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[GHG]

If a game is dynamic 4K on the 12TF machine.
Why would you think the same game would be 1440p on the 4TF machine?

I think some critical thinking might need to be applied here.

Yes the marketing says 1440p up to 120fps.
Will there be titles that meet that...sure, will there be titles the miss that....sure.

The PS5 has been said to have instant loading(cant remember the exact wording).......when people sit and say ohh man 3 seconds isnt an instant dont you think thats stupid?

Use the same critical thinking when the console is said to be 1440p up to 120fps to understand that is the upper bound MS is expecting.....not the baseline.

You are far too smart not to understand that, im not sure what your post was trying to achieve.

~Quarter the power for ~quarter the resolution.

I don't have any lofty expectations for this box, never did.

I'm just correcting the fallacy that it was always designed to be and said to be a 1080p box. It's simply not true.

All of the discussions that were had at the time of the consoles reveal were debates around whether or not the console would achieve it's target of 1440p/60fps. We even had some people talking nonsense about how the series S is better suited to being a high framerate console than the X is because of its lower resolution target. Unfortunately, it's not that simple.

by your logic SeriesX and PS5 are also a fail of a console, since they were built to run 4k/60-120fps but run Watch dogs below 4k and at 30fps

They are. I've always said that people expecting more than native 4k @ 30fps from hardware that (at best) trades blows with the 2080ti are going to be disappointed.

 

[Dampf]

Sorry to burst your bubble here, but there is a thing called PC, where those features are nothing new and have already proven to not do much. Barely 2digit percentage gains in optimal cases.

AI would be nice, but I´m not getting my hopes up here. Shiny visuals just sell better.
And physics is, contrary to common belief, a gpu task. The CPU is only good for "lower" object count physics. Everything with higher object counts, or particle systems is usually done by the GPU.


If by fine you mean being a major dragstone, then yes.

No PC games use mesh shaders or sampler feedback yet. Only DXR 1.1 (Minecraft) and VRS (but only Tier 1 which sucks)

 

[Dibils2k]

They are. I've always said that people expecting more than native 4k @ 30fps from hardware that (at best) trades blows with the 2080ti are going to be disappointed.

ok then fair enough

i guess i just dont agree with your logic

 

[Armorian]

The 1080p box runs games at 1080p?

You dont say?

Dynamic 1080p like PS4 so it probably is lower than that most of the time.

 

[Jon Neu]

We even had some people talking nonsense about how the series S is better suited to being a high framerate console than the X is because of its lower resolution target. Unfortunately, it's not that simple.

That's a possibility that can happen in some games, again, just like how 1440p it's a possibility, not a lock for every game.

Are you really on NeoGaf? Because you seem to not understand how this works at all.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

No PC games use mesh shaders or sampler feedback yet. Only DXR 1.1 (Minecraft) and VRS (but only Tier 1 which sucks)

You should really look into what mesh shading actually means......read up on tesselation techniques and mesh culling and you`ll see what i mean. It theoretically offers up new possibilities, finer granularity etc.. but your touted efficiency numbers are just absolutely unrealistic.....
And VRS...well same category.
Nice and all, but no miracle workers, nothing ever is.

Gonna repeat myself again:

there is no secret sauce....what you see is what you get.

 

[Connxtion]

The segments this gen are so pointless... ps5 digital and xbox S S should absolutely not exist. It's a stupid market segregation

I would normally agree, but my two daughters both have XB1s and I have a XB1X so having to buy 3 XSX is out of the question. They don’t care for 4K as there TVs are 1080p only, so XSS is perfect for them and saves me £449.99.

Me I need the top of the line version even bought myself a new TV (LG CX) just for nextgen. But am paying for it all so am entitled to splash out on myself. (Kids can lump it)

 

[Dibils2k]

official photo. reality is that you are spreading FUD. there is no UP to 1440p. it is 1440p. so they are lying and you are spinning.

yes, sony fanboys loosing against what exactly? delusional people? fud?

you remember Sony advertising the PS4 Pro as 4k??

this is just marketing, they will give you the best case scenario for that console. all thats really saying is... dont expect 4k games

 

[ZywyPL]

by your logic SeriesX and PS5 are also a fail of a console, since they were built to run 4k/60-120fps but run Watch dogs below 4k and at 30fps

I honestly think the consoles blew up too much of their budget on the SSDs and everything surrounding them instead of the actual computing power, if they'd went with ordinary >1GB/s M.2 drives instead no one would bat an eye, as it would've been such a huuuge upgrade already from a laptop HDD, and using like 14-16TF GPUs instead that would in fact allow for native 4K and 60FPS, with series S being at least a 6TF machine like 1X, I think way more people would be more happy this way. But it is what it is, unfortunately.

 

[Jon Neu]

and using like 14-16TF GPUs instead that would in fact allow for native 4K

The point is: why waste so much resources in native 4K when you can use an upscaling technique that is going to give you a similar quality and at the same time free more resources?

 

[GHG]

PS5 and the Series X are marketed as 8K consoles, are you going to make all this silly fuss when most games don't reach even native 4K?

We all knew the Series S it's a casual friendly console made to render the same games at lower resolutions, and that those resolutions were going to be normally in the 1080p. Acting like this is MS breaking some kind of promise so you can go jumping with your console wars fake ammo it's just you being obtuse, nothing else.

That's a possibility that can happen in some games, again, just like how 1440p it's a possibility, not a lock for every game.

Are you really on NeoGaf? Because you seem to not understand how this works at all.

1080p will be more common than 1440p. 30fps will be more common than 60/120fps. Games get more demanding over time and there comes a point where a drop in resolution has little to no benefit when certain bottlenecks arise.

I love how now we can disregard the PR whereas at the time of it's reveal those who dared to doubt the PR were told they are just FUD spreading fanboys.

I remember being told the Series S is a better fit for it's "purpose" than the Series X is. Lets see how that pans out.

 

[Ulysses 31]

by your logic SeriesX and PS5 are also a fail of a console, since they were built to run 4k/60-120fps but run Watch dogs below 4k and at 30fps

Looks even worse for PS5 with its 8K logo on the box.

 

[Gediminas]

you remember Sony advertising the PS4 Pro as 4k??

this is just marketing, they will give you the best case scenario for that console. all thats really saying is... dont expect 4k games

you are still spreading fud about that? Sony was advertising PS4 Pro as capable to show 4k if a game is 4k. the same as PS5 is with 8k, PS5 can show it if a game is 8k. there was just only one machine which was advertised as true 4k machine and that was xbox one x and that was a lie too. and was mocked for it a lot. the same way is SS.
so try harder next time.

 

[Warablo]

What the hell will it run on a Xbox One X? Why is the Series S less powerful than a One X?

 

[anothertech]

Dynamic? At 30?

Lolol

 

[LokusAbriss]

What the hell will it run on a Xbox One X? Why is the Series S less powerful than a One X?

Ray tracing on next gen versions. Look at the pc benchmarks. It tanks performance.

 

[Aceofspades]

i mean the game runs 30fps on the way more expensive SeriesX and PS5... so i dont get the point you are making with that

by your logic SeriesX and PS5 are also a fail of a console, since they were built to run 4k/60-120fps but run Watch dogs below 4k and at 30fps

Way more expensive? PS5 DE is $100 more only.

 

[Jon Neu]

I love how now we can disregard the PR whereas at the time of it's reveal those who dared to doubt the PR were told they are just FUD spreading fanboys.

The hell are you talking about? In the reveal we all said the console was going to have 900p/1080p/1440p or even 720p uspcaled games depending on the resolution of those games in the Series X and the proficiency/time/resources of the developer invested in doing the Series S version (weird how now Ubisoft is the best developer ever).

This is a console for casuals, ergo people who have Full HD tv's.

remember being told the Series S is a better fit for it's "purpose" than the Series X is. Lets see how that pans out.

And it is.

How it pans out depends on the success of the console and the time/budget devs put into it and the target resolution they want to reach, but specs don't lie.

Sony was advertising PS4 Pro as capable to show 4k if a game is 4k.

 

[ZywyPL]

The point is: why waste so much resources in native 4K when you can use an upscaling technique that is going to give you a similar quality and at the same time free more resources?

Because people don't spend hundreds-thousands of dollars on their TVs to watch soft/blurry mess. This way we can question why do we need XSX and PS5 at all if the Series S can just upscale the image all the way up to 4K and save us 200 bucks while doing so? The reconstruction algorithms surely got so much more sophisticated than the primitive upscalers from PS360 era, but it's still far from perfect, you can immediately tell whether the imagine on your TV runs on its native resolution or not, it really just comes down to that. If TVs in stores showed upscaled images most people would question whether they need/want one, what's the point, but all those high definition, high bitrate native 4K HDR demos is what sells those TVs, because that's how good it looks, and the same applies to games, once the image is crystal clear all the texture details pop up, and the games look simply stunning, we see it in marketing bullshots, we see it on PCs, but on consoles there's always something missing. Now I get it, it's a far better trade this way in order save the performance, but given how close those consoles will be from real 4K, like really this close, it's really a shame they aren't just a tiny bit more powerful.

 

[fermcr]

This is not surprising, Xbox Series S is essentially a 1080p console.
After reading some comments, I have to point out that a lot of people in Neogaf are forgetting most families DON'T HAVE 4K TV's at home. Xbox Series S will be perfectly fine for them.

 

[Grinchy]

Some people seriously thought there'd be a developer button to click on that just said "Play at same settings as X but 1440p."

 

[LokusAbriss]

Way more expensive? PS5 DE is $100 more only.

The PS5 DE is very hard to beat, when you want nextgen games and dont care about eco system or a disc drive.

 

[Jon Neu]

Because people don't spend hundreds-thousands of dollars on their TVs to watch soft/blurry mess. This way we can question why do we need XSX and PS5 at all if the Series S can just upscale the image all the way up to 4K and save us 200 bucks while doing so? The reconstruction algorithms surely got so much more sophisticated than the primitive upscalers from PS360 era, but it's still far from perfect, you can immediately tell whether the imagine on your TV runs on its native resolution or not, it really just comes down to that. If TVs in stores showed upscaled images most people would question whether they need/want one, what's the point, but all those high definition, high bitrate native 4K HDR demos is what sells those TVs, because that's how good it looks, and the same applies to games, once the image is crystal clear all the texture details pop up, and the games look simply stunning, we see it in marketing bullshots, we see it on PCs, but on consoles there's always something missing. Now I get it, it's a far better trade this way in order save the performance, but given how close those consoles will be from real 4K, like really this close, it's really a shame they aren't just a tiny bit more powerful.

If they were a tiny bit more powerful, those resources would still be used for other things instead of native resolution (like for example, RT).

Upscaling is getting better than ever and it's only going to get better. Consoles are about efficiency, so I don't expect much AAA next gen games to be native 4K (at best they are going to have a resolution mode).

Maybe if there is another mid gen refresh, but that's not certain.

 

[Dibils2k]

Way more expensive? PS5 DE is $100 more only.

oh so the Disk PS5 runs WD at 60fps then? no? so whats the point you are trying to make?

 

[ZywyPL]

If they were a tiny bit more powerful, those resources would still be used for other things instead of native resolution (like for example, RT).

But since RT cores are tied to CUs in RDNA2 GPUs, more TF would also mean more RT performance tho.

Upscaling is getting better than ever and it's only going to get better. Consoles are about efficiency, so I don't expect much AAA next gen games to be native 4K (at best they are going to have a resolution mode).

That's true, although forcing settings above PC's Ultra like we see with Gears 5 if the exact opposite of what I'd call "effective"... We will see, maybe DirectML in XSX will bring some next breakthrough in upscaling techniques comparable to what DLSS is doing for PCs, if not, then oh well, we will just have to get used to another generation full of upscaled/dynamic games.

 

[Riky]

It's a bad deal pound for pound.

The same games run better on the One X.

Microsoft are mugging people off with this console, no doubt they will be making a much bigger profit margin on it in comparison to the X. It's the reincarnation of the original Xbox One.

No ray tracing on X1X Watch Dogs, no 120hz mode o X1X Dirt 5 or Gears 5 or Halo MCC.

So Series S runs those games better than X1X which cost a lot more at launch, like £200 more.

 

[Orta]

Why don't some of you lot just shut up for Christ sake? You clearly have no intention of buying one and are bitching about it constantly. Ooooh, it'll hold back our precious PS5, no it fucking won't. Multi-format software will be designed first and foremost for the SX & PS5 in mind, as you all well know, and the SS will just have to do what it can with them. Do you honestly think Rockstar or Capcom are bothered if resolution or frame rates will suffer on what at best will be a second console aimed towards a casual market? You'll still get your 4k this and ray tracing that irrespective of the existance of "worst console ever made".

 

[Riky]

official photo. reality is that you are spreading FUD. there is no UP to 1440p. it is 1440p. so they are lying and you are spinning.

yes, sony fanboys loosing against what exactly? delusional people? fud?

PS5 and XSX boxes say 8k not up to 8K.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Basically, save a $100 ( PS5 digital) and lose 3/4 the resolution and more than half the storage.
And beyound that you get Craig instead of GOW.
But who am I to talk? At the end of the day, people are free to buy and play whatever the fuck they want.

 

[mrmeh]

Game with raytracing running on a £249 console.. Cant even buy a 2060 for that...

Not a GAF console which most on here don't seem to understand...

 

[GHG]

The hell are you talking about? In the reveal we all said the console was going to have 900p/1080p/1440p or even 720p uspcaled games depending on the resolution of those games in the Series X and the proficiency/time/resources of the developer invested in doing the Series S version (weird how now Ubisoft is the best developer ever).


specs don't lie.

720p? The bar gets lower all the time.

A new generation of consoles is meant to make things easier for developers, especially initially when they are dealing with games designed around older less powerful hardware, not make them jump through even more optimisation hoops. So now the new narrative is set:

• Even 720p is ok
• If a game doesn't run well on the Series S it's the developers fault

specs don't lie.

This we can agree on. You're in for a long generation if you're going to spend much of it attempting to defend and justify this console.

 

[Aceofspades]

oh so the Disk PS5 runs WD at 60fps then? no? so whats the point you are trying to make?

The point Im trying to make is simply countering your point of overinflating the value of XSS.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

Game with raytracing running on a £249 console.. Cant even buy a 2060 for that...

Not a GAF console which most on here don't seem to understand...

Hum... honestly, for it's price tag I wonder what some people thought it would be capable of? If it was something almost as strong as a PS5/SX they'd need only one console. But who am I kidding, the truth is that everyone here understands what the Series S actually is, many are just pretending not to understand so they can find something to create more FUD, just as they tried with SX temperatures some time ago. If there's an excuse for it, they're not gonna lose this opportunity.

Also, I see MUCH MORE value in the Series S compared to the PS5 Digital. But to each their own I guess.

 

[Javthusiast]

Meh whatever. I preordered a Series S as a cheap gamepass machine. Bite me Gaf. xD

 

[Dibils2k]

The point Im trying to make is simply countering your point of overinflating the value of XSS.

my point was that $500 consoles (PS5 and XSX) cant run the game at more than 30fps, so to have a dig at XSS for being 30fps is stupid

so you bringing up that a $400 version exists is irrelevant

PS5 DE is way better value than XSS but thats not the point

 

[kruis]

.

 

[heringer]

Basically, save a $100 ( PS5 digital) and lose 3/4 the resolution and more than half the storage.
And beyound that you get Craig instead of GOW.
But who am I to talk? At the end of the day, people are free to buy and play whatever the fuck they want.

Save $100?

Series S is going to be a Gamepass machine, so in reality you will save way more than $100.

PS5D is stealth the most expensive console of the bunch. You don't have Gamepass and you don't have the possibility of buying and selling used games. It's the worse value proposition this generation.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Honest question... is the Series S weaker than the One X? I thought it was as strong but aimed to perform at 1440p instead of 4k

Yes it's weaker in certain key aspects that's necessary for higher resolution output. It's strengths are it's CPU and an SSD to hold back next gen graphical greatness!

 

[Jon Neu]

720p? The bar gets lower all the time.

Want me to quote messages at the time of the reveal?

For someone who mentions the reveal all the time, you have little to no knowledge of what was being said back then.

And yes, 720p upscaled to 1080p it's perfectly possible.

A new generation of consoles is meant to make things easier for developers, especially initially when they are dealing with games designed around older less powerful hardware, not make them jump through even more optimisation hoops. So now the new narrative is set:

Thank you for your concern.

Adopt a poor developer that has to do extra work for the Series S now.

You're in for a long generation if you're going to spend much of it attempting to defend and justify this console.

Oh, I'm absolutely loving this generation.

It hasn't even started yet and Sony fanboys are already crying and bitching like there's no tomorrow.

If some day MS manages to be at top, I expect no less than suicides from some people.

 

[Grinchy]

Oh, I'm absolutely loving this generation.

It hasn't even started yet and Sony fanboys are already crying and bitching like there's no tomorrow.

If some day MS manages to be at top, I expect no less than suicides from some people.

Wow, I hope you are like 15 years old. Anything else would be worrying.

 

[Jon Neu]

Wow, I hope you are like 15 years old. Anything else would be worrying.

Some people seriously thought there'd be a developer button to click on that just said "Play at same settings as X but 1440p."

 

[iJudged]

This is expected. Exatcly what's it suppose to do. Whether u like or no, it will sell well

 

[ZywyPL]

Want me to quote messages at the time of the reveal?

For someone who mentions the reveal all the time, you have little to no knowledge of what was being said back then.

And yes, 720p upscaled to 1080p it's perfectly possible.

??? I think you misquoted me with someone else here.

 

[yurinka]

That's a blatant lie. Here's an actual capture from the official trailer:

They marketed it as a 1440p machine. Not only is it not achieving that here it isn't even achieving 1080p consistently.

It may achieve 1440p or 120fps in Tetris Effect. But for sure won't do it in highly demanding AAA games as should be a DMC running at 60fps with RT, or an open world with RT. In addition to remove RT and very likely other effects, they will need to highly decrease framerate and/or resolution.

It has 4TF and 10GB of RAM. People shouldn't expect its games to look like Series X games, but instead something more similar to XB1X or XB1S versions with some extra tweaks.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Yeah, I’m still convinced that the Series is weaker than the One X.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Save $100?

Series S is going to be a Gamepass machine, so in reality you will save way more than $100.

PS5D is stealth the most expensive console of the bunch. You don't have Gamepass and you don't have the possibility of buying and selling used games. It's the worse value proposition this generation.

Gamepass argument is very subjective. Not everyone who wants console want to subscribe to service that forces particular games on him. Besides, any casual entering the console space will be impressed by the graphics of the few games available o playstation collection than the entire game pass lineup.

I also don't believe that a person who wants a cheap console wants to spend $120+ per year. They will barely buy 1 $70 game ( if they don't wait for discount)

 

[MadchesterManc]

So the Series S is already down to dynamic 1080p at 30fps before the gen has even started. Not sure why people were expecting more of the Series S just because Microsoft said 1440p at up to 120fps, it was always going to underwhelm a little once RT is involved.

Somewhat glad I didn't pre-order any next gen machine so I get to enjoy GAF these next few months.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Yeah, I’m still convinced that the Series is weaker than the One X.

It's in theory more powerful but has to support next gen features in order to be called next gen console. Hence, it has to limit its resolution and FPS.

 

[acm2000]

i do hope mods clamp down on the drive by fanboy posts regarding the Series S, its a casual console for casual players, a second xbox for the kids room, where people only tend to have 1080p.

a low cost entry in to next gen, £250 + Game Pass for the casual users is a steal, it is NOT the competition for the PS5 so you fanboys can relax, we all know the PS5 has 2nd place all wrapped up for this gen its just how close MS can get that is the outlier.

 

[bad guy]

Woah! I'm pretty amazed if the XSS does raytracing. Did not expect that. Respect!

I'd rather have >30fps at 1080p with no raytracing though.