kraspkibble
Permabanned.
consoles + hardcore gamers don't go together lol.
Maybe Sony should move into the PC market.
Maybe Sony should move into the PC market.
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Sony Positions Next PlayStation for Hard-Core Gamers.
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
Angry_Megalodon
Member
OMG, this crap again? You mean, the 10% of the PC market , right? There is no more casual gamer than the average teen playing F2P on PC.
hardcore games = immersive experiences. It should be easy to understand, from Sony's logic.
sublimit
Banned
I'm sorry but from what you are saying i don't think you understand what is a gimmick and what is a core experience.
Azurro
Banned
Is this like a conscious trolling effort? The entire thread is about weeaboos having a tantrum about their perv games maybe getting censored. Can't we contain all of this talk to a single thread to avoid it metastasising to the other threads in the forum? I get the pervs are pissed, but come on, nobody likes hearing about that shit again and again.
I don't really care how they market the new console. I care about what games they release. The massive misconception Sony and Microsoft seem to both suffer from is that "hardcore gamers" are constantly fetishizing over new consoles. We want better games. The consoles are just fine.
Well, as long as my PS4 games carry over, I'm fine with whatever they come up with. Price point matters as well. Would be nice if they cut out the woke censorship nonsense, but don't expect it. This talk about marketing towards hardcores, seems like empty marketing buzz to get people to buy into it at launch.
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vpance
Member
J devs still struggling to create HD towns. Future looks grim.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
They are clearly struggling. /s
Why not just say what really mean, what you really want is hyper "realism graphics".
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vpance
Member
They are clearly struggling. /s
Why not just say what really mean, what you really want is hyper "realism graphics".
Was said slightly in jest, but sort of meant it.
The output for big titles is still relatively slow. And yeah, what we're seeing technologically is pretty basic. Will that improve a lot for PS5? I doubt it. At this point the target audience might very well be better served on Switch.
SonGoku
Member
Out of those 3 the only one that looks impressive is the one made by SE
They are clearly struggling. /s
Why not just say what really mean, what you really want is hyper "realism graphics".
The rest look like it was made for PS360 and Switch
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Well, Persona 5 is a PS3 and Xenoblade 2 is a Switch game. I personally don't care about having most advance graphics, what I care about the most is art direction, as long as they deliver on that I'm more than happy.
SonGoku
Member
I don't mind either (as long as the IQ is decent) but vpance has a point: Japanese devs with a few exceptions (Capcom, SE, Sony) are a gen behind when it comes to game tech. They should just license UE4
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Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
So? That didn't stop them from making great games. Games are more than just having highest techs in graphics, FromSoftware and Atlus games are no technical marvel but they have excellent art direction and absolutely blast to play and thats all I want from them.
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SonGoku
Member
I agree they game great games but why does it has to be a compromise? Some of these devs should just bite the bullet and license UE4
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
We are starting to see more JP developers already using UE4, even Atlus will be using UE4 for SMTV.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
Have you looked at the prices for SSD drives lately? I'd say it's possible that they release with a 500GB SSD.
Those arguments about "PS3 Sony" are so strange, who comes up with that sort of thing? Anyway, with forward and backward compatibility it wouldn't be bad to have a very strong next-gen PlayStation that shares a portion of its library with the previous gen console(s), while offering better resolution, frame rate and some more advanced special effects, add has a couple of "true next gen" efforts.
I say this because many games don't even need a full PS4, especially the lower budget titles, any pixel art game, etc. why have a million different builds?
Anyway, except for the way they treated Indies lately I'm pretty happy how the platform is handled in general (SJW pandering is to expec, so it's neither a positive, nor a net negative when comparing Sony to their peers, except maybe Nintendo for some reason).
Jetboxx
Member
Not particularly, for what I want is diversity. I am mostly talking about their first-party stuff, anyway. Sony's first-party output has always been pretty mediocre (compared to Nintendo, Sega and even Microsoft in the first half of the previous generation) but this generation is just a never-ending borefest. Remember LocoRoco? Remember Patapon? Looks like Japan Studio has gone all VR now. Sad.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
This isn't just an SSD, you're talking about generic shit which is like 1,800 mb/s and the drives in these systems will likely be 5,000 mb/s+.
PendekarRajawali
Member
What is actually the definition of hardcore gamers?
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
- Mostly play MP and PVP games.
- games you play must have hyper realistic graphics and lot of gore.
- you shouldn't playing games for fun but instead for bragging rights.
I guess thats logic for some people use.
Azurro
Banned
From Software isn't exactly on the forefront of technology, but they still are far more advanced than the stuff that Atlus produces. Persona 5 might have very nice art direction but it's still almost literally a PS3 game in higher res, same with Ni No Kuni 2.
I want better than this.
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Agreed. "Hardcore" to me simply means someone who plays a wide variety of games instead of one or two genres or niches and really gets into them.
I also don't get the pushback against J titles, especially on a console that basically brought them into the mainstream. There's always been room for both and this is coming from someone who plays much more Western these days.
The Pleasure
Member
Well how am I supposed to look up those Nippon skirts with 2d consoles? They reached their limit and VR is the future for those glorious bastards who want to live the adventures of ASS CATCHEM and UPSKIRT ADVENTURES II THE QUEST FOR THE NANAKA'S PANTSU!
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
At what cost? Let say Persona/SMT does end up having high tech graphics but as result the games end up having low amount of demons because modelling each demon with high detail becomes crazy expensive and it take too much time. Biggest selling point of SMT/Persona is capturing and fusing demons, it’s not a good compromise to have less demons for sake of having expensive graphics. Atlus games have fantastic art direction, I honestly don’t need high tech graphics from them.
Edit: Persona 5 IS a PS3 game, it was originally suppose to come out only for PS3.
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Jetboxx
Member
You've got some strange fixation with skirts and pantsu. I don't expect Sony to produce such kind of games, and they don't need to, really, there are other developers who are great at creating such stuff. What I meant were games like LocoRoco and Patapon, maybe Gravity Rush.
Azurro
Banned
Nonsense, under that argument nobody should ever produce anything that pushes the envelope technologically. You yourself said it, it's a higher res PS3 game, but has Atlus even released an actual current gen game?
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Well they are currently working on SMTV with UE4 for Switch and Studio Zero is working on RE: Project Fantasy.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
This is coming from the same company that's been alienating their core, selling watered down gameplay, shun smaller developers, and censoring content. Not to mention they have a long history of empty marketing promises and lipservice. I assume "hardcore" by their definition is a consumer who buys every PS related product day one and subscribes to their service, without question.
Also, this gem was added by the author:
Looks like Sony's arrogance is making a comeback.
Can't make a comeback when it never left.
GenericUser
Member
Of course you market a new game console "for hardcore gamers". These are the people who buy new and expensive gaming consoles. Once you sold a PS5 to all "hardcore gamers" you begin to sell them to all "not so hardcore gamers" and so on and at the end of the gen you sell it to soccer moms.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Keep beating that drum... I am sure you are just as forgiving with other companies too... oh wait you are not
.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
One would think that the exclusion was on purpose.
The Pleasure
Member
Because that's what sells. I don't see Gravity Rush selling shit. I don't see The Last Guardian selling shit. Where's Patapon and LocoRoco? Sent to the Sakurai Dungeon of Gamecube Basement. Never to be seen again. Except for those remasters on PS4. Nobody buys that shit, yet those Japanese connoisseurs of weird Nippon keep buying Senran Kagura and those Boys love games keep getting release. It's kind of like rap music. Biggie dead. Tupac Dead. Vanilla Ice Still Alive.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
If you are ok with them being censored sure!
Hudo
Member
To be fair, Japan Studio only helped out with outsourced work on Bloodborne and TLG... I think the point still stands that Japan Studio deserves to be elevated to a level of importance for Sony like Naughty Dog or Guerilla Games (after Horizon) are currently. Astrobot was pretty cool, though.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Japan Studio did all the technical work And everything not outsourced to genDesign which was doing higher level design and gameplay loop work. It was genDesign who they were outsourcing some work to, not the other way around (genDesign is a really small studio with yes the overall creative lead). Also, genDesign was born in the last few years of overall production.
I agree though, they need to be allowed and supported to flex their wings, but I am not sure a very small selection of super high production values AAA titles is where I like to see them: I prefer many smaller, diverse, and well crafted experiences like in PS1 and PS2 and some PS3 and PS4 titles.
Sure, transition from early PS3 to PS4 was very hard for them with tons and tons of stuff in production at the same time and nothing that was able to be focused and completed in a reasonable amount of time.
The reason I like getting vastly more powerful and less resources constrained new generation of devices that can have exclusive software is that some studios like the classic smaller Japan Studios ones can have an easier time delivering their vision (which hardly tries to topple AAA titles technology wise, but points to competent tech and great art direction instead).
Kagey K
Banned
If you think that’s bad, you should go into some Xbox threads.....
You can really see how pathetic it gets from the other side.
Edit after looking it seems you are well aware, and a bit hypocritical.
Nice try though.
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Hudo
Member
Oh, OK. I thought that Ueda left Japan Studio, formed genDesign and then let Japan Studio handle all the technical work because there was a contract between him and Japan Studio regarding TLG. But I admit that I haven't kept up with what exactly went down over there. But I remember that Andrew House went over to Japan Studio to "restructure it" etc. But this was some time ago already and he left. So he probably just meant cutting down on development times and not restructuring it into a "first-level" studio for Sony.... Maybe I am just bitter how Sony seem to ignore studios with high potential (that they already have!) and instead going to make some third-party exclusive deals... Wrong strategy in my opinion. But I am not a business guy, so what do I know? Lol.
With regards to transition phases, I do actually have the feeling (I can't back this up with sources) that overall, most of their first-party studios had a much smoother transition into PS4 than the transition from PS2 to PS3 which was (reportedly) abysmal. I remember talking to some colleagues back then and they were all telling me that it was hell. Incomplete and outdated documentation. Many important things were not even translated properly. And pipeline hell. From dependency issues to just issues interacting with the system debugging tools etc. Ironically enough, we had less issues transitioning to massively parallel paradigms when it came to actual development work as this was already one of the areas our research group worked in anyway. I still think that Kutaragi was actually pretty forward thinking with his design of the PS3. I know that many people hail Cerny as the uber-dude and he certainly deserves the credit but it is actually quite the conservative architecture that he utilized for the PS4. But then again, that was apparently the right choice as we can see with how well it sells. Ah, lol. Sorry for the digression.
Long story short: I just want Gravity Rush 3, haha.
You have some horrible taste in women bud.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I think we are saying the same thing from different angles
. Japan Studio had a great share of the work was my point as they were in charge of the technical and optimisation work and possibly bulk of the art considering how small genDesign is (involved, but maybe doing a bit more supervision?). Considering the game also had to transition from PS3 to PS4 that is a nice tools and engine rewrite (if they got a handle on SPU’s and now had to move to compute shaders).Agree with you on the PS3 transition being the problem for Japan Studios, and general mismanagement, but those problems take a while for teams to shake away the more they struggled to adapt and the longer it took. I think the tail end of those technical problems plus the studios re-org and the morale issues it caused dramatically affected their PS4 output... hopefully it is all sorted with PS5
.Btw, your “digression” is really insightful and engaging to read
, more of that please. it is very interesting to explore the approach of both Kutaragi and Cerny from the HW engineering and the SW engineering angles they start from given their background and how they tried to approach the other side of the spectrum (how Kutaragi approached the SW engineering aspect and Cerny the HW one).
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Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Don’t we all.
Kagey K
Banned
These are not sexualizsd objects, I just see them in Polygons.
So my taste would be who has the less sharper edges.
Tesseract
Banned
i agree with this and stand by it
Hoya Destroyer
Member
My initial thought is that hardcore gamers dont like censorship and Sony has gained a reputation for that recently.
I hope Sony change their attitude towards sexy girls in games.
I hope Sony change their attitude towards sexy girls in games.
Hudo
Member
Ah, I had not considered the size of genDesign. I mean, I was aware that genDesign probably handled all the "high-level" decisions and tasks and I certainly don't want to diminish the work that Japan Studio have done! (I think it is very impressive). And you are right, they had a platform transition during development. Holy hell, that must have been frustrating and liberating at the same time. I think I read somewhere that most of the struggles they had during development were memory related, which the PS3 had not a lot of (I think it was 512 MB overall but it wasn't in a uniform pool, so you probably had a bit of overhead with different access patterns and the like) and the "circular-bus" of the SPEs and not all of them could communicate with the PPE. Actually, now that I think about it, wasn't there even a game that ran better on the original (fat) PS3 because it "abused" the Emotion Engine to offload some of the tasks? I could be wrong on this though, but I swear that I remember something in that direction...I think we are saying the same thing from different angles
Agree with you on the PS3 transition being the problem for Japan Studios, and general mismanagement, but those problems take a while for teams to shake away the more they struggled to adapt and the longer it took. I think the tail end of those technical problems plus the studios re-org and the morale issues it caused dramatically affected their PS4 output... hopefully it is all sorted with PS5
Btw, your “digression” is really insightful and engaging to read
I actually have only limited knowledge about Kutaragi's philosophy regarding his design. Would be very cool to get some insight, though! But I do know that originally he cooperated with Nintendo on the sound chip for the SNES and was then tasked to design a CD-ROM extension for the SNES, which Nintendo infamously backed out of in favour of Philips....and we all know how that went, lol.
So, would you say that genDesign could be compared to Mistwalker? Mistwalker are also not really big and mostly do only high-level work.
ANIMAL1975
Member
People are really extrapolating on this because i think they didn't actually read the article. The all thing is mostly a piece of opinion of the author! He bases his conclusions on two anonymous "Sony officers" with whom he spoke, a industry analyst, and some old already known quotes of Jim Ryan and Yoshida _ being the later the one that inspired the "for the hardcore" clickb title:
What many have said here, the first buyers are the power and tech enthusiasts (so let's make our hardware the most appealing to them possible, Kaiju mode check
) and the brand loyals ( to them: all PS4 gaming library available on the go and cross gen so that you can still play with your friends that don't upgrade, check ). In a year or so from launch, hardware revision with 6nm, price drop, and the other type of consumers more price sensitive will start to follow. I think this is the big strategy Sony is aiming for. Meanwhile, PS4 is still around, gathering psplus subscribers for more 3 to 4 years into the next gen, and possibly, with a 7nm and price revision to brake more sales records.
