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Sony Q2 FY 2011 Financial Results - 3.7M PS3s Ship, $350M Net Loss For Full Company

hirokazu

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BattleMonkey said:
Europe + USA are big markets on their own, but Japan is not the only other market. Lot of territories are constantly forgotten when people think of WW numbers and it adds up to quite a bit.
Indeed, some people are to quick to judge certain regions as representative of everything or place importance on them. At the end of the day, "other" regions aren't as important as North America, sure, but this is a thread about worldwide sales, not which regions matter.

zero_suit said:
Nope, not even close.
I think he means in the same period of time from 2006 onwards, not relative since launch.
 

Xilium

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May 20, 2009
2,114
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goomba said:
How do Sony get away with the "worlds largest console maker " title when they have sold far less than the Wii ?.
Overall, Sony has sold more home consoles than any other console manufacturer through the years . They are probably going by that metric.
 

guek

Banned
Apr 27, 2011
18,685
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Sony posted another loss? Whoop de doo, Basil.

Sony is one of those companies I just don't really care for any more. I dislike their TVs, their computers, their cameras, and I really dislike the direction they went with the PS3. The PS2 was a great platform on really shitty hardware.

I guess I'd rather they fixed their internal problems and put out superior products though so here's to hoping they bring in some profits soon.
 

Carl

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Sep 6, 2007
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Cipherr said:
Would they really care? Considering the positions last gen, I would imagine even if the PS3 passes the 360 WW, MS wont really bat an eye. From duking it out with the GC one gen and barely nabbing 2nd place while the Sony ran away with the gen, to at worst, equaling Sony pretty much this gen.

Im sure the Xbox fanboys will pitch a fit when the PS3 takes second, but I cant imagine MS being very upset with themselves this gen. They fucked up horribly at the start, and still made a game of it.

Considering how many times Mattrick bangs on about how they're going to outsell the PS3 this year or by the end of the gen... yes.
 

hirokazu

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guek said:
Sony posted another loss? Whoop de doo, Basil.

Sony is one of those companies I just don't really care for any more. I dislike their TVs, their computers, their cameras, and I really dislike the direction they went with the PS3. The PS2 was a great platform on really shitty hardware.

I guess I'd rather they fixed their internal problems and put out superior products though so here's to hoping they bring in some profits soon.
I think their TVs are pretty neat, not that I follow the TV market much...?
 

[Nintex]

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Jun 21, 2005
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Sony just keeps losing money and there's no end to the bleeding anytime soon. Samsung is making some serious cash right now if they went ahead and made their own $100 cheaper HD game machine they could be a worthy competitor but Samsung knows that's not where the money is.

Sony has their fingers in too many pies, they should refocus but I don't think ditching the TV divison like some propose here is the solution. HP also decided to roll back the decision of selling the PC division. I could see them sell Sony Pictures though, because there's certainly an interested buyer.

Tylahedras said:
MS will not let Sony surpass them WW before they launch the next machine. So at this rate they will have to release the 720 by holiday 2012 to be sure that won't happen. Color me surprised, I had them pegged for 2013, these numbers changed my mind.
The drop off for Kinect is also evidence for this. I'm still in the 720 in 2012 camp, they have a game (Halo 4) and they probably have hardware cooking.
 

specialguy

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Feb 17, 2011
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I'll still say no guarantee they'll get there at all. Far too many factors in play. If Microsoft can hold them off a few more months I'm sure they'll have a price cut of their own perhaps in spring to maybe change the math. Maybe. And even if MS falls behind there's nothing saying they couldn't retake the lead.

Microsoft messed up by not matching Sony's 50 cut. That's pretty much why they're losing ground right now, the last few quarters they'd held up quite well. I dont understand it, Sony is the one losing money hand over fist and MS is the one being tightwad.

Anyways, looks like PS3 division ended a recent string of profits, lost 449 million http://www.gamezone.com/news/sony-posts-449-million-in-losses-following-playstation-3-price-drop almost half a bil.

Only now it's a big division with many products, I know. Still. Was there any other PS3 profitability mentions on perhaps the conference call or anything like that?

Anyways, the real difference is mostly just down to Japan. Even the GAF recent worldwide sales thread, if you add up USA+EU, Xbox wins, slightly. The -800k WW YTD is due to -1.1m in Japan YTD.

Since most software of interest to a western gamer comes from western devs, and most western software does not sell in Japan rendering PS3 hardware sales in Japan irrelevant to EA, Activision, I think Japan is a bit of an isolated island.
 

specialguy

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Feb 17, 2011
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[Nintex] said:
Sony just keeps losing money and there's no end to the bleeding anytime soon. Samsung is making some serious cash right now if they went ahead and made their own $100 cheaper HD game machine they could be a worthy competitor but Samsung knows that's not where the money is.

Yeah, I think Microsoft has it easy going against Sony and Nintendo. A Samsung or Apple would crush them...
 

offshore

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Carl said:
Considering how many times Mattrick bangs on about how they're going to outsell the PS3 this year or by the end of the gen... yes.
 

specialguy

Banned
Feb 17, 2011
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People predicting Xbox Next rushed to 2012 because of this, get real. You think these giant corporations even care which one has nominal "second place"?

It doesn't change anything, what they care about is strategy, profits. If MS wanted to hold second so bad they could just match or exceed Sony's 50 cut. By not doing it they just stack up more profits. Which is more important? On a message board we're all worried about second place bragging rights. In a corporate boardroom they'd rather add up a few more suitcases of cash (as would we, if it was our money).

Further, there are virtually no third party exclusives anymore, and pretty much all third party games are multiplatform now, and that wont change either. Neither is in danger if losing third party support, so it's all a bit irrelevant. Fun to argue over and I do it with the best of em, but dont lose sight of the big picture.
 

hirokazu

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specialguy said:
Yeah, I think Microsoft has it easy going against Sony and Nintendo. A Samsung or Apple would crush them...
Apple would take a completely different strategy though. I don't think they'd care to make a dedicated games machine. Like the iPod touch, iPhone and iPad are said to be eating into the handheld markets without Apple really doing anything. I'd imagine any sort of competition from Apple to come from an Apple TV revamp that allows apps, or their rumoured actual TV.

Samsung doesn't have any experience in consoles as far as I know. I think the barriers of entry to making a successful console are pretty high, unless you have established relations with third parties publishers already. I don't think it's as simple as saying "Look at how profitable Samsung is, they'd totally crush Sony if they were to get into the games business."

specialguy said:
People predicting Xbox Next rushed to 2012 because of this, get real. You think these giant corporations even care which one has nominal "second place"?

It doesn't change anything, what they care about is strategy, profits. If MS wanted to hold second so bad they could just match or exceed Sony's 50 cut. By not doing it they just stack up more profits. Which is more important? On a message board we're all worried about second place bragging rights. In a corporate boardroom they'd rather add up a few more suitcases of cash (as would we, if it was our money).

Further, there are virtually no third party exclusives anymore, and pretty much all third party games are multiplatform now, and that wont change either. Neither is in danger if losing third party support, so it's all a bit irrelevant. Fun to argue over and I do it with the best of em, but dont lose sight of the big picture.
Yeah, I don't think this is as big a deal as people make it out to be for Microsoft. It's just fun for us to sit and watch given how close they are at the moment. Sony is just at the point now where PS3 may or may not surpass 360 by the end of the generation, but it could go either way.
 

Sydle

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Oct 13, 2006
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specialguy said:
Microsoft messed up by not matching Sony's 50 cut. That's pretty much why they're losing ground right now, the last few quarters they'd held up quite well. I dont understand it, Sony is the one losing money hand over fist and MS is the one being tightwad.

Guessing that Microsoft doesn't see a strong need to cut since they've owned NPD for the last several months.

Claim victory in units sold, or make more money by foregoing an unnecessary cut since sales are up? I know which one I would choose, as well as any smart business man.
 

BKK

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hirokazu said:
Samsung doesn't have any experience in consoles as far as I know. I think the barriers of entry to making a successful console are pretty high, unless you have established relations with third parties publishers already. I don't think it's as simple as saying "Look at how profitable Samsung is, they'd totally crush Sony if they were to get into the games business."

Samsung do have plenty of experience in the console market.

Edit: Corrected quote!
 

Karma

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Apr 6, 2007
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Opiate said:
But over the last 8 years, no division has lost more money in aggregate than the Gaming division has. Saying "but now they're probably maybe approximately breaking even this year" isn't much consolation when they've already lost so much money and we're about to enter a new generation all over again.

Then there are divisions like film, which have never really been big moneymakers; they typically run profits over the course of a decade, but the margins are incredibly slim and drag down overall margins for a generally tech-driven company. Opportunity cost is high.

Sony has no divisions that one would consider "successful" right now. They have a wide variety of underperforming divisions, which is why the unification and streamlining processes Stringer has undertaken is so important. Sony definitely has the resources to make a unique and very powerful conglomerate; execution will be key.

I just think if they can not compete with Samsung and others on price they need to get out of the TV business. Their brand is no longer strong enough to have a higher price. If Apple enters the market they are dead because Apple will take their premium position.

Also, how did they go from an estimate of a 60 Billion yen profit for the year to estimating a 90 billion yen net loss? What happened?
 

OldJadedGamer

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Feb 28, 2006
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Paco said:
Guessing that Microsoft doesn't seen a strong need to cut since they've owned NPD for the last several months.

Claim victory in units sold, or make more money by foregoing an unnecessary cut since sales are up? I know which one I would chose, as well as any smart business man.

Gamasutra's article states that Sony blamed the loss in the division on cutting the price of the PS3.
 

jcm

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OldJadedGamer said:
Gamasutra's article states that Sony blamed the loss in the division on cutting the price of the PS3.

Gamasutra is incorrect. They blamed reduced revenue and profit in Game on the PS3 price cut. They blamed the loss in the division mostly on TVs:

Now, I would like to explain our segment result. First, I will explain the result of consumer product and service segments. CPS segment sales decreased 12%. This was primarily due to LCD TV sales price declines, resulting mainly from deterioration in market conditions in the West and unfavorable foreign exchange rates, as well as lower PC sales, reflecting price competition. Operating loss was ¥34.6 billion, compared to plus ¥1.0 billion in the same quarter last year. This decrease was driven primarily by deterioration in the cost of sales ratio and decreasing gross profit resulting from the decrease in sales, offset partially by decreasing restructuring changes. You can see positive and negative factors contributing to CPS segment.
 

BKK

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hirokazu said:
Wow, that's news for the day. But Gam Boy? Really?

I think it preceded the Game Boy, there was also the "Handy Gam*Boy" (Game Gear) :)

Incidentally, Nintendo consoles were licenced by Hyundai and released as the Comboy, Super Comboy, and Comboy 64. Daewoo released the world's only MSX consoles, and later the PC Engine all under the Zemmix brand.

Samsung also announced and revealed their own 3DO system, but never released it.
 

yurinka

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hirokazu said:
Samsung doesn't have any experience in consoles as far as I know.
Samsung tried twice to create a propietary game shop for mobile / smartphones and failed hard. It doesn't make sense, a console from them would be another Apple Pippin or Panasonic 3DO. They will just continue Android devices.

Apple won't release a console because games are the main content of their smartphones, tablets and future TV. So they won't remove them from there to move them to another device. They won't develop games because already get enough money from hardware and 3rd party license. If something, they will release an add-on to play traditional games in their devices.
 

H_Prestige

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Aug 2, 2008
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What exactly would Samsung have to overcome to get into the console business? Hardware itself is no problem for them, they would easily beat the competition there. If the hardware is there and development is straightforward, then third parties would put most of their games on it. Then they would need to set up an XBL or PSN type of thing, which would take work. I don't think they need to develop games themselves. Sony seems to stay in the race just fine without a big first party. The meat and potatoes of the ps3 and 360 are the third party games anyway.

I think Samsung is easily big enough and has the resources to break in.
 

Zen

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OldJadedGamer said:
Gamasutra's article states that Sony blamed the loss in the division on cutting the price of the PS3.

Only one of the reasons.
 

noobie

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OldJadedGamer said:
Gamasutra's article states that Sony blamed the loss in the division on cutting the price of the PS3.
They also had wrong Lifetime figures of PS3, saying PS3 has now shipped 56M when infact it has sold only 55.53M and difference between PS3 & XBOX360 is stil 2.07M instead of just 1.3M..

So i am not very confident on their reporting atleast especially when they cant even read the simple figures from the quarterly reports.
Gamasutra Article Link
 

eastmen

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May 20, 2010
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It will certianly be interested when Sony launches their next gen system.

At this point in time unless there is a turn around in sony's financials I highly doubt they will be able to release a system that takes a loss as large as the ps3 .

While sony wont need to launch a new movie format and thus have an expensive optical drive in the new console , i don't see them being able to compete with MS from a tech point of view.

MS certianly has more money to throw into the arena than sony. They are hugely profitable as a whole while sony seems to be bleeding money. I think in terms of hardware power ms will have the lead , followed by sony and with nintendo bringing up the rear. If both systems launch in 2013 then this could be a huge problem for sony
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jun 8, 2004
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I think their budget for the next system will be either focused around silicon, or focused around some 'new' thing (e.g. if they have some wacky new controller or whatever).

PS3 had a fairly substantial set of 'distractions' from either of those two goals that added a good chunk, cost wise.

I can see them potentially ditching the standard hard drive.

Blu-ray will be very cheap.

Those are big advantages over the PS3 situation, cost-wise. If their per-unit budget is half what it was for PS3*, that need not necessarily impact on the other insides (e.g. relative processing power) as dramatically as a 50% cost cut might suggest.

I certainly hope Sony and MS can put out similarly (high) powered machines. If only one can, then its power will to one or other degree be hampered by the other two players. Low power was odd-manned-out last gen. I hope high power won't be next-gen.

* Amateur analysis here, but I could see a $399 launch day target, with a 20% loss initially = ~$500 per unit budget. PS3's was rumoured to be $800-$1000 at the start.
 

like a dragon

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Dec 25, 2010
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It would be extremely interesting if the next Playstation and the next Xbox launches close to each other time frame wise and price point wise. Would be more interesting than the current situation where one had the price and time advantage.
 

Psychotext

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Jun 15, 2007
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Aad said:
There's absolutely no point. Sony doesn't have a gaming division now, it went from gaming, to gaming plus laptops & PCs to gaming plus laptops, PCs, TVs, cameras (and more).

The numbers are meaningless in the original context now.

Edit - Oh, and regarding what Sony blame for the loss in the division, take it straight from the horse's mouth.

Sales decreased 12.3% year-on-year (a 7% decrease on a local currency basis) to 779.7 billion yen (10,126 million U.S. dollars). Sales to outside customers decreased 12.4% year-on-year. This was primarily due to a decrease in LCD television sales, reflecting price declines due mainly to deterioration in market conditions in the U.S. and Europe and unfavorable foreign exchange rates, lower PC sales reflecting price competition, a decline in sales of the game business, reflecting a strategic price reduction of PlayStation®3 hardware in advance of the year-end holiday season, as well as a decrease in sales of compact digital cameras resulting from lower unit sales due to a slowdown in market growth and unfavorable foreign exchange rates.

Operating loss of 34.6 billion yen (449 million U.S. dollars) was recorded compared to income of 1.0 billion yen in the same quarter of the previous fiscal year. This was primarily due to deterioration in the cost of sales ratio and a decrease in gross profit due to lower sales, partially offset by a decrease in restructuring charges. Categories contributing to the deterioration in operating results (excluding restructuring charges) include LCD televisions, reflecting a decline in unit selling prices that exceeded cost and expense reductions, the game business and PCs, reflecting lower sales as noted above. Operating loss included additional LCD panel related expenses resulting from low capacity utilization of S-LCD as well as the above-noted asset impairment of 8.6 billion yen (112 million U.S. dollars) associated with LCD television assets.
 
Aug 27, 2009
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specialguy said:
People predicting Xbox Next rushed to 2012 because of this, get real. You think these giant corporations even care which one has nominal "second place"?

It doesn't change anything, what they care about is strategy, profits. If MS wanted to hold second so bad they could just match or exceed Sony's 50 cut. By not doing it they just stack up more profits. Which is more important? On a message board we're all worried about second place bragging rights. In a corporate boardroom they'd rather add up a few more suitcases of cash (as would we, if it was our money).

Further, there are virtually no third party exclusives anymore, and pretty much all third party games are multiplatform now, and that wont change either. Neither is in danger if losing third party support, so it's all a bit irrelevant. Fun to argue over and I do it with the best of em, but dont lose sight of the big picture.

Precisely. One being a few million units ahead of the other is completely irrelevant at this point, both first and third parties have already made their strategic decisions for the next generation. Instead, Microsoft chooses to concentrate on generating profits and strengthening their newly found bond with the family audience so that the next time around they have a better shot at capturing all segments of the market much sooner.

They could have hurt Sony in many ways - dropping the price, making Live cheaper or free (instead, subscriptions went up), not pricing Kinect higher than anyone's expectations, investing more money in first and third party exclusives - but they chose not to since staying ahead has not been their priority for quite a while.
 

TheOddOne

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Carl said:
Considering how many times Mattrick bangs on about how they're going to outsell the PS3 this year or by the end of the gen... yes.
I find this such a double standard. MS executive says they will outsell other consoles = he is wrong, Sony executive says no they will outsell other consoles = must be right, nothing wrong with what he said. I still don't get why people cling on such non-sense.
 

NemesisPrime

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REMEMBER CITADEL said:
Precisely. One being a few million units ahead of the other is completely irrelevant at this point, both first and third parties have already made their strategic decisions for the next generation. Instead, Microsoft chooses to concentrate on generating profits and strengthening their newly found bond with the family audience so that the next time around they have a better shot at capturing all segments of the market much sooner.

They could have hurt Sony in many ways - dropping the price, making Live cheaper or free (instead, subscriptions went up), not pricing Kinect higher than anyone's expectations, investing more money in first and third party exclusives - but they chose not to since staying ahead has not been their priority for quite a while.

QFT

TBH this is a classic MS strategy and it is a bit weird that Sony fell for it, basically bleeding themselves dry trying to outsell the 360. You would almost start to think that their pride is causing them to implode. How many years of loss is that now for Sony? 4-5?
 

Massa

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REMEMBER CITADEL said:
Precisely. One being a few million units ahead of the other is completely irrelevant at this point, both first and third parties have already made their strategic decisions for the next generation. Instead, Microsoft chooses to concentrate on generating profits and strengthening their newly found bond with the family audience so that the next time around they have a better shot at capturing all segments of the market much sooner.

They could have hurt Sony in many ways - dropping the price, making Live cheaper or free (instead, subscriptions went up), not pricing Kinect higher than anyone's expectations, investing more money in first and third party exclusives - but they chose not to since staying ahead has not been their priority for quite a while.

Microsoft used to make it a big point at E3 about how they would definitely end ahead of the PS3 in worldwide sales this generation. They have dropped that talk in the last couple of years though.


NemesisPrime said:
QFT

TBH this is a classic MS strategy and it is a bit weird that Sony fell for it, basically bleeding themselves dry trying to outsell the 360. You would almost start to think that their pride is causing them to implode. How many years of loss is that now for Sony? 4-5?

Sony losses have little to do with the 360.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Mar 22, 2007
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NemesisPrime said:
QFT

TBH this is a classic MS strategy and it is a bit weird that Sony fell for it, basically bleeding themselves dry trying to outsell the 360. You would almost start to think that their pride is causing them to implode. How many years of loss is that now for Sony? 4-5?
I think most of their strategy was to make more people buy the PS3, not necessarily just trying to outsell the Xbox 360.
 

Auto_aim1

MeisaMcCaffrey
Jul 7, 2010
12,877
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NemesisPrime said:
QFT

TBH this is a classic MS strategy and it is a bit weird that Sony fell for it, basically bleeding themselves dry trying to outsell the 360. You would almost start to think that their pride is causing them to implode. How many years of loss is that now for Sony? 4-5?
They cut the price to meet the FY 15 million forecast. Not for any other reasons. Also, the loss is due to other things.
 
Aug 27, 2009
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Massa said:
Microsoft used to make it a big point at E3 about how they would definitely end ahead of the PS3 in worldwide sales this generation. They have dropped that talk in the last couple of years though.

Yes, they said that at the end of the generation they would be at least one console ahead of Sony. Come on, one would have to be really naive not to see Mattrick's boasting for what it truly is, just PR speech and a cheap way of keeping consumers' confidence.
 

AniHawk

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specialguy said:
People predicting Xbox Next rushed to 2012 because of this, get real. You think these giant corporations even care which one has nominal "second place"?

It doesn't change anything, what they care about is strategy, profits. If MS wanted to hold second so bad they could just match or exceed Sony's 50 cut. By not doing it they just stack up more profits. Which is more important? On a message board we're all worried about second place bragging rights. In a corporate boardroom they'd rather add up a few more suitcases of cash (as would we, if it was our money).

Further, there are virtually no third party exclusives anymore, and pretty much all third party games are multiplatform now, and that wont change either. Neither is in danger if losing third party support, so it's all a bit irrelevant. Fun to argue over and I do it with the best of em, but dont lose sight of the big picture.

the successor to the 360 won't come about due to microsoft's fears of slumping into third place, but their strategy of beating sony (and now many other companies) to the living room with one box that does everything. while they have the opportunity, they can:

1) carry momentum from the 360 to their next console, bringing a fanbase over that loves xbox live with a brand new halo game and probably the best-looking version of call of duty: treyarch game 4
2) take the wind out of nintendo's sails with a console that looks better and has better features (and probably touting a thing like kinect so nintendo's tablet thing doesn't gain too much traction, if it does at all)
3) beat sony to the punch by about a year

i think there's a good chance of this happening, because i don't see sony in any shape to launch a new system in 2013, and microsoft probably doesn't want to launch a console with very similar features to the ps4 days apart with a little more than two more years of xbox 360 sales.
 

thuway

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Tylahedras said:
MS will not let Sony surpass them WW before they launch the next machine. So at this rate they will have to release the 720 by holiday 2012 to be sure that won't happen. Color me surprised, I had them pegged for 2013, these numbers changed my mind.


At this rate no one cares. The numbers are a big giant wash. Releasing before tech matures enough to where the customer can see a visual difference might hinder the market.