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[Compsiox]

The reality is we don't know what's going on in 343. There definitely should be changes but lets not pretend we know who should be fired.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

If the rumored budget, $500 million, holds any truth or even half of that, 343i are pure thieves (or at least the ones with the big decisions).

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

I feel like both the Gears & Halo brand are tarnished at this point. They are games that were huge franchises when I was younger but in today's time in the hands of people who aren't the original creators, both series have fell flat ever since.

This is Microsoft's fault for relying so much on the proven franchises back when they were hot and never innovating and creating new ips to carry the torch when they would lose their star power. Now look at where they are today, crossing their fingers that these new studios can put out some real quality 1st party games in the next 2-3 years, it's insane and terribly poor planning on their part.

 

[FunkMiller]

The entire “Diversity” push is an idealogical hellhole that falls apart upon inspection. Since when are ideas distributed differently based on skin color/gender/ethnicity? That in itself is so unbelievably stupid (and has no basis in neuroscience, by the way) and actually, prejudiced. The very notion is saying “Black people have different ideas because they have black skin and that means their brains are different than other people”. Uh. What?

343i is a beautiful example of how a “diversity” priority in hiring ruins your company by removing the focus on hiring the very most talented people, regardless of skin color/gender identity/religion, and instead filling a blanket, predetermined quota of physical appearances/sexes.

Hiring people based on anything but skill and talent is fucking idiotic.

The problem is incredibly skilled and talented people of ethnic origin or alternative sexuality don’t get the chances that they should do. That’s where the problem lies. This SJW notion of hiring based on skin tone or who you like to fuck does nothing to address the actual problems, which are far harder to grapple with.

There’s nothing more racist or bigoted in this world than well meaning, stupid white people with low expectations of other races, genders, and sexual preferences.

 

[IbizaPocholo]

Bonnie Ross is the main problem.

 

[Cert.in.Death]

after running a whole franchise into the ground, that's absolutely a valid request.

imagine a UPS driver that manages to somehow break the insides of most of the packages he delivers. and continues to do so even tho he had years of customer feedback to be more fucking careful.
how could you argue against people that want to see that guy fired after breaking all the shit they ordered?

Two issues:

1) Your analogy doesn't correspond because it attempts to equivocate two scenarios that are fundamentally different. Creative products are not known quantities (static goods do not vary or should not, innately) and your dissatisfaction with its condition upon arrival is not indicative of its quality but your overall experience. Destroyed goods and negative product experiences are not the same.

2) It's not our place as consumers to dictate who should be running the studios that produce the games we wish to play outside of the purchase decision. As fans, virtually none of us have access to the requisite information to determine whether a person hindered or salvaged a development project, nor are we aware what a person might bring to future endeavors. Questioning and even being vocally opposed to somebody at a particular place of employ is permissible, but taking discreet steps on incomplete information to request somebody be removed because we are dissatisfied with the end product is fallacious. An employee at a creative studio should be managed by those who have a vested interest and whose profession it is to ensure employees achieve the highest grade output possible.

 

[Hudo]

Joseph Staten works at Microsoft's gaming division, right? Let him save Halo and get Marty O'Donnell on board as well.

 

[NickFire]

Considering 343 has, in my opinion, just kicked Series X/S right in the balls before the start of a countless billion dollar retail competition, I think calling for shake ups here is certainly appropriate. There is no way to deny they failed at what MS needed from them IMO. The only possible excuse that I can envision would be top brass at MS demanding huge changes when there wasn't enough time to really pull them off. Having not heard anything of the sort, I assume this was 343's screw up.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

Microsoft seems to have a very lazy and hands off approach with their first party studios that they call creative freedom. I think it's the reason they put out way more mediocre games than Nintendo and Sony.

 

[ExpandKong]

I am not onboard for demanding people get fired. Healthy criticism and acknowledging failings/shortcomings is fair game, but when you stray into requesting they lose their job, that's a line crossed IMO.

I mean, personally, I'm not gonna start a petition or a Twitter harassment campaign over it or anything. I'm not demanding anything, but I'm saying that if I were Phil or someone else high up at Microsoft/XBox I'd be spending a lot of time at 343i right about now seeing if there's anyone there that'd be capable of stepping up and filling those roles from within the company.

Basically I'm not going to demand that anybody lose their job, but I am going to wonder what it'll take for them to lose their jobs at this point. The franchise that allowed Microsoft to gain a solid foothold in the videogame industry has, under 343i's care, gone from a shell of its former self to a laughingstock, and now their incompetence is likely going to negatively affect the launch of their new console. Heads should be rolling at this point.

 

[SpartanN92]

I mean, personally, I'm not gonna start a petition or a Twitter harassment campaign over it or anything. I'm not demanding anything, but I'm saying that if I were Phil or someone else high up at Microsoft/XBox I'd be spending a lot of time at 343i right about now seeing if there's anyone there that'd be capable of stepping up and filling those roles from within the company.

Basically I'm not going to demand that anybody lose their job, but I am going to wonder what it'll take for them to lose their jobs at this point. The franchise that allowed Microsoft to gain a solid foothold in the videogame industry has, under 343i's care, gone from a shell of its former self to a laughingstock, and now their incompetence is likely going to negatively affect the launch of their new console. Heads should be rolling at this point.

You phrased it really well. I'm not demanding anything, this is just my suggestion and what I would do if I were Phil Spencer. Make of it what you will.

 

[Camreezie]

Microsoft seems to have a very lazy and hands off approach with their first party studios that they call creative freedom. I think it's the reason they put out way more medicine games than Nintendo and Sony.

Yeah lazy and hands off when it comes to internal studios and then micromanage the shit out of external and get situations like Crackdown 3 and Scalebound

 

[Iorv3th]

I think it is time for Phil Spencer to take a very hard look at 343's leadership team and consider replacing them. 343i was founded in 2007 shortly after the Bungie separation. Since then they have made the following games:
*Halo Combat Evolved: Anniversary 2011: Outsource project by Saber Interactive, it was fine except for questionable artistic style choices. Turning Reach's multiplayer into the CE:A multiplayer was lazy.

It wasn't fine if you played online at all. For some reason online you literally could not play some levels.

343 has been shit for its entire existence and needs better management.

 

[SpartanN92]

It wasn't fine if you played online at all. For some reason online you literally could not play some levels.

343 has been shit for its entire existence and needs better management.

Oh I remember the Co-Op was atrocious. To do the Co-Op achievements I had to LAN.

 

[Eevee86]

I tend to think that 'Five strikes and you're out', is more than fair. It really has been a decade of 343 not just failing to live up to, but egregiously ruining the franchise.

How many more chances are we going to give them?

The only thing I'm hesitant on, is Infinite looking like the best Halo in forever, in terms of gameplay. It actually looked fun, engaging to explore, and really well done. It's just that they had to completely screw up (possibly affecting an entire platform this time, not just Halo) once again on the visuals.

It did look fun, but I'm worried about how long Halo's gameplay in an open world will remain that way. I sort of imagine every mission or objective going pretty much the same way, go here, kill everything, and hit a button.

 

[WatDat]

Video Games are SERIOUS FUCKING BUSINESS.

 

[PresetError]

I don't know what 343's internal initiatives and policies are, but I do know Ross has spent a lot of time in the past year or two on the diversity circuit talking up her grrrl power.

One and a half minutes of nothing but BS.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Im sure they know it but have hampered themselves by going all in on muh female leader and muh diversity. When you put those things at the top of your hiring requirements then more likely than not you won’t have the best staff.

 

[stitch1]

I'm not normally one to call for someone to be fired. But at what point do you hold someone accountable. Bonnie Ross should at the very least be replaced.

 

[VN1X]

My post got DELETED because of needing to "dial back the theatrics".

The amount of irony makes my head spin considering the OP and thread title.

 

[Solrac]

 

[MasterCornholio]

If the rumored budget, $500 million, holds any truth or even half of that, 343i are pure thieves (or at least the ones with the big decisions).

I read about a theory that they burnt that money by restarting the project several times.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Look... diversity is our strength... the future is female!

 

[SpartanN92]

My post got DELETED because of needing to "dial back the theatrics".

The amount of irony makes my head spin considering the OP and thread title.

I made a clear and succinct argument with examples of their poor output. How many failures will it take?
I’m not demanding anyone to be fired, but it is my opinion that the leadership at 343 needs restructuring/replacement.
Remember Balmer/Mattrick? We are at that point with Bonnie Ross.

I don’t remember your thread. Refresh my memory. Halo threads are moving so quickly nowadays it’s hard to keep them memorized.

 

[aries_71]

They have to be replaced, if only as a fundamental hygiene procedure. You can’t have people 13 years in the same leadership position without having everything become stagnant.

At this point Halo is probably dead as a big franchise, and the Xbox brand seriously damaged. MS will end up going cloud gaming.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I read about a theory that they burnt that money by restarting the project several times.

That could be it, as Sony as well burned around $100 million pre-production phase, Sony were pretty patient with him, and I think the actually project cost around $80 million or so. Cory expressed that on the interviews and how many times he tricked them to use more expensive stuff into the game, and it paid back massively as we know.

 

[VN1X]

I don’t remember your thread. Refresh my memory. Halo threads are moving so quickly nowadays it’s hard to keep them memorized.

I didn't make a thread but simply pointed out how 90% of this board is about Halo. So it might be time for me to go elsewhere.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Is this real? This studio has no men at all? Well, I think that spoiled $500 million budget has been spent on shopping rather than building the game.

 

[TheRaidenPT]

I have to agree Microsoft has been sinking money into Infinity for 6 years and there’s no results.

However I partly blame Microsoft for allowing themselves to be SCAMMED this hard.

I mean how come they haven’t seen game builds to see how bad it is?

 

[Codswallop_]

Not sure about the others, but looking at everything Halo 4 on it's hard to come away with the impression that Frank O'Conner is doing a good job as franchise director. Halo 5 was another low point for the series, but even then he seemed more concerned with arguing about political bullshit online.

 

[MasterCornholio]

That could be it, as Sony as well burned around $100 million pre-production phase, Sony were pretty patient with him, and I think the actually project cost around $80 or so. Cory expressed that on the interviews and how many times he tricked them to use more expensive stuff into the game, and it paid back massively as we know.

It's also why I don't think the game was ready after 5 years of development.

No offense to Cory because I loved GoW but I don't think his game was as complicated as what 343 are trying to do with Halo Infinite. Combine the complexity of the game with the incompetence of the staff and you will end up with what we saw. And in addition to that im pretty sure Microsoft made some bad decisions with the game as well. Maybe they gave 343 to much freedom or they could have been asking them for to much.

 

[SpartanN92]

I didn't make a thread but simply pointed out how 90% of this board is about Halo. So it might be time for me to go elsewhere.

It will die down. Just give it some time.

 

[TheRaidenPT]

Is this real? This studio has no men at all? Well, I think that spoiled $500 million budget has been spent on shopping rather than building the game.

 

[MasterCornholio]

It will die down. Just give it some time.

Hopefully the next time they show us the game it looks much better. If it doesn't Gaf will just blow up again.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

It's also why I don't think the game was ready after 5 years of development.

No offense to Cory because I loved GoW but I don't think his game was as complicated as what 343 are trying to do with Halo Infinite. Combine the complexity of the game with the incompetence of the staff and you will end up with what we saw. And in addition to that im pretty sure Microsoft made some bad decisions with the game as well. Maybe they gave 343 to much freedom or they could have been asking them for to much.

Not sure about the complexity of the game yet, it's not as ambitious as Star Citizen (still a flop so far) or let's say Beyond Good and Evil 2. We know you can visit every spot in that ring, but how big it is? That's still unknown so we can't compare. GOW was extremely complicated with how many things trigger a dialogue or so, it's so seamless and dense. So far, it's the pinnacle of gaming.

Halo doesn't need to reach that to satisfy the fans, they need a decent SP and solid MP and gameplay along with graphics reflective of next gen.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Much of the hate around this studio here has to be political. My politics don't align with the studio but I can separate politics from entertainment. Who would you replace them with? That woke shit is baked into MS.

I had to mute some MS people I was following after the George Floyd fiasco. If they had any color in their skin, they were insufferable to listen to. Anyone fired by MS would be replaced by another woke Seattle drone.

You just described every western video game developer.

 

[cireza]

I don't know these people but from the pictures they don't exactly look like geniuses.

You look quite knowledgeable. What does a genius look like ?

 

[MasterCornholio]

Not sure about the complexity of the game yet, it's not as ambitious as Star Citizen (still a flop so far) or let's say Beyond Good and Evil 2. We know you can visit every spot in that ring, but how big it is? That's still unknown so we can't compare. GOW was extremely complicated with how many things trigger a dialogue or so, it's so seamless and dense. So far, it's the pinnacle of gaming.

Halo doesn't need to reach that to satisfy the fans, they need a decent SP and solid MP and gameplay along with graphics reflective of next gen.

What I mean is that they probably planned for the game to be alot more and are struggling to reach their goals. Not to mention the multiplayer, that it's supposed to be a next gen showcase and that it's supposed to last 10 years.

Seems like a pretty huge project and I'm not sure if 343 can handle it.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Is this real? This studio has no men at all? Well, I think that spoiled $500 million budget has been spent on shopping rather than building the game.

No. That’s their diversity photo. Showing that they aren’t only white males.

lol

 

[Skullkid94700]

I agree on a restructure, and you made your points well.

IMO, We need to see a few things in the future to give more faith in the Halo brand. MP beta for Infinite would be great, Halo 5 MP on PC (couldnt care less about singleplayer there, and we all know why; not just forge, but also Warzone and Fire Fight), Vidocs exploring why things are the way they are in game and at 343i, and a promise on free updates/DLC for Infinite. A roadmap would make a great showing for them in the news cycle as well. Those things would go a long way to create trust in both the brand and the studio.

 

[Solrac]

Is this real? This studio has no men at all? Well, I think that spoiled $500 million budget has been spent on shopping rather than building the game.

completely real

 

[Bo_Hazem]

No. That’s their diversity photo. Showing that they aren’t only white males.

lol

Isn't having white men part of diversity? I was shocked by EA censoring "white man" from their chat on BF5, saw that on Angry Joe's review. One of the most racist things I've seen in gaming history.

 

[TLZ]

Yeah probably, most annoying thing is that they all get big fat severance packages and golden parachutes to other companies. If any of us are incompetent in end product in our jobs we are shit-canned with zero anything!

I worked for a huge forbes500 company and the CEO was let go due to poor performance and the rumour internally was he got 3 years salary (which was over 50 million dollars) for stepping down!

Where is the risk for them to do the best they can when the safety net will catch them and a big bag of money will break their fall!

So if you ever land one of these jobs, you'd happily get fired and be set for life.

 

[Vawn]

With all their transgender employees, I figured this guy would LOVE 343.

 

[Cert.in.Death]

I mean, personally, I'm not gonna start a petition or a Twitter harassment campaign over it or anything. I'm not demanding anything, but I'm saying that if I were Phil or someone else high up at Microsoft/XBox I'd be spending a lot of time at 343i right about now seeing if there's anyone there that'd be capable of stepping up and filling those roles from within the company.

Basically I'm not going to demand that anybody lose their job, but I am going to wonder what it'll take for them to lose their jobs at this point. The franchise that allowed Microsoft to gain a solid foothold in the videogame industry has, under 343i's care, gone from a shell of its former self to a laughingstock, and now their incompetence is likely going to negatively affect the launch of their new console. Heads should be rolling at this point.

You and I agree.

Personally I felt the need to reorganize was needed after Halo 4 (still baffled they decided to kill the Didact in such a bitch-ass way).

 

[tillbot8]

So it you ever land one of these jobs, you'd happily get fired and be set for life.

Yeah, I suppose I would! People in them positions are usually very driven with high IQs and happy to work 90 hour weeks, I'm not outright dismissing the people who worked their asses off to get there, just that if anything goes wrong the damage is minimal in the grand scheme for them! I don't think there is anything I said which is particularly controversial?

 

[TLZ]

completely real

 

[TLZ]

Yeah, I suppose I would! People in them positions are usually very driven with high IQs and happy to work 90 hour weeks, I'm not outright dismissing the people who worked their asses off to get there, just that if anything goes wrong the damage is minimal in the grand scheme for them! I don't think there is anything I said which is particularly controversial?

Nothing controversial mate. I totally agree with you. In fact, I think they should have even bigger risks than their employees since they're in charge and have the biggest responsibility.

 

[tillbot8]

'Ohhh put her back in she's not done yet'

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Most of these women must fucking hate Halo, it being such a juvenile male power fantasy. But anything to pay the bills.