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Was Series S necessary for Microsoft?

Was Series S necessary for Xbox to succeed this gen?

  • No, MS could have sold just as many with just Series X

    Votes: 56 30.9%
  • Yes, a low cost option has provided a boost

    Votes: 109 60.2%
  • The advantage of Series S has yet to play out

    Votes: 15 8.3%
  • It could have but MS haven't delivered enough units

    Votes: 1 0.6%

  • Total voters
    181

Nubulax

Member
Considering the Series S is the throttle for MS console gaming, the more appropriate question is, "Was Series X necessary?"

Awkward Season 9 GIF by The Office
BINGO.....
The more this generation goes on... the more I think the S is the true next gen console microsoft wanted to release and the X was just there so they could claim some sort of power narrative. I would almost bet that the actual Majority( >50%) of Xbox series owners have an S as well. It would be very interesting to know the total split atm
 
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As an xbox player I was against it.
I thought they should have had a cheaper digital only Xbox Series X, but then if they wanted a lower specification sku it should have been a 6tflop one with 12gig RAM. Even if it was cheaper GDDR5 RAM, it would of been OK.

But they seemed to know better than me as it is selling well and the people that have it like it.
 

nush

Member
It's the smartest move Microsoft have accidentally made. There's no way they could have foreseen Covid and chip shortages.
 

Esca

Member
I believe so. MS was coming off a rough gen and trying to get people outside of their dedicated fanbase to drop $500 on a console is a hard sell.
 

DavidGzz

Member
I watch my daughter play the same games as I do on my X and see zero difference in frames or graphics. Maybe if they were side by side, I would. The same naysayers of the S will laugh at people who buy top of the line PCs with a 4090 for a slight res boost when they could have just gone with a 3080. This is no different, but they will tell you it's the worst thing about the gen.
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
I watch my daughter play the same games as I do on my X and see zero difference in frames or graphics. Maybe if they were side by side, I would. The same naysayers of the S will laugh at people who buy top of the line PCs with a 4090 for a slight res boost when they could have just gone with a 3080. This is no different, but they will tell you it's the worst thing about the gen.
I'd actually say that the same people hating on the S with the excuse of X and PS5 being powerful, actually can't admit all the boxes are low cost and low performance budget boxes, I think bragging about power doesn't belong to them, same for switch vs ps4/x one... PC is where power is and if price is an argument against it, it is in favor of the S too
 

sainraja

Member
I would have preferred a single SKU but at-least it's not like the X360 situation where you had deal with one without the hard drive as standard, something Sony was heavily criticized for with the PS2.
 

supernova8

Banned
Hard to tell if it was a good business choice without more financial details from Microsoft but based on this thread:


Time to profitability per device
We can probably say Microsoft is losing $100 on the Series S and losing $200 on the Series X (Spencer doesn't seem to have explicitly said that, but it would make sense).

Then if we assume (I'm not sure) Game Pass itself is profitable for Microsoft (it's all intertwined so it's probably hard to isolate it and say it is profitable by itself but whatever) then the question becomes how long does it take to turn around that initial per device loss and make that device/user a profit generator?

Then I think we get into considerations like the purchasing behavior of Series X owners vs Series S owners.
For example (these are generalized hypotheticals):

Typical Series S owner
Subscribe to Game Pass but won't buy any games outright.

Typical Series X owner
- subscribes to Game Pass
- buys an Elite controller (probably pretty high margin)
- buys other standalone titles (which nets Microsoft some publisher royalty income)

On balance, I could see it being that Microsoft will make the $200 back on Series X owners faster than the $100 back on Series S owners simply because they will buy more stuff.

Reducing BOM to make the device profitable outright
The other way to look at it would be to say if you have a console only losing $100 at the point of purchase, it's probably going to be easier to revise, re-design and lower cost of production for Series S to make it profitable (even if only slightly) quicker than it will be for the Series X (which may be losing $200).

Foot in the door
Plus, the notion of "getting your foot in the door" is really important in business. Stuff like getting people to physically sign up for accounts, enter their credit card information. Companies spend billions every year researching ways to get consumers to do that.

Ditching physical media
Finally, it's obvious that Microsoft wants to move toward a streaming-based service for Game Pass, so getting consumers used to the idea of buying a console without any physical media (disc etc) is sort of a first step in that direction. Once you get rid of physical games, you immediately lose some (not all) of the appeal (namely, for me, ability to trade/sell used), which helps to push people toward a monthly subscription service. Once you're paying for a monthly subscription service, you're probably more willing to try streaming especially if they improve the input lag and .... you're already paying for it anyway.

It's definitely only a matter of time before the issue of input lag is solved, and when that happens, I guess Xbox will be in the best position to take advantage of it. Heck, maybe they're waiting to release Keystone streaming-only Xbox thing.
 

PillsOff

Banned
Do they need cheap Next Gen offer during the period of crushing world economy n people having no money?

could be the best decision they ever made
 
Series S like SKU is mandatory at this point for me to consider getting into any platform holder ecosystem.

Sony better release a Series S version of PS5 (that runs ps4 versions of past games, while being compatible with future games).

Switch 2 also better have similar power and footprint.

No more ugly consoles or crazy docks with a handheld nestled in it in my house.
 

Markio128

Member
Tbh, you don’t even need a Series S to play the latest COD/Fifa/Fortnite, so no, I don’t think it is particularly useful at present, when you can just buy a PS4/Xbox One, even second hand, if it is a financial argument.

The fact that MS seem to be giving them away like confetti and that they are always in stock doesn’t help the argument really.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Yes, MS needed it and and so far it hasn't affected any games. Plus, it runs the Matrix demo at lower settings so I think everything will be fine.

If we see any evidence of it affecting the gen I will be the first to admit it was a bad idea, but so far it's brilliant and perfect for spare rooms or kids like my daughter. I find myself using it far more than I thought I would.

Looks awesome on her 1080p set.
 

CeeJay

Member
Enthusiast forum. The %1 of the people with the best of everything are not going to like a product that isn’t the most cutting edge.

Reality though is probably different.
So, the enthusiast buys the top-of-the-line product, why be triggered by a budget product existing that you have no intention of getting anyway? It gets even more nonsensical when some of those enthusiasts who dislike the Series S and insist they want the best experience whilst also choosing not to invest in a PC that can scale as high as their pocket allows. It just seems like there are all these arbitrary restrictions and caveats that people pin to this for no logical reason. It seems like the only possible valid reason to hate the Series S is the whole "holding back the games" argument which when looked at objectively doesn't really hold any water. It may have been a valid concern prior to the machines being released but with the knowledge we have now it should have melted away. As I mentioned, we have multiple tiers in near enough every other mass-market product you can think of with the full gamut from budget to enthusiast and nowhere else do we see this same resistance to the existence of a product.
 

Foilz

Banned
My neighbor bought his as a retro machine to use in his backyard with a projector when he has parties. It's a perfect little machine to move around emulates well
 

NahaNago

Member
It was necessary for Microsoft. It gave families the cheaper option and also lets Microsoft push more gamepass subscriptions. If Microsoft made games I was interested in I would have jumped on the series S these days.
 

CeeJay

Member
It’s not necessary at all and needlessly complicated next Gen development
Wrong!

Maybe in the Playstation eco-system this would be true where they are targeting one single hardware profile (and then porting to PC at a later date) but, as we are all well aware Xbox has no exclusives because they are also developed for and released on PC as well. How can you possibly argue your point when there are an infinite number of potential PC configurations for developers to target?
 
XSS was never "necessary", as Microsoft doesn't seem particularly concerned with how many Series units they sell--XSS or XSX. They're more concerned about an overall ecosystem that encompasses PC and to a lesser extent Xbox consoles. Their goal isn't to sell more Series units than Sony sells PS5s, it's to make playing on Xbox, be it on a Series or on the PC, to be the majority of gamers' first choice. For Microsoft, the battle against PlayStation and to a lesser extent Nintendo, isn't about hardware sales at all, but getting people to subscribe to their services over paying for games on rival platforms. They want the PS5 and Switch to be niche products. The main way they accomplish that goal is to deprive their competition of content while simultaneously driving the market to their services. The XSS exists for households that are unwilling or unable to game on PC and are unwilling or unable to afford an XSX.

The XSS isn't necessary, but it's one of Microsoft's long-term plays for market domination. Ultimately, it's success, or lack thereof, will determine whether or not they continue this aspect of their overall strategy come the tenth generation.
 
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SmokedMeat

Gamer™
It’s an inexpensive option, that also offers Game Pass.

Plus they’re $250 for Black Friday which is pretty damn cheap for a modern console, that plays the latest games.

I don’t think it was a bad move at all.
 

Ev1L AuRoN

Member
I believe it is an important product for a lot of gamers, it lowers the entry point even though I don't see the point, there are a lot of people that just want a cheap gaming machine, in my country specially the Series S is very popular, is probably the most sold console by the mere virtue of being available on stores since day one. To this day you can't enter a store and buy a PS5 or XSX, there are still waiting lists.
Series S is the only obtainable current-gen console for the majority of the gamers here in Brazil. And I believe in most of the world this is also the case. This is the most expensive gen ever around here.
For a simple comparison.
I bought a PS4 in 2014 for R$:1.399,00 (around US$:600,00 dolars in 2014 exchange rate)
The Series S cost anywhere between 1.899,00~2.399,00 (US$:354,75~448 of today's exchange rate) the series X and PS5 cost around R$:4.799,00~6.000,00 (US$:896,49~1120,85 today's exchange rate), that's too expensive even for the middle class.
Games went up from R$:199,00 to R$:350,00 (US$:37,17~65,38 of today's exchange rate), of course the main issue is the devaluation of our currency, but the salaries didn't increase nearly as much in those 8 years.

Average salary in Brazil in 2014 was R$:1.771,00 around US$:771,00.
2022 the salary rose to R$:2.713,00 around US$:506,33.
 

Edgelord79

Gold Member
So, the enthusiast buys the top-of-the-line product, why be triggered by a budget product existing that you have no intention of getting anyway? It gets even more nonsensical when some of those enthusiasts who dislike the Series S and insist they want the best experience whilst also choosing not to invest in a PC that can scale as high as their pocket allows. It just seems like there are all these arbitrary restrictions and caveats that people pin to this for no logical reason. It seems like the only possible valid reason to hate the Series S is the whole "holding back the games" argument which when looked at objectively doesn't really hold any water. It may have been a valid concern prior to the machines being released but with the knowledge we have now it should have melted away. As I mentioned, we have multiple tiers in near enough every other mass-market product you can think of with the full gamut from budget to enthusiast and nowhere else do we see this same resistance to the existence of a product.
Don’t know what to tell you. It’s the internet of things I guess.

The people you are referring to are likely not very worthwhile listening to anyway as they have an extremely skewed perspective as a whole.
 

CeeJay

Member
Don’t know what to tell you. It’s the internet of things I guess.

The people you are referring to are likely not very worthwhile listening to anyway as they have an extremely skewed perspective as a whole.
Yet I still come to GAF every day :lollipop_anguish:
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
From a development standpoint its definitely undesirable having to deliver multiple SKU's especially with any added complication that supporting Smart Delivery entails, but from a pure business strategy perspective it makes a good deal of sense if the end goal is a truly mass-market offering based around providing and monetizing digital services.

MS have a plan and they are executing on it. I guess time will tell because right now the mission-critical mobile segment isn't where they'd like it to be.

The key thing to understand is that Series S is cheap enough to bundle in with phone contracts and the like, so were Game Pass / Xcloud to also offer a substantial mobile library they have a really nice synergy thanks to network effects.
 
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