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"Xbox Series consoles have sold less in the same timeframe as XB1" Really?

DaGwaphics

Member
I guess it depends how literal that is, because I assume the stock sold, was previously built. Meaning building refers to new stock to meet demand.

I suspect the XsS is made at +$50 dollar profit, and XsX is made at +$150 loss, so producing half and half at day one surely lets the early XsX mfr costs get offset against XsS stock that will remain in the market for much longer, all the while XsX costs are reduced on successive stocks produced.

At launch, XSX had like 5 -20 units at most retail locations, while XSS had like 1 - 5 (there were literally some Gamestops with just a single XSS). They must have really planned on hanging onto those S systems for a while to release so few. Especially since they are still selling through in the states.
 
Console warring. Which, as a grown man I don’t understand. Back in the day when you’re a kid with limited funds you bash the other side because your folks said it was either a SNES or Genesis. To see a grown ass man console warring.... fucking pathetic.
It's literally just like having a favorite sports team, a habit of something like 75% of the adult male population. Get over it.
 

xShaun

Member
Mobile gaming has increased tremendously since the Xbone. This is why Gamepass is so damn smart and forward thinking because sooner or later Mobile will eclipse Consoles more and more.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Mobile gaming has increased tremendously since the Xbone. This is why Gamepass is so damn smart and forward thinking because sooner or later Mobile will eclipse Consoles more and more.

If GamePass really clicks, the whole Xbox+PC+Mobile initiative could rewrite the rulebooks on what is possible. Seems like smooth sailing so far.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
At launch, XSX had like 5 -20 units at most retail locations, while XSS had like 1 - 5 (there were literally some Gamestops with just a single XSS). They must have really planned on hanging onto those S systems for a while to release so few. Especially since they are still selling through in the states.
There's way too may things in play for that to be meaningful IMHO, as we don't know how much of the stock was allocated to stores versus online, and even if we did, we'd need to know how the stock is paid for. If none of it has sale-or-return status direct with Microsoft, then we can't really draw any conclusions about how the percentages purchased happened at wholesale versus stock presented on shelves.

Bulk buyers usually buy their stock AFAIK, so a XsX dominated split would match what they were confident they could sell IMO, not what was available of each stock to bulk buy.
 
It's literally just like having a favorite sports team, a habit of something like 75% of the adult male population. Get over it.

I disagree, as somebody who absolutely loves both sports and video games, I don't think that parallel makes much sense. In sports there is a championship, there is direct competition, for one team to win the other must lose. In video games there are no championships (at least as far as the consoles go, there's obviously things like esports that are unrelated to console warring), the competition isn't a win/lose style, rooting for the other console to fail is unnecessary and childish, plenty of people have and thoroughly enjoy multiple systems from competitors, if you're both a Steelers fan and a Ravens fan that makes zero sense. (for those unaware of American football teams, they are big rivals). Also there is a form of identity, I'll buy apparel for my favorite sports team, I feel like it's kind of weird to buy apparel for Xbox or Playstation or Nintendo personally

It makes sense to have a preference, I know that I have an Xbox preference (360/One/XSX were my main consoles in each of those gens), but all that should matter is that you're getting enjoyment from it, not that "Playstation is doing better than Xbox", why do people feel super happy by the fact that the console they bought has sold more than the other one? If you get super defensive and feel a "need" to let people know that they bought the "wrong" console, or that their opinion is "wrong", that doesn't make sense to me. I don't think having a favorite sports team is similar to having a favorite console, or at least is shouldn't be
 

skneogaf

Member
Absolutely everything video game related that is hdmi 2.1 is sold out.

The xbox series x has had a rough start with a few of the comparisons but is now winning them so the lack of stock due to covid-19 may actually help xbox in the future.
 

Chronos24

Member
I believe the xbox one had much greater supply out when it launched. I remember easily grabbing one from the store I work at. Absolutely not the case this time around I have YET to see a single console either PS5 or XSX in store anywhere local.
 
I would suspect this is largely due to COVID. They’re sold out in most areas. Even without COVID, your dealing with a disappointing last gen and no killer 1st party launch title.
 

Elios83

Member
Microsoft handled production really poorly.
Through NPD leaks we know they're behind Xbox One even in the US, their main market, while PS5 is about to surpass PS4 in the same timeframe (pronbably it's going to happen with the March results).
Even in the context of low total Series X/S supply and S being the smaller part of total shipments, that particular model has not been particularly hard to find (it really isn't in Europe when there are restocks) which is a strong sign of low demand for that model.
Microsoft has to take serious steps during the upcoming holiday season if they don't want to be left in the dust in hardware sales.
I guess that Series S needs a price cut and to include a 3 months subscrption to Gamepass. That would be a good way to give that SKU a sense.
 

phil_t98

#SonyToo
The thing is being an XBOX fan means you don't even have to own an XBOX anymore....All XBOX ware are available on PC day 1 or on gamepass day 1. The predicament is XBOX has not been sharing numbers for years, but they did do share numbers when they were selling consoles and third party software and DLC out the wazoo in the 360 days......Yet here, they are in a situation where XBOX hardware sales are not being officially revealed and that's clearly for a reason, it's because it's just not selling as much as the competition, so they don't want to be seen in a bad light. At MS it's the typical, everything is fine, everything is great with our sales, we're doing great MAU's at MS's game division in a chemical-ali.gif style.

In the here and now. MS's newly acquired/pronounced prized bull champion "gamepass" is pegged as the new paradigm for gaming across all devices and occasionally MS will publish gamepass users at 5-10-18 million, but never publish how much is being made by it, how many of these users are active, how many of these users are actively paying $15 per month, how much dlc are gamepass users buying, how many games do they play per month on the service. So it's a situation where MS is mum on both hardware sales and services profitability and user engagement per game. So it's clearly a case of underperformance glistened with honey PR......I'm sure in the last couple of years MS marketing will tell you, who needs numbers, you don't need to know that. Yet the absence of numbers or it's relevance is only when those numbers are floundering....It's similar to review scores, many bad Meta scores last gen and those numbers didn't matter either (you are having fun right).....So it's not hard at all to decipher MS's real performance vs their marketing.....It's like the guy saying he is dating Halle Berry, but you've never seen him with her in the neighborhood, clearly you would want to flaunt that....Yet in the absence of data, all you have is PR, most likely to make it sound better than it actually is, because real numbers would be tangible, could not be argued and have the opposite effect..
Same with PlayStation now the odd game is appearing on pc and prob more in future
 

AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Global IC supply isn't going to normalize before mid-2022, if then. Tracking against previous generations or against the competition isn't useful information right now.
I don't think supply is low, demand is higher than expected.
 
There's way too may things in play for that to be meaningful IMHO, as we don't know how much of the stock was allocated to stores versus online, and even if we did, we'd need to know how the stock is paid for. If none of it has sale-or-return status direct with Microsoft, then we can't really draw any conclusions about how the percentages purchased happened at wholesale versus stock presented on shelves.

Bulk buyers usually buy their stock AFAIK, so a XsX dominated split would match what they were confident they could sell IMO, not what was available of each stock to bulk buy.

In fact, MS has started to produced the XsX before the XsS, and they have prioritized the XsX for the launch. That's normal, XsX is aiming more hardcore players, so the one who used to buy consoles during the first part of console life cycle.
But since the launch, MS is producing more XsS than XsX, that's why now the XsS is selling more in many countries than XsX, but without being sold out (but it sells not badly).
 
If it's true that they got less wafers from AMD than Sony (which could could certainly be true give the production numbers of PS4), that combined with a bigger APU would have probably resulted in a lot less consoles available without the S. At least that tiny APU in the S would help to balance things out.

In a first time, MS has prioritized the XsX production for the launch, that's not surprising, but that's not the case since.

The fact that Sony has more wafers allocated than MS is a reality. It seems that TSMC has produced near three time less APU for X than PS5 ones.
With the Ratio I shared before, with around 27K wafer and the fact that you can produce around 150 XsX APU per wafer, with some numbers shared by MS (0.09 / cm2 defect rate, around 75% yield in this case), we will estimate around 110 dies available. So around 3 millions APU.
For XsS, with 20K wafer, you can produce around 290 XsS APU per wafer, with the better yield, you'll probably reach 240 dies available, so around 3.1 millions APU.
For the PS5 for example, if you have 80K wafer, per wafer that's more around 180 per wafer and 140 available. So 11.2 millions APU (Vs 6.1 millions for XS).

Around 20m wafer each in Q4? Makes sense.

As far as i know, it's more 70/30, 27m vs 13m, which give similar APU produced. But due to more complexe XsX build, seems MS produce more XsS now, that's why you see more XsS sold than XsX in many country, without being sold out.
 
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Kimahri

Banned
It's literally just like having a favorite sports team, a habit of something like 75% of the adult male population. Get over it.
Sports fans generally act like angry monkeys, so I'm not sure I see a good point there mister.

Console warring is pathetic. Get... Uh, over it.
 

Vestal

Gold Member
They are literally sold out everywhere. At least in the US there is no way to get one right now outside of eBay.
 

Stuart360

Member
Microsoft havent released sales numbers since 2014, and Phil literally came out before this gen launched and said they wont release sales numbers of the Series consoles, even if they were 'winning'.
Its time to let it go.
 
chappelle show lol GIF

This is going to be me once it finally clicks for some people that the console games industry, as much as it's still very much recognizable, has drastically changed in ways people still refuse to appreciate. Old assumptions about expected success or how things will go should be thrown out the window. Xbox Game Pass wasn't anywhere remotely the threat before that it now is. The Xbox first party games lineup is shaping up to be one of the most insane lineups ever, and Game Pass's impact and increasing value with even major third parties now apparently will only amplify their strength.

Xbox Series X as a pretty powerful piece of console hardware is also perfectly positioned from a pure horsepower and features standpoint to take full advantage of what Xbox has in the pipeline. No, Series S will not hurt that potential. It will only help make it more affordable for others to get in. And then there's PC. Things are very different now. Microsoft has acknowledged they've lost using the old business strategy and model. They have decided to change it and come up with their own. They now have their own metrics for success that are different from what Sony considers success. Slowly but surely I see Sony shifting towards what Microsoft is already doing.

But what some won't realize is that though Sony has the big first party IP to make day one in whatever their game pass competitor ends up being possible, what makes that and 3rd party day ones a thing and properly sustainable over the long term is that war chest Microsoft possesses. When Sony goes to make deals every 3rd party will be considering what kind of deal they can net from Microsoft and whether going with Sony makes sense. And if Sony manages to do exactly the same thing as Microsoft and making it fully sustainable for them? Even better for Microsoft because that's what Microsoft wants. Not if, but when Sony copies Game Pass 100%, that will further validate xbox's moves to Microsoft, its CEO and Board of Directors, proving that they are on the right track, and investment must continue at the same pace.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Well said @ SenjutsuSage SenjutsuSage , MS and Sony have been playing different games for a minute. I expect Sony to copy some things, but not transition into a mirror image of MS, which is totally fine. I'm all in on subscriptions as long as they provide a great value. The more the better. Cheap gamers never had it so good.
 
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chappelle show lol GIF

This is going to be me once it finally clicks for some people that the console games industry, as much as it's still very much recognizable, has drastically changed in ways people still refuse to appreciate. Old assumptions about expected success or how things will go should be thrown out the window. Xbox Game Pass wasn't anywhere remotely the threat before that it now is. The Xbox first party games lineup is shaping up to be one of the most insane lineups ever, and Game Pass's impact and increasing value with even major third parties now apparently will only amplify their strength.

Xbox Series X as a pretty powerful piece of console hardware is also perfectly positioned from a pure horsepower and features standpoint to take full advantage of what Xbox has in the pipeline. No, Series S will not hurt that potential. It will only help make it more affordable for others to get in. And then there's PC. Things are very different now. Microsoft has acknowledged they've lost using the old business strategy and model. They have decided to change it and come up with their own. They now have their own metrics for success that are different from what Sony considers success. Slowly but surely I see Sony shifting towards what Microsoft is already doing.

But what some won't realize is that though Sony has the big first party IP to make day one in whatever their game pass competitor ends up being possible, what makes that and 3rd party day ones a thing and properly sustainable over the long term is that war chest Microsoft possesses. When Sony goes to make deals every 3rd party will be considering what kind of deal they can net from Microsoft and whether going with Sony makes sense. And if Sony manages to do exactly the same thing as Microsoft and making it fully sustainable for them? Even better for Microsoft because that's what Microsoft wants. Not if, but when Sony copies Game Pass 100%, that will further validate xbox's moves to Microsoft, its CEO and Board of Directors, proving that they are on the right track, and investment must continue at the same pace.
Why would you even think Sony would do a GP service? It doesn't make sense for the kinds of games they make and so far MS isn't doing a very good job supporting it with new first party games either, 3 AAA games in 4 years is not a great record. Some people here keep wanting the leader to follow the loser and that's just now how it works. If you make story driven single player games the largest part of your portfolio a sub service doesn't work because people just sub for a month and then cancel and end up playing a $60-$70 game for $10 it makes no sense from their point of view.
 
Why would you even think Sony would do a GP service? It doesn't make sense for the kinds of games they make and so far MS isn't doing a very good job supporting it with new first party games either, 3 AAA games in 4 years is not a great record. Some people here keep wanting the leader to follow the loser and that's just now how it works. If you make story driven single player games the largest part of your portfolio a sub service doesn't work because people just sub for a month and then cancel and end up playing a $60-$70 game for $10 it makes no sense from their point of view.

Microsoft isn't doing a very good job supporting it? Nah, Bethesda changed all that. Microsoft being all in and really investing big in xbox and gaming now has changed all that. Bethesda was already a strong operation that shipped quality releases. Microsoft just absorbed all of that meanwhile they're investing in their new studios they bought and existing ones more than ever. Big budget releases are coming from all over the place. And in the meantime Microsoft is doing air drops for support from big third party releases with day one game pass deals.

It makes absolute sense for Sony to do the same. Why do people think people will sub for a month and then bounce? That's not the reality at all lol. This isn't what gamers are doing out there. They're subbing to get access and then sticking around if they are given more reasons to stay. A major part of gaming is the outlook of what's coming also. Sony are masters of this. Sony knows how to keep people's attention long term regarding what's coming. Microsoft's lionshare of their output will be a bunch of big single player epics. Starfield, Elder Scrolls, Avowed, Fable, Doom, Wolfenstein and so much more. Not saying there can't be a multi element, but Microsoft is going to be justifying game pass with huge epic singleplayer RPGs largely, and other big releases that are singleplayer. Hellblade, Outer Worlds sequel, Perfect Dark, Fable.

Sony can very much excel better than they ever have in the history of playstation with a game pass copycat. There's no shame in doing it because they have the content to make it work. Their first party operation is state of the art and is producing their best stuff ever right now.
 
Hell, it takes me MORE than a month many times to beat even shorter singleplayer games from Sony. I sure as hell didn't beat God of War or Last of Us 2 in under 1 month. I didn't even beat them in under 3 or 4 months. Largely work related reasons, but you get the idea. First time I played Mass Effect on Xbox 360, I was loving every moment. Then I suddenly stopped playing (not because I wasn't loving it) and didn't go back to finish for almost a whole year a change later.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Why would you even think Sony would do a GP service? It doesn't make sense for the kinds of games they make and so far MS isn't doing a very good job supporting it with new first party games either, 3 AAA games in 4 years is not a great record. Some people here keep wanting the leader to follow the loser and that's just now how it works. If you make story driven single player games the largest part of your portfolio a sub service doesn't work because people just sub for a month and then cancel and end up playing a $60-$70 game for $10 it makes no sense from their point of view.

If Sony was that concerned that they couldn't hold user engagement they could just do a yearly pass.
 

Kimahri

Banned
Acting like an angry monkey is the entire point. That's what we are and it's fun to behave that way in a low stakes context.
Say that to anyone lucky enough to cross paths with hooligans.

Some of us aim a tiny bit higher than that, but if all you wanna be is an angry monkey, go right ahead.
 
Say that to anyone lucky enough to cross paths with hooligans.

Some of us aim a tiny bit higher than that, but if all you wanna be is an angry monkey, go right ahead.

Nobody who posts on a dedicated video game forum is aiming higher than angry monkey, sorry dude
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
I easily pre-ordered and canceled(fook mandatory kinect) xbo and in February 2014 easily walked into gamestop and bought a xbo(after they dropped mandatory kinect)

I barely got a XSX pre-order in and been trying to help my friend get one since Feb 21 and it's always sold out.

Not sure if my experience is indicative of anything but I figured id share it.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Found it.



TSMC/AMD allocated for Q4 80k Wafer for PS5 and 40k Wafer for Series X|S.

Making a correction on my previous post... you have more PS5 chips than Series X chips per Wafer but you have even more Series S chips per Wafer.... we don’t have any ideia how many Wafers MS uses for X or S.

Even so Sony had the double of Wafer to make chips than MS for Q4.


Maybe PlayStation opened their warchest after their $25.5B revenue to have twice the wafers. Clearly MS/Xbox don't have the guts to go head-2-head with the market leader.

They already signed a deal for 5nm:

 
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So if the current "reason" now why there isn't stock to meet the "demand" of the series consoles is the complication of building 2 completely different SKUs, can we all admit that, Sony/Cerny decision to simplify their SKU's and chipsets for more efficient manufacturing was the smarter strategy? That the pandemic just exposed the inefficiency of MS strategy and shall continue to affect them till they drop Series S like they dropped the Kinect? :)
 
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