DeepEnigma
Gold Member
So what's your issue? I thought it was about resolution and framerate?
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Tim Sweeney on the Tech Demo: "Nanite and Lumen tech powering it will be fully supported on both PS5 and Xbox Series X and will be awesome on both."
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
So what's your issue? I thought it was about resolution and framerate?
Rolla
Banned
People acting like Tim's new tweet is justification of their "it can run on XBOX theory" really blow my mind. Sony's point wasn't about a tflop argument it was about showcasing tech and making a marketing splash for PS5. They trended globally off the back of that demo. And when I say globally, I mean in every country with a gaming audience. Across Europe, Asia, Latin America, North America etc etc etc
It doesn't matter if they, or what they paid, it worked. It elevated their weaker console and pushed it to the forefront in terms of gaming interest.
Finding solace in a tweet with 9K likes and 1K replies is a sad situation. Arguing about the demo and how it runs on XBOX is semantics.
People are simply not ready for Sony's marketing onslaught. If you think the demo was bad just wait for Acti to showcase 2020 COD with zero mention of XBOX and a lot of talk about the SSD and how it benefits PS4 COD players. Right now Sony is like.
It doesn't matter if they, or what they paid, it worked. It elevated their weaker console and pushed it to the forefront in terms of gaming interest.
Finding solace in a tweet with 9K likes and 1K replies is a sad situation. Arguing about the demo and how it runs on XBOX is semantics.
People are simply not ready for Sony's marketing onslaught. If you think the demo was bad just wait for Acti to showcase 2020 COD with zero mention of XBOX and a lot of talk about the SSD and how it benefits PS4 COD players. Right now Sony is like.
Psykodad
Banned
Those "many" shouldn't even be taken seriously.
There will always be devs that'll push visuals and tech to the point of having to settle for 30fps. It isn't something new.
You might have a point though. Based on Pro anr XSX, I also expect a lot games offering different modes (visuals vs performance).
ethomaz
Banned
Xbox fan journalist...
phil_t98
#SonyToo
I also have the same, lots of games with diff frame rates and performance.
Forza horizon runs at 30fps and looks amazing so yeah games can run at that but when FPS are sacrificed usually it comes because of a higher resoloution. We will see though
phil_t98
#SonyToo
again ur twisting what I said, as a demo for next gen both 1080p and 1440p isn’t a great advertisement
Thirty7ven
Banned
DLSS has been talked about to high heavens for a reason. You're reading spreadsheets.
ManaByte
Member
People acting like Tim's new tweet is justification of their "it can run on XBOX theory" really blow my mind. Sony's point wasn't about a tflop argument it was about showcasing tech and making a marketing splash for PS5. They trended globally off the back of that demo. And when I say globally, I mean in every country with a gaming audience. Across Europe, Asia, Latin America, North America etc etc etc
It doesn't matter if they, or what they paid, it worked. It elevated their weaker console and pushed it to the forefront in terms of gaming interest.
Finding solace in a tweet with 9K likes and 1K replies is a sad situation. Arguing about the demo and how it runs on XBOX is semantics.
People are simply not ready for Sony's marketing onslaught. If you think the demo was bad just wait for Acti to showcase 2020 COD with zero mention of XBOX and a lot of talk about the SSD and how it benefits PS4 COD players. Right now Sony is like.
You don’t need to system war this hard. The plastic box isn’t going to fuck you.
ethomaz
Banned
Interesting.
They said which level of detail they got with that notebook? How many triangles generated?
Epic said can run even on mobiles the difference being the level of detail (triangles generates) scaled to storage speeds and resolution/framerate scaled to CPU/GPU power.
The flying part of I’m not wrong is the non-playable part?
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I did not twist, I asked a question or two because I misunderstood.
I think people also need to move away from the old mentality that resolution is end all be all. They showed better IQ than the majority of 4K games out there, with by far the highest level of detail.
There are far better ways to achieve higher end results with reconstruction techniques and push more assets. 4K isn't even mainstream pinnacle in the brute force realm on the PC, that sweet spot still belongs to 1440p monitor setups and will for quite some time.
I would rather have them push IQ balls to the wall with crazy assets, effects and details, than a resource hog check box of 4K, especially when dynamic reconstruction techniques are near discernible now.
Resolution wasn't the purpose of the demo. Billions of streamed polys at lossless CG movie assets were. And I will take it all day every day.
I used to be a native resolution purist coming from PC first gaming background. I have warmed up over the years seeing the results of their techniques.
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DoctaThompson
Banned
Let's see you try and spin this somehow lol. It's safe to assume the same or higher quality was used for that notebook demo. This is great news for everyone. Hopefully we get a demo to play around with on the epic games store soon!
phil_t98
#SonyToo
Resoloution will always be king where it can be done. No good having amazing assists if they are in a lower resoloution is it?
I mean I can view films at 1080p and it looks great but I can view it at 4k and everything is much clearer even though it’s the same film
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I agree to an extend, but most would have never known that was 1440p unless they told you. That IQ was divine.
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ethomaz
Banned
Spin what? I stay on facts.
Epic said it can run even on mobiles the difference being the level of detail (triangles generates) scaled to storage speeds and resolution/framerate scaled to CPU/GPU power.
That is the main point of the discussions... the most important thing are not being talked in that link that is what people are questioning and not if it run on others platforms.
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phil_t98
#SonyToo
now when you mention most people play at 1440p on pc yeah fair enough but these consoles designed for the living room and 4k TVs.
I honestly think that demo on both the PS5 and XSX can be done exactly how it was with same asserts and speed at higher res.
I think it was a quickly put together demo to show off what can be done. I think in terms of res and FPS it was poorly optimised for what the consoles can do. It’s not like there was an amazing amount of things going on is there? No AI to compute either.
the demo was impressive for sure but there will be a ton more these consoles can . Obvs PC will go even futher eventualy
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I think a few of the techs did say with more optimizations they could up the rez and framerate. They are still targeting 60 and I believe they said it was capped but ran in the 40s+ uncapped. This is very early on for it. Either way, I like what I am seeing.
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phil_t98
#SonyToo
Yeah and as they have said this will run an all consoles and will run on high end pcs currantly
DoctaThompson
Banned
The 40+fps was quoted to be running on a laptop as matter a fact. Would love if they have as many graphical settings to mess with as in Gears tactics.
The Chinese thread is pretty informative, going over it now.
D.Final
Banned
People acting like Tim's new tweet is justification of their "it can run on XBOX theory" really blow my mind. Sony's point wasn't about a tflop argument it was about showcasing tech and making a marketing splash for PS5. They trended globally off the back of that demo. And when I say globally, I mean in every country with a gaming audience. Across Europe, Asia, Latin America, North America etc etc etc
It doesn't matter if they, or what they paid, it worked. It elevated their weaker console and pushed it to the forefront in terms of gaming interest.
Finding solace in a tweet with 9K likes and 1K replies is a sad situation. Arguing about the demo and how it runs on XBOX is semantics.
People are simply not ready for Sony's marketing onslaught. If you think the demo was bad just wait for Acti to showcase 2020 COD with zero mention of XBOX and a lot of talk about the SSD and how it benefits PS4 COD players. Right now Sony is like.
Definitely This
Psykodad
Banned
I'd rather have 4kCB/1440p with improved graphical fidelity than native 4k.
Especially with HDR thrown into the mix.
VFXVeteran
Banned
I said that too. But of course, I'm a fake developer that doesn't have a clue because what I say downplays the signature "secret sauce" SSD.
ManaByte
Member
Realistically, the SSD is probably running at normal NMVe speeds. For 99% of people (including Tim Sweeney) that IS better than your normal SATA SSD that your Windows 10 install is running off of.
But those hardcore PC nuts who go out and buy a PCI NMVe just shrug at all of the system warriors bragging about the SSD.
I know what you mean.
Vawn
Banned
Xbox fans upset about this talking about PS5 and not Xbox Series X have to realize how this would have played out in reverse.
For months now, many have been painting the Series X as the all-powerful machine and the PS5 as being super weak, barely counting as a new gen. 12 TF was called godlike and 10.2 was called pathetic and weak.
So if this had been demoed on Series X, you can bet people would be saying it couldn't possibly be done on the "weak" PS5.
This proves the hardware will likely be very comparable - both being huge leaps forward with slight different strengths and weaknesses. It will come down to the games, as always.
For months now, many have been painting the Series X as the all-powerful machine and the PS5 as being super weak, barely counting as a new gen. 12 TF was called godlike and 10.2 was called pathetic and weak.
So if this had been demoed on Series X, you can bet people would be saying it couldn't possibly be done on the "weak" PS5.
This proves the hardware will likely be very comparable - both being huge leaps forward with slight different strengths and weaknesses. It will come down to the games, as always.
Stuart360
Member
Although i havent seen any Xbox fanboys say the PS5 is super weak, i do agree with your post though. Thats just the nature of fanboyism.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I’m sorry but I have to ask, if this is true then why was the same vague quote from IGN posted over and over and over again, bend waved around as some holy script that the UE5 demo was only possible on PS5? There were at least a couple people pretty interested in believing the XsX (or PC) can’t run the demo who don’t seem to be “Xbox fans” (as you put it).
I’m not saying it’s not okay to think like that, I’m not saying it’s not okay to post those kind of quotes and speculate. I’m just saying let’s not pretend it was only coming from one direction.
case in point:
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The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
60fps is still on the table
Remember when Sony said all PS4 games would run at 60 fps?
pawel86ck
Banned
PS4 CPU wasnt much faster than PS3 CELL CPU, so I wasnt expecting miracles back then.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
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pawel86ck
Banned
I'm sure it's a tasty treat for him, but lets not forget China is not a place of reliable information
.
existensmaximum
Member
Yeah, I'm willing to admit that native 4k can be a huge waste of resources after seeing this. Or at least that there are other factors that can improve the overall IQ immensely, which I personally prefer
Psykodad
Banned
Because that's technically correct, isn't it? They demoed it on PS5 and PS5 hardware made it possible.
Is it ambiguous? sure. But not incorrect.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
I want my vindication first.
How many times have I gone into great detail about how some of these subsystems work and get the cold shoulder or trolled. Even after all of my info on PS5 and Sony plans only to still be flamed.I had one developer come in here and educate me on how the details of the Nanite works. But none corrected me on misinformation about it being the sole reason that demo was done on the PS5 because it's SSD was the crowning jewel.
People think I push the PC narrative but what I'm really doing is using the PC as an agnostic piece of hardware as a base point by which all other comparisons can be made. People need to stop trying to defend their hardware of choice and adopt a "it's all about the games" mentality.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I want my vindication first.
Sorry pal, but to me the way you write makes me doubtful that you've spent much if any time working in the games business. I'm sorry, but contrary to what you say in your final paragraph you do seem to be unduly fixated on PC, and all too willing to discount the importance of overall i/o throughput to engine performance.
To be precise I'm not suggesting that you dont have any technical insight or experience, maybe you work in academia or some other commercial field, just not in game-dev. Your sentiments seem... out-of-whack compared to people I know/have known over the years.
Maybe I'm wrong, I make no claims of having more than a strong intuition on the matter. But it has been formed over reading posts of yours going back a few months.
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
I don't know.
I remember asking you about PlayStation hardware specifically and you kept bringing up PC hardware, which had absolutely nothing to do with my question. I think if people are talking about consoles specifically, then you don't need to bring up PC hardware into the discussion (at least for the most part).
ZywyPL
Banned
Totally expected, given PC/laptops have way more memory that can actually store the assets and don't have to rely on streaming.
Vawn
Banned
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Here you go. It's nothing but buzz words from both Microsoft and Sony. Games wants both 60 and good graphics, but screenshots are easier to sell.
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Vawn
Banned
That doesn't say that everyone PS4 game WILL be 1080p/60 FPS on PS4...
Try again with your anti-PlayStation crusade.
FranXico
Member
Oh, nobody cared about 1080p30 for the Minecraft ray tracing demo. It was even called a GAME CHANGER by DF.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Imagine comparing some rando dev, to the actual head of Xbox Marketing and king of ambiguity, Aaron "acts like a console warrior troll" Greenberg.
Sony has marketers that say some stupid shit as well, but this is not the equivalent gotcha you are looking for.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
They said it would focus on 60 fps, like they do now. It's 2013 all over again, and we have all forgotten it. Well almost anyone. And those who can remember are running an "anti Playstation crusade" because they can remember broken promises.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I just want my shiny trees. I’d take 480p/10fps and the shiniest trees in the universe
Vawn
Banned
You're literally making crap up here. Nowhere did Sony promise 60 FPS. The link you gave was quotes from a developer who didn't even work for Sony, he was just working on a game for PS4. And even he didn't claim every PS4 game would be 60 FPS, like you said. Did you really expect no one to check the link in your attempt to spread lies in your console War BS?
Obviously, Sony may have mentioned that about certain games or a possibility for PS4 games. There are 60 FPS games on PS4, of course.
Guess who else mentions 60 FPS for their console? Phil Spencer. And a lot more than Sony ever has. Phil's been mentioning 60+ FOS in regards to Series X. Well, guess what? We just saw the first big title, AC Valhalla already say it will be 30 FPS. Does that make Microsoft a liar and Phil breaking promises?
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Except Fortnite next year; and we don't know how easy the upgrade to UE5 is going to be.
These features might be built on top of UE4 and they are just naming it UE5 because of the leap in fidelity, leaving an easy path for upgrade for devs. Or it might be a fundamentally different engine and it will take years to see games, we really just don't know yet.
Thirty7ven
Banned
I want my vindication first.
I had one developer come in here and educate me on how the details of the Nanite works. But none corrected me on misinformation about it being the sole reason that demo was done on the PS5 because it's SSD was the crowning jewel.
People think I push the PC narrative but what I'm really doing is using the PC as an agnostic piece of hardware as a base point by which all other comparisons can be made. People need to stop trying to defend their hardware of choice and adopt a "it's all about the games" mentality.
How can you possible be educated on how the details of the nanite works when Epic hasn't revealed that yet?
And why is it that when somebody asks you something more specific you don't answer? I've asked you before what parts of a GPU will be more important in Nanite, considering they use software rasterizer for some parts and hardwarre rasterizer for others. I reckon a Nvidia GPU and a AMD Gpu won't perform the exact same, and therefore certain aspects of the GPU will be more valuable to one and less to the other.
You also don't seem able to explain how faster or slower IO (or amount of ram/VRAM ) might impact or not the amount of detail, not the fidelity as you describe it, but the amount of detail.
The thing is, I and others keep trying to give you that authority but you need to show us. I don't want you to tell me you know how it works, I want you to tell us how it works. You could be a voice of reason here, by sharing knowledge and not just alluding to it.
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The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Did you ignore entirely I said buzzwords from Microsoft and Sony? Here, let me show you my post again:
The difference between you and me are you are defending a console manufacturer, while I defend none and flak both.
Vawn
Banned
Like hell. You know your history. You've got the tag to prove it.
And you're not addressing the quotes of yours I'm calling out. You are bringing up other stuff.
Again show me where SONY promised all PS4 games would be 60 FPS. So far you've linked a quote from a no-name third-party developer and even that quote doesn't say what you claimed.
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The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
You know what. Yes. I have a bad post history. And I've been banned for it before, and I've taken my punishment. I'm in dialogue with the mods on the site, and it is a private manor so you are in no right to talk about it when you have no clue about why things have happened like they did.
I'm out from your fanboy talk. I'm sorry, but I'm not going back that route again. Have fun