's APU.
JonathanPower
Member
PS4 pro still uses the same CPU as the PS4, so it's not a real generation jump, while Scoprio featuring both a next gen GPU and next gen CPU would be a much bigger departure from the previous generation, actually setting it a generation apart from its predecessor.
Similar threads
- Poll