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[Kagey K]

Of course. But it’s one of them. That’s my question. How big? The loophole is something they know about but don’t advertise. It’s been going on for a long time. That has to call for some skepticism, no?

Ok let’s just say this loophole is as big as you imagine it is, 18 million subscribers right now, let’s say 8 million (a very high and unlikely ratio) know about this loophole and bought 3 years of gold and payed the dollar to upgrade.

MIcrosoft made 8 million dollars at the time of sale and leaves 10 million paying 15.00/month for a rough figure of 150 million monthly they are pulling in from GPU. More than enough to cover thier game studios payroll and buy new content for the service.

Even if we go the other way and suppose 10 million know about the trick, they make 10 million dollars up front plus 8 mil at 15.00 for 120 million monthly. Still more than enough to cover the overhead.

Either way it’s a shit ton of money and nothing we should be concerned about.

I also didn’t factor in the upfront costs of the people doing the 1.00 deal topping up their gold even though MS get it all at once instead of waiting for the 60 every year, unless you assume all Xbox people keep 3 years of XBL gold stacked at all times.

 

[Stuart360]

Ok let’s just say this loophole is as big as you imagine it is, 18 million subscribers right now, let’s say 8 million (a very high and unlikely ratio) know about this loophole and bought 3 years of gold and payed the dollar to upgrade.

MIcrosoft made 8 million dollars at the time of sale and leaves 10 million paying 15.00/month for a rough figure of 150 million monthly they are pulling in from GPU. More than enough to cover thier game studios payroll and buy new content for the service.

Even if we go the other way and suppose 10 million know about the trick, they make 10 mil plus 120 million monthly. Still more than enough to cover the overhead.

Either way it’s a shit ton of money and nothing we should be concerned about.

I also didn’t factor in the upfront costs of the people doing the 1.00 deal topping up their gold even though MS get it all at once instead of waiting for the 60 every year, unless you assume all Xbox people keep 3 years of XBL gold stacked at all times.

Like i said in another thread, to say how hated Microsoft is, there sure is a lot of people worried about them losing money with Gamepass.

Also, if everyone was doing these loopholes, or people are just doing the $1 intro month, wouldnt these numbers be staying level at best every 3 months, if not going down every 3 months. They wouldnt continually be going up at like a miilion new subs a month.
Its like saying 'Yeah Netflix has 200mil subs (or whatever the number is) but i bet 75% of them are just new users doing the free 30 day sign up'. It doesnt work like that.

 

[thismeinteil]

So, that's actually a slowing of growth since their last announcement, which was 5 million for the previous quarter. Not good when you take into consideration that it's available on more platforms, this is after Xmas season, and after a 3 months of Ultimate for $1 sale.

My guess is many are unsubbing after their discount periods are up. Or they are approaching a saturation point for the amount of people interested in it.

 

[Kagey K]

So, that's actually a slowing of growth since their last announcement, which was 5 million for the previous quarter. Not good when you take into consideration that it's available on more platforms, this is after Xmas season, and after a 3 months of Ultimate for $1 sale.

My guess is many are unsubbing after their discount periods are up. Or they are approaching a saturation point for the amount of people interested in it.

It was 5 million over 2 quarters for a rough estimate of 833k/month vs 1Mil/month this quarter.

10-15 was April - Sept

 

[Stuart360]

So, that's actually a slowing of growth since their last announcement, which was 5 million for the previous quarter. Not good when you take into consideration that it's available on more platforms, this is after Xmas season, and after a 3 months of Ultimate for $1 sale.

My guess is many are unsubbing after their discount periods are up. Or they are approaching a saturation point for the amount of people interested in it.

Many people may of cancelled because they want an XSX/XSS but cant because of the shortages. 3mil new users, at 1 mil a month average, is still very good. You are not going to hit the same numbers every quarter.
There WILL be a saturation point though, and the numbers will grow less and less as we reach it. I dont think we are close to it yet though. I mean just imagine what it will be like when Starfield, the next Doom, Fallout, Halo, etc come on it day one. I mean its grown 3mil in 3 months with zero exclusives launched on it in that timeframe

 

[Kerotan]

I'm surprised the rate of growth slowed over the the holiday months.

 

[Shmunter]

Thing is built on a house of cards and ms knows it. That gold increase trying to strong arm users into it was a move of desperation and plain to see.

The sooner they close this gaming pox down, the better for the entire industry.

 

[thismeinteil]

Thing is built on a house of cards and ms knows it. That gold increase trying to strong arm users into it was a move of desperation and plain to see.

The sooner they close this gaming pox down, the better for the entire industry.

Yea. If they were seeing natural growth that met their expectations, there would be no reason for the constant $1 deals ~4 years after launch and trying to basically force people into GamePass by skyrocketing the price of Gold.

Say what you want about Now, but while it's a slow burn, Sony is clearly letting it grow naturally and not sacrifing profit in the hopes it explodes. Even if we say Now has only grown to 3.2M this year (it's probably higher), and everyone subbed took advantage of the 12 months for $42, that's still $134.4M a year.

 

[Kagey K]

I'm surprised the rate of growth slowed over the the holiday months.

It didn't.

Go check you numbers or look a few posts above this one.

 

[SkylineRKR]

GP is cool, but when I browse it, there is some dog shit on there.

I've beaten all Halo's, a few GoW, FH4 and some other games on it. Kinda done with Sea of Thieves atm. Even though those games can likely be gotten for 15 bucks a piece, I still got my moneys worth (I'm an 1 buck subscriber). Currently playing Cyber Shadow which saved me 20 bucks. So far so good, but its backlog does kinda dry up, unless I resort to playing EA trash which I don't. The service needs some new huge drops. Its weird that MS launched the Series without any new game at all.

 

[phil_t98]

Yea. If they were seeing natural growth that met their expectations, there would be no reason for the constant $1 deals ~4 years after launch and trying to basically force people into GamePass by skyrocketing the price of Gold.

Say what you want about Now, but while it's a slow burn, Sony is clearly letting it grow naturally and not sacrifing profit in the hopes it explodes. Even if we say Now has only grown to 3.2M this year (it's probably higher), and everyone subbed took advantage of the 12 months for $42, that's still $134.4M a year.

Even if you take the offer that Microsoft has for gamepass , they are probably making in a month what Sony are making a year on PSNOW. There is no way to spin that positively , Sony should be pushivng PSnow harder.

 

[THE DUCK]

Cyber Shadow is a great example of why gp is worth every penny - yet another game that i would have never tried, yet its fantastic!

 

[Chukhopops]

Thing is built on a house of cards and ms knows it. That gold increase trying to strong arm users into it was a move of desperation and plain to see.

The sooner they close this gaming pox down, the better for the entire industry.

Imagine thinking that the largest by far game subscription service is going to close when Amazon, Google and Apple are trying to catch up with their own services and investments. That won’t happen any time soon I’m afraid...

 

[Bungie]

Wowie! Wonder how many are ultimate subscribers.

 

[thismeinteil]

It didn't.

Go check you numbers or look a few posts above this one.

The 5M was over 5 1/2 months. The 3M was over 3 1/2 months. That's 909K a month vs 857K a month. So, yea, it did decline slightly. Again, this is over holiday season with a 3 months for $1 sale going on.

 

[Kagey K]

Say what you want about Now, but while it's a slow burn, Sony is clearly letting it grow naturally and not sacrifing profit in the hopes it explodes. Even if we say Now has only grown to 3.2M this year (it's probably higher), and everyone subbed took advantage of the 12 months for $42, that's still $134.4M a year.

Their last reported number is 2.2, be interesting to see if they report new ones in earnings day.

How many out of that 18 million Gamepass subscribers do you think are doing the dollar trick vs full price?

 

[thismeinteil]

Even if you take the offer that Microsoft has for gamepass , they are probably making in a month what Sony are making a year on PSNOW. There is no way to spin that positively , Sony should be pushivng PSnow harder.

Highly doubtful. Of course, we already know MS is not profiting on the service, yet.

 

[Blue Spring]

Well, they literally attempted to hike up the price of live gold to push people to gamepass. Clearly showing that they aren't gaining growing fast enough. Also is this reoccurring subscriptions or lifetime? How many are from free trial, poptart boxes, and so fourth?

You wont get an answer for your questions because Microsoft is only looking for positive PR by throwing out random numbers without context or actually breaking down the numbers.

 

[Kagey K]

The 5M was over 5 1/2 months. The 3M was over 3 1/2 months. That's 909K a month vs 857K a month. So, yea, it did decline slightly. Again, this is over holiday season with a 3 months for $1 sale going on.

They aren’t counting the numbers until seconds before the press release,
either way even when you try to skew the numbers it’s growth.

 

[Kagey K]

Highly doubtful. Of course, we already know MS is not profiting on the service, yet.

How many people do you think are doing the one dollar trial and how many are paying full price out of those 18 million?

In your estimation?

 

[phil_t98]

Highly doubtful. Of course, we already know MS is not profiting on the service, yet.

How is it doubtful? 18 mill subscribers, let’s say 8 mill are taking advantage of the deal (highly doubtful it’s that high but ok) that leaves 10 mill paying full price a month, that’s between 100-150 mill a month depending on which version of gamepass they choose versus what you said Sony do a year

 

[thismeinteil]

They aren’t counting the numbers until seconds before the press release,
either way even when you try to skew the numbers it’s growth.

No twisting involved. They announced the 15M in mid-Sept, along with the Bethesda announcement. It wasn't part of a quarterly earnings report, so it wasn't for the full two quarters. That's 5 1/2 months. So the 3M was for the remaining half of Sept, as well as the following 3 months.

 

[Kagey K]

How is it doubtful? 18 mill subscribers, let’s say 8 mill are taking advantage of the deal (highly doubtful it’s that high but ok) that leaves 10 mill paying full price a month, that’s between 100-150 mill a month depending on which version of gamepass they choose versus what you said Sony do a year

I did the math up top. Post #151, and people really underestimate what Gamepass is bringing in for revenue for MS.

8 million is a really high ratio of people exploiting the deal and in reality its likely 3 or 4 million. Any other deal like this sees something like 5% of people taking advantage of it, and the highest around 25% which is still way under both of our estimations.

 

[FatKingBallman]

Ok let’s just say this loophole is as big as you imagine it is, 18 million subscribers right now, let’s say 8 million (a very high and unlikely ratio) know about this loophole and bought 3 years of gold and payed the dollar to upgrade.

MIcrosoft made 8 million dollars at the time of sale and leaves 10 million paying 15.00/month for a rough figure of 150 million monthly they are pulling in from GPU. More than enough to cover thier game studios payroll and buy new content for the service.

Even if we go the other way and suppose 10 million know about the trick, they make 10 million dollars up front plus 8 mil at 15.00 for 120 million monthly. Still more than enough to cover the overhead.

Either way it’s a shit ton of money and nothing we should be concerned about.

I also didn’t factor in the upfront costs of the people doing the 1.00 deal topping up their gold even though MS get it all at once instead of waiting for the 60 every year, unless you assume all Xbox people keep 3 years of XBL gold stacked at all times.

Like i said in another thread, to say how hated Microsoft is, there sure is a lot of people worried about them losing money with Gamepass.

Also, if everyone was doing these loopholes, or people are just doing the $1 intro month, wouldnt these numbers be staying level at best every 3 months, if not going down every 3 months. They wouldnt continually be going up at like a miilion new subs a month.
Its like saying 'Yeah Netflix has 200mil subs (or whatever the number is) but i bet 75% of them are just new users doing the free 30 day sign up'. It doesnt work like that.

It was 5 million over 2 quarters for a rough estimate of 833k/month vs 1Mil/month this quarter.

10-15 was April - Sept

Even if you take the offer that Microsoft has for gamepass , they are probably making in a month what Sony are making a year on PSNOW. There is no way to spin that positively , Sony should be pushivng PSnow harder.

The 5M was over 5 1/2 months. The 3M was over 3 1/2 months. That's 909K a month vs 857K a month. So, yea, it did decline slightly. Again, this is over holiday season with a 3 months for $1 sale going on.

Well, for some reason people are forgetting that Gamepass also launched on the biggest mobile phone platform - Android. To me, IMO surprisingly it is a slow growth.

Their last reported number is 2.2, be interesting to see if they report new ones in earnings day.

How many out of that 18 million Gamepass subscribers do you think are doing the dollar trick vs full price?

Highly doubtful. Of course, we already know MS is not profiting on the service, yet.

How is it doubtful? 18 mill subscribers, let’s say 8 mill are taking advantage of the deal (highly doubtful it’s that high but ok) that leaves 10 mill paying full price a month, that’s between 100-150 mill a month depending on which version of gamepass they choose versus what you said Sony do a year

I'm pretty sure you all know that Phil Spencer need to throw huge amount of money for games every month. Bunch of people are still subscribed to 2022-23, bunch of people are subbed to 3 months for 1$ and so on. To me, IMO, Gamepass isn't profitable yet. Even if they earning $150 mil. per month

 

[phil_t98]

I'm pretty sure you all know that Phil Spencer need to throw huge amount of money for games every month. Bunch of people are still subscribed to 2022-23, bunch of people are subbed to 3 months for 1$ and so on. To me, IMO, Gamepass isn't profitable yet. Even if they earning $150 mil. per month

Well it’s your opinion and am sure they are worried about it

 

[FatKingBallman]

Well it’s your opinion and am sure they are worried about it

Well, you have also your opinion too

 

[thismeinteil]

How is it doubtful? 18 mill subscribers, let’s say 8 mill are taking advantage of the deal (highly doubtful it’s that high but ok) that leaves 10 mill paying full price a month, that’s between 100-150 mill a month depending on which version of gamepass they choose versus what you said Sony do a year

Again, we have no idea how many are unsubbing when the discount ends. My guess is quite a few. If they were retaining that many users, there would be no reason to continue giving the service away for basically nothing for new users this long after it launched. Nor would they have needed to desperately push users to using Game Pass by doubling the price of Gold.

 

[Stuart360]

I love how people say it isnt profitable as if its 'fact'. Thats the problems with fanboys on here, anything negative becomes 'fact'. We have not heard from anyone how well it is or isnt doing, except one person who said it wasnt a huge money maker for Microsoft yet. Saying that doesnt mean they are losing money, no matter how much you want them to.

 

[Shelookdlvl18]

I’m speaking to subs, not console numbers.
And that’s exactly my point. They are giving you GP numbers. Why pick and choose what you’re willing to share? if they don’t release sub numbers for gold and the $1 tie in then they’ll continue to leave themselves open to those doubting how legitimate they are. Plain and simple. It’s not right or wrong, just how it’s going to be. It doesn’t make sense to tell the world your gamepass numbers 3 times in 9 months but never tell what your gold sub numbers are when gold subs gets you an opportunity at a 3 year sub for $1 for potentially millions of people.

I’m not bringing Sony into this but you seem to keep wanting to. Are they beating their chest announcing ps plus subs left and right? Do they offer a promotion where, as a plus subscriber, you can get another subscription for $1 that leaves them open to be questioned? Because that’s what I’m referring to, GPs profitability at 18 million subs when we don’t know how many gold subs were converted for $1. Is it 2 people, 2 million, 5 million? It’s perfectly normal to call these numbers into doubt at this time. They didn’t mention GP subs until the $1 deal was well established. Do a poll and see how many are on the $1 deal. Is it the majority? No. Is it significant? Yes.

When looking at the big picture. You simply don't become as rich and as successful as Microsoft by fudging and padding numbers during earnings calls/releases. You say MS is "leaving themselves open to those doubting how legitimate they are". Out of all the millions and millions of companies in the US. Only 2 lone companies have a AAA credit rating. 2. And Microsoft is one of them. Neither Apple, Amazon, Alphabet, Facebook, or literally any other tech company has such a rating. AAA means that Microsoft's credit rating and debt profile is greater than the United States as a whole. The world's largest economy is more likely to default entirely than Microsoft.

Let that sink in for a minute, and then think about your statement in context to that...

You fought hard, you tried your best, and you should be commended for your efforts, but this war is over. Unfortunately I regret to inform you that your argument has been KIA. Despite your brave actions, and valiant efforts, the facts were simply too overwhelming a force to stem the tide. May gaming have mercy on it's soul.

 

[phil_t98]

Again, we have no idea how many are unsubbing when the discount ends. My guess is quite a few. If they were retaining that many users, there would be no reason to continue giving the service away for basically nothing for new users this long after it launched. Nor would they have needed to desperately push users to using Game Pass by doubling the price of Gold.

So what’s quite a few?

 

[thismeinteil]

I love how people say it isnt profitable as if its 'fact'. Thats the problems with fanboys on here, anything negative becomes 'fact'. We have not heard from anyone how well it is or isnt doing, except one person who said it wasnt a huge money maker for Microsoft yet. Saying that doesnt mean they are losing money, no matter how much you want them to.

Lol, it is a fact. MS said so last year. They are playing the long game. It's not cheap to put games on the service Day 1. Especially when you are constantly having $1 deals.

 

[Kagey K]

Again, we have no idea how many are unsubbing when the discount ends. My guess is quite a few. If they were retaining that many users, there would be no reason to continue giving the service away for basically nothing for new users this long after it launched. Nor would they have needed to desperately push users to using Game Pass by doubling the price of Gold.

so we have that many new subscribers that they are equaling each other out?

Otherwise we should see a drastic decrease no?

There are only something like 50 mil Xbox users, so to hold the numbers they must have burned through most of them by now.m

 

[Stuart360]

Lol, it is a fact. MS said so last year. They are playing the long game. It's not cheap to put games on the service Day 1. Especially when you are constantly having $1 deals.

Bck up what you're saying and show us then. I'd actually like to see it as the only thing i can remember is that tweet that said basically what i said above.

 

[phil_t98]

genuine question now, why are sony fans so concerned with numbers for gamepass? every time there is a gamepass thread its always full of people saying the numbers aint right or the $1 thing. so what's with sony fans and gamepass?

 

[Shelookdlvl18]

Again, we have no idea how many are unsubbing when the discount ends. My guess is quite a few. If they were retaining that many users, there would be no reason to continue giving the service away for basically nothing for new users this long after it launched. Nor would they have needed to desperately push users to using Game Pass by doubling the price of Gold.

See your second sentence there? See how it starts with "My guess"? That's the exact moment when you lost credibility in your argument.

Because rather than looking at the numbers, looking at the facts, and looking at the context... You'd prefer to "guess" ways that it's all fake and made up. You'd prefer to "guess" things into being the way you'd like them to be rather than what they clearly are.

 

[Negotiator101]

Profit?

 

[Kagey K]

genuine question now, why are sony fans so concerned with numbers for gamepass? every time there is a gamepass thread its always full of people saying the numbers aint right or the $1 thing. so what's with sony fans and gamepass?

I think for some of them they are jealous they don’t have it,

Others see that Xbox fans are financing the games by paying the overhead and realize how much money Xbox is bringing in to the division this way.

The last are just fanboys who see everything MS does is wrong.

 

[Stuart360]

genuine question now, why are sony fans so concerned with numbers for gamepass? every time there is a gamepass thread its always full of people saying the numbers aint right or the $1 thing. so what's with sony fans and gamepass?

Because for 10 years they have said how terrible the Xbox division is doing, how Nadella hates it and wants rid, etc. And we get the same shit every quarter Microsoft reveals their results, even like this quarter where the resuults are pretty huge accross the board.
Console way fuckery.

 

[thismeinteil]

so we have that many new subscribers that they are equaling each other out?

Otherwise we should see a drastic decrease no?

There are only something like 50 mil Xbox users, so to hold the numbers they must have burned through most of them by now.m

Lol, that's quite the reach. You realize Game Pass has been available on PC for awhile, as well as being available on Android, now, right? There's an endless well of possible new users.

Bck up what you're saying and show us then. I'd actually like to see it as the only thing i can remember is that tweet that said basically what i said above.

Xbox Game Pass Not Very Profitable, But Microsoft's Thinking Long-Term

Xbox Game Pass is viewed as long-term investment.

screenrant.com

 

[phil_t98]

Lol, it is a fact. MS said so last year. They are playing the long game. It's not cheap to put games on the service Day 1. Especially when you are constantly having $1 deals.

so come on you did the trigger emoji, what's your beef with gamepass?

 

[Stuart360]

Lol, that's quite the reach. You realize Game Pass has been available on PC for awhile, as well as being available on Android, now, right? There's an endless well of possible new users.

Xbox Game Pass Not Very Profitable, But Microsoft's Thinking Long-Term

Xbox Game Pass is viewed as long-term investment.

screenrant.com

Yeah thats it, so how does 'not very profitable' = losing money?.
Fanboy nonsense. The fact that he says'very' shows they are making a profit with it, just not a big one.

 

[FatKingBallman]

genuine question now, why are sony fans so concerned with numbers for gamepass? every time there is a gamepass thread its always full of people saying the numbers aint right or the $1 thing. so what's with sony fans and gamepass?

Maybe because some of you exaggerate in numbers. To me it isn't a rapid growth when Gamepass is available on Android. Completely also ignoring the fact the statement from last year that Gamepass isn't money maker

think for some of them they are jealous they don’t have it

Why they would be jealous?

 

[phil_t98]

Lol, that's quite the reach. You realize Game Pass has been available on PC for awhile, as well as being available on Android, now, right? There's an endless well of possible new users.

Xbox Game Pass Not Very Profitable, But Microsoft's Thinking Long-Term

Xbox Game Pass is viewed as long-term investment.

screenrant.com

so the first line says this

Xbox Game Pass has not been very profitable for Microsoft up to this point

it does not state its not profitable, but its how you read it as being not profitable at all. the key word is very, so they could be making some profit off it

 

[longdi]

Because for 10 years they have said how terrible the Xbox division is doing, how Nadella hates it and wants rid, etc. And we get the same shit every quarter Microsoft reveals their results, even like this quarter where the resuults are pretty huge accross the board.
Console way fuckery.

Phil turns things around and magic happens
Msft is a beast, every fanboys are afraid.

 

[Kagey K]

Maybe because some of you exaggerate in numbers. To me it isn't a rapid growth when Gamepass is available on Android. Completely also ignoring the fact the statement from last year that Gamepass isn't money maker


Why they would be jealous?

Everyone wants games for cheap.

Theres no denying that fact.

 

[Shelookdlvl18]

genuine question now, why are sony fans so concerned with numbers for gamepass? every time there is a gamepass thread its always full of people saying the numbers aint right or the $1 thing. so what's with sony fans and gamepass?

They're salty. Simple as that. There have been times when skepticism was warranted. There have been times when the numbers didn't look so hot. People stated as much.

But now that the numbers look good, there's a few that simply don't want to believe it. There's no reputable people claiming what's being claimed by the few remaining doubters here. I just honestly can't understand all the twists and turns, and believing this but negating that is required in order to follow a path that leads to where they want it to.

 

[thismeinteil]

See your second sentence there? See how it starts with "My guess"? That's the exact moment when you lost credibility in your argument.

Because rather than looking at the numbers, looking at the facts, and looking at the context... You'd prefer to "guess" ways that it's all fake and made up. You'd prefer to "guess" things into being the way you'd like them to be rather than what they clearly are.

And those talking as if it definitely makes a big profit, or has a large number of recurring members must have lost credibility, as well. MS hides their numbers, so everyone must guess.

 

[octiny]

Do a thread, and add a poll. 'How many Gamepass subscribers pay the full standard price a month'. I think you would be surprised by the results.

And make sure the voting is public

 

[FatKingBallman]

Everyone wants games for cheap.Theres no denying that fact.

They are subbed to PS Now. And also, XSS is widely a available in PAL territory which is the cheapest entry in Xbox ecosystem. To me, nor everyone wants it

 

[phil_t98]

And make sure the voting is public

tbh I would trust a vote on here which is mainly sony fans to give accurate results lol