Support NeoGAF

[Azure Dream]

There seems to be some confusion about the genesis. There won't be 1000 games available, there will be a "best of" of the Genesis's 1000 games available.

that means 14-20 sega-published games.

Ha ha hah, right. Of course.

"So, you mean, we just pass over this ROM of an old game we're doing jack with otherwise, you post it on the service and sell it, and other than your percentage cut, it generates profit for us... without us doing anything else?"

This thing is going to be flooded. The investment is so tiny to include many of those games that virtually anything they put up will find enough buyers to cost justify it.

 

[snatches]

:lol

all in your humble opinion, dude.

which statement made you LOL?

I think damn near every poster on this board would rather have every game released for NES, SNES and N64 collectively than every PS1 game. The NES or SNES catalogues alone would match up with the PS1.

And saying a mouse can do what the revmote can do is not just wrong, it's ignorant.

 

[BobbyRobby]

Zelda looks nice, but I pray to god there is a traditional control where you don't have to move Link by dragging the fairy around.

Turbo Graphx news is cool. I was actually looking at Turbo Grafx systems on ebay recently. I think I may hold off now.

 

[D3VI0US]

which statement made you LOL?

I think damn near every poster on this board would rather have every game released for NES, SNES and N64 collectively than every PS1 game. The NES or SNES catalogues alone would match up with the PS1.

And saying a mouse can do what the revmote can do is not just wrong, it's ignorant.

I'd wager a bunch of PSkids won't see it that way, they'll think that VC console games are shallow, ugly, too hard, boring, lame, etc. Believe it or not LoZ and Metroid aren't that fun to play, some of these games haven't aged well at all. Same is true of PS games too but don't let you nostalgia cloud your judgement, especially at $5 a pop.

 

[yoopoo]

Iwata will bring nukes at E3, its true.

 

[Ponn]

which statement made you LOL?

I think damn near every poster on this board would rather have every game released for NES, SNES and N64 collectively than every PS1 game. The NES or SNES catalogues alone would match up with the PS1.

And saying a mouse can do what the revmote can do is not just wrong, it's ignorant.

Can't I have both? Why must fanboys limit themselves so much. Argument is redundant.

 

[snatches]

Yes my XBL avatar proves my fanboy nature pffffft.

I will have both. I can still discuss which is superior without worrying about the poor fanboys.

 

[dark10x]

I think damn near every poster on this board would rather have every game released for NES, SNES and N64 collectively than every PS1 game. The NES or SNES catalogues alone would match up with the PS1.

In that case, sure, but I'd easily take every PS1 AND PS2 game over those other libraries.

 

[snatches]

In that case, sure, but I'd easily take every PS1 AND PS2 game over those other libraries.

Touche

PS2 library is pretty awesome. I wonder what Sony will charge for PS2 games though?

 

[Mrbob]

Well, look at my post history, we have been on the same side of a lot of debates. Today's announcements about Virtual Console tell me Nintendo is well on their way to a more successful service than XBLA, even if it is only because of Nintendo Legacy titles.

But why would a Rev owner ignore inexpensive third party downloads that show how cool their new Revmote is?

Ideas:

A day at the Lake : Fishing simulator, 2 player online co-op. $9.99

Real Swordplay : A basic swordfighting game, with multiplayer. $9.99

Duck Hunt Revolution : Speaks for itself. $9.99

It's all speculation, but it's more compelling than anything possible with arcade, by virtue of the interface alone.

I could give numerous other examples, but many have already been quoted on this and other forums.

Your examples, not too hot.

How about Texas Hold 'em Poker, which is sponsored and will be given away for free over XBLA? That could draw more gamers into the Live Arcade service. Or Uno coming to Live Arcade. Everyone knows and loves Uno, and online play added could be huge.

Dollar for dollar Virtual Console will more than likely do more sales. Reason for this is Nintendo's massive backlog. But this is a seperate issue than offering brand new indie games to consumers at a low price. Nintendo's console and portable history show that Nintendo games eat up the most sales. Then 3rd party sales from big name labels will come next because they are recognizable. Then indie games. The number of hands going into the virtual arcade pot seem much bigger than the XBLA pot when it comes to considering which platform an indie game will put their product on. Like I mentioned before, if the indie developer is smart, they'll find a way to see the product is on all three services. Supporting the Rev alone would be financial suicide for an indie developer, considering the history of Nintendo hardware and where software sales come from.

 

[John Harker]

I expect more tidbits of news once the interviews start rollin'.

There were TONS of interviews after last GDC.

And someones gotta eat lunch with the man and grill him nice and hard



That said, expect more vague, non-commital, wait-4-E3 drivel, ha

 

[xaosslug]

which statement made you LOL?

I think damn near every poster on this board would rather have every game released for NES, SNES and N64 collectively than every PS1 game. The NES or SNES catalogues alone would match up with the PS1.

Well, that you're not tagging all your absolute statements with "IMO" for starters. That NES, SNES, and N64's libraries mean SO much to you pesonally is great.

And saying a mouse can do what the revmote can do is not just wrong, it's ignorant.

:lol

 

[genjiZERO]

Yes my XBL avatar proves my fanboy nature pffffft.

I will have both. I can still discuss which is superior without worrying about the poor fanboys.

I'd like to have both too, but I think the NES/SNES etc will be a better selling point as Nintendo can easily make them cheaper to the consumer (simply, if not for other reasons, because they are smaller files). You could bundle every Mario game, and sell it for $10 (probably about 70megs or so). There's no way you could do something like that with PSX games, you'd be getting gig+ files.

 

[snatches]

Your examples, not too hot.

How about Texas Hold 'em Poker, which is sponsored and will be given away for free over XBLA? That could draw more gamers into the Live Arcade service. Or Uno coming to Live Arcade. Everyone knows and loves Uno, and online play added could be huge.

Dollar for dollar Virtual Console will more than likely do more sales. Reason for this is Nintendo's massive backlog. But this is a seperate issue than offering brand new indie games to consumers at a low price. Nintendo's console and portable history show that Nintendo games eat up the most sales. Then 3rd party sales from big name labels will come next because they are recognizable. Then indie games. The number of hands going into the virtual arcade pot seem much bigger than the XBLA pot when it comes to considering which platform an indie game will put their product on. Like I mentioned before, if the indie developer is smart, they'll find a way to see the product is on all three services. Supporting the Rev alone would be financial suicide for an indie developer, considering the history of Nintendo hardware and where software sales come from.

I agree with every thing you said (you calmed down, I guess although I would go virtually fishing with my Bro and probably have a blast. So I dig that idea.

Think about this though, how many new gamers are really being brought onto XBLA??? Only the hardcore (like us) are buying the 360 for $400. Right?

 

[Archie]

Can't I have both? Why must fanboys limit themselves so much. Argument is redundant.

You must be new to GAF.

Spoiler

jk, but you told me that when I said nearly the same thing in an old thread

 

[dark10x]

Touche

PS2 library is pretty awesome. I wonder what Sony will charge for PS2 games though?

I'd say PSX and PS2 games will continue to be sold as they are. I don't know if it was ever suggested or not, but downloadable PS2 games wouldn't be all that feasible. Nintendo can easily do it with those older machines as roms are generally very small.

Personally, I'd prefer the standard method of using physical discs purchased from a shop. The PSX is over 10 years old and games are still very easy to find on retail shelves. PS2 games should continue to be available for MANY years to come.

Some PSX games seem as if they will end up online for use on the PSP, but I don't think PS2 games will ever get there. Downloading 4gb games and storing them isn't going to be attractive to many. It's true that XBL demos are often quite large, but this is entirely different and would make the storage of these games a serious problem.

PS2 games will likely be sold as they always have been as will Gamecube discs for use on the Revolution, I'd imagine.

Think about this though, how many new gamers are really being brought onto XBLA??? Only the hardcore (like us) are buying the 360 for $400. Right?

Well, to be fair, the marketplace seems to be fairly popular. Some of the free demos available managed to garner over 200,000 downloads during the first few days of their availability. Considering the low cost of bringing most games to XBLA, grabbing a fraction of those same downloaders would yield good results. Plenty of people are downloading content via XBL right now. I gotta give MS credit here; 360 Live is EXTREMELY well done. They absolutely nailed it and I'm not entirely convinced that Sony and Nintendo will be able to match the quality of their service.

 

[BuzzJive]

Your examples, not too hot.

How about Texas Hold 'em Poker, which is sponsored and will be given away for free over XBLA? That could draw more gamers into the Live Arcade service. Or Uno coming to Live Arcade. Everyone knows and loves Uno, and online play added could be huge.

Yes - clearly poker and uno (both EASILY possible on the Rev) are hotter than fishing, duck hunt and sword fighting.

You're trying too hard to not like this news.

 

[John Harker]

How about an online World Gallery, where you can log into and walk around and everyone in the world can paint their own art using the Revmote and you can just stroll around this massive interactive Gallery and view everyones artwork and portraits and paintings and etc that are hanging on the walls, and their sculptures that are in the hallways, and communicate and share.

There can be specific wings of the Gallery, depending on the country your from and the art you like/make, and you can "buy" space in the Gallery to hang your artwork, and have lakes and gardens where you can fish or grow flowers on the outskirts, and just have this massive, peaceful, quiet community of art lovers.

WHO SAID GAMING ISNT ART?

Hey, I like my idea

 

[snatches]

Well, that you're not tagging all your absolute statements with "IMO" for starters. That NES, SNES, and N64's libraries mean SO much to you pesonally is great.



:lol

"IMO" on every post is redundant. If I'm posting it, it's my opinion, you can figure that out, right?

And again you laugh about the mouse/revmote comment. You do understand how the Revmote works, right? A mouse can not replicate its functionality. I'll bet you contribute another insightful :lol to this comment though, instead of explaining your self.

And yeah, you're probably right. I'm totally crazy for thinking

A Link to the Past
Ocarina of Time
Super Mario Bros. 1,2, and 3
Metroid and Super Metroid

Are some of the best games ever. I'm totally alone there. Most gamers think those games are trash. And those guys are smart.

 

[Mrbob]

The point of entry is $400 right now, but in a couple years time that price goes down. Plus Live Arcade has been a huge success, so production of releases is going to double. In a couple years time someone buying a X360 w/ hdd for $200 will have potentially 100s of games to choose from. Overall the marketplace has been a massive success.

Oh and Buzzjive you're trying too hard to try and pin on me that I don't like the Virtual Console, when I have not said that. Depending on the price of games, it will be the main reason I buy a Revolution.

 

[snatches]

Yes - clearly poker and uno (both EASILY possible on the Rev) are hotter than fishing, duck hunt and sword fighting.

You're trying too hard to not like this news.

Thanks, I thought I was drowning in a sea of denial on this board for a while there.

 

[snatches]

The point of entry is $400 right now, but in a couple years time that price goes down. Plus Live Arcade has been a huge success, so production of releases is going to double. In a couple years time someone buying a X360 w/ hdd for $200 will have potentially 100s of games to choose from. Overall the marketplace has been a massive success.

Oh and Buzzjive you're trying too hard to try and pin on me that I don't like the Virtual Console, when I have not said that. Depending on the price of games, it will be the main reason I buy a Revolution.

If the rumors are to be believed, it is possible that this will be possible on Rev by November, price and selection bolded.

 

[pestul]

I hope when they say "similar to iTunes" they mean 99c and $1.99 games. I want something a little better than the 512mb of storage for these purchased games too.

I'm as excited as everyone.. but this conference has taught me to take it a little easier on Sony for a change. Sony takes the brunt of the criticism, where as Nintendo basically has a free pass with Rev.

 

[snatches]

I hope when they say "similar to iTunes" they mean 99c and $1.99 games. I want something a little better than the 512mb of storage for these purchased games too.

I'm as excited as everyone.. but this conference has taught me to take it a little easier on Sony for a change. Sony takes the brunt of the criticism, where as Nintendo basically has a free pass with Rev.

LOL. You are complaining about Sony taking the brunt of criticism..........on GAF?????

:lol

 

[Diablos]

Harrison reveals PS3 games will be region-free. (Article)

Whoa. I was not expecting something like this. Especially from SONY.

So... if a PAL gamer puts an NTSC PS1/PS2/PS3 game in his PS3, will it be playable? And by playable, I mean, able to be viewed properly? Ditto for me playing a PAL game.

A move like this only tells me that Sony is serious about not modding. They are doing everything they can to keep the gamer from wanting to mod their PS3.

Since PS3 is region free for games, it makes it damn near impossible for modchip vendors to say they are selling the chips to simply allow discs from other regions, purchased legitimately, to be played. PS3 modchips will be widely viewed as being used *exclusively* for piracy and other illegal software modifications. The modchip market may very well be doomed because they don't have as much of a defense, plus people who only used modchips in the past for strictly importing aren't going to bother with one now (obviously).

Then again, if this is only for PS3 games, people will still want to play their PS1/PS2 imports and backups. But that would be kind of ridiculous to mod your PS3 to play games from other regions or backups if the games aren't even for PS3.

 

[gimz]

sorry if asked, so no news about release date of NDSL in North America?

 

[Squeak]

And saying a mouse can do what the revmote can do is not just wrong, it's ignorant.

How's that? Have you tested it personally? :lol
It could very well be just as precise, as a good optical mouse (which it most likely resembles in basic tech-principles).

 

[gofreak]

This region free thing seems to be reported very differently at different sites. I'm more inclined to believe reports like this, from the Harrison Q+A:

http://www.gamers.com/?run=news&news_id=5702

Harrison responded in a rather interesting way – “The things that make a console region free are different from what makes games region free.” Voltage differences, plug styles and that sort of thing mean that there will naturally be different SKUs for different regions. But at the same time, software will be region free. It’s possible for developers to enforce whatever encoding and format limitations they want. “If they want to divide it, that’s their choice. But the concept is that content is region free.”

It is up to publishers!

 

[Larry Bird]

How's that? Have you tested it personally? :lol
It could very well be just as precise, as a good optical mouse (which it most likely resembles in basic tech-principles).

Whoa whoa! Friendly fire!

 

[Diablos]

This region free thing seems to be reported very differently at different sites. I'm more inclined to believe reports like this, from the Harrison Q+A:

http://www.gamers.com/?run=news&news_id=5702

It is up to publishers!

Question: Is this because of cost? I would imagine it costs more to have seperate production for the same game across different regions, than it would be to just make x amount of games region-free and ship them across the globe. So a dev with not as much money (or any dev that just wants to save money) could go with the region-free approach?

 

[xaosslug]

How's that? Have you tested it personally? :lol
It could very well be just as precise, as a good optical mouse (which it most likely resembles in basic tech-principles).

Now now, I'm sure snatches' friend did and then gave snatches impressions.

 

[Squeak]

Whoa whoa! Friendly fire!

Uhm, maybe I misread it. It could also mean that revmote can do so much more than a mouse?

 

[jetpacks was yes]

How's that? Have you tested it personally? :lol
It could very well be just as precise, as a good optical mouse (which it most likely resembles in basic tech-principles).

Eh? A mouse works on an x/y axis, while the revmote works on x/y/z. Three-dimensional control versus two-dimensional control is a pretty big difference.

 

[radioheadrule83]

computerandvideogames got it wrong.

I'm thrilled with the new Zelda -- CVG along with other sites suckered me into hoping for more.

I am interested in Iwata saying that people will know and experience what they mean with disruptive play in the next few weeks. Hopefully he's not just talking about releases of Brain Age etc... didn't Matt at IGN say we'd see Revolution games BEFORE E3?

 

[snatches]

Now now, I'm sure snatches' friend did and then gave snatches impressions.

What the hell is wrong with you....really? do you want to discuss this? Go to post 719 and give me an intelligent answer, or are you afraid?

You know that thread that everyone likes to take shots at me for, the post after I gave my friend's impressions I put a disclaimer in that the guy thought NFS: MW was awesome. Then I laughed at him and said take it with a grain of salt. But it is the joke du jour copout from jerkoffs and Sonybots that think that discredits my opinion. For you people: believe what you want to believe.

As it is, the impressions of Warhawk from GDC are mixed, but that isn't what this is about for you is it.....

You just want to come into a thread and attack me, is that it? Well we have all read first hand accounts from legitimate sources claiming the Revmote is an exceptional device, including from MarkMacD, a poster of this board. He used it, and loved it. As far as comparing it to a mouse goes, any person with half a brain and basic reading comprehension will tell you it does things a mouse can't. Like sense your position in a 3d space, and many other things that have been covered in great depth by many legitimate sources.

But you don't want to discuss it do you? You just want to point and laugh and not justify your opinion with any actual words. Go ahead, try and convince me how a mouse could be substituted for a Revmote, as your post claims it can. Or can you?

 

[gofreak]

As it is, the impressions of Warhawk from GDC are mixed, but that isn't what this is about for you is it.....

They're less mixed the more I read, tbh..(and in a good way).

On another Warhawk note, just a slight correction to what I said earlier about them using Cell for the cloud rendering - they're using a "cluster of SPUs" for this rather than just one as I said earlier. The total, direct quote from the Incog guy is:

These clouds I'm flying through right now are being rendered using a volumetric software ray-tracer running on another cluster of SPUs, and really this is a paradigm shift for us, because it is the first time we are mixing Cell-based software rendering, with RSX-based hardware rendering. Certainly, you don't need to use the Cell for software rendering, you can do so if you choose. The RSX has plenty of power on its own - consider for example these Capital ships I'm flying around. They have certain materials that are orders of magnitude more complex than anything we could have done on the Playstation2. They feature color maps, ambient occlusion maps, parallax maps, dynamic shadows, point lights. All of these things are being rendered by RSX in true high definition, all of it being rendered at 4xAA.

 

[Beowvlf]

19:37: "Some people put their money on the screen; we decided to put ours on the game interface" - although producing the controller will be expensive, he says.

A warning/hint about price?

I'm surprised no one has even addressed this? I remember someone awhile back (I think it was Mrbob) made a point that we really have no idea how much this controller may cost Nintendo, and that we shouldn't be too certain to get $199 or lower.

This quote from Iwata seems to hint that may very well be the case. Thoughts?

Anyways, the VC news is cool, but I'm disappointed at the lack of enthusiasm beyond 'it's different, please support it' Nintendo is putting forth for the REV. If the recent news bits about the dev kits are true, that means devs are still only now receiving the initial kits that are designed to get them familiarized with the controller. And with launch possibly only 6-8 months away...

I really think they should've showed a few tech demos and game mockups that utilize the controller beyond most people's initial gimmicky ideas. Nothing is better than showing someone a physical example, and it would've put to rest any negative connotations some may have about whether the controller is even capable of doing certain things (I'm not assuming that thought is definitely there, just saying it very well could be).

 

[Squeak]

Eh? A mouse works on an x/y axis, while the revmote works on x/y/z. Three-dimensional control versus two-dimensional control is a pretty big difference.

You don't have to use the z axis. Most likely the most common use of the controller will be like a kind of virtual laserpointer, that you can nuge around with you fingertips, just like a mouse.

 

[Mrbob]

If the rumors are to be believed, it is possible that this will be possible on Rev by November, price and selection bolded.

What if Rev is $299.99 and not $199.99? Too much of the Rev is not concrete and revolves around speculation.

I've mentioned all along the controller setup would not be cheap to produce. Looks like Iwata just said the same thing.

 

[PkunkFury]

I'm surprised no one has even addressed this? I remember someone awhile back (I think it was Mrbob) made a point that we really have no idea how much this controller may cost Nintendo, and that we shouldn't be too certain to get $199 or lower.

This quote from Iwata seems to hint that may very well be the case. Thoughts?

similar devices sell for 30-60 dollars, so it's safe to say they are aiming for somewhere in that range. It is possible we'll be paying a bit more than we expect for our extra controllers, but I'm sure Nintendo will eat as much of the cost as possible in order to get multiplayer games moving. Hopefully only one sensor bar is necessary for multiple controllers, as that could cut down on cost a bit.

Considering how much the wirelss 360 controllers are selling for, I don't thing Nintendo will see much of a problem competition wise.

And I can't believe people here still think the controller is the same as a mouse...

 

[snatches]

What if Rev is $299.99 and not $199.99?

I've mentioned all along the controller setup would not be cheap to produce. Looks like Iwata just said the same thing.

Then it wouldn't sell nearly as well. Dollars invested in R&D could have been what he is referring to. I think they will leverage DS success to ensure the Rev doesn't sell for a penny over $249. If they wan't to really appeal to a broader market they need to be at $199, and I think they will hit this price for launch.

 

[Phoenix]

This region free thing seems to be reported very differently at different sites. I'm more inclined to believe reports like this, from the Harrison Q+A:

http://www.gamers.com/?run=news&news_id=5702



It is up to publishers!

Not really, its a largely misinterpreted statement. What was actually said is that publishers can fit all of the regional content for a game on one BRD. Thus there would be no need for multiple versions. At the end of the day, the publisher still has the ability to decide whether or not they want a SKU for multiple regions or not - Sony doesn't really control that.

Vindication...

 

[gimz]

You don't have to use the z axis. Most likely the most common use of the controller will be like a kind of virtual laserpointer, that you can nuge around with you fingertips, just like a mouse.

well you don't have now or in the past, but now we are talking about revolution, no body would guess Nintendo make a controller like a remote before, and you can't think of a way to use the z axis doesnt mean nintendo can't, so Nintendo > you :lol

 

[snatches]

You don't have to use the z axis. Most likely the most common use of the controller will be like a kind of virtual laserpointer, that you can nuge around with you fingertips, just like a mouse.

You are assuming that Nintendo won't exploit the advantages of their own device? Prepare for ownage.

 

[gimz]

You are assuming that Nintendo won't exploit the advantages of their own device? Prepare for ownage.

thats what i said to him/her too :lol

 

[PkunkFury]

You don't have to use the z axis. Most likely the most common use of the controller will be like a kind of virtual laserpointer, that you can nuge around with you fingertips, just like a mouse.

A mouse has 2 degrees of freedom

The rev remote has 6

 

[Phoenix]

Question: Is this because of cost? I would imagine it costs more to have seperate production for the same game across different regions, than it would be to just make x amount of games region-free and ship them across the globe. So a dev with not as much money (or any dev that just wants to save money) could go with the region-free approach?

There are a variety of legal reasons why you would want to do this. Not all countries have the same laws regarding content (one of the reasons which region encoding works the way it does), intellectual property, licenses, etc. As such you most certainly want to have the option to do what you need to to work around issues. Its great that PS3 is region free - but then again, the SNES was region free once you neutered it by popping that plastic prong that stopped Japanese titles from fitting in US consoles.

 

[xaosslug]

What the hell is wrong with you....really? do you want to discuss this? Go to post 719 and give me an intelligent answer, or are you afraid?

You know that thread that everyone likes to take shots at me for, the post after I gave my friend's impressions I put a disclaimer in that the guy thought NFS: MW was awesome. Then I laughed at him and said take it with a grain of salt. But it is the joke du jour copout from jerkoffs and Sonybots that think that discredits my opinion. For you people: believe what you want to believe.

As it is, the impressions of Warhawk from GDC are mixed, but that isn't what this is about for you is it.....

You just want to come into a thread and attack me, is that it? Well we have all read first hand accounts from legitimate sources claiming the Revmote is an exceptional device, including from MarkMacD, a poster of this board. He used it, and loved it. As far as comparing it to a mouse goes, any person with half a brain and basic reading comprehension will tell you it does things a mouse can't. Like sense your position in a 3d space, and many other things that have been covered in great depth by many legitimate sources.

But you don't want to discuss it do you? You just want to point and laugh and not justify your opinion with any actual words. Go ahead, try and convince me how a mouse could be substituted for a Revmote, as your post claims it can. Or can you?

Chill, Gidget! I'm not out to attack you, not at all. I just thought your comments were ridiculously absolute statements that were all in YOUR own opinion, which as most message board posters know should be marked as such.

YOU think: "NES, SNES, and N64 library >>>>>>> PSone library"

YOU think: "saying a mouse can do what the revmote can do is not just wrong, it's ignorant."

Not everybody thinks that. Some, maybe most, but not all.

 

[jetpacks was yes]

You don't have to use the z axis. Most likely the most common use of the controller will be like a kind of virtual laserpointer, that you can nuge around with you fingertips, just like a mouse.

"Most likely"? That's a pretty big assumption there.

 

[antipode]

It is a little disappointing we didn't get to see more of the Revmote. People still keep saying things in this thread like "the Revmote can track position in 3D space" that are both technically implausible (in that it is hard to think of how such a depth sensor would be built) and socially implausible (in that if such a device existed it would probably be used by neurosurgical residencies before videogame consoles.)

It highlights that we really don't publicly know what the Revmote tracks other than the obvious yaw and possibly pitch and roll - it may just roughly track some acceleration in the z-coordinate, for example. But those details will make a big difference in how we will play games.

A mouse has 2 degrees of freedom

The rev remote has 6

Case in point.