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News VGtech: Destiny 2 PS5 and Xbox Series X|S 60fps Frame Rate Test

Panajev2001a

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Riky Riky I'm only aware of VRR being used to eliminate tearing. What else does it do?

I don't know if you gave me that reaction because I was wrong about what VRR does.

Yeah, that is essentially the only thing it does: changes the framerate of the TV to match the console (holds the current frame and displays it until a new one comes in). The game still slows down and input lag still grows.

Also on OLED displays it appears to introduce some brightness and contrast flickering.
 

Riky

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Yeah, that is essentially the only thing it does: changes the framerate of the TV to match the console (holds the current frame and displays it until a new one comes in). The game still slows down and input lag still grows.

Also on OLED displays it appears to introduce some brightness and contrast flickering.

It also eliminates the judder that comes with tearing when your console output doesn't match your screen refresh, so it all looks nice and smooth.

Since most drops are very slight lasting milliseconds you will never notice any input lag.
 

Panajev2001a

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In that case, both XSX and PS5 are based on RDNA2 and will have similar features.

If a game uses RDNA2 features on XSX, it will also likely use next-gen RDNA2 features on PS5.

In the end, both consoles will continue to trade blows. PS5 will some, XSX will win others. There is no ~20-30% advantage. Both consoles perform similarly. Gamers should play wherever they want to play and whichever console has the best games, best experience, and offer the best value to them.
Yes, for third parties I do expect XSX to pull ahead in some scenarios and PS5 in others, but it will be first party games and few exceptions with big third parties that show off each console in the best possible light.

Still, parity or a small advantage resolution and/or framerate wise for XSX is still great news for PS5 designers as they were able to invest greatly in making the console easier to develop on and super fast I/O wise (as seen in their first party exclusives) while having the right customisations in the GPU and a good clocking strategy to avoid noisy consoles, cool the machine affordably, and make the 2 TFLOPS / 18% gap narrower and narrower in practice.
 

Panajev2001a

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It also eliminates the judder that comes with tearing when your console output doesn't match your screen refresh, so it all looks nice and smooth.

Since most drops are very slight lasting milliseconds you will never notice any input lag.
It smooths out the judder yes (but not because of the removal of tearing, but because the TV is not repeating frames at an uneven pace: think Blu-Ray playback at 24Hz on TV’s doing 3:2 pull down and TV’s able to display 24 Hz natively), but it still slows down so let’s not make it as if the game maintained the same fluidity.
Still, yes for games that drop very very infrequently it is still a great thing to have. Not arguing against HDMI specs :).

The issue with OLED TV’s remains and there are lots of them on the market too, but sure it will be better for everyone when both consoles have this feature active too: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnar...v-vrr-issuesbut-cant-promise-a-quick-fix/amp/
 
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Riky

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It smooths out the judder yes (but not because of the removal of tearing, but because the TV is not repeating frames at an uneven pace: think Blu-Ray playback at 24Hz on TV’s doing 3:2 pull down and TV’s able to display 24 Hz natively), but it still slows down so let’s not make it as if the game maintained the same fluidity.
Still, yes for games that drop very very infrequently it is still a great thing to have. Not arguing against HDMI specs :).

The issue with OLED TV’s remains and there are lots of them on the market too, but sure it will be better for everyone when both consoles have this feature active too.

Luckily I have a Nanocell, so no issues here.
 

Panajev2001a

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Luckily I have a Nanocell, so no issues here.

Great for that issue (slowdown and input lag are still there), less so for all the other advantages OLED provides (and all other 4K TV’s on the market without VRR support) which means using VRR in the console war a bit pointless (not just because we are a FW away from having it on both).

Let’s see in 2022 when the next generation display tech really gets interesting: the promise is always the same “true blacks, great contrast, strong HDR peak brightness without ALB, low pixel response time, no judder panning, VRR without any side effects, no burn in, etc...”.
 

Riky

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Great for that issue (slowdown and input lag are still there), less so for all the other advantages OLED provides (and all other 4K TV’s on the market without VRR support) which means using VRR in the console war a bit pointless (not just because we are a FW away from having it on both).

Let’s see in 2022 when the next generation display tech really gets interesting: the promise is always the same “true blacks, great contrast, strong HDR peak brightness without ALB, low pixel response time, no judder panning, VRR without any side effects, no burn in, etc...”.

Have you actually used VRR? Yes the framerate is still dropping, but you don't see it, that's the point.

As for input lag you would need a sustained period of low framerate to feel it, the facts are though is that you can look at any next gen analysis and see that doesn't happen, most games drop frames for milliseconds and then return to the target, you're never going to feel that through your controller.

I agree TV tech will improve and hopefully HDMI 2.1 becomes the standard, the Nanocell was for my gaming room and it's not my main TV I'll upgrade that next year but it's been pretty great for next gen consoles with no issues at all and not that expensive at £800.
 
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Deleted this game from PS5 after downloading it and having it in the system for couple of days. Played the original didn't get WTF was it trying to convey in it's gameplay and story. Skipped the PS4 release because I just couldn't stand the sluggish gunplay due to sluggish 30fps. Picked up the PS5 version. There's no indication of what I need to do in the world, what are the objectives? The UI is so messy and way too much items being fed simulatenously. More power to those of you enjoying this!
 
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Panajev2001a

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Have you actually used VRR? Yes the framerate is still dropping, but you don't see it, that's the point.

As for input lag you would need a sustained period of low framerate to feel it, the facts are though is that you can look at any next gen analysis and see that doesn't happen, most games drop frames for milliseconds and then return to the target, you're never going to feel that through your controller.

I agree TV tech will improve and hopefully HDMI 2.1 becomes the standard, the Nanocell was for my gaming room and it's not my main TV I'll upgrade that next year but it's been pretty great for next gen consoles with no issues at all and not that expensive at £800.

You still see it, C9 supports it, as the game is still rendering at a lower rate. Imagine, in a game with frequent spikes, framerate is still fluctuating between 45 and 60 FPS or 55 and 60 FPS you will see that on screen: it may not tear but the animation will slows down and up (VRR is not creating missing frames. Some people find that annoying as much as tearing happening at the top of the screen (not all tearing happens smack middle of the screen in a very noticeable position).

You see the effects of lower framerate with it less than you would without perhaps 🎉 sure, but for now it is being oversold a bit for console warring purposes.

If you switch on Quality Mode in Spider-man, I am kind of turning on permanent VRR to 30 FPS and input lag aside, there is animation speed difference. The eye does adjust to a constant locked framerate though. VRR does help to cover up very infrequent framerate drops, but it has its own issues (one of them being Riky Riky laughing it up I guess ;)).
 
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Riky

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You still see it, C9 supports it, as the game is still rendering at a lower rate. Imagine, in a game with frequent spikes, framerate is still fluctuating between 45 and 60 FPS or 55 and 60 FPS you will see that on screen: it may not tear but the animation will slows down and up. Some people find that annoying as much as tearing happening at the top of the screen (not all tearing happens smack middle of the screen in a very noticeable position).

You see the effects of lower framerate with it less than you would without perhaps 🎉 sure, but for now it is being oversold a bit for console warring purposes.

I've used Series X extensively on both A VRR and a normal 4k HDR 60hz TV, I can clearly see tearing and judder on my Sony 8 series and I haven't seen any at all on my LG. You also have to remember frame times, they are much more compressed at 16ms and 8ms so we're no longer talking about 33ms with constantly low performance like last gen, just having 8ms frame times helps a great deal.
 

RevenantX

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Bungie achieved something with Destiny which no game has achieved in history of games. It helped people suffering from severe sleep Insomnia. People who were not able to sleep properly, now can thanks to Destiny 2. Doctors claimed that Destiny 2's boring and dull gameplay is truly a medical miracle which helped many people suffering from Insomnia and have made it part of their insomnia treatment, now every patient is required to play destiny2 for few hours for treatment of insomnia. According to tests, all patients suffering from insomnia now instantly passed out due to boredom. No medicine could have achieved such results so fast but talented devs at Bungie did it.


I would like to take this opportunity to thank Bungie. Thank you guys.
 

Valued Gamer

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Meh, another nothing burger.
Gonna be 12 months or so before we know the deal with these consoles.
As far a multiplats go, its going to be interesting to see how the devs handle the XSXs extra feature set.
If a game was juat on PS5 and XSX, I couldn't see a dev going to the extent of using Mesh Shaders and SFS for instance on the XSX when the PS5 doesn't have it.
They would just put out a parity game and move on.
But with the games also being on PC, and all the XSX features also being on PC, they may well then exploit them for the XSX and PC, which might mean the PS5 falls behind.
Will be interesting to watch how it pans out.
 

J_Gamer.exe

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There is probably little to no difference here.

No exact like for like scenes.

An old game port not a new one for a start.

In scenes tested ps5 was found to be below 4k more than series x was, but by how much?

Ps5 was found to have an average higher framerate than seriex x.

Maybe there's tiny differences or maybe if you lowe the res in a couple of scenes by a miniscule amount its then a ps5 performance levels.

Or maybe if ps5 hit a tiny bit higher res in those scenes its performance would be a couple frames less on average and equal with the Series x.

Pretty daft game to brag over.

We know for a fact things like the engine, the code is different for each game. Some games perform better or worse on certain systems. So may factors.

You will see some better on ps5, some better on series x, depending on what advantages of the consoles are favoured, or as we see different leads throughout the games.

Overall though the data shows us ps5 is consistently performing higher across the multiple different games and engines etc.

This video doesn't go against that. There may be small differences but maybe NXGamer or df will have to point hose out.

To call an xbox win if you have higher res no matter how slight and higher performance then ok, still be miniscule. But to have marginally worse performance and probably marginally better res may well balance out.

So not a lot to see here imo.
 

VertigoOA

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Lot of salty cover band fans here. 343 will plagiarize a good game ... some day.
 
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Edgelord79

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Deleted this game from PS5 after downloading it and having it in the system for couple of days. Played the original didn't get WTF was it trying to convey in it's gameplay and story. Skipped the PS4 release because I just couldn't stand the sluggish gunplay due to sluggish 30fps. Picked up the PS5 version. There's no indication of what I need to do in the world, what are the objectives? The UI is so messy and way too much items being fed simulatenously. More power to those of you enjoying this!
Thanks for the review.

Do you have anything to add relevant to the thread?
 

VertigoOA

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What did this scrub test, 7 year old cosmodrome? Or did they even bother to load up any new content and locations? Sucks knowing than these tests won’t be done by someone actual capable of playing the game’s more demanding content.

Europa would be the place to start since it actually features new technology for the game, from improved lighting tech, to weather effects. 120hz crucible tests would be great to see too.

Edit: The Inverted Spire!? Are you kidding me.

This analysis is flat out garbage
 
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FranXico

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Maybe VRR is an RDNA2 feature that's coming in a patch.

:messenger_winking_tongue:

I honestly don't know this generation started off extremely weird.
The PS5 hardware indeed already supports VRR, but the firmware does not enable it yet.

Source: https://blog.playstation.com/2020/11/09/ps5-the-ultimate-faq/

People's ignorance or plain dishonesty (including techtubers) about how hardware and software work in tandem is indeed making this generation start very weird.
 
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Uncharted bunghole
The PS5 hardware indeed already supports VRR, but the firmware does not enable it yet.

Source: https://blog.playstation.com/2020/11/09/ps5-the-ultimate-faq/

People's ignorance or plain dishonesty (including techtubers) about how hardware and software work in tandem is indeed making this generation start very weird.

From what I've read it appears that the OS isn't fully fleshed out and missing some features. I'm guessing it's because of the OS that it's missing VRR. Sony basically are trying to iron out some issues before flipping the switch. They certainly want to make sure it works properly before enabling it.

Since it's in the specifications it should receive VRR relatively soon. Hopefully it lands on the system before the end of next year.
 
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Warnen

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Greatness awaits....
 

sainraja

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Bungie really should have made the Crucible more akin to Halo online. The PVP is crap, and was in Destiny 1 as well.
Just trying to understand better since I never got into the Halo (have tried); what would Destiny look like if it was more like Halos online?
 

SkylineRKR

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Deleted this game from PS5 after downloading it and having it in the system for couple of days. Played the original didn't get WTF was it trying to convey in it's gameplay and story. Skipped the PS4 release because I just couldn't stand the sluggish gunplay due to sluggish 30fps. Picked up the PS5 version. There's no indication of what I need to do in the world, what are the objectives? The UI is so messy and way too much items being fed simulatenously. More power to those of you enjoying this!

This is my experience.

I put 600 hours in Destiny 1, I hated the RNG but I enjoyed the Raid and PvP. I was rather invested in it for half a year or so. And for a few weeks when Taken King launched. I skipped Rise of Iron and bought Destiny 2 at launch. I hated it.

Then I tried this game again last month. wtf did I have to do? I visited some worlds, shot some fools and then I just deleted it. The game is literal maze with a terrible UI. And its not that there is much sustainable content, its still the same soulless shooting with the same soulless grinds to get somewhere. Its just a bad game that manages to let dopanine loose on the crowd who invests in it.

I beat all Bungie Halo's not too long ago and they're far better games. Offering fun PvP and co-op as well. Destiny is a waste of a good studio, imo.
 
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sainraja

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Or maybe devs haven't taken advantage of the XSX HW yet.
Crazy how many people are jumping to conclusions based on unoptimized launch games and cross gen games.
This is the same line that was used during the PS3 v. X360 era. As someone else has already pointed out, many people were claiming that the launch games would show a big difference between the two consoles, the reason why it is being made a HUGE deal which you are presenting as people jumping to conclusions.

This is so silly though. Each side is quick to point out hypocrisy ignoring events that lead to other events that they are trying to call out. It's rinse & repeat. In the end it doesn't matter because by the time games take advantage of the XSX (and if the performance differences turns out to be true) the content on both platforms will start to matter a lot more. You can't argue that XSX HW isn't being taken advantage of right now and assume at the same time the PS5 HW is being fully taken advantage of either so.....it might not matter as much by that point anyway! lol

Once both platforms get their 'main' games or games that are unique to each, I think these analysis threads aren't even going to be a thing. The conversation will switch to the content that both are offering which is why NOW is exactly the time where analysis threads actually DO matter in a funny way lol.
 
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Entroyp

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One more win for PS5. But that’s the norm now so no news here.
 
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VertigoOA

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If Destiny pvp was like Halo’s it’d be as dead as Halo.

I’m sorry losing Bungie cost MS any relevance as a first party game studio... Maybe 343 can plagiarize Bungie’s work and ideas some more... and continue to fail at it in epic fashion for another decade.
 
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Genx3

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This is the same line that was used during the PS3 v. X360 era. As someone else has already pointed out, many people were claiming that the launch games would show a big difference between the two consoles, the reason why it is being made a HUGE deal which you are presenting as people jumping to conclusions.

This is so silly though. Each side is quick to point out hypocrisy ignoring events that lead to other events that they are trying to call out. It's rinse & repeat. In the end it doesn't matter because by the time games take advantage of the XSX (and if the performance differences turns out to be true) the content on both platforms will start to matter a lot more. You can't argue that XSX HW isn't being taken advantage of right now and assume at the same time the PS5 HW is being fully taken advantage of either so.....it might not matter as much by that point anyway! lol

Once both platforms get their 'main' games or games that are unique to each, I think these analysis threads aren't even going to be a thing. The conversation will switch to the content that both are offering which is why NOW is exactly the time where analysis threads actually DO matter in a funny way lol.
Big difference between the clusterfuck that was the PS3 HW and the XSX HW.
It was known way before launch that MS was late getting next gen tools out.
That has affected the quality of the games. It's a pretty simple fact.
 

sainraja

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Big difference between the clusterfuck that was the PS3 HW and the XSX HW.
It was known way before launch that MS was late getting next gen tools out.
That has affected the quality of the games. It's a pretty simple fact.
I am sure the narrative will continue to change and evolve, it happens every generation depending on the side you are on. The time for XSX HW to show it's muscles is right now because right now is the only time it is going to matter.
 

thismeinteil

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Only ones moving goalposts are Xbox fans. They have been touting 12 Tflops and 18% better performance, which would only be the start, for almost a year, now. As soon as the real results are not supporting their overconfident bragging and dissing of PS5, their meme threads, they try to play victim. PS fans are mainly sticking Xbox fans' words back in their face, as they are reduced to treating parity or a even a 1% advantage as wins. Pretty pathetic turn of events.
 
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Bittermich

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GAF when the XBOX Series X was revealed...

Boom----12TF, True 4K only, 120fps, Hardware RT, Direct ML, VRS, a 40-50fps framerate advantage...

GAF when reality and the real faceoffs emerge

Tools are not yet mature, huge API update incoming, tune your calendars for the impending ladies and gentlemen......In the here and now, better framerate on PS5 on more taxing non like for like scenes on PS5 footage is an XBOX win and a jolly cause for celebration....A far cry from the swooning days, I'd say....

After XSX was revealed and after those statements were made:

Boom——-COVID came and fucked basically everything.

but we can already see games running way better on Xbox. For example just look at cyberpunk. Plays basically like a different game on XSX. Complete different settings. Way beyond PS5.
 
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geordiemp

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After XSX was revealed and after those statements were made:

Boom——-COVID came and fucked basically everything.

but we can already see games running way better on Xbox. For example just look at cyberpunk. Plays basically like a different game on XSX. Complete different settings. Way beyond PS5.

Cyberpunk on Ps5 runs the ps4 version, XSX runs the Xb1X version, there are no next gen console Cyberpunk versions yet.

Boom nobody had any idea what your talking about.

Are you sayng COVID is the reason Microsoft designed a server APU architecture and put it in the XSX ? who knows
 
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J_Gamer.exe

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You know what I find funny?

A few weeks ago, XboxGAF members were saying Assassins Creed "won" the comparison because the frame-rate was more stable, even though the resolution dropped more frequently on the XsX compared to the PS5. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Shh, well now its different, its whatever is highest at that particular time that suits.

Wins are in desperate need for the most powerful console side after the bragging to save face.

Crow supplies are at an all time low.
 

Sir Vilhelm

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Only ones moving goalposts are Xbox fans. They have been touting 12 Tflops and 18% better performance, which would only be the start, for almost a year, now. As soon as the real results are not supporting their overconfident bragging and dissing of PS5, their meme threads, they try to play victim. PS fans are mainly sticking Xbox fans' words back in their face, as they are reduced to treating parity or a even a 1% advantage as wins. Pretty pathetic turn of events.

blah blah console warring blah blah

You kids need to grow up at some point. They're machines to play games on, no need to get your panties in a bunch.
 
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Genx3

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XSX runs at higher resolution and has the same frame rate.
Why are people pretending the PS5 has a better frame rate?
 
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jroc74

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Everyone thought that the head to heads are going to become enterataining once the consoles are out, but so far it has been a snooze fest. The consoles perform identical to the naked eye.
I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all, but definitely a bit boring for people who like some drama.
No, they are entertaining, lol. Hanging out in speculation threads before and after the console specs were revealed were a good test for one's sanity.

Its such a different atmosphere now that actual faceoffs have started.....;)
 
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XSX runs at higher resolution and has the same frame rate.
Why are people pretending the PS5 has a better frame rate?

Same reason why people think the XSX runs at the same resolution. Basically the differences are not enough to say that they are significant.

Now if one system would run the game at a native 4K and the other at 1800P that would be something really worth bragging about.
 

Genx3

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Same reason why people think the XSX runs at the same resolution. Basically the differences are not enough to say that they are significant.

Now if one system would run the game at a native 4K and the other at 1800P that would be something really worth bragging about.
Those resolution differences are more noticeable then what boils down to the same frame rate.
 
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Those resolution differences are more noticeable then what boils down to the same frame rate.

We really don't have any good information on those resolution differences. Like how often does it drop? And when they do drop is there a large difference between the two or an extremely minor one?

Without that it's hard to say if it's even noticeable or not. Certainly nothing like a 1080P Vs 900P kind of situation for the entirety of the game.
 
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JackMcGunns

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Isn't that kind of sad though since the delta should be alot larger? If you go by paper specifications I mean.


Same can be said of the SSD. If you compare the speed of compressed data, it was supposed to be a landslide, but we're only seeing a second or 2 difference in load times. Now before someone hypocritically points out that future games should show a bigger gap, don't do it without considering that XSX games could potentially show a bigger gap in performance and/or graphics, we have to give both paper specs the benefit of the doubt 🤷‍♂️
 
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Same can be said of the SSD. If you compare the speed of compressed data, it was supposed to be a landslide, but we're only seeing a second or 2 difference in load times. Now before someone hypocritically points out that future games should show a bigger gap, don't do it without considering that XSX games could potentially show a bigger gap in performance and/or graphics, we have to give both paper specs the benefit of the doubt 🤷‍♂️

That's if the only thing that matters are the paper specifications. The results could be alot different than what the paper specifications show. Maybe the gap will narrow or it will widen in favor of the PS5. Heck it could remain the same throughout the generation. We have to wait and see if the paper specifications are really indicative of the systems performance.

But like you said the SSD proves that paper specifications don't really reflect what actually happens. Same for the other specifications as well like the teraflops for example. There's no way you can tell me that the XSX is showing a 2TF advantage in games.
 

JackMcGunns

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That's if the only thing that matters are the paper specifications. The results could be alot different than what the paper specifications show. Maybe the gap will narrow or it will widen in favor of the PS5. Heck it could remain the same throughout the generation. We have to wait and see if the paper specifications are really indicative of the systems performance.

But like you said the SSD proves that paper specifications don't really reflect what actually happens. Same for the other specifications as well like the teraflops for example. There's no way you can tell me that the XSX is showing a 2TF advantage in games.


Exactly my point.
 
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Exactly my point.

It's why I choose to use comparisons instead of paper specifications. But in defense of the PS5s SSD it seems that only Sonys 1st parties can achieve ridiculously short load times on it. I don't see 3rd parties trying to achieve that if it can't work on the XSX.

Things will get better for both but I doubt the differences between the two Will reflect the paper specifications.
 

The Hamburglar

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Have you actually used VRR? Yes the framerate is still dropping, but you don't see it, that's the point.

As for input lag you would need a sustained period of low framerate to feel it, the facts are though is that you can look at any next gen analysis and see that doesn't happen, most games drop frames for milliseconds and then return to the target, you're never going to feel that through your controller.

I agree TV tech will improve and hopefully HDMI 2.1 becomes the standard, the Nanocell was for my gaming room and it's not my main TV I'll upgrade that next year but it's been pretty great for next gen consoles with no issues at all and not that expensive at £800.
What a load of shit lol. Ask anyone who games on pc and uses gsync. You can 100% feel the frames drop even with free sync g sync on .
 
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S73v3

Banned
Dec 15, 2020
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Looks like the Sony and the PlayStation has met it's match! It's over for the Sony and the PlayStation 5!

Xbox Won!!!!11111 and for some..... That really stings.....
 
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