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Up: Pedro Pascal confirmed to play Joel in HBO's adaptation of TLOU

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nkarafo

nkarafo

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CartoonsNCereal said:
Why are you assuming this was a "trying to be woke" choice and not an artistic one? because artistically, it's more interesting, and a good chance it is something that they thought about when making the game, I'd wager on that.

the names Joel and Ellie are more prolific to the story than the actual race of the characters, if they're changing the race then they certainly would want to KEEP the name in order to convey some sort of familiarity towards the adaptation. artistically, that makes sense.

are you an artists dude? because you aren't thinking like one lol I hate explain creative shit to the non creatives.
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I just don't agree with changing established characters. Doesn't matter if it's an artistic or woke choice. You made a character. You gave them name/gender/sex/race. You already made your artistic choices. People already connected with the character.

99% of characters that exist in fiction could be changed this way because rarely race is important for the story. I mean, sure, i love artistic and creative freedom but some basic rules need to apply so not everything is so random. I get the story is important but characters also are. And the way they look give them an identity.
 
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CartoonsNCereal

Banned
nkarafo said:
I just don't agree with changing established characters. Doesn't matter if it's an artistic or woke choice. You made a character. You gave them name/gender/sex/race. You already made your artistic choices. People already connected with the character.

99% of characters that exist in fiction could be changed this way because rarely race is important for the story. I mean, sure, i love artistic and creative freedom but some basic rules need to apply so not everything is so random.
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they aren't changing the character, guarantee the decisions, actions and personality will be the same. that is the character.

race/gender only comes into play if the story truly calls for it; and doesn't make any sense without it.

you do understand that the majority of white characters in games aren't meticulously decided to be white right? White is just the subconscious default and safe focus group choice, and blank canvas free from archetypes and financial risk lol please realize that, so of course Joel is white; if there is a video game there is 99% chance the character will be white lol
 
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kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
RevenantX said:
Untitled-design.png
Better fit
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nkarafo

nkarafo

Member
CartoonsNCereal said:
they aren't changing the character, guarantee the decisions, actions and personality will be the same. that is the character.

race/gender only comes into play if the story truly calls for it; and doesn't make any sense without it.
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Well, i disagree. If i draw a character the way i want him to look and sell him to an audience, i wouldn't change him later on or want anyone else change him. The appearance of a fictional character is also a part of the artistic direction and the character's identity.

And by the way, yes, i'm also an artist. But i don't write stories, i draw.
 
Batiman

Batiman

Banned
nkarafo said:
I don't support race-swapping historic figures either.

Joel is an established character. Doesn't matter if his race/gender plays any significant role for you or not. It's already established how he looks/acts.

For me, changing established characters this way is bad because it's not canon. Simple as that.
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Not cannon? I’m not sure if you know what that means. This is not a continuation from the games. This is a live action adaptation, which will provide be a lot different from the game
 
EDMIX

EDMIX

Member
nkarafo said:
If i draw a character the way i want him to look and sell him to an audience, i wouldn't
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smh. Did you see what you posted bud? Nothing is wrong with that as what you create is based on your intent, I'll never argue about that as its your work.....

The person that literally wrote this series and made theses characters was seeking Ali, which means they clearly would do what you wouldn't as race likely is not a factor in the character. The character is likely interchangeable. So when the actual creator is literally looking for that actor, he is confirming Joel's race isn't a ironclad, fixed, can't be changed thing. Sorry but this isn't a game about a subject that the characters race solely must be 1 thing or something.

if you draw a character for that reason, nothing is wrong with that, but understand your choice to do so is your own. Not everyone is drawing a character for that reason though. If you could understand that you "wouldn't", I'm pretty sure you could understand a different artist would for different reasons.
 
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Hugare

Hugare

Member
EDMIX said:
Nothing in the game has supported the race of any character actually NEEDING to be the role or something. ie not really "established", its more interchangeable. What is interchangeable btw is based on the person that created the work.

So if I make a book with a stranger saving a random person and in the ending of the 3rd book you find out they are related, the race must be the same as its established that its a key part of the book.....

Nothing in The Last Of Us regarding Joel or Ellie is based on race and the person that actually created the series would know this best......its their work, not yours....sooooo if the actual creator was seeking him, its likely because nowhere in the series does Joels race play a significant role. If we find out that in a prequel that he was part of some mainly white biker gang then ok lol As a artist myself, when I write or create, if I intend to make the sex or race of a person something specific for a certain reason, sometimes that reason is revealed later on, thus...only I know why character A or B was a certain race or sex.

not you.....

you didn't make the work, thus you don't know if they "need" to be 1 sex or 1 race etc.


@eyesabitdull "major shake ups" nah. Nothing in The Last Of Us ever really focused on Joels race....like zero, that isn't a shake up. It would be like you crying over the actors fucking height talking about "mAjOr shaKez UpZ" when nothing in the game is tied to that, ie he wasn't a former basketball player to make his height a significant thing.

Nothing in The Last Of Us exist regarding Joels race to say it MUST be 1 thing as his race isn't a massive factor in the series. I'd argue the fact that the person that created the series was even seeking such an actor proves they had no intent to make his race play a factor.

So....I'd argue the person that created that series knows its universe better then you or I. For all you know, they looked at many people to play Joel and Tommy simply matching their races as they are related.
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It's 3 AM in here, so I'll try to be brief

I know that nothing about these characters stories are related to their races, but I preffer when adaptations are as faithful to its original material as possible

Especially when they have no fucking reason to change the character's race, at all

"Its their work, not yours". I agree, he can do whatever the fuck he wants.

Just like I can choose what to watch or not

Btw, Pedro Pascal is going to be Joel, so ...
 
C

CartoonsNCereal

Banned
nkarafo said:
Well, i disagree. If i draw a character the way i want him to look and sell him to an audience, i wouldn't change him later on or want anyone else change him. The appearance of a fictional character is also a part of the artistic direction and the character's identity.

And by the way, yes, i'm also an artist. But i don't write stories, i draw.
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okay but in this particular case they clearly wanted to try a different concept, and with games man....it's not always an "artistic" decision to have the character look the way they do...especially when they are on that cover, especially when they are white. it usually has very little to do with the story when a character is decided to be white. Whereas ironically, when a character is any other race in games, it's usually connected to their origin within the game or made to make sense lol

Movies there's a bit more freedom ...
 
EDMIX

EDMIX

Member
Hugare said:
I preffer when adaptations are as faithful to its original material as possible
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Being "faithful" based on race is kind of irrelevant if the very work had nothing to do with that in the first place.

Hugare said:
Especially when they have no fucking reason to change the character's race, at all
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You've provided no logical reason why it should stay the same. It has no factor to the story, as it didn't in the actual game. So if that is interchangeable, i don't care.



Hugare said:
Btw, Pedro Pascal is going to be Joel, so ...
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I was reading in another thread, I loved him in Narcos and I believe he will do a great job as Joel. I see no reason why race was ever going to some how hurt this show as nothing in the game is about that to ever play a factor. You can have any man play Joel tbh.

I'd say the only thing that even factors in his role would be age and even that can be altered with make up. Abby calls him a old man, because of the years between when the pandemic starts and when the story starts, him being old is part of it, other then that he can be played by pretty much anyone.
 
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Hugare

Hugare

Member
Will have to wait and see

He is a good actor, but I imagined Joel with a southern accent and more "presence"

Deep down I knew that Hugh Jackman would never get casted, but I'm disapointed nonetheless
 
Hugare

Hugare

Member
EDMIX said:
Being "faithful" based on race is kind of irrelevant if the very work had nothing to do with that in the first place.



You've provided no logical reason why it should stay the same. It has no factor to the story, as it didn't in the actual game. So if that is interchangeable, i don't care.





I was reading in another thread, I loved him in Narcos and I believe he will do a great job as Joel. I see no reason why race was ever going to some how hurt this show as nothing in the game is about that to ever play a factor. You can have any man play Joel tbh.

I'd say the only thing that even factors in his role would be age and even that can be altered with make up. Abby calls him a old man, because of the years between when the pandemic starts and when the story starts, him being old is part of it, other then that he can be played by pretty much anyone.
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"Being "faithful" based on race is kind of irrelevant if the very work had nothing to do with that in the first place"

Not to me. But you do you.

"You've provided no logical reason why it should stay the same. It has no factor to the story, as it didn't in the actual game. So if that is interchangeable, i don't care."

I have a good reason: we have experienced the story with these characters being white.

Now YOU give me a good reason why it should be changed, not the other way around
 
nkarafo

nkarafo

Member
EDMIX said:
You've provided no logical reason why it should stay the same. It has no factor to the story, as it didn't in the actual game. So if that is interchangeable, i don't care.
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Why there has to be some important reason with you?

There is no logical reason to change the race of the character either.

People got used to how the character looks. It's as simple as that.
 
EDMIX

EDMIX

Member
Hugare said:
Now YOU give me a good reason why it should be changed, not the other way around
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If the actor can play the role.

Thats it.

The race of the characters in the game never had any massive impact on me to the point of arguing they must stay the same. The race simply never played a massive factor for me liking the game so......yea. It simply wasn't a story focused on that, thus subject to change. Its not a story about some African tribe fighting off the British or something lol


Its like saying the height of the person being different is a big deal or their hair color being exactly the same or something silly like that. The game isn't about a basketball player thus irrelevant, the game isn't about a Salon struggling to make ends meet and a character named after a hair style or anything odd like that. Nothing in the game about race really plays any factor.

I'd argue their AGE as a demographic is a factor. He is old, she is young. He has lived in a time before the apocalypse, she has not. That is clearly on purpose and a story element, their race on the other hand is simply never talked about.
 
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Hugare

Hugare

Member
EDMIX said:
If the actor can play the role.

Thats it.

The race of the characters in the game never had any massive impact on me to the point of arguing they must stay the same. The race simply never played a massive factor for me liking the game so......yea. It simply wasn't a story focused on that, thus subject to change. Its not a story about some African tribe fighting off the British or something lol
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Pedro Pascal is chilean, so unless he is able to do a southern accent, that's already changing a lot about the character.

Joel is texan, born and raised, and that is a big part of the character.

It may not matter to you, but you gotta respect how it matters to other people
 
EDMIX

EDMIX

Member
Hugare said:
Pedro Pascal is chilean, so unless he is able to do a southern accent, that's already changing a lot about the character.

Joel is texan, born and raised, and that is a big part of the character.

It may not matter to you, but you gotta respect how it matters to other people
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He is an actor. He also played many roles that have different accents.

Several actors in the Walking Dead ARE NOT AMERICAN, yet clearly can play someone that is American as.......well they are actors.

You telling me the actor MUST be from Texas or?

3e617bf66f34799ec40d9f656c4050d8.jpg


Wait till you find you that this dude is from the United Kingdom.

So I'm sorry man but none of this should ever matter. If they can play the role and the character is not locked into some race based on some story element, it should never matter.

The only thing that should ironically is the how the age is used as THAT is a story element, not race.
 
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nkarafo

nkarafo

Member
EDMIX said:
Its like saying the height of the person being different is a big deal or their hair color being exactly the same or something silly like that.
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All these characteristics you point out, like height, could matter in more subtle ways. Doesn't have to be a "basketball player" for the height to play some role. Hairstyle not so much because that can easily be changed by anyone in real life anyway.
 
HaveButOneLife

HaveButOneLife

Banned
Not what I hoped for. My top 2 picks were Gerard Butler or Josh Brolin, Pedro looks nothing like Joel...

...because he looks more like Nathan Drake. COME ON!!
 
Danjin44

Danjin44

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I will never understand the point of making movie/TV show of Last of Us or Uncharted. The whole selling point of those two games is that they are bringing Hollywood style cinematic in gaming form.
 
triplestation

triplestation

Member
i don't really think any actor i know gives off the right joel vibe

pedro pascal is another weird choice

i could see pedro as a great side character for sure, but he's no joel
 
SkylineRKR

SkylineRKR

Member
Danjin44 said:
I will never understand the point of making movie/TV show of Last of Us or Uncharted. The whole selling point of those two games is that they are bringing Hollywood style cinematic in gaming form.
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Yeah those adaptions are almost never good. They usually fail to deliver to the fanbase who will vocally pick it apart, and for the non fanbase its probably too whatever.

Castlevania is top tier, but perhaps because they went for animation. For the rest I enjoyed Sonic because it doesn't take itself seriously, and the original MK movie because I was 15 (its probably shit).
 
RareJordan

RareJordan

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So it turns out this Pedro pascal guy has a face that I don’t like looking at and I’ve lost all interest in the show. I will actually go out of my way to not watch it.
 
Danjin44

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
SkylineRKR said:
Yeah those adaptions are almost never good. They usually fail to deliver to the fanbase who will vocally pick it apart, and for the non fanbase its probably too whatever.

Castlevania is top tier, but perhaps because they went for animation. For the rest I enjoyed Sonic because it doesn't take itself seriously, and the original MK movie because I was 15 (its probably shit).
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My issue is if wanted to watch movie similar to Uncharted then I would watch "Indiana Jones" which where Uncharted got its inspiration in the first place and its same with TLOU, I would just watch "The Road".
 
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