Support NeoGAF

[Black_Stride]

Well... It barely has any RPG mechanics and you are stuck being the witcher Geralt who already has a set personality and abilities.

Also IIRC there weren't much build options aside from developing more your sword skills, magic or alchemy, all three being focused on one thing: combat.

So in the end the player agency when it comes to roleplaying comes only to chosing one dialog option over another, so... For me, imho, it's either not an RPG or maybe just a very shallow one when it comes to actual roleplaying.

So The Witcher is an SRPG.
Shallow RPG.

So still an RPG just a subgenre of RPG.
Just like Starfield is a Shooter RPG.
Just like FFXIV is a JRPG Japanese RPG.

So all still RPGs just subgenres of RPGs.

So if we are making a thread about which RPG we think will sell/review better its fair to compare FFXIV and Starfield as they are both RPGs different subgenres but both RPGs nonetheless.

 

[Punished Miku]

They're both pretty big, and pretty different.

If we're going off past entries, Skyrim has sold more than FF. But now it's not on PS. FFXVI is also only on one console. They'll probably be pretty similar.

I think I'll give the edge in just popularity to Starfield, but it could really go either way.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

It’s a toss up which will review better. Mainline FF games always seem to get pretty generous scores so I’m leaning toward FF XVI.

I think Starfield will sell better though. Bethesda’s games are huge sellers with long legs. Even 10 years from now people will be buying it and modding it.

 

[R6Rider]

Voted Starfield will sell better (obviously) and that FF will review better.

 

[Mr Hyde]

If Final Fantasy is not a complete disaster at launch like 15, it will probably land around 10-12 million. Hopefully 15 hasn't soured the fanbase too much with its troubled development. 16 looks very good based on the trailers. Hyped as fuck for this one.

Starfield is another beast though. If it comes close to being Elder Scrolls in space, and review well like previous games, it will sell a lot more and have way longer legs, despite gamepass taking sales away. I can see it hover around 20-25 million when all is said and done.

 

[TintoConCasera]

So The Witcher is an SRPG.
Shallow RPG.

Yep, that's a good definition imo.

So still an RPG just a subgenre of RPG.

Sorry man, you lost me here...

Starfield seems to be an actual RPG, while Final Fantasy XVI is, unless it changes a lot from previous entries, a JRPG. They'll play completely different, so I still don't see the reason to compare.


But if you ask me... out of those two games, Starfield will be the biggest game by far. I can see people playing FFXVI, beating it, and then forgetting about it.
If Starfield ends up being a good game, it will be played, re-released and modded to hell and back by it's community for years to come.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

11, 12 and 14 are all great. 13 is underrated. 15 is.... ok, 15 was crap.

You. I like you.

 

[Rykan]

Always had a hard time putting games like Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy right next to others like Fallout or Deus Ex.

I say this basically because you can't roleplay in JRPGs, as most of what you do is follow a linear story while doing battles, while in games like Fallout or Deus Ex you can roleplay, making different characters with different traits or personality and overcoming challenges in different ways. Like for example your character can be stealthy, or maybe very strong, or maybe very charismatic... And those traits will alter the gameplay. There's nothing like that in JRPGs, at least in those I have played.

And Rykan , no, it doesn't have anything to do with D&D or tabletop stuff.

You're quite literally using the Tabletop/D&D interpretation of RPG.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

I'll prefer the Devil May Cry like combat of XVI, but hopefully there's plenty of depth to the mechanics (I'm not worried because of the combat director).

To me, using a weapon like a sword (in a game) and coming up with different combos/styles of playing is way more interesting than just shooting.

 

[Myths]

FF10 is rubbish to me, FF12 is far better by leagues.

Outside of that, this is 2010 all over again. FF16 vs. ME2.

 

[TintoConCasera]

You're quite literally using the Tabletop/D&D interpretation of RPG.

No, I'm using the "actual RPG videogame" interpretation of RPG.

Never played tabletop/D&D.

 

[Markio128]

I think the most important take is that they both have the potential to be amazing, so I’m going to stay optimistic. I don’t honestly care which one sells more than the other, or indeed, which game reviews better than the other, only that I hope they both review highly. Then we have two fantastic games to play in 2023 at least.

 

[Topher]

I think the most important take is that they both have the potential to be amazing, so I’m going to stay optimistic. I don’t honestly care which one sells more than the other, or indeed, which game reviews better than the other, only that I hope they both review highly. Then we have two fantastic games to play in 2023 at least.

Exactly. I voted Starfield will end up getting higher review scores but I hope both games are great. I'm certainly not going to cry if Starfield review scores are at 95 and FF XVI is at 96. I'll happily be wrong.

 

[Markio128]

Exactly. I voted Starfield will end up getting higher review scores but I hope both games are great. I'm certainly not going to cry if Starfield review scores are at 95 and FF XVI is at 96. I'll happily be wrong.

Tbh, anything above 85 will still be a buy from me for either game. I’d be stunned if they reached 95+ on MC, but you never know.

 

[Topher]

Tbh, anything above 85 will still be a buy from me for either game. I’d be stunned if they reached 95+ on MC, but you never know.

Same here. I don't have those expectations for either. Not sure I'll buy FF XVI at release until it really has kick ass scores. Starfield will be on Game Pass so that's a no-brainer.

 

[Aion002]

I like third person close combat and magic, so for me FF.

But Starfield will probably sell a lot more.


Now the reviews... After Fallout 76 and FFXV...

 

[TintoConCasera]

Now the reviews... After Fallout 76 and FFXV...

Same companies, but the games are being developed by different people. I wouldn't worry.

 

[johnjohn]

Is this even a question? Starfield will obviously review and sell better.

 

[Aion002]

Same companies, but the games are being developed by different people. I wouldn't worry.

Yeah... However...

 

[Markio128]

Same here. I don't have those expectations for either. Not sure I'll buy FF XVI at release until it really has kick ass scores. Starfield will be on Game Pass so that's a no-brainer.

I think the idea of a Final Fantasy game, with adult themes and DMC style combat, sounds bloody marvellous, but it needs to be more than the sum of its parts. As for Starfield, I’d be more inclined to agree with the higher review scores if it was the next ES. As a new IP, I just don’t have a clue.

 

[Fbh]

I'm way more hyped for FFXVI but I think Starfield will definitely sell better, and it will probably review better too.

I think XVI still has more room to be surprising in both a positive or negative way.

Starfield is probably going to turn out to be what most people expect. A classic Bethesda style game in space.

 

[Pantz]

After the past few years I can believe any game will be a disappointing mess when it launches.
These two, I'm sure will both be great...maybe.

Voting: Starfield will sell more but Final Fantasy XVI will review better

 

[Markio128]

I'm way more hyped for FFXVI but I think Starfield will definitely sell better, and it will probably review better too.

I think XVI still has more room to be surprising in both a positive or negative way.

Starfield is probably going to turn out to be what most people expect. A classic Bethesda style game in space.

I kind of agree, in that it’s probably easier to know what to expect from Starfield. I think if Bethesda can nail the combat and freedom in character choice/style, etc., then it’ll no doubt be another winner.

 

[GymWolf]

What an edgy comment. You’re so cool

I know right, ff hasn't been good since ff9 not 10.

 

[Beechos]

Easily starfield for both despite the day 1 gamepass.

 

[Rykan]

No, I'm using the "actual RPG videogame" interpretation of RPG.

Never played tabletop/D&D.

The actual RPG video game interpretation includes JRPGs such as Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest. You and a very small minority try to exclude them from the RPG genre. Everyone else and the industry at large considers them RPGs. They always have.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

You seriously have to wonder the sheer insanity of people when they look at the latest footage of these two games, and somehow, someway, by the skin of their teeth on God's green Earth, convince themselves that Starfield will turn out to be the better game. From what I've seen so far, Starfield wishes it looked as polished and ran as well as FF XVI.

Now, about sales, that is a big question mark. We have more than enough evidence by now that for AAA games, Day 1 in GamePass does not lead to a bump in sales, and now Starfield has one less platform to sell on than it would have otherwise. Add to that nothing shown of the game seems all that different than the prior Fallout game except now it is in space. I cannot see this game selling as well as Fallout 3 or Fallout 4, and you can forget about it reaching Skyrim numbers.

However, it is probably still possible the game will move between 6 - 7 million lifetime, the bigger factor is going to be how many extra subs and increase in revenue it brings to
GamePass. So while based on what we've seen for both games I might say this is undeserved, I DO think Starfield might potentially sell slightly more than FF XVI but that's with having the advantage of effectively three platforms (Series S, X, and PC) versus only one for FF XVI (PS5).

If either of the two games stands to have a clean increase in sales over previous iterations though, it's FF XVI. The difference in quality between the initial reveal and the recent showing in June is just amazing. I went from being so-so to now, I am actively looking forward to playing the game. It's the very opposite reaction I've had towards Starfield, which went from a definite must-play to a "I'll wait for some trustworthy first impressions, maybe play it down the line" type of deal.

Judging from the general drop in overall interest outside of the very devoted faithful, I'm probably not the only one with this type of opinion. Far from it.

 

[GymWolf]

You seriously have to wonder the sheer insanity of people when they look at the latest footage of these two games, and somehow, someway, by the skin of their teeth on God's green Earth, convince themselves that Starfield will turn out to be the better game. From what I've seen so far, Starfield wishes it looked as polished and ran as well as FF XVI.

Now, about sales, that is a big question mark. We have more than enough evidence by now that for AAA games, Day 1 in GamePass does not lead to a bump in sales, and now Starfield has one less platform to sell on than it would have otherwise. Add to that nothing shown of the game seems all that different than the prior Fallout game except now it is in space. I cannot see this game selling as well as Fallout 3 or Fallout 4, and you can forget about it reaching Skyrim numbers.

However, it is probably still possible the game will move between 6 - 7 million lifetime, the bigger factor is going to be how many extra subs and increase in revenue it brings to
GamePass. So while based on what we've seen for both games I might say this is undeserved, I DO think Starfield might potentially sell slightly more than FF XVI but that's with having the advantage of effectively three platforms (Series S, X, and PC) versus only one for FF XVI (PS5).

If either of the two games stands to have a clean increase in sales over previous iterations though, it's FF XVI. The difference in quality between the initial reveal and the recent showing in June is just amazing. I went from being so-so to now, I am actively looking forward to playing the game. It's the very opposite reaction I've had towards Starfield, which went from a definite must-play to a "I'll wait for some trustworthy first impressions, maybe play it down the line" type of deal.

Judging from the general drop in overall interest outside of the very devoted faithful, I'm probably not the only one with this type of opinion. Far from it.

To me is absurd thinking that a final fantasy game is gonna be even remotely close to a bethesda game when it comes to role play but here we are.

Of course ff is gonna be way more polished, it is by far the most safe game between the 2.

Can you even kill npcs in a ff game? Lol can you even interact with them?

The amount of rpg mechanics/interactions that are completely absent in a ff game are gigantic dude.

Also starfield is gonna be the faaaaar bigger and ambitious game between the 2.

P.s. and believe me i have no interest in defending bethesda games.

 

[TintoConCasera]

You seriously have to wonder the sheer insanity of people when they look at the latest footage of these two games, and somehow, someway, by the skin of their teeth on God's green Earth, convince themselves that Starfield will turn out to be the better game. From what I've seen so far, Starfield wishes it looked as polished and ran as well as FF XVI.

Games like Skyrim, Deus Ex or STALKER as jank as all fuck, yet they are still considered pretty good games as they still manage to offer a lot of fun and different possibilities. Meanwhile a very polished game could still be shallow as fuck and end up boring you after a few hours.

 

[Guilty_AI]

You seriously have to wonder the sheer insanity of people when they look at the latest footage of these two games, and somehow, someway, by the skin of their teeth on God's green Earth, convince themselves that Starfield will turn out to be the better game. From what I've seen so far, Starfield wishes it looked as polished and ran as well as FF XVI.

FFXVI definitely looks better. Will it be a better game however? History doesn't do it any favors. At least Bethesda games have scope.

But what does it even matter, we all know the actual best RPG from 2023 will be Baldurs Gate 3

 

[yazenov]

Guys, I think any discussions on how well MS 1st party games sell from now on is redundant after Gamepass and post Xbox one where MS won't disclose any actual sales numbers of their software. So sales discussion on their games is meaningless. You'll only find out theit rankings on NPD and the UK charts without any numbers. So have fun discussing a bunch of nothing.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Guys, I think any discussions on how well MS 1st party games sell from now on is redundant after Gamepass and post Xbox one where MS won't disclose any actual sales numbers of their software. So sales discussion on their games is meaningless. You'll only find out theit rankings on NPD and the UK charts without any numbers. So have fun discussing a bunch of nothing.

OP's asking which one will be better/bigger. Not everyone is focusing on sales here (at least, not me!)

 

[remember_spinal]

Guys, I think any discussions on how well MS 1st party games sell from now on is redundant after Gamepass and post Xbox one where MS won't disclose any actual sales numbers of their software. So sales discussion on their games is meaningless. You'll only find out theit rankings on NPD and the UK charts without any numbers. So have fun discussing a bunch of nothing.

I think bethesda themselves might still publish numbers? Not sure

 

[yazenov]

OP's asking which one will be better/bigger. Not everyone is focusing on sales here (at least, not me!)

Define bigger? Most people are discussing reviews and sales in this thread.

remember_spinal

I don't think so oncs MS makes the purchase official. They won't disclose any numbers.

 

[RoadHazard]

I believe both will be disappointments.

FF7R is absolutely terrible, and while I haven't played FF15, Fallout 4 or Fallout 76 I haven't heard much good about any of them.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Define bigger? Most people are discussing reviews and sales in this thread.

For me, it's the game being better or worse than the other one. Some other people are also talking review scores, but I try to not care about those.

 

[Spyxos]

Final Fanatsy is huge, but not sure they can deliver something good. Starfield looks like nobody outside gaming forums really even knows about this game, but it is on gamepass so it has to sell less.

 

[hinch7]

Before Game Pass I would say Starfield would've had a chance, in commercial sales. With Game Pass, and it being on PC from the get go I'd say they'd be quite evenly split. With FF being a huge franchise though it being on PS5 initially will limit its potential. With its eventual release on PC bridging the gap. Both will sell extremely well. It'll be interesting to see if Bethesda actually shares sales data as MS doesn't really share sales data on those on Game Pass - for obvious reasons.

Critically I'm not sure. Reviewers are more critical to bugs and stuff these days and I'd imagine with Bethesda there being quite a few out of the gate.

 

[West Texas CEO]

Final Fantasy is gone, man. It ain't coming back.

Starfield will be the start of something refreshing. I very much look forward to it.

 

[SSfox]

I don't care about which one will sell. Personally speaking i'm super hype about FF16, Starfield don't care.

 

[GymWolf]

FFXVI definitely looks better. Will it be a better game however? History doesn't do it any favors. At least Bethesda games have scope.

But what does it even matter, we all know the actual best RPG from 2023 will be Baldurs Gate 3

This most probably unless starfield is even more in-depth compared to skyrim\fallout.

 

[GymWolf]

Final Fanatsy is huge, but not sure they can deliver something good. Starfield looks like nobody outside gaming forums really even knows about this game, but it is on gamepass so it has to sell less.

This feel a bit disconnected from reality.
Skyrim sold like 3 times the copies of the last main ff game dude...

Even that big turd of fallout 4 sold a couple of millions more...

 

[Comandr]

Idk I’ll never sink 1000 hours into FFXVI, over the course of three generations and platforms, enjoy multiple play throughs with different gameplay styles, have meaningful personal agenda or choice, or be able to mod the shit out of it until it’s a completely different game. Love them or hate them, Bethesda makes great games, and through an incredible community, are nearly infinitely replayable. I think that makes the better game, and the sales are proof of it.

Now, which will have the better narrative? That’s another question entirely. I am honestly put off by how much 16 looks like 14. Feels like we are just getting cutscene quality 14 models and called it a day. Finally im not big on the character action looking combat. It’s ironic that yoshi p wanted to pursue a medieval fantasy and go “back to old school styling” and then used an ultra modern combat system. Maybe the game will blow my tits off but I’m not holding my breath.

 

[Spyxos]

This feel a bit disconnected from reality.
Skyrim sold like 3 times the copies of the last main ff game dude...

Even that big turd of fallout 4 sold a couple of millions more...

It is not a Fallout or Elder scrolls game. It's a new ip that many people don't even know about. Final Fantasy MMO is huge.

 

[Chukhopops]

Final Fanatsy is huge, but not sure they can deliver something good. Starfield looks like nobody outside gaming forums really even knows about this game, but it is on gamepass so it has to sell less.

Uh, no?

And that’s before any marketing is spent.

 

[GymWolf]

It is not a Fallout or Elder scrolls game. It's a new ip that many people don't even know about. Final Fantasy MMO is huge.

You really undervalue bethesda fans and their hype...

They probably see a space skyrim like the second coming of todd.

There is not gonna be a single bethesda real fanboy that is not gonna buy this game, shit i'm going day one myself and i kinda hate bethesda games...

Yeah mmo ff is famous, but the last memory of a decent single player ff game is from fucking playstation 1 times...their last one was as shitty as it comes.

 

[Josemayuste]

Both of them will be called out for being steps down behind previous games, Starfield will have some bugs here and there, reviews will be average 70/80ish MC score and a few years and patches later both will be regarded as great games, same story with every major release.

Also one is a JRPG and the other a WRPG, it can't really be compared.

 

[Amish Prince]

If we don't count with FFXIV or FFVII Remake sure

Or FFXII the goat

 

[pasterpl]

Skyrim will review better and will sell more.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

To me is absurd thinking that a final fantasy game is gonna be even remotely close to a bethesda game when it comes to role play but here we are.

Quantity != Quality

Of course ff is gonna be way more polished, it is by far the most safe game between the 2.

Safer != Worst

Can you even kill npcs in a ff game? Lol can you even interact with them?

Killing NPCs != Better. Also most people don't care.

The amount of rpg mechanics/interactions that are completely absent in a ff game are gigantic dude.

More mechanics != Better. Also I'd rather have a focused experience than 1,000 planets where 99% of them are just floating balls of dust and minerals for mining and nothing more.

Also starfield is gonna be the faaaaar bigger and ambitious game between the 2.

Bigger != Better. Man you dudes are missing ALL the shots in this game xD.

P.s. and believe me i have no interest in defending bethesda games.

Doesn't matter. You said enough to lure Bethesda hardcore fans to celebrate you in the streets. Kind of ironic.

Games like Skyrim, Deus Ex or STALKER as jank as all fuck, yet they are still considered pretty good games as they still manage to offer a lot of fun and different possibilities. Meanwhile a very polished game could still be shallow as fuck and end up boring you after a few hours.

Larger games with tons of mechanics and possibilities can also run the risk of being shallow if those mechanics and game systems don't equal more than the sum of their parts. Or, they could have a lot of broken mechanics and systems as a result, or tons of filler.

There are risks to both styles of game design.

FFXVI definitely looks better. Will it be a better game however? History doesn't do it any favors. At least Bethesda games have scope.

What scope? The copy-and-paste scope? Because that's what Starfield basically is. Fallout in Space. That is more or less Starfield from what has been shown and discussed so far.

I wouldn't call scope good just for the sake of it being grand. Smaller games also have scope, just different direction and flavor. A lot of times, they can execute that scope better and be better games for it.

But what does it even matter, we all know the actual best RPG from 2023 will be Baldurs Gate 3

Depends on your tastes.