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[Boss Mog]

65 teraflops vs 12/10....

Yeah it doesn't work like that as games made for consoles are heavily optimized because devs know the exact hardware that is in every box. Console exclusives are even more optimized since devs don't have to worry about other versions and can do more low level coding. PC games are much less optimized as devs don't know the exact hardware your PC has and they therefor can't specifically cater to it; they paint with a broad brush to ensure maximum hardware compatibility. nVidia and AMD are forced to pick up the slack and optimize their drivers for each game in order to squeeze out better performance but the fact is games running on PC achieve only about half of what their hardware could do if the game was coded specifically for it.

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

The point stands. High end PC's are pushed once a generation. Cyberpunk is doing it now. The vast majority of games will not. In other words, PC's hardly make anyone jealous when we are playing the same games. Especially this gen with 60fps on consoles. I've been enjoying PC gaming all last gen. When I played Gears 5 on my Xbox One X vs. My more powerful PC, did I notice much of an upgrade? Barely. Its nice to have better IQ but is it worth 1500 more than a console? Not currently. In a couple years, yes.

I mean honestly, where are these huge dense PC games besides Cyberpunk? You say Ghost is a huge empty world, where is the dense equivalent on PC? Where are the games on PC that put TLOU2 to shame? Can they be made? Sure. Will they? Nope. The money is in making games that are compatible with consoles. Look what happens when they fail to do so, they get taken off PSN and have an abysmal user score.

I only just got into PC gaming for the first time just over a year ago. I have heard the "there's no games leveraging PC hardware exclusively" talking point quite a bit. It's not necessarily wrong but I feel that it glosses over a big point, at least for me. Every single game I play on my PC plays and looks better than on console. Destiny 2 was the first game I tried and playing it on a 38" ultrawide @120fps is an entirely different experience than playing on console even though it's technically the same game.

I've had these experiences with every game I've gone back and played and it honestly felt like experiencing it for the first time all over. On console it will be up to the developer to give a performance mode option to target 60fps but so far they're having to make quite a few sacrifices on the graphics side to maintain that target. On PC that's not a concern as I can get the benefit of both including fps and graphics.

I do intend to get a PS5 eventually when God of War & Horizon 2 come out, plus I do want to play Ghost of Tsushima cause it looks amazing. But PC is well worth the price of entry well beyond only validating its existence on if a game is strictly made with PC specs in mind. Cause at the end of the day most of the games we play are 3rd party games and they'll always look and play better on PC.

 

[archangelmorph]

I only just got into PC gaming for the first time just over a year ago. I have heard the "there's no games leveraging PC hardware exclusively" talking point quite a bit. It's not necessarily wrong but I feel that it glosses over a big point, at least for me. Every single game I play on my PC plays and looks better than on console. Destiny 2 was the first game I tried and playing it on a 38" ultrawide @120fps is an entirely different experience than playing on console even though it's technically the same game.

I've had these experiences with every game I've gone back and played and it honestly felt like experiencing it for the first time all over. On console it will be up to the developer to give a performance mode option to target 60fps but so far they're having to make quite a few sacrifices on the graphics side to maintain that target. On PC that's not a concern as I can get the benefit of both including fps and graphics.

I do intend to get a PS5 eventually when God of War & Horizon 2 come out, plus I do want to play Ghost of Tsushima cause it looks amazing. But PC is well worth the price of entry well beyond only validating its existence on if a game is strictly made with PC specs in mind. Cause at the end of the day most of the games we play are 3rd party games and they'll always look and play better on PC.

So this is a fair impression but I’m not sure it entirely holds this gen, not yet anyway.

PC games on top end hardware with always scale graphics up more effectively but with the advent of extremely high bandwidth I/O paths between RAM and solid state on consoles now, it will take some time for PCs to catch up in terms of providing parity or superiority of experiences in every sense. Especially when we consider games that make heavy or exotic use of this high bandwidth as the gen progresses.

PCs having a more modular architecture make it much harder to compete on that front, as you’re quite limited (physically) on how close you can get your CPU, GPU and SSD chips through the many layers of transport buses, controller chips and interconnect sockets, vis-a-vis having everything fused to the same fabric.

So in short, PC games will visually scale better, but sacrifices will have to be made to make games designed natively for PS5 gen hardware work well on PC, and this may disadvantage the play experience in material ways. Increased load times is the trivial case, but for e.g. Unreal Engine 5 games, with entirely streaming-based software architectures, you may not even be able to get the game looking better on PC because fidelity is no longer bound by what you can load in memory once and render many times, but based on how fast you can stream in/out extremely detailed geometry, material and lighting information on a just-in-time basis.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

This thread taught me that some PC gamers live in a mythical universe where the only component that is ever outdated and in need of an upgrade is the GPU

 

[Azurro]

Several console warriors on this site refused to believe it. If they can post "PC is doomed" threads, 24/7 prior to console launch, I don't see why that's a problem?

You people have a persecution complex.

 

[Great Hair]

65 teraflops vs 12/10....

Batt de ixsboks series eks hef 25 tera flops!!!111

joke aside:

Spoiler: eye em bord aut of meye maind

if
37Teraflops RTX3090 = avg. 50% better than 2080Ti, 100% with RT
then
64Terfaalslpos RTX5090 = avg. 100% better than 2080Ti, 200% with RT enabled

And if we all created a youtube channel now! about hardware, get about 500,000 subscribers each by 2022 and as long we highlight how dope the raytracing capabilities are of the RTX5090! :wink:wink: ... we all will get one given for free!!!

 

[YCoCg]

Yeah I'm not believing this for now, all the early rumours for Ampere ended up as lies, I'm not getting my hopes up again.

 

[smbu2000]

A lot of insecurity by exactly those console « peasants » on TFLOPs interpretation.



Yea it’s the most tiring « GOTCHA » attempts. As if gaming is the only purpose of a PC for everyone. On top of that, resale prices of hardware ages really well for high end cards, 2080 TI for example, losing a whooping 100$ dollar for 2 years of use, sometimes sold at MSRP even or above as of right now.

And 3999$ PC
Been building PCs for 25 years, never spent that much, even on the shitty Canadian currency.

The value of the 2080ti tanked once the 3080 and 3070 were announced. When you can get near 2080ti performance from the 3070 at $500, the $1000 (more like $1200) 2080ti cards dropped to at or near the $500 price of the 3070.
If you sold your card just before the announcement of the performance of the 3080/3070 then you could get decent value, but after that...nope.

 

[Rikkori]

So this is a fair impression but I’m not sure it entirely holds this gen, not yet anyway.

PC games on top end hardware with always scale graphics up more effectively but with the advent of extremely high bandwidth I/O paths between RAM and solid state on consoles now, it will take some time for PCs to catch up in terms of providing parity or superiority of experiences in every sense. Especially when we consider games that make heavy or exotic use of this high bandwidth as the gen progresses.

PCs having a more modular architecture make it much harder to compete on that front, as you’re quite limited (physically) on how close you can get your CPU, GPU and SSD chips through the many layers of transport buses, controller chips and interconnect sockets, vis-a-vis having everything fused to the same fabric.

So in short, PC games will visually scale better, but sacrifices will have to be made to make games designed natively for PS5 gen hardware work well on PC, and this may disadvantage the play experience in material ways. Increased load times is the trivial case, but for e.g. Unreal Engine 5 games, with entirely streaming-based software architectures, you may not even be able to get the game looking better on PC because fidelity is no longer bound by what you can load in memory once and render many times, but based on how fast you can stream in/out extremely detailed geometry, material and lighting information on a just-in-time basis.

This is false. It's predicated on a very basic & shallow understanding of both I/O & the speeds of the components in question. It should be immediately obvious that it's false as soon as you find out what the actual speed of the SSD is vs RAM/VRAM - for example, even taking the "5.5 GB/s" figure (which is irrelevant as that's for copying files around rather than gameplay, which would have QD1 speeds be the important ones) it pales in comparison with the RAM (DDR4 2400mhz QdCh - 64 GB/s) or VRAM bandwidth (3090 - 936.2 GB/s). And that doesn't go into latency (much worse than either V/RAM), doesn't take into account DDR5 coming in a year and change, doesn't take into account RAMDisks, doesn't take into account Optane, doesn't take into account developments like Infinity Cache, doesn't take into account RTXIO, doesn't take into account... etc.

Read & re-read this article until you know it by heart like The Lord's Prayer, then we'll talk about how the PS5 I/O can't be "matched" on PC.

Storage Matters: Why Xbox and Playstation SSDs Usher In A New Era of Gaming

www.anandtech.com

 

[UnNamed]

So what's the "REAL" TF number this GPU will be? More like 35TF? 40TFs at best?

Teraflops is meaningless since you don't know:

-what type of operation the system is doing: 1 OPS is the same as 10 OPS if the first is 14x10=140 while the second is 14+14+14+14+14+14+14+14+14+14=140

-the FLOPS are not the same since you can have a different precision: 10TF 8bit precision is very different from 10TF 32bit precision.

 

[Buggy Loop]

The value of the 2080ti tanked once the 3080 and 3070 were announced. When you can get near 2080ti performance from the 3070 at $500, the $1000 (more like $1200) 2080ti cards dropped to at or near the $500 price of the 3070.
If you sold your card just before the announcement of the performance of the 3080/3070 then you could get decent value, but after that...nope.

No. That’s what should have happened, but since everything is sold out, those 2080 TI are selling at ~1k$ on eBay.

 

[rodrigolfp]

That's what I hate from PC gaming: you have a 64TF GPU and 16 core CPU, but the best you can do is run PS4 games in 8K when you could already run PS6 games.

That's what I love from pc gaming: it`s far from being only about graphics. Duh $400 vs $1000+ duh (not from you this). When this $400 boxes give me the same or more freedom/options and better games than the $1000+ box I will prefer them and not treat them as only "some exclusives boxes"...

 

[DeepEnigma]

But can it run Cyberpunk?

It will iron the bugs out.

 

[Malakhov]

Pc are so superior yet I can't find a pc game running on my Rtx 3080 that looks as good as demon's souls on my ps5

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Pc are so superior yet I can't find a pc game running on my Rtx 3080 that looks as good as demon's souls on my ps5

Even DF and multiple outlets said Cyberpunk objectively looks much better than demon souls and any other game out, due to the sheer rendering techniques that are not used in other games. And CP2077 is a multiplatform game at that.

 

[Malakhov]

Even DF and multiple outlets said Cyberpunk objectively looks much better than demon souls and any other game out, due to the sheer rendering techniques that are not used in other games. And CP2077 is a multiplatform game at that.

I don't care about outlets, I've tried cyberpunk and it doesn't look better than demon's souls, not even rdr2. It's generic as fuck, there is absolutely no art in it, it's generic techno crap. Absolutely no art style in there and you need a mix of both art and tech to get a good looking game

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

I don't care about outlets, I've tried cyberpunk and it doesn't look better than demon's souls, not even rdr2. It's generic as fuck, there is absolutely no art in it, it's generic techno crap

And you are not wrong to have your own personal opinion on a subjective thing such as art. But from a technical/objective standpoint, demon Souls doesn't have anything on cyberpunk graphically nor technically speaking. Did you play CP on ps4 or ps5? As they are both the last gen version of the game, unlike the PC iteration.

 

[GrayFoxPL]

Nvidia 64

 

[Malakhov]

And you are not wrong to have your own personal opinion on a subjective thing such as art. But from a technical standpoint, demon Souls doesn't have anything on cyberpunk graphically nor technically speaking. Did you play CP on ps4 or ps5? As they are both the last gen version of the game, unlike the PC iteration.

I played cp on pc with a Rtx 3080, it is obviously the only game so far that truly 'feels' next gen but it isn't the best looking game out there like I said. I'd still take rdr2 on pc above it

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

I played cp on pc with a Rtx 3080, it is obviously the only game so far that truly 'feels' next gen but it isn't the best looking game out there like I said. I'd still take rdr2 on pc above it

When you say best looking game, are you still referring to is art style? Because that's different from using new rendering techniques. CP is a completely new game with much more going on. Higher density populations, big open world areas, much better lighting, best raytracing, etc. DS is the same game, but with a fresh can of paint.

 

[Malakhov]

When you say best looking game, are you still referring to is art style? Because that's different from using new rendering techniques. CP is a completely new game with much more going on. Higher density populations, big open world areas, much better lighting, best raytracing, etc. DS is the same game, but with a fresh can of paint.

Best looking as in graphic, tech and art style, the whole package. Cyberpunk only has the tech going for it, it's generic looking shit once the wow factor is done

 

[YCoCg]

Pc are so superior yet I can't find a pc game running on my Rtx 3080 that looks as good as demon's souls on my ps5

You should know people get banned for such blatant derailing attempts.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Pc are so superior yet I can't find a pc game running on my Rtx 3080 that looks as good as demon's souls on my ps5

Ask Bluepoint to release DS on pc using all the power of the RTX 3080 for graphics. But as people still buy consoles and not RTX 3080 they will still target what a PS5 can do and not what a RTX 3080 can.

 

[Cockles & Whelks]

Good luck, even a Voodoo FX from 20 years ago probably goes for £900 on eBay.

 

[ShirAhava]

Pc are so superior yet I can't find a pc game running on my Rtx 3080 that looks as good as demon's souls on my ps5

 

[Malakhov]

Ask Bluepoint to release DS on pc using all the power of the RTX 3080 for graphics. But as people still buy consoles and not RTX 3080 they will still target what a PS5 can do and not what a RTX 3080 can.

That would actually be great, would buy day one

 

[Virt McPolygon]

Some people in here sounding like this is their first decade of gaming.

 

[archangelmorph]

This is false. It's predicated on a very basic & shallow understanding of both I/O & the speeds of the components in question. It should be immediately obvious that it's false as soon as you find out what the actual speed of the SSD is vs RAM/VRAM - for example, even taking the "5.5 GB/s" figure (which is irrelevant as that's for copying files around rather than gameplay, which would have QD1 speeds be the important ones) it pales in comparison with the RAM (DDR4 2400mhz QdCh - 64 GB/s) or VRAM bandwidth (3090 - 936.2 GB/s). And that doesn't go into latency (much worse than either V/RAM), doesn't take into account DDR5 coming in a year and change, doesn't take into account RAMDisks, doesn't take into account Optane, doesn't take into account developments like Infinity Cache, doesn't take into account RTXIO, doesn't take into account... etc.

Read & re-read this article until you know it by heart like The Lord's Prayer, then we'll talk about how the PS5 I/O can't be "matched" on PC.

Storage Matters: Why Xbox and Playstation SSDs Usher In A New Era of Gaming

www.anandtech.com

You don't seem to understand my point nor do you seem to understand how streaming works.

When you're streaming game asset data from disk for the kind of geometry/material/lighting data (JIT) streaming seen in the Unreal Engine 5 demo, VRAM bandwidth is only relevant to the extent that you can fit all your asset data into your working set. The working set itself is bound to the view current frustrum, buffered for orientation motion and translation speed through the game world. As soon as you need to invalidate and load in new clusters of data into your working set, your immediately disk I/O bound assuming you don't have more VRAM to spare.

RAMDisks may help minimally as a disk cache but the still dont solve it unless you have crazy amounts of RAM to load most of the on-disk game data into (and the game doesn't already need the RAM to spare because you're actively taking it away).

Optane is better but costs are insane, would require direct developer support (no devs are going to implement that) and I can't see retail uptake of this tech at all.

RTXIO is part of the solution but still depends on fast SSDs to realise gains.

Ultimately my overall point in the previous post was this...

All else being equal, next gen performance is going to depend far more a fully balanced system architecture than it will on simply having crazy high compute power in any discrete piece of silicon. Granted more power will help and allow you to do prettier in some largely typical ways (high frame rates, more resolution, better IQ, higher accuracy materials, RT fidelity etc), but that won't be the be all and end all.

I'm not saying PC won't get there; of course it will, and the direction of travel set by next gen console architectures is probably already pushing PC part vendors in that direction, but it's important to consider that even on PC, SSDs are going to matter increasingly more over the mid-to-longer term (not just GPUs).

 

[Kenpachii]

You don't seem to understand my point nor do you seem to understand how streaming works.

When you're streaming game asset data from disk for the kind of geometry/material/lighting data (JIT) streaming seen in the Unreal Engine 5 demo, VRAM bandwidth is only relevant to the extent that you can fit all your asset data into your working set. The working set itself is bound to the view current frustrum, buffered for orientation motion and translation speed through the game world. As soon as you need to invalidate and load in new clusters of data into your working set, your immediately disk I/O bound assuming you don't have more VRAM to spare.

RAMDisks may help minimally as a disk cache but the still dont solve it unless you have crazy amounts of RAM to load most of the on-disk game data into (and the game doesn't already need the RAM to spare because you're actively taking it away).

Optane is better but costs are insane, would require direct developer support (no devs are going to implement that) and I can't see retail uptake of this tech at all.

RTXIO is part of the solution but still depends on fast SSDs to realise gains.

Ultimately my overall point in the previous post was this...

All else being equal, next gen performance is going to depend far more a fully balanced system architecture than it will on simply having crazy high compute power in any discrete piece of silicon. Granted more power will help and allow you to do prettier in some largely typical ways (high frame rates, more resolution, better IQ, higher accuracy materials, RT fidelity etc), but that won't be the be all and end all.

I'm not saying PC won't get there; of course it will, and the direction of travel set by next gen console architectures is probably already pushing PC part vendors in that direction, but it's important to consider that even on PC, SSDs are going to matter increasingly more over the mid-to-longer term (not just GPUs).

3rd party developers uses PC tech in there games.
nobody uses sony's tech.

What's your point exactly?

PS5 will be hamstringed the xbox series x for console exclusives which will be a budget PC solution. Sony exclusives can do what they want. they can stream all the data they want not a single fuck was given that day on PC because the games are not hitting PC to start with and when they do they will be designed to work or basically not use the SSD of the PS5 other then just a bit of faster loading.

The same way as a PS5 is limited towards what a PC delivers when it comes to raw performance on hardware which funny enough always wins out on any technique invented.

I am still waiting on the death of dedicated GPU's because they simple can't compete anymore against apu direct access. Oh boy and did that age well with the
PS4. PS4 could barely run games at launch playable and absolutely crawled through mud the entire generation to the point they had to release a faster console for people to not straight up ditch the PS4 entirely at that point because of its dog shit performance.

Honestly consoles are barely keeping up with mid range 2 year old pc's at thsi point, and that won't change when every year new and faster hardware releases the PS5 will crawl further and further and further behind like it always does.

Which is fine by the way its a 500 dollar box so what can u expect from it.

 

[UnNamed]

That's what I love from pc gaming: it`s far from being only about graphics. Duh $400 vs $1000+ duh (not from you this). When this $400 boxes give me the same or more freedom/options and better games than the $1000+ box I will prefer them and not treat them as only "some exclusives boxes"...

I've said what I hate from PC gaming.
Not I hate PC gaming.

 

[Outlier]

Guess I won't be getting a 3000 series card, after all. Will just have to wait for the 4000 series.

Because the performance of the 3000 series doesn't bow me away, so probably for the best.

 

[rodrigolfp]

I've said what I hate from PC gaming.
Not I hate PC gaming.

I did not say you hate.

 

[TheKratos]

Guess I won't be getting a 3000 series card, after all. Will just have to wait for the 4000 series.

Because the performance of the 3000 series doesn't bow me away, so probably for the best.

Same. In general I think skipping 1 generation is the way to go for me. I always buy the best card that usually stays good for 4-5 years.

 

[Redneckerz]

I'm glad that this thread by some does not appeal to common sense. Edgy takes and effort is an effort by itself.

The same way as a PS5 is limited towards what a PC delivers when it comes to raw performance on hardware which funny enough always wins out on any technique invented.

This song and dance keeps on iterating at the start of every new generation (And some deterred will keep it up even long after).

1. New console/console games showcase incredible visuals courtesy of magic sauce
2. Complaints ensue: ''Consoles are a budget solution, low power x, will be hamstrung'' and so on. (Ofcourse they are a budget solution. They are 500 bucks tops else they don't sell. )
3. Rinse and repeat. New PC games get released that take advantage of exclusive features (Which will still occur even with current-gen having RT implementations: AMD RT ain't the same as Nvidia RT so accuracy improvements/additional features will always be elsewhere)
4. New generation appears, story of a generation repeats.

I never understood why PC gamers need to tell and prove console gamers that their rigs are better.
I never understood why console gamers need to tell and prove PC gamers that their consoles have exclusives/amazing visuals.

It is such a trite topic. Why try to convince someone whether you are a PC or console gamer of the opposite, when you could be playing, you know, games instead?

This would automatically erase any entertaining meta-complaining about having to work through backlogs, because you are actually playing games.

But that's just me. I play games from the stone age, whilst recognizing how much better things have become, and yet still be entirely satisfied by old and outdated shit.

All is relative. But perhaps i shouldn't cast a spell of nuance here knowing my magic skills.

PS4 could barely run games at launch playable and absolutely crawled through mud the entire generation to the point they had to release a faster console for people to not straight up ditch the PS4 entirely at that point because of its dog shit performance.

1080p30 is crawled through mud? Your argument would fare better at the PS360 generation where titles would regularly dip below playable threshholds (Or held native 720p, for that matter). It was accepted still back then. CP2077 on PS4/XBO actually harbors back to that kind of performance and its now universally panned. Why? Because last-gen at the very least brought a far more stable experience to the table, even with anemic netbook Jaguar cores.

Which is fine by the way its a 500 dollar box so what can u expect from it.

It obviously isn't fine, or you wouldn't be making a post dunking so dastardly on current-gen consoles in general. Perhaps you are expecting something more from a 500 dollar box? Who is to say.

 

[Allnamestakenlol]

Pc are so superior yet I can't find a pc game running on my Rtx 3080 that looks as good as demon's souls on my ps5

Has everything to do with the developer. As mentioned above, if DS was on PC it could potentially look even better than it does on PS5. But you know that - you're just trying to rustle some jimmies, be honest.

 

[Represent.]

65 TFlops of power and I guarantee you Naughty Dogs next PS5 game will look significantly better than anything on PC.

PC Gaming is a waste of money until and unless developers get big budgets sand make real exclusives that push the power/platform.

 

[rodrigolfp]

65 TFlops of power and I guarantee you Naughty Dogs next PS5 game will look significantly better than anything on PC.

PC Gaming is a waste of money until and unless developers get big budgets sand make real exclusives that push the power/platform.

Ah yes. All that milions of games in console library that have perfect IQ at whatever resolution I can choose, that good 60+ fps for all games on it`s library, let me choose all the best controllers for every game genre and not limit me to ONE, all those emulators, mods. Pure waste of money. Thanks for the laughs with dirty peasant lvl post.

 

[Chromata]

If the next round of CPUs and motherboards also support DDR5, then it looks like the coming generation is a good time to fully upgrade. You'll get PCIe4 on all platforms, DDR5, and new GPUs.

 

[archangelmorph]

3rd party developers uses PC tech in there games.
nobody uses sony's tech.

What's your point exactly?

PS5 will be hamstringed the xbox series x for console exclusives which will be a budget PC solution. Sony exclusives can do what they want. they can stream all the data they want not a single fuck was given that day on PC because the games are not hitting PC to start with and when they do they will be designed to work or basically not use the SSD of the PS5 other then just a bit of faster loading.

The same way as a PS5 is limited towards what a PC delivers when it comes to raw performance on hardware which funny enough always wins out on any technique invented.

I am still waiting on the death of dedicated GPU's because they simple can't compete anymore against apu direct access. Oh boy and did that age well with the
PS4. PS4 could barely run games at launch playable and absolutely crawled through mud the entire generation to the point they had to release a faster console for people to not straight up ditch the PS4 entirely at that point because of its dog shit performance.

Honestly consoles are barely keeping up with mid range 2 year old pc's at thsi point, and that won't change when every year new and faster hardware releases the PS5 will crawl further and further and further behind like it always does.

Which is fine by the way its a 500 dollar box so what can u expect from it.

No idea what point you're actually arguing against here..

You seem to have ignored the point I explicitly made, asked me "what point are you trying to make exactly?" when it was articulated clearly and then proceeded to beat up against some adolescent console wars strawman...

Fuck it, this forum is full of 12 year old babies who read everything through some highly polarised lens of "my platform dick is bigger than yours"...

I give deference to your superior opinion oh sacred wise one...

What the fuck do I know anyhow...

I only wrote console games professionally for the 1st 6 years of my 15 year technology career...

Enjoy your thread..

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

I'm glad that this thread by some does not appeal to common sense. Edgy takes and effort is an effort by itself.

This song and dance keeps on iterating at the start of every new generation (And some deterred will keep it up even long after).

1. New console/console games showcase incredible visuals courtesy of magic sauce
2. Complaints ensue: ''Consoles are a budget solution, low power x, will be hamstrung'' and so on. (Ofcourse they are a budget solution. They are 500 bucks tops else they don't sell. )
3. Rinse and repeat. New PC games get released that take advantage of exclusive features (Which will still occur even with current-gen having RT implementations: AMD RT ain't the same as Nvidia RT so accuracy improvements/additional features will always be elsewhere)
4. New generation appears, story of a generation repeats.

I never understood why PC gamers need to tell and prove console gamers that their rigs are better.
I never understood why console gamers need to tell and prove PC gamers that their consoles have exclusives/amazing visuals.

It is such a trite topic. Why try to convince someone whether you are a PC or console gamer of the opposite, when you could be playing, you know, games instead?

This would automatically erase any entertaining meta-complaining about having to work through backlogs, because you are actually playing games.

But that's just me. I play games from the stone age, whilst recognizing how much better things have become, and yet still be entirely satisfied by old and outdated shit.

All is relative. But perhaps i shouldn't cast a spell of nuance here knowing my magic skills.


1080p30 is crawled through mud? Your argument would fare better at the PS360 generation where titles would regularly dip below playable threshholds (Or held native 720p, for that matter). It was accepted still back then. CP2077 on PS4/XBO actually harbors back to that kind of performance and its now universally panned. Why? Because last-gen at the very least brought a far more stable experience to the table, even with anemic netbook Jaguar cores.


It obviously isn't fine, or you wouldn't be making a post dunking so dastardly on current-gen consoles in general. Perhaps you are expecting something more from a 500 dollar box? Who is to say.

You gotta realize, that's so many warriors on this site that have been peddling the idea that ps5 is much more superior to the 3090 because of TLOU2 animations, or demon souls small corridors, or the hypothetical ssd speeds. You got ppl like geordie and thelastparagraph saying PC architecture is years behind ps5, etc. PC owners do not need to explicitly state that their hardware is better, if the console warriors, simply understand their place in the gaming atmosphere. Subsidized hardware will never achieve the same that dedicated hardware can. Nothing against consoles, but there's a reason why they are so affordable *UP FRONT*.

 

[Redneckerz]

You gotta realize, that's so many warriors on this site that have been peddling the idea that ps5 is much more superior to the 3090 because of TLOU2 animations, or demon souls small corridors, or the hypothetical ssd speeds. You got ppl like geordie and thelastparagraph saying PC architecture is years behind ps5, etc. PC owners do not need to explicitly state that their hardware is better, if the console warriors, simply understand their place in the gaming atmosphere. Subsidized hardware will never achieve the same that dedicated hardware can. Nothing against consoles, but there's a reason why they are so adorable *UP FRONT*.

You aren't helping here, but rather, proving the point, just the other way around.

This need to tell others where their place is regardless whether you are PC or console gamer, it clearly brings enjoyment, or people wouldn't be doing it.

 

[Rikkori]

As soon as you need to invalidate and load in new clusters of data into your working set, your immediately disk I/O bound assuming you don't have more VRAM to spare.

Right, IO bound and I've already laid out a whole bunch of examples in which you can have IO that's magnitudes faster than the PS5 IO at its best. Not to mention - of course we'll have vram to spare (and ram as well! remember that's also magnitudes faster than SSD -> VRAM), have you not seen the RDNA 2 cards? And that's just at console launch, never mind 2 years from now or later (when next-gen games might actually appear)!

My main issue with what you're saying is that you seem to ignore/sideline the software as playing the major role rather than the hardware. Plus I don't know why you picked UE5 as an example since from the interview we have with the guy over at DF the major issue for scaling seems to be compute and not the SSD speed. So that goes against what you're trying to argue for.

Right now this is a lot of theory, but from practice we've seen a few PS5 exclusives so far and none of them have in any way appeared to be relying on SSD in order to do something we have never seen before on PC. To the contrary, for Demon's Souls it looks like it'd be quite at home with many more tflops where the tessellation could properly flex its legs and the res could stay at a nice 4K 60, not to mention the draw distances. And that's not even an open world! On the flip side every single other game that's on PC looks better on a top-end rig than it does on the PS5. Just straight up.

So I eagerly await for these PC-defying games that will show up on PS5 and won't be matched on PC, so far I haven't seen it.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

You aren't helping here, but rather, proving the point, just the other way around.

This need to tell others where their place is regardless whether you are PC or console gamer, it clearly brings enjoyment, or people wouldn't be doing it.

Which is why people need to know their place. PC gamers usually aren't the boastful, arrogant posters, shitting on console players. That only happens when you have months and months of console warriors, shitting up the threads, calling out PC gamers, and making outlandish claims. Look at the unreal engine 5 thread. It's a prime example of delusional console warriors, and how they view a tech demo, then create a million and one threads about how far behind PC architecture, etc. They were even saying how PC raytracing is behind ps5, when ps5 uses AMD, which is far behind Nvidia in this very aspect.

This is why some are becoming very vocal when they see comments like "having a 3090 is a waste of money, when there's games like demon souls, GoT, etc, that look better".

 

[Redneckerz]

Which is why people need to know their place.

Not really. You aren't getting the point i was making.

Which is okay.

 

[Kenpachii]

I'm glad that this thread by some does not appeal to common sense. Edgy takes and effort is an effort by itself.

This song and dance keeps on iterating at the start of every new generation (And some deterred will keep it up even long after).

1. New console/console games showcase incredible visuals courtesy of magic sauce
2. Complaints ensue: ''Consoles are a budget solution, low power x, will be hamstrung'' and so on. (Ofcourse they are a budget solution. They are 500 bucks tops else they don't sell. )
3. Rinse and repeat. New PC games get released that take advantage of exclusive features (Which will still occur even with current-gen having RT implementations: AMD RT ain't the same as Nvidia RT so accuracy improvements/additional features will always be elsewhere)
4. New generation appears, story of a generation repeats.

I never understood why PC gamers need to tell and prove console gamers that their rigs are better.
I never understood why console gamers need to tell and prove PC gamers that their consoles have exclusives/amazing visuals.

It is such a trite topic. Why try to convince someone whether you are a PC or console gamer of the opposite, when you could be playing, you know, games instead?

This would automatically erase any entertaining meta-complaining about having to work through backlogs, because you are actually playing games.

But that's just me. I play games from the stone age, whilst recognizing how much better things have become, and yet still be entirely satisfied by old and outdated shit.

All is relative. But perhaps i shouldn't cast a spell of nuance here knowing my magic skills.


1080p30 is crawled through mud? Your argument would fare better at the PS360 generation where titles would regularly dip below playable threshholds (Or held native 720p, for that matter). It was accepted still back then. CP2077 on PS4/XBO actually harbors back to that kind of performance and its now universally panned. Why? Because last-gen at the very least brought a far more stable experience to the table, even with anemic netbook Jaguar cores.


It obviously isn't fine, or you wouldn't be making a post dunking so dastardly on current-gen consoles in general. Perhaps you are expecting something more from a 500 dollar box? Who is to say.

I explain to him how the world works. U can't deal with it's your problem.

Yes sub 1080p and sub 30 fps at the start mid and end of the PS4 generation is crawling through mud to stay relevant. Which was so bad they had to refresh the console just 3 years later to stay relevant.

“It suggested that there’s a dip mid-console lifecycle where the players who want the very best graphical experience will start to migrate to PC, because that’s obviously where it’s to be had,” House admitted. “We wanted to keep those people within our eco-system by giving them the very best and very highest [performance quality]. So the net result of those thoughts was PlayStation 4 Pro — and, by and large, a graphical approach to game improvement.”

Sony probably makes most of its money from the 30% tax they have on there shop from 3rd party developers. This is a massive problem.

I use the PS4 as example because its pretty much a repeat of the same bullshit we saw in that period of time hence why i state APU PS4 as example.

it is fine because i state that its fine. I get tired of people trying to spin shit i don't say or twist it in order to actually have a point.

No idea what point you're actually arguing against here..

You seem to have ignored the point I explicitly made, asked me "what point are you trying to make exactly?" when it was articulated clearly and then proceeded to beat up against some adolescent console wars strawman...

Fuck it, this forum is full of 12 year old babies who read everything through some highly polarised lens of "my platform dick is bigger than yours"...

I give deference to your superior opinion oh sacred wise one...

What the fuck do I know anyhow...

I only wrote console games professionally for the 1st 6 years of my 15 year technology career...

Enjoy your thread..

Even while u rage like a little kid i will tell you what triggers me about your reaction and why pc threads are fucking awful to read because of endless amounts of delusional console warriors joining them that life in fairy tale worlds of bullshit.

My point is that every single PC thread gets shit up with a bunch of console warriors trying to throw there useless shitty logic that has be debunked for a 1000 times in every single PC thread over and over again because for some reason they need to validate there plastic box as a super machine because some shitters in the PS5 next gen thread and those "never not a good time to shit on tech youtubers" youtubers that run tech channels that can't even figure out what basic shit like tflops means told them so.

It's laughable how utterly retarded those people are. And they are so fast offended by the reality that surrounds them that even outlets censure there criticism about a product because they will be dumpstered on by those retards that have no clue how the world spins because they heard somebody say something. Go watch any 3000 series ryzen review that put the cpu as best performance because they did a cinebench test. a year later even AMD dumpsters there own cpud as being far inferior when there next product lines up. See how that works.

Whole kraken / streaming etc are all stuff that is already been covered endlessly and its a repeat of the same misinformation endlessly because some people simple can't deal with the reality.

Example, the amount of times i had to tell people that compression would never be done on the CPU but on the GPU on PC even while cerny and all there warriors specifically stated it competes with 10 zen 2 cores so it must be only cpu until io rtx got announced was just mind boggling. It's the same stupidly over and over again. Because people don't know what they are talking about and go with useless information that means nothing because cerny probably knows more then some random guy on a forum right? yea he knows indeed more and yes he knows exactly what's up, his fanbase however? not really and funny enough cerny exactly knows what they want to hear. They are getting played like a fiddle hence my APU example. Also let me not even start about that EU5 demo, but if you wanna know more about it scroll through my posts from half a year ago u would probably find it somewhere i can't be bothered to explain it again.

Anyway the reality is simple. PC utterly decimates consoles today, tommorow and the next day on every segment for the simple reality that there hardware isn't fixed. Nothing the PS5 does the PC can't do better whenever a game hits that actually needs it on PC. it's all at the end software mostly and even if it needs hardware fine tuning it will be done and released and done we are. Nothing sony showcased or anybody showcased could not be done on PC better and more efficient because it has a lot more hardware to work with than consoles every will have. the GPU performance and memory it has are the real weak points at the end of the day no matter what people say, it will be instantly dumpstered the momemt the PS6 gets announced but until then its all god tier hardware.

The whole notion of traditinoal hardware isn't important anymore or not as much as last generation because we can stream in more data in the game now with a SSD is the dumpest shit i ever read on this forum in my life. Its the same fucking logic people use with APU's back in the PS4 area. I told them that box wasn't going to age well because the CPU was utterly dog shit when it released and the gpu is simple to slow and even sony themselves agree with that a few years later, but fanboys naa, until they can shift to the next hardware piece that is the hot take suddenly the older one is a pile of shit over night that they endlessly defended before.

it's the same story with amd fans, with nvidia fans with any fans etc. U can't say anything meaningful or some moron is offended and when the next product comes out they shit talk the old piece of hardware in the same way that they fought against for years because fucking logic man.

I am against bullshit against any platform and will shit on PC users / console users / amd users / nvidia users all day long when they start shouting bullshit.

Anyway i am out, gotta do some shit.

 

[KungFucius]

Who cares now about future GPU rumors? There will be a next gen GPU in 18-24 months. It will be a pain in the ass to get and should be skipped by 30 series owners to preserve sanity, though they might want to jump in on the Super update if they can't help themselves. There will also be another new GPU 18-24 months after than. This launch will be horrible, it will be like the 3080 launch was to the 1080 launch compared to the 3080 launch. Nvidia will also take a play from AMD and let their AIB partners price gouge the fuck out of consumers, especially Gigabyte. Mid range 5080s non FE will go for $1300 compared to a $1000 FE which will be just 100 more than the 4080 was at launch. Newegg will bundle each card with a shitty PSU and some RAM that you don't have a use for and a tiny fraction of cards will be scalped yet whiners will declare that lack of availability is 100% caused by the 5% of cards that get scalped and shitty tech journalists will 'confirm' that notion by posting unsubstantiated similar claims without putting in a lick of effort to check the available data to see it their feelings are right.

 

[Ascend]

This seems to be the true doubling of Turing. That's quite the leap. Hopefully, the price does not take such a leap.

A few more notes based on the discussions going on in here...;

1)
Comparing the price of a graphics card to a console to somehow say that you're better off on PC is stupid. You cannot buy a graphics card and run games on it out of the box. You need the motherboard, the RAM, the CPU, the HDD/SSD, the case, the OS... You would have to get all that for the same price as the console, and get a superior experience, to claim that it's actually better value. The truth is that the PC is inevitably going to be more expensive hardware-wise. Consoles are inevitably better value up front and generally do not have the hassle of PCs.
That being said, in the long run, the gaming PC might be a better investment, because you can use it for more than just gaming, and games on PC are cheaper and more often on sale. You pay more for a PC, but get more flexibility, at the cost of ease of use.
There is no superior choice for everyone. Some things go beyond hardware and visuals. Especially now, where the consoles are focusing more on 60 fps, the gameplay aspect between PCs and consoles are being diminished. And someone with kids is better off with a console for example, because PCs are pretty much less social than consoles in the same house.
Don't let the fanatics tell you what is better for you.

2)
"Objectively looking better" is a meaningless statement. That would be like saying that red is objectively better than green. Something "looking better" is an aesthetic statement, and that inevitably prevents it from being objective.
Something might be technically superior or technically more advanced, but that does not automatically means that it looks better. The prime example here is ray tracing. It is technically more advanced, it is technically superior and more accurate, yet most people can't tell the difference in-game unless they go look for it and zooming in. It's the exact thing that DLSS takes advantage of. Technically speaking, a higher resolution is going to be more advanced than a lower one. But DLSS lowers the resolution, and eliminates what is the most distracting visually with AI, where stuff like shimmering and jaggies become pretty much invisible. It is a trade off, having it be technically inferior, but aesthetically more pleasing for many people.
If we take games as examples... Ashes of the Singularity is one of the most technically advanced games out there. But no one really cares for its graphics.
The majority of games on the X360 were technically superior to their PS3 equivalents, yet many find the graphics of PS3 games to look a lot better than many X360 games.
And so on.

Don't be manipulated by good sounding statements. Progress in hardware is good. But consider if you really need the best, or whether you're irrationally following a hype train.

 

[smbu2000]

Good luck, even a Voodoo FX from 20 years ago probably goes for £900 on eBay.

Voodoo FX? Do you mean a Voodoo card from 3dfx?
I'd imagine the rare unreleased Voodoo5 6000 might go for a very high price. Their last official release Voodoo5 5500 is also still fairly pricey. After that prices come down fairly quickly though.

My retro PC has 2 x 12MB Voodoo2 cards in SLI. (Although I do have a Voodoo5 5500 and some Voodoo3 cards.)

 

[kraspkibble]

64TF?!?!?

but i thought consoles were now basically just PCs? /s

9-12TF really doesn't seem like much now lol. not hating on them cause that'd be an upgrade over my current GPU (RTX 2080) in some ways.

i don't know if i should try get a 3080 Ti when they come out and settle for a measly 34TF or just wait for these monsters.

 

[Zathalus]

Quick question, when have detailed GPU leaks for products that are almost 2 years away ever been accurate? Not saying this can not be true, but come on.