alucard0712_rus
Gold Member
It's absolutely amazing but why do you need such power in a phone? Maybe for VR or some other things but not for a fucking android phone.
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Qualcomm Unveils Snapdragon X Elite CPU PC Benchmarks: Oryon Core Faster & Efficient Than Intel 13th Gen & Apple M2 Max, GPU Faster Than AMD RDNA 3
- Thread starter tusharngf
- Start date
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
Dude read the first sentence of OP
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Apple switched its entire product line from Intel to Apple Silicon so developers were forced to switch over too. I suspect that every new application now runs natively on an M1/M2/M3 chip. But where's the incentive for Windows developers to release ARM versions when there are hardly any people using the platform?
It's a huge effort to make Windows on ARM a success when the benefits of switching are negligible. When you buy an Intel/AMD PC/laptop you know it's going to compatible with every application/game and hardware you ever wanted to use, with ARM it's always going to be a question mark. How much cheaper and more energy efficient does an ARM laptop have to be to outweigh the negatives?
winjer
Gold Member
This is for laptops and NUC style PCs.
alucard0712_rus
Gold Member
Is it x64 compatible?
winjer
Gold Member
Yes, it's a 64bit CPU.
ARM ended 32 bit support now, with their Cortex A-Series.
Sethbacca
Member
Apple popularized it to an extent, but tech sites have been talking about the coming of ARM for at least a decade now. I doubt dying quickly in the cards since this is really still in the early stages of ramping up.
Trogdor1123
Gold Member
It has to be a when more than an if I’d think.
mrMUR_96
Member
This is only for laptops, power budget is way too high for mobile. New mobile chip announced is the snapdragon 8 gen 3.
the next battle for mobile is local AI assistant, so phones will become more powerful from now on, specially in neural cores and memory bandwidth/capacity.
LordOfChaos
Member
Windows on ARM has had x86 emulation for a while, and added x86-64 as well
Microsoft Adds 64-bit x86 Emulation to Windows on ARM
Microsoft announced today that the expected support for 64-bit x86 emulation on Windows on ARM devices has arrived, provided you are running Build 21277. You'll need to be part of Microsoft's Windows Insider program to test the build.
www.extremetech.com
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Who gives a shit about reading
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
I hope the arm cpus are as modular as x86, this move makes me worry they'll take away the diy aspect from pc gaming
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HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
Apple already demonstrated than you can write an extremely efficient translation layer for x86->arm. I don't think this will be a problem.
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Fake
Member
Will be as soon as you start to emulate emulation.
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
They might need something different for 360 / OG Xbox, indeed. MS has some of the worlds best developers. If they really wanted it, I'm sure they could do it.
MasterCornholio
Member
I'll be looking forward to the benchmarks. This should be interesting.
systemr123
Member
RDNA 3 is an architecture and has nothing to do with Tflops. Power and architecture are 2 completely different things. Ideally you want the best of both worlds of course
Fake
Member
The cost is the main key. Using emulation over emulation add too many layers already.
mitchman
Gold Member
The Apple M-chips have special instructions and additional support logic to speed up emulation of x86 code. I've not seen any of that in non-Apple ARM chips.
They have had ARM support for Windows for years with the compilers to support it. Finding hardware that can be used to actually test ARM on Windows is more of a challenge, not to mention finding users actually using it.
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mitchman
Gold Member
Eh, article clearly says it's for PC. Even the title says it.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
1) Yeah true, but it can't be that complex, because anything remotely x86 has to come from either AMD or Intel and it cannot be licenced
2) Sure, however you can't compile any code, you have to write it for ARM, that's the difference, besides many libraries are distributed as a binary file, not code, which can be compiled to to ARM
All in all there are challenges, to overcome, besides it is harder if you don't control the whole ecosystem like Apple does
Finally, some new players entering the market. The x86 market has been stagnant in terms of innovation pas few years but the biggest news is new players entering the gpu market. Amd has literally thrown in the tower in the gpu market and it cant compete and it isnt really even trying to anymore they live off scraps in the nvidia dominated market, we should pray intel and new entrants like these deliver some actual competition because the state of the gpu market is just pathetic for consumers.
I honestly wouldnt be surprised if competitors catch amd with their pants down in the gpu market considering intel beat their gpus in terms of rt and ml with their first attempt at an infant architecture.
That being said numbers in pr events should always be taken with a grain of salt, but I wish them the best of luck.
I honestly wouldnt be surprised if competitors catch amd with their pants down in the gpu market considering intel beat their gpus in terms of rt and ml with their first attempt at an infant architecture.
That being said numbers in pr events should always be taken with a grain of salt, but I wish them the best of luck.
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CobraAB
Member
Qualcomm bought a company started by ex-Apple chip engineers. Gee, imagine that!
Crayon
Member
You could use dxvk with wine before, too. But then valve made it automagic. A few vocal critics cried about linux on steam deck when it was announced but once it was out, nobody cared. They didn't care because they hardly noticed the downsides, which would be a few games not working and having to use fos alternatives to non-steam launchers. Meanwhile the upside they noticed a lot, that being an os better tailored for a gaming device.
Unknown Soldier
Member
129 million Nintendo Switch don't exist?
Unknown Soldier
Member
I actually don't know what you meant. Nintendo Switch isn't a console?
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Because it's an absurd and ignorant claim, to begin with. RDNA 3 is an architecture, not a chip. So claiming it to be faster than RDNA3 would have to be demonstrated by showing a performance per watt comparison against an RDNA 3 chip.
Kazekage1981
Member
I'm glad Qualcomm and NVIDIA have joined the PC-CPU competition. You know what that means?
-More entry level gaming PC's (APU's sort of speaking)
-Hoping for better camera's for laptops (similar quality to Pro level mobile phones)
As for as ARM architecture and Windows for ARM:
-Windows ARM ran great on the M1 processor, so its reasonable to assume it will run great on the new snap dragon processor and upcoming NVIDIA and AMD ARM based CPU-GPU's.
-MSFT will have to put more resources in polishing Windows ARM, and i think they definitely will.
-Emulation is not the way to go, it's just something temporary, MSFT will make developer tools necessary to convert x86 to ARM for both apps and games to run natively (there will be tremendous amount of pressure towards MSFT to do so from NVIDIA, AMD and Qualcomm because they don't want their hardware underutilized and software-games running wonky and slow)
-Wait for MS build which usually happens May of each year. Big focus will be on AI, and Visual Studio to make apps/games run universally on Xbox, ARM, x86
-More slim but power packed form factors such as foldable, tablets, tri-folds.
-5G and Wifi7: strong emphasis on mobile gaming
-could replace mobile phones: I'm glad Windows Mobile died (even though I liked Windows Phones), because now you can have a from factor with the power of desktop/laptop, with a full desktop/laptop OS, plus mobile connectivity (can make phone calls etc). The Windows ARM will just need an optional UI to make phone calls (im not talking about shitty METRO UI from Windows 8). Thats what I always wanted and my wish came through. I personally dont like iphone or android, I can finally have a full windows eco system with everything synchronized.
-I wonder if Intel will make ARM based CPU/GPU?
-There are licensing fees for using ARM, so will RISC-V be gaining momentum soon since its open source?
-More entry level gaming PC's (APU's sort of speaking)
-Hoping for better camera's for laptops (similar quality to Pro level mobile phones)
As for as ARM architecture and Windows for ARM:
-Windows ARM ran great on the M1 processor, so its reasonable to assume it will run great on the new snap dragon processor and upcoming NVIDIA and AMD ARM based CPU-GPU's.
-MSFT will have to put more resources in polishing Windows ARM, and i think they definitely will.
-Emulation is not the way to go, it's just something temporary, MSFT will make developer tools necessary to convert x86 to ARM for both apps and games to run natively (there will be tremendous amount of pressure towards MSFT to do so from NVIDIA, AMD and Qualcomm because they don't want their hardware underutilized and software-games running wonky and slow)
-Wait for MS build which usually happens May of each year. Big focus will be on AI, and Visual Studio to make apps/games run universally on Xbox, ARM, x86
-More slim but power packed form factors such as foldable, tablets, tri-folds.
-5G and Wifi7: strong emphasis on mobile gaming
-could replace mobile phones: I'm glad Windows Mobile died (even though I liked Windows Phones), because now you can have a from factor with the power of desktop/laptop, with a full desktop/laptop OS, plus mobile connectivity (can make phone calls etc). The Windows ARM will just need an optional UI to make phone calls (im not talking about shitty METRO UI from Windows 8). Thats what I always wanted and my wish came through. I personally dont like iphone or android, I can finally have a full windows eco system with everything synchronized.
-I wonder if Intel will make ARM based CPU/GPU?
-There are licensing fees for using ARM, so will RISC-V be gaining momentum soon since its open source?
mitchman
Gold Member
You write the code in any of the portable languages, most common being C++. Then you just cross compile it to the architecture you want. Heck, you can cross compile it on Linux and target Windows x86 or ARM easily if you want, using LLVM aka clang or similar.
cartman414
Member
Could be interesting. But AFAIK the reason Apple M-series chips are so performant is not so much the ARM CPU but the conglomeration of specialized chips and transistor/cache arrangement on what is a huge SoC. Granted, a still very power-efficient one.
Also, x86-64 has a lot of instructions ARM doesn't, and from what I gather, while there's a lot of nonsense in the former, what it has would require the latter to go through more instructions to replicate. That may have changed somewhat for all I know.
Also, Intel has yet to really push out its chiplet strategy. (Not that I'm expecting it to compete directly with Apple and other ARM based macro SoC solutions, but we'll see.) And just in case they decide to cut all that legacy baggage, they have x86-S (S for simple), a pure 64-bit instruction set.
Also, x86-64 has a lot of instructions ARM doesn't, and from what I gather, while there's a lot of nonsense in the former, what it has would require the latter to go through more instructions to replicate. That may have changed somewhat for all I know.
Also, Intel has yet to really push out its chiplet strategy. (Not that I'm expecting it to compete directly with Apple and other ARM based macro SoC solutions, but we'll see.) And just in case they decide to cut all that legacy baggage, they have x86-S (S for simple), a pure 64-bit instruction set.
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peish
Member
Apple has lost all the brains to nuvia and Qualcomm bought over this dissected brains.
We can see M2 and A17pro are no longer the outright leaders.
even on 3nm A17pro is inefficient. Qualcommn made leaps and bounds on the same 4nm
It is over for Apple, selling my stockholdings
ChuckeRearmed
Member
Microsoft will 100% experiment with probably something like Proton but for ARM at least. Windows need close 100% BC as one of the strongest points (up to DOS). As far as I recall, Windows for ARM did not succeed due to BC.
One way or another, apps will need to support ARM soon.
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Windows on ARM has had x86 emulation for a while, and added x86-64 as well
Microsoft Adds 64-bit x86 Emulation to Windows on ARM
Microsoft announced today that the expected support for 64-bit x86 emulation on Windows on ARM devices has arrived, provided you are running Build 21277. You'll need to be part of Microsoft's Windows Insider program to test the build.
Yep. The only read hurdle has been the hardware. The upclocked mobile phone SoCs Qualcomm has been providing havent had the juice to do justice to desktop workloads.
That changes next year, fingers crossed
Nuvia/Qualcomm didn’t just slap on an ARM Cortex reference design and call it a day…
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winjer
Gold Member
SiFive, one of the biggest companies in the Risc-V camp, just fired most of it's staff.
This might be an indication that Risc-V is not gaining momentum in the market.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Yes, so what I meant is that many libraries or hell most of them aren't compatible with Win ARM64. If you would have thsoe libraries given to you with cpp/h files, that would obviously would be less of an issue, however open-source is fine, but MS don't really like that.
Also I hope that sooner or later they will introduce some competent package manager
mitchman
Gold Member
All the standard libraries on Windows also support ARM. STL is not an issue at all as it's always in source form. I assume you're talking about some third party DLLs in binary-only form, but those are not very common shouldn't influence this at all.
vcpkg already exists and it's awesome. Microsoft open source project, used everywhere and it supports linux, macOS and Windows.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Time move fast then, will take a look at it
LordOfChaos
Member
It appears with SD8 Gen 3 already Apple has lost the multicore lead, the GPU lead, and the single core lead hasn't been smaller in a decade, plus with worse thermal dissipation in the chassis. Unless A18 and M3 really bring the goods they could well be caught by the X Elite.
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smbu2000
Member
Interesting, but they are certainly selective with their benchmarks. E.g. Focusing on single thread and then claiming a 30% power advantage over M2 Max when there really isn’t much difference in single threaded performance between the M2/M2 Pro/M2 Max since the difference between them are numbers of cpu cores (multi-core) or the Max having the same cpu cores as the Pro but twice the gpu power which does nothing for cpu performance (only graphics performance) but does increase power usage. M2 Max versions of laptops have slightly worse battery life compared to M2 Pro.
Same with the intel/AMD chips. Using the cpus with the most processor cores (increasing power usage/better multi thread scores) and then showing only single threaded scores.
Best to wait for actual reviews when these chips actually release in laptops.
Same with the intel/AMD chips. Using the cpus with the most processor cores (increasing power usage/better multi thread scores) and then showing only single threaded scores.
Best to wait for actual reviews when these chips actually release in laptops.
Dural
Member
The single threaded performance is mind blowing, all the rumors and leaks from before the announcement were that the single threaded performance was way behind the M2 but would win in multi threaded due to more cores than the M2. I'm shocked by this performance and can't wait! Hopefully it's not only going in super high end devices that cost $2000+.
They fall flat when running native ARM software?
Obviously an integrated GPU will not be as fast as a dedicated GPU. But I think ARM chips still support discrete GPUs. So that shouldn't be an issue.