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Tomshardware - Xbox Series X SSDs Will be Powered by Phison Controller, Report Claims

TBiddy

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Now, I admit I'm speculating on the "dual drives support" thing, but it seems kinda obvious XSX and PS5 are going to be utilizing a setup very similar (and improved upon) from AMD's SSG line. Just...nowhere near as expensive (mainly because of much less memory and using non-SLC or MLC NAND).

I think the whole "dual drive" theory is very plausible. Both Sony and MS need to know the speed of the drive they are using as virtual ram, otherwise it'll ruin a lot of the optimizations the devs are making. I suspect it could be 256GB (or maybe 512GB) of ultra fast storage, and then a 'standard' NVME SSD which can be replaced... well, not officially replace and will void warranty, but still replaceable.
 
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Dane

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Fucking Phison, my SSD crashed once, restored the damn controlled, but everything was wiped off.
 

Bladed Thesis

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I'm in denial? Nope and someone need to accept facts, though. Xbox fans have a hard time accepting some facts mostly during this gen.

Like i said, wasn't wrong. Xbone S's HDD ( Seagate st2000lm003 ) has Avg. Sequential Mixed IO Speed 54.1MB/s ( btw, this is a PC testing, maybe in Xbone S is somehow higher, but that's about it ). If the MS want to use a some read/write benchmark for SSD improvement in their XSX, they had to account their weakest console.
Yikes.
 

it_wasn't_me

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1. You were talking about XB1, not XB1S. Cant even keep your story straight now?

2. The speed of the disk in the XB1 is rated at 145 MB/sec. Go check it out. After that, multiply the number with 40 and let everyone know what that result is.

Here’s a link with the specs: https://www.cnet.com/products/samsung-spinpoint-m8-st500lm012-hard-drive-500-gb-sata-6gb-s/

So yeah, you were wrong, and now you’re desperately reaching for a lifeline.

Oh, sorry. I've forgot put S letter in one of the previous posts ( when i mentioned "Xbox One HDD as a 50-100MB/s drive. " ). But how about REAL WORLD testing, not rated numbers :

The performance of both Samsung notebook hard disks is average. The 500 GB model has a slightly higher sequential data rate than the 1 TB one, achieving a read rate of 84.7 MB/s and a write rate of 84.6 MB/s, which is quite good. It’s not good enough for the top spot, however, as Western Digital’s Scorpio Blue WD10JPVT is faster.


Since this thread is related to tomshardware. So, i'm in denial, right. LOL

Also, similar results on average here :

 
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Investor9872

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This is not going to be cheap. It's a beast. I wonder how much of the BOM MS is going to absorb for the XSX launch? Two, three hundred dollars? Insane!
 

TBiddy

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Oh, sorry. I've forgot put S letter in one of the previous posts ( when i mentioned "Xbox One HDD as a 50-100MB/s drive. " ). But how about REAL WORLD testing, not rated numbers :




Since this thread is related to tomshardware. So, i'm in denial, right. LOL

Also, similar results on average here :


Good we agree that you mistaked the two consoles.

When comparing the theoretical maximum speed of an SSD, we of course need to use the same metric for the HDD. Which leads us back to..... you guessed it. 145 times 40. Do the math.

You were wrong and instead of admitting it like a normal person, you start reaching for straws. It’s odd, to be honest.
 

cireza

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Would have been much more interesting if it was powered by a Phazon Controller.

This is a bit disappointing.

 
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it_wasn't_me

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Good we agree that you mistaked the two consoles.

When comparing the theoretical maximum speed of an SSD, we of course need to use the same metric for the HDD. Which leads us back to..... you guessed it. 145 times 40. Do the math.

You were wrong and instead of admitting it like a normal person, you start reaching for straws. It’s odd, to be honest.

I'm wrong cuz i've linked real world test results? Yeah, sure. LOL.
 
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rofif

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So this "next gen unbelievable on pc" ssd's will be no faster than my mp510 nvme?
I still think that in a console closed environment, developers will be able to make a great use of it
 
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But how will this matter if the console still uses a bluray drive?

You see, the data and the thyroids in the Bluray disc are super slow and since that's where the game data is there is a speed cap and so you can only pull from it so fast.

Even after you install it to a SSD you can't go faster than the bluray cap because SSD can't move faster and a thing.

Help me out here Freedom Gate Co. Freedom Gate Co. ;)
 

it_wasn't_me

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Good we agree that you mistaked the two consoles.

When comparing the theoretical maximum speed of an SSD, we of course need to use the same metric for the HDD. Which leads us back to..... you guessed it. 145 times 40. Do the math.

You were wrong and instead of admitting it like a normal person, you start reaching for straws. It’s odd, to be honest.

I've forgot to mention S letter. Nevertheless, Fat Xbone and XboneS aren't world's apart.

I've linked a real world test result and i'm wrong? Fine then, i'm wrong.
 
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Journey

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Dontero

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Devs are well aware of this, that's why large open world games are using a single "bigfile" to optimize seek times and latency. (see slides 4 and 5 here or this gdc talk at around 28 minutes)

They were doing it for years already. Almost every new game comes with few huge files in it.
It reduces seek time as you said and latency but it doesn't add extra speed to transfer itself. So sequential read is still not used because developers choose and pick small parts of that file.

You aren't factoring in the reality that games have yet to be explicitly designed around SSDs as a storage device; vast majority just brute-force use of them and on PC there is OS abstraction (necessary because of all the possible setups, even if drives are conforming to a standard set of specifications).

Consoles will be using semi-custom SSDs more in line with AMD's SSG cards; the drives will be used as a cache and be memory-mapped by their respective console's OS. That's why they will probably not be removable, but support a secondary, optional drive on a slower interconnect.

Now, I admit I'm speculating on the "dual drives support" thing, but it seems kinda obvious XSX and PS5 are going to be utilizing a setup very similar (and improved upon) from AMD's SSG line. Just...nowhere near as expensive (mainly because of much less memory and using non-SLC or MLC NAND).

Every game is designed around SSD since its creation because hardware speed was always slow. It is SSD that will allow people to be lazy now (which is better, you want people to design and play games instead of fighting with technology). There is nothing different in SSD compared to HDD. By definition you can't make it cartridge which is what you are thinking off because it is not fast memory. To have cartridge like setup you have to have 512GB-1TB of RAM which is what games are using for games data storage before it is fed into VRAM.

The SSD bolten on top of GPU is nice idea for cad work or huge files work/editing like in case of 8k 16k movies but it is completely useless for games. SSD has at best 6-8GB/s speed in best case scenario. VRAM which is what games are using are operating at minimum 512GB/s now and in next generation they should hit 1TB/s speed.

The SSD will be huge change but it will be exactly the same change people were experiencing when they switched their PC to SSD. I even used SSD in PS3 and it shaved off gran turismo loadings from 1-2 minutes to about 15-20 seconds.

Also you can completely forget about second drive. That is stupid idea.
 
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TBiddy

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I've forgot to mention S letter. Nevertheless, Fat Xbone and XboneS aren't world's apart.

I've linked a real world test result and i'm wrong? Fine then, i'm wrong.

You're wrong in the sense, that you're comparing real worlds speeds on the HDD with the theoretical maximum throughput of the SSD. That makes absolutely no sense. If you have a real world benchmark of an SSD which might compare to one of those we hopefully will see in the PS5 and the XSX, we can start comparing those numbers instead.

When we're talking the theoretical numbers of the SSD, we need to use the same number from the HDD.. and that adds up to about 5,800 MB/Sec, if we multiply the HDD number with 40, like Phil Spencer said.
 
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it_wasn't_me

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You're wrong in the sense, that you're comparing real worlds speeds on the HDD with the theoretical maximum throughput of the SSD. That makes absolutely no sense. If you have a real world benchmark of an SSD which might compare to one of those we hopefully will see in the PS5 and the XSX, we can start comparing those numbers instead.

When we're talking the theoretical numbers of the SSD, we need to use the same number from the HDD.. and that adds up to about 5,800 MB/Sec, if we multiply the HDD number with 40, like Phil Spencer said.

So, if you wanna be guided literally by 40x improvement, 5800MB/s is way above E16, waaaay above E19T, and waaaay below E18, since in table are theoretical numbers. So, because 40x multiplier doesn't match, it can't be above E16, can't be above E19T, but also it can't be at 7000 MB/s like E18. But if we look as the closest one, E16 can be. But that means theoretical speed of X1S HDD is 125 MB/s.
 
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TBiddy

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So, if you wanna be guided literally by 40x improvement, 5800MB/s is way above E16, waaaay above E19T, and waaaay below E18, since in table are theoretical numbers. So, because 40x multiplier doesn't match, it can't be above E16, can't be above E19T, but also it can't be at 7000 MB/s like E18. But if we look as the closest one, E16 can be. But that means theoretical speed of X1S HDD is 125 MB/s.

The actual quote was "We're seeing more than 40x performance increases over the current generation," - at least according to Tweaktown. I don't think it's literally 40 times, and we have no way of knowing which specific number they are actually referring to, so we're all guessing.

My point was simply, that you cannot compary a real-life test with theoretical numbers and then draw any conclusions.

PS. The next time you call me "kid" in a thread, at least have the decency to tag me.
 
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it_wasn't_me

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The actual quote was "We're seeing more than 40x performance increases over the current generation," - at least according to Tweaktown. I don't think it's literally 40 times, and we have no way of knowing which specific number they are actually referring to, so we're all guessing.

My point was simply, that you cannot compary a real-life test with theoretical numbers and then draw any conclusions.

PS. The next time you call me "kid" in a thread, at least have the decency to tag me.

Where? I've didn't said that to you in next-gen thread. Cheers!
 
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Dontero

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One can hope.

There is nothing to hope. PCI standard is based on CPU not on anything else. If Zen2 currently has support for PCIe4.0 it means consoles will have that too. The only way to not have it would be for AMD to make completely different CPU which is madness.

Secondly as i said before. PCIe4.0 is not something amazing. IT is just new standard that will be in everything now. It doesn't cost anyone anything more than PCIe3.0
 

nikolino840

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But how will this matter if the console still uses a bluray drive?

You see, the data and the thyroids in the Bluray disc are super slow and since that's where the game data is there is a speed cap and so you can only pull from it so fast.

Even after you install it to a SSD you can't go faster than the bluray cap because SSD can't move faster and a thing.

Help me out here Freedom Gate Co. Freedom Gate Co. ;)

 

iHaunter

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There is nothing to hope. PCI standard is based on CPU not on anything else. If Zen2 currently has support for PCIe4.0 it means consoles will have that too. The only way to not have it would be for AMD to make completely different CPU which is madness.

Secondly as i said before. PCIe4.0 is not something amazing. IT is just new standard that will be in everything now. It doesn't cost anyone anything more than PCIe3.0
You can have "Support" and still not use it. PCI 3 is backwards compatible.