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Sony: "Acquisition of Bungie Represents a Major Step Forward in Becoming More Multiplatform"

Convenience and couch play.

I know hardcore PC gamers will say "just hook up the PC to your big screen TV".

Ok, a gamer just finished playing Counterstrike on an LG OLED and have been successful telling the wife and kids to leave him alone for two hours as they wanted to watch Netflix. Now he's done and wants to surf the net, now what? He's going to sit in front of the family's 65" tv doing emails tying up the TV or haul the PC back to the basement to free up the TV? Nobody is going to do that. That's why most people keep PCs away from their TV.

Now someone will say "just buy another good TV just for PC gaming". Anyone can do that. But that assumes someone or a gamer wants to pony up for another TV.

I'm pretty sure the husband, wife, and kids have smartphones and tablets. If they want to watch something on Netflix they can just watch it on their tablet if they want. If the husband wants to check on his emails he can do so on his smartphone or a tablet.

So there are other ubiquitous devices already in the home which add convenience for PC in ways where the console still feels like the odd man out.
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
Honest question, then: if there are no console exclusives for Sony or Microsoft, what conveniences do they bring that PC does not bring?

Plug n' Play? You don't have to configure much on PC especially with the way storefronts are now.

Media apps? You get them all and more on PC.

Price? PC usually has consoles beat there, especially with various bundle deals and things like CD Keys.

Cost? With the advances in integrated graphics, lower-end CPUs etc. in two years from now we'll probably have integrated graphics on entry-level CPUs from Intel and AMD that can match or beat what PS5 and Series X provide. And not costing an arm and a leg.

Let alone dedicated GPUs. Stuff like DirectStorage will be in use by then, to. That's only 2024, btw.

Library? More console-centric devs are considering supporting PC a lot more liberally, like Atlus and Capcom. And there are plenty of Steam-only games you'll never get on console (and classic games via GOG never coming to console, either).

So where is the convenience for consoles by that point? I'm not even going to ask if console exclusives don't matter anymore, if the hardware doesn't matter anymore, why don't people pressure Nintendo to adapt to the market and bring their 1P to PC as well? They're a business too and want to make more money, I'm sure.



And Nintendo? Why should I be forced to buy a Switch if there's nothing really preventing them from porting their games to PC? I mean, shouldn't they also let me buy the box I want by not "gatekeeping" their software to hardware I'd maybe rather not buy?

Nintendo usually do something bat shit and are the only company pushing some mobility but I hear you. 4k zelda etc on PC officially would be dope.

I just feel like Nintendo create this toy type direction with their hardware that makes them different to the others, but I would welcome it to be honest. I'd just buy a steamdeck or something. I love playing my switch in bed which nine of the other console manufacturers deliver on. I guess if xbox cloud takes off etc I could play on my phone or pad in bed, just doesn't seem as good right now.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I'm pretty sure the husband, wife, and kids have smartphones and tablets. If they want to watch something on Netflix they can just watch it on their tablet if they want. If the husband wants to check on his emails he can do so on his smartphone or a tablet.

So there are other ubiquitous devices already in the home which add convenience for PC in ways where the console still feels like the odd man out.
I'm single and even if I had a gaming rig, I'd never hook it up to my TV.

I'd just game in front of a monitor. My TV would be free the hassle of lugging a PC, I dont surf the net on my phone much, I dont have a tablet, and my set up is my TV is nearby so I can watch sports while I use my personal laptop on my dining room table.

To me the convenience part isn't drivers and configging files since that's a non issue for me. It's taking up functionality. And most people who want some family fun gaming will do it on a cheap console hooked up to a TV vs. using the family PC to do everything including hogging the TV.
 

Draugoth

Gold Member
Nintendo usually do something bat shit and are the only company pushing some mobility but I hear you. 4k zelda etc on PC officially would be dope.

I just feel like Nintendo create this toy type direction with their hardware that makes them different to the others, but I would welcome it to be honest. I'd just buy a steamdeck or something. I love playing my switch in bed which nine of the other console manufacturers deliver on. I guess if xbox cloud takes off etc I could play on my phone or pad in bed, just doesn't seem as good right now.

People would just then buy PCs instead of their underpowerd consoles.

But yeah. im totally in for a Mario on Steam.
 

ChiefDada

Member
Honest question, then: if there are no console exclusives for Sony or Microsoft, what conveniences do they bring that PC does not bring?

Plug n' Play? You don't have to configure much on PC especially with the way storefronts are now.

Media apps? You get them all and more on PC.

Price? PC usually has consoles beat there, especially with various bundle deals and things like CD Keys.

Cost? With the advances in integrated graphics, lower-end CPUs etc. in two years from now we'll probably have integrated graphics on entry-level CPUs from Intel and AMD that can match or beat what PS5 and Series X provide. And not costing an arm and a leg.

Let alone dedicated GPUs. Stuff like DirectStorage will be in use by then, to. That's only 2024, btw.

Library? More console-centric devs are considering supporting PC a lot more liberally, like Atlus and Capcom. And there are plenty of Steam-only games you'll never get on console (and classic games via GOG never coming to console, either).

So where is the convenience for consoles by that point? I'm not even going to ask if console exclusives don't matter anymore, if the hardware doesn't matter anymore, why don't people pressure Nintendo to adapt to the market and bring their 1P to PC as well? They're a business too and want to make more money, I'm sure.



And Nintendo? Why should I be forced to buy a Switch if there's nothing really preventing them from porting their games to PC? I mean, shouldn't they also let me buy the box I want by not "gatekeeping" their software to hardware I'd maybe rather not buy?

If what you're saying here is true, how do you explain Microsoft's ability to continue selling millions of consoles even after implementing their day and date PC policy? I think the vast majority of console owners are primarily enticed by the convenience and value proposition they provide.
 

rodrigolfp

Member
Convenience and couch play.

I know hardcore PC gamers will say "just hook up the PC to your big screen TV".

Ok, a gamer just finished playing Counterstrike on an LG OLED and have been successful telling the wife and kids to leave him alone for two hours as they wanted to watch Netflix. Now he's done and wants to surf the net, now what? He's going to sit in front of the family's 65" tv doing emails tying up the TV or haul the PC back to the basement to free up the TV? Nobody is going to do that. That's why most people keep PCs away from their TV.

Now someone will say "just buy another good TV just for PC gaming". Anyone can do that. But that assumes someone or a gamer wants to pony up for another TV.
I do gaming and email/surf web on a QLED TV on the living room. What's is difficult?
I havent experienced a memory leak since the PS360 era PC ports, but Im with Osiris on how frustrating PC gaming can be. Had to rebuild my entire PC because some parts magically failed one day and no one could figure out why. Thats ok, electronics fail, but then there are a lot of issues with peripherals despite more and more games supporting the PS4 controller. There are games like Batman AK that do not support the PS4 controller even when using DS4windows. I had to add it to the steam library to launch it from there to be able to recognize the PS4 controller. Thats just one example. Nearly every PC game I play has some kind of issue at launch.

The folks over in the PC thread can testify to some of my issues. Bought a 3080 recently and even after installing the latest firmware, it crashes nearly all of my games. I was like wtf. Turns out i have to download some third party software called DDU to remove the old install and then do a brand new install of the nvidia drivers. Like come on, why is this even a thing? After that, Red Dead 2 kept crashing until i googled and found out you had to verify the game files to fix that issue. Like come on. Yes, that fixed the issue but why is this even an issue if it needs a simple verify?

I have spent the last 30 days trying to figure out why the UE5 matrix demo keeps crashing. Spent over $50 bucks on new parts and cables, and nothing. I just hope its not an issue when UE5 games start shipping. Now im still sticking with this thing because i still like PC gaming but im not gonna pretend PC gaming has no issues in 2022.
I play BAK with mouse+kb so not a problem and even if I wanted controller I would use whatever works with my DS3. On console I would have to limit myself to DS4 and bad performance/IQ devs throw at me. So I only see problems on console here.

Rarely I have problems with games even on launch.

Matrix demo I didn't try and probably never will, but I should expect shit happening because is a mess of a unoptimized beta demo and not a commercial retail product.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I do gaming and email/surf web on a QLED TV on the living room. What's is difficult?
Hockey playoffs are at 7 pm. Two hours from now.

If I'm surfing the net on computer, how am I going to watch the game at the same time on the same tv?

The best and easiest outcome is leave the TV alone and have the game on. And surf the net on my laptop nearby. I can do both at the same time.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Hockey playoffs are at 7 pm. Two hours from now.

If I'm surfing the net on computer, how am I going to watch the game at the same time on the same tv?

The best and easiest outcome is leave the TV alone and have the game on. And surf the net on my laptop nearby. I can do both at the same time.

I mean.. it's possible to own 2 computers.
 

rodrigolfp

Member
Hockey playoffs are at 7 pm. Two hours from now.

If I'm surfing the net on computer, how am I going to watch the game at the same time on the same tv?

The best and easiest outcome is leave the TV alone and have the game on. And surf the net on my laptop nearby. I can do both at the same time.
Are you like a chameleon that can focus eyes on email and hockey at the same time? If yes then, like me, plug at same time a monitor or another TV on another HDMI or Display port making dual screens. I have both monitor and TV side by side on living room.
 
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ZywyPL

Gold Member
The moment they go multiplatform, they give everyone the incentive to go to someone else's eco system and they lose their biggest moneymakers.

Console gamers will remain console gamers, while PC gamers are surely not moving anywhere. Sony's only danger is the console crowd moving to XB and giving all the subscription and royalty fees to MS', so it's up to Sony to create as attractive platform for gamers as possible, so ultimately I think it'll all be for better.
 

Ezquimacore

Member
"Nintendo should go third party"
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
The moment they go multiplatform, they give everyone the incentive to go to someone else's eco system and they lose their biggest moneymakers.
Depends what the narrative of the day is.

I thought the point of Sony going PC porting is because exposing 3 year old ports is supposed be big time teasers making them jump and get a PS console. So even if PC gamers are willing to bail for a PS5 with this strategy, surely launching multiplats on Nintendo or MS systems a few years later like PC will lasso in tons of competing gamers too making the PS ecosystem even bigger.
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
If everyone went PC Sony would not be making as much money

Only the hardcore hobbyists will migrate to PC, which is what happens anyway. Most people value convenience above all and don’t care enough about games to invest 2k+ in a gaming PC. I do agree that day and date will probably not happen just because they want the double dippers.

Also multiplatform probably means a bunch of mobile games. They’ve seen what kind of money is generated from having a hit mobile game.
 

SlimySnake

Member
Console gamers will remain console gamers, while PC gamers are surely not moving anywhere. Sony's only danger is the console crowd moving to XB and giving all the subscription and royalty fees to MS', so it's up to Sony to create as attractive platform for gamers as possible, so ultimately I think it'll all be for better.
Andrew House did an interview at the PS4 Pro reveal and said that the reason for the PS4 Pro was to offer hardcore gamers a reason to not jump ship to PC like they have in the past around the mid gen period. He said we needed them to stay in the eco system.

They need the hardcore to stay because the hardcore early adopters spend an average of a $1,000 more than the casuals late adopters during the console cycle.

In short, even Sony knew, and they numbers to back this up, that console gamers do NOT remain console gamers. Not the ones that spend the most anyway.
 

DukeNukem00

Banned



Some people just dont want to understand that PC gamers and consoles gamers are two distinct and separate userbases. PC gamers on the whole dont give the slightest flying fuck about consoles and their games, because the reason they are PC gamers is because they like pc games more and what the pc ecosystem offers. Theyd fucking be console gamers if they'd care about console games. Same is with console players. Especially reading this very forum, you see such fanatical obsession with consoles, bordering on religious fanaticism, and yet people pretend that large masses of people will move to PC overnight ? They won't. Every PC thread here has people trying their utmost to diminish the platform and invent every absurdity in the world to justify consoles, so what are people actually afraid of ? Nothing is gonna change when sony puts their games day one on PC, other than the fact that games will be more succesful
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
And they will make even more money going multiplat. All the things you mentioned are new ways of making more money. Of course they would make more profits than times ago. During the PS2 era, they had no such revenue generators like digital sales and PS+ subs.

And during the PS2 era they had a massive PC exclusive MMO under their belt lol. Imagine how that would go over now.
 
Nintendo usually do something bat shit and are the only company pushing some mobility but I hear you. 4k zelda etc on PC officially would be dope.

I just feel like Nintendo create this toy type direction with their hardware that makes them different to the others, but I would welcome it to be honest. I'd just buy a steamdeck or something. I love playing my switch in bed which nine of the other console manufacturers deliver on. I guess if xbox cloud takes off etc I could play on my phone or pad in bed, just doesn't seem as good right now.

OK, I'm glad you brought that point up. So I ask, if Sony still had a portable offering on the market, do you think that would create less of a dependence on any need to increase porting efforts on PC outside of where it makes sense (Day for GaaS/live-service titles, for example)?

Because in light of the console shortages they were having with PS5 (which might be clearing up with the new fiscal year), one of the more noted ideas for them from fans has been to come out with a new portable. Personally I think that would make sense; would not need to cost very much to sell or produce, aim for PS4 base equivalent performance, same featureset support as PS5, scale resolution down to something good for a 720p mobile screen. Maybe pull forward some hardware-based image upscaling ability with HDMI-out passthrough to upres games on a television for those who want that option.

As a business it sounds like it'd make more sense because they can control the vertical integration better that way, and maximize profits on their revenue streams while synergizing features and services with PS5. Only potential issue might be memory capacity; I think they'd still need 16 GB even if going for PS4-level performance TF-wise. But I'm not sure if that is the case.

Would've made a lot of sense for Microsoft to compliment the Xbox product line with a portable device too, before really going headfirst into Day 1 with PC and especially now more or less leveraging Steam Deck as a GamePass machine for all intents and purposes. They've already offered support for other options and once you do that it's very hard to try moving things back into any option that can gate access exclusively back into your ecosystem, either in actuality or in perception. It's not too late for Sony to bring back a portable option to complement their consoles, though. It would just serve as a complement to the console however, not something they are targeting specific 1P output for exclusively the way they did with PSP and Vita.

I'm single and even if I had a gaming rig, I'd never hook it up to my TV.

I'd just game in front of a monitor. My TV would be free the hassle of lugging a PC, I dont surf the net on my phone much, I dont have a tablet, and my set up is my TV is nearby so I can watch sports while I use my personal laptop on my dining room table.

To me the convenience part isn't drivers and configging files since that's a non issue for me. It's taking up functionality. And most people who want some family fun gaming will do it on a cheap console hooked up to a TV vs. using the family PC to do everything including hogging the TV.

Yeah like I was saying with DeepEnigma DeepEnigma earlier, consoles do have the advantage of convenience through perception, even if actuality for some users that advantage isn't as much as it may be compared to lower-end laptops or such in a few years from now, with a bit of looking on the customer's part. So there's that, and also consoles having the image of being gaming devices, which I suppose PCs or laptops, tablets etc. would not have, which adds to the convenience factor of consoles as well.

If what you're saying here is true, how do you explain Microsoft's ability to continue selling millions of consoles even after implementing their day and date PC policy? I think the vast majority of console owners are primarily enticed by the convenience and value proposition they provide.

Maybe, but in Microsoft's case they conveniently stopped reporting console sales numbers around the time they did PC Day-and-Date, almost as if there was some correlation at the very least. To this day they don't report console sales numbers, even though this is a new generation. So we can either argue that they made the shift to PC Day 1 due to poor software sales and limited console install base growth, or they did it in order to push increase in revenue off 1P titles, but given the timing of the shift which of those sound more plausible?

According to Statistica, XBO sold roughly 19.63 million between 2013 and end of 2015. MS enacted their Day 1 PC policy with Quantum Break in 2015. Between 2016 and 2020 XBO reached total LTD sales of around 45 million. That's another 25.37 million in 5 years, compared to 19.64 million in 3 years. To what amount of that can be put on them doing Day 1 on PC for all games, driving down the need to buy their console, we don't know. But it at least had some effect.

Again, I do think there's an innate perception of convenience with consoles that plays into their ability to sell regardless. That works into their brand image, and goes from there. I get that part. And that's a big reason why Xbox is able to move what they move even while doing PC Day 1. However, I don't think Microsoft are a company where having tight vertical integration of their gaming offerings is that big of a requirement, that's why they're very liberal with decentralizing their gaming ecosystem from hardware and storefronts they 100% own. Their software DNA is also not intrinsically tied to pushing innovative hardware designs (not necessarily) in order to drive creative innovations with their 1P studios, historically.

Sony and especially Nintendo are much different in that regard. PlayStation is way more integral to Sony than Xbox or even GamePass are to Microsoft, and we've seen multiple times how Sony 1P have pushed the architecture of their systems, systems that in many cases were wildly different than anything on PC. Nintendo is literally dependent on gaming to survive, they have no other major sectors of the tech market or entertainment markets they're in like Sony, much less Microsoft. And they've designed games that literally put certain genres on the map or standardized things like 3D analog controls (Mario 64). Same can be said with things like the DS, Wii etc.

Companies like those benefit more from centralization of the hardware and software, where as much of it is in their control as possible. Not just for maximizing profits but also to guarantee a baseline of quality. A while back Sony said they were paying close attention to Nintendo's Switch OLED; I think their "multiplatform" is really about PS5, PC, PSVR2 and probably some new portable device. And since out of those four, the PC provides the least control on their end as a provider (dependency on Microsoft for the OS, dependency on Epic and Valve for the storefronts, etc.), I think that's going to rule out things like Day 1 releases or significantly shorter release windows to PC for anything that's not specifically a live-service, GaaS type of game.
 

SlimySnake

Member
Convenience and couch play.

I know hardcore PC gamers will say "just hook up the PC to your big screen TV".

Ok, a gamer just finished playing Counterstrike on an LG OLED and have been successful telling the wife and kids to leave him alone for two hours as they wanted to watch Netflix. Now he's done and wants to surf the net, now what? He's going to sit in front of the family's 65" tv doing emails tying up the TV or haul the PC back to the basement to free up the TV? Nobody is going to do that. That's why most people keep PCs away from their TV.

Now someone will say "just buy another good TV just for PC gaming". Anyone can do that. But that assumes someone or a gamer wants to pony up for another TV.
lol I browse the internet on my 65 inch LG OLED every night after and while watching the baseball game. I agree that its impossible to do it if your tv is in your living room, but i moved the CX to my gaming room and gave my wife the 75 inch Sony x900h because she cant tell the difference between OLED and LED so got away with it.

So yes, it's expensive since you are fighting over what is probably the most expensive electronic hardware in your house, but if you can afford it, id highly recommend gaming on a TV. Way better experience than on tiny monitors with shitty picture quality.
 
Console gamers will remain console gamers, while PC gamers are surely not moving anywhere. Sony's only danger is the console crowd moving to XB and giving all the subscription and royalty fees to MS', so it's up to Sony to create as attractive platform for gamers as possible, so ultimately I think it'll all be for better.

How does porting their games to PC, make PlayStation a more attractive platform for people on PlayStation? That just makes PC a more attractive platform for people on PC, and potentially PC more attractive for PlayStation gamers who take to PC in lieu of PlayStation.

Which, realistically, might just be a minority of gamers, but among them you're going to have some of the biggest spenders, and that's a lot of potentially lost money in 1P and 3P software on your console and console storefront, and only a portion of that (on the 1P software side) could potentially be made up for on PC.

Otherwise there are alternative means to integrating PC into the PS ecosystem that make the console platform more attractive, without literally porting all games to PC to do so.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member



Some people just dont want to understand that PC gamers and consoles gamers are two distinct and separate userbases. PC gamers on the whole dont give the slightest flying fuck about consoles and their games, because the reason they are PC gamers is because they like pc games more and what the pc ecosystem offers. Theyd fucking be console gamers if they'd care about console games. Same is with console players. Especially reading this very forum, you see such fanatical obsession with consoles, bordering on religious fanaticism, and yet people pretend that large masses of people will move to PC overnight ? They won't. Every PC thread here has people trying their utmost to diminish the platform and invent every absurdity in the world to justify consoles, so what are people actually afraid of ? Nothing is gonna change when sony puts their games day one on PC, other than the fact that games will be more succesful
People like convenience. And as you said, some fanbases just like sticking to their own products. It's amazing with such giant user bases people think there will be giant swaps from one to another.

Just like streaming boxes. Why would anyone pay $100-200 for a Roku box, Amazon stick or some no-name box loaded with an OS that has tons of pirated tv, movie and sports links?

You can find all that shit online for free. I use various Reddit sports stream threads myself. I also have my share of free tv show streaming sites. But it's getting to a point, I might pay up for a box so everything I watch can be easily done instead of me hopping back and forth between sites or finding a new site when the TV/movie ones gets shut down every few months.
 

SlimySnake

Member
I dont even think that were solely gamer opinions. I think that was one of the Sony exec Q&A session answers when Sony PC porting was a new thing.
Well, that just goes to show how delusional they are.

I've heard a lot of delusional talk from Sony lately. Jim Ryan wasnt satisfied with Sony exclusives finally selling 20 million units. And thats cod sales mind you. He was like I want hundreds of millions of people to play my amazing incredible games like TLOU2. And Im like you already have 120 million users and only 20 million play TLOU. Not everyone wants to play video games especially these story driven action adventure games. If you want hundreds of millions of gamers then make GTA5 because thats literally the only game thats sold more than a 100 million and even that is just 150 million. You are never ever gonna get 500 million to a billion tv audiences. Gaming and especially single player gaming will never be that big.

It's pure greed. You are finally doing cod like numbers but you still want more. Whats funny is that GTA5 only sold that much because rockstar never released a sequel for the last 9 years so technically 150/9=16 million a year. Sony sells 15 million first party games every quarter. Just be happy with what you are getting and stop going after a non-existent audience.
 

ZywyPL

Gold Member
Andrew House did an interview at the PS4 Pro reveal and said that the reason for the PS4 Pro was to offer hardcore gamers a reason to not jump ship to PC like they have in the past around the mid gen period. He said we needed them to stay in the eco system.

They need the hardcore to stay because the hardcore early adopters spend an average of a $1,000 more than the casuals late adopters during the console cycle.

In short, even Sony knew, and they numbers to back this up, that console gamers do NOT remain console gamers. Not the ones that spend the most anyway.

The PS360 gen was the longest ever, and in the last few years the games didn't even ran at 30FPS, so no wonder people moven back onto PC (myself included).

Ultimately, people are moving to PC because of framerate, not resolution the consoles are pushing for, especially on the marketing side.

So if the console manufacturers want to keep as much crowd as possible then need to make sure 60/120FPS ate present in most titles
 

Neofire

Member



Some people just dont want to understand that PC gamers and consoles gamers are two distinct and separate userbases. PC gamers on the whole dont give the slightest flying fuck about consoles and their games, because the reason they are PC gamers is because they like pc games more and what the pc ecosystem offers. Theyd fucking be console gamers if they'd care about console games. Same is with console players. Especially reading this very forum, you see such fanatical obsession with consoles, bordering on religious fanaticism, and yet people pretend that large masses of people will move to PC overnight ? They won't. Every PC thread here has people trying their utmost to diminish the platform and invent every absurdity in the world to justify consoles, so what are people actually afraid of ? Nothing is gonna change when sony puts their games day one on PC, other than the fact that games will be more succesful
The tweets are misleading imo and has false equivalencies. The first one is that this has been the only time Sony has released it's 1st party games on PC like they have. Second the tweets above your post say that "it is unlikely to cannibalize sales on ps platforms" by releasing all their 1st party games on the PC. I would like to know based on what? The individual responding to his tweet even said why would he buy a PS4/ps5 if all the games come to PC.

To be honest it's way to soon but every last PC I know has echoed what the responding person said. That if Sony releases all it's games on PC they won't have to buy a playstation. There is a reason so many PC players do not have a playstation one main reason is emulation. Sony should not be worried about PCs not buying Playstations they should be worried about Playstation owners jumping ship FROM Playstation platforms.

A few extra software sales isn't going to keep a big company like Sony afloat but I say give it about another 2-3 and we shall see the results of Sony's strategy what it yields.
 

Alphagear

Member

Sony: "Acquisition of Bungie Represents a Major Step Forward in Becoming More Multiplatform"​


It clearly says ‘More Multiplatform’.

Not Fully Multiplatform and neither Day 1.

Pretty obvious Sonys Live service games will be on ALL platforms Day 1.

The Single player games are another matter.

More chance of hell freezing than a Sony single player game releasing Day 1 on PC too.

Unless Sony want out of the Hardware market and focus on Subs and Live service games.

It would be suicide to release Day 1 on PC.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Andrew House did an interview at the PS4 Pro reveal and said that the reason for the PS4 Pro was to offer hardcore gamers a reason to not jump ship to PC like they have in the past around the mid gen period. He said we needed them to stay in the eco system.

They need the hardcore to stay because the hardcore early adopters spend an average of a $1,000 more than the casuals late adopters during the console cycle.

In short, even Sony knew, and they numbers to back this up, that console gamers do NOT remain console gamers. Not the ones that spend the most anyway.

While I can't blame House for doing this based on past data, the landscape changed in the PS4 generation considering consoles never did outdo PCs that gen outside of Sony's exclusives.

Either way, Sony now has.. more up to date data.

And none of it is about losing 0 Playstation sales. they likely know they'll sell less consoles. The point is how much, and whether the money made in the PC space more than makes up for it.. and it likely does, easily.

Hence why MS had a total garbage generation console wise but managed to continue to expand greatly revenue wise.
 

DukeNukem00

Banned
The tweets are misleading imo and has false equivalencies. The first one is that this has been the only time Sony has released it's 1st party games on PC like they have. Second the tweets above your post say that "it is unlikely to cannibalize sales on ps platforms" by releasing all their 1st party games on the PC. I would like to know based on what? The individual responding to his tweet even said why would he buy a PS4/ps5 if all the games come to PC.

To be honest it's way to soon but every last PC I know has echoed what the responding person said. That if Sony releases all it's games on PC they won't have to buy a playstation. There is a reason so many PC players do not have a playstation one main reason is emulation. Sony should not be worried about PCs not buying Playstations they should be worried about Playstation owners jumping ship FROM Playstation platforms.

A few extra software sales isn't going to keep a big company like Sony afloat but I say give it about another 2-3 and we shall see the results of Sony's strategy what it yields.

You're arguing against hard numbers with fiction and predictions of things that havent happened. What you see are just internet arguments from hardcore fans "oh, sony will not bend to my will ? oh ill just get a pc then and never buy a playstation". Its just bullshit. Also, thing about it. Even if your friends say this. They are less than nothing in the grand scheme of things. Im sure there will be a number of people who switch to pc permanently. But we are talking about a pool of hundreds of millions of people. A few thousand count for nothing.

Just look at every single pc thread made here on on reera. People cant rush fast enough to describe how shit pc is and how many issues they have and how amazing consoles are. sony will be absolutely fine.
 
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GhostOfTsu

Member
Elden Ring on PC accounted for 44% of total sales. Only a fool would ignore such a market and Sony are in the business of making money.
Nintendo however are 'tarded. If the next hardware bombs again, maybe they'll finally get on the PC ride.
Deathloop and Ghostwire were both PS5 and PC Day 1. Here are the results.


Total Flops.

Elden Ring was a once in a lifetime phenomenon. Final Fantasy Origins was also Day 1 everywhere and it didn't sell ER numbers. Same for Tiny Tina. Multiplatforms don't sell more than exclusives because they're on PC (see GOTG too).
 
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ZywyPL

Gold Member
How does porting their games to PC, make PlayStation a more attractive platform for people on PlayStation? That just makes PC a more attractive platform for people on PC, and potentially PC more attractive for PlayStation gamers who take to PC in lieu of PlayStation.

Which, realistically, might just be a minority of gamers, but among them you're going to have some of the biggest spenders, and that's a lot of potentially lost money in 1P and 3P software on your console and console storefront, and only a portion of that (on the 1P software side) could potentially be made up for on PC.

Otherwise there are alternative means to integrating PC into the PS ecosystem that make the console platform more attractive, without literally porting all games to PC to do so.

That's not what I meant. Then need to make PlayStation as much consumer friendly platform possible, not the other way around. If they'll keep being "arrogant Sony" then many people will move onto other platforms where they can play their games but without Sony's practices, like it's happening on PC now. So going multiplatform might force Sony to tone down their consumer approach, we already started to see how dramatically they have changed in the past two years since the console market isn't so one-sided anymore.
 

Neofire

Member
You're arguing against hard numbers with fiction and predictions of things that havent happened. What you see are just internet arguments from hardcore fans "oh, sony will not bend to my will ? oh ill just get a pc then and never buy a playstation". Its just bullshit. Also, thing about it. Even if your friends say this. They are less than nothing in the grand scheme of things. Im sure there will be a number of people who switch to pc permanently. But we are talking about a pool of hundreds of millions of people. A few thousand count for nothing.

Just look at every single pc thread made here on on reera. People cant rush fast enough to describe how shit pc is and how many issues they have and how amazing consoles are. sony will be absolutely fine.
Ah so you do have the statistics about this not going to impact Sony Playstation user base? Can you drop the link please so I can look at them?
 

PhaseJump

Gold Member
A lot of dumbass takes about PC gaming here.

I'm using Steam Deck and SteamOS 3 as a game console right now, and when Valve ports it to the main client, replacing big picture mode, the Linux or Windows PC on a TV argument will be even more pointless and stupid to complain about. They have a powerful Switch-like 10-foot interface console UI with game mode on the Deck, and it will completely level the playing field between Xbox, Playstation, and Switch.
 
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Hezekiah

Member
That's good to hear. I bet we will see day one pc ports by the end of this gen.
Not likely with the recent PS+ restructuring.

The gap will surely be lower though for multiplayer games in comparison to single-player games which are likely to be 18 - 24 months before they arrive on PC.
 
I'm 10000% in support of the death of exclusives. Let the only determinant of what box you buy is whether you like trophies or achievements.

Okay then. Should we also want Nintendo to bring their games to PS, Xbox, and PC as well? Day 1 even?

Why stop there; why do trophies and achievements have to be different and separate? Can't they just agree to a common rewards system shared between all games?

Don’t be that guy please don’t do it, it’s not as simple as driver and windows updated. I’ve been pc gaming since floppy disc and it has never been more complicated than it is now. Oh hey look got a memory leak because this game is optimized like shit guess I’ll manually adjust my paging file size to some absurdly high number so the ram never fills up. Damn I love this particular game it just won’t work with my PS5 controller or my wireless Xbox Elite 2….. hmm this game crashes when this is happening and runs worse on my 3090 than on my 2080ti. On PC you better be ready to spend as much time figuring how to start your games as you spend playing them.

Pc is great but convenient? Depends on how much you know. I feel bad for anyone who just dives into pc gaming that hasn’t been in it for awhile.

I've had various hiccups when playing some PC games as well, and the recent problems at launch for games like Elden Ring (or issues with ports like FF VII) have made me reconsider it as a primary platform going forward. It might be a solid replacement for certain games (or games where I may want to mod but such opportunities being very limited on console), but that's about it.

In some ways PC gaming is definitely easier than it used to be. Not that I have personal experience with old-school PC gaming (not seriously, anyway), but there was definitely a time where you needed to fiddle with IRQ settings, CPU clocks in the BIOS, etc. on a game-by-game basis like during the DOS era. Watching videos like some of the DF Retro and NXGamer old-school PC docs really help put that into perspective. Even the act of copying and moving files around back then, before Windows GUI was prevalent with Windows '95, seems like was a real chore. Then even with things like Windows '95, Plug 'n Play didn't always really work, different games only supporting very specific GPU cards, security issues (because they didn't have application-specific virtual memory isolation like today), etc.

I think PC is almost as pickup-and-play as console these days, generally. Maybe a few more things you have to be mindful of and adjust. There are still quite a few conveniences with console though, like pre-compiled shaders, and I guess generally less patch updates over time. And you always know your controller is going to work perfectly fine unless the battery is low.

And none of it is about losing 0 Playstation sales. they likely know they'll sell less consoles. The point is how much, and whether the money made in the PC space more than makes up for it.. and it likely does, easily.

Does it, though? We can look at Steam charts for MS games and get an indication. How many copies has FH5 sold on Steam? I'm genuinely asking because I haven't looked for numbers. Same with Halo Infinite. Sea of Thieves is another; I know it has had times entering the Top 10 on Steam charts, but what are the amount of sales during those periods versus the other games in the Top 10? I'm also curious how games like Quantum Break, Sunset Overdrive, and MCC sold on Steam compared to the console counterparts.

I just honestly don't think the revenue Sony could bring doing Day 1 for their releases on PC would cover the losses in reduced console sales, less 1P sales on console, and less 3P revenue on console with people buying those 1P on Steam and EGS compared to PS. Not to mention, a drop in PS+ subscription numbers, too. How much any of that drops is up for discussion but whatever it is, I don't think additional sales through PC would be enough to offset it.

At least, not if Sony are reliant on adhering to a company like Valve and their storefront, and paying Valve their 30% cut. Sony would need their own storefront or partner with someone like Epic to "essentially" make EGS an official PS storefront shared with the console (among some other things) to actually cover those potential losses in certain people going PC as a result.

That's not what I meant. Then need to make PlayStation as much consumer friendly platform possible, not the other way around. If they'll keep being "arrogant Sony" then many people will move onto other platforms where they can play their games but without Sony's practices, like it's happening on PC now. So going multiplatform might force Sony to tone down their consumer approach, we already started to see how dramatically they have changed in the past two years since the console market isn't so one-sided anymore.

Oh, so you mean more like them revising their refund policy and things like that? I can agree on those; things like their refund policy are pretty antiquated and could be changed. MS I think lets people use digital codes from other places on Xbox if they like, whereas Sony doesn't. That may be something else Sony could consider looking to changing, but I'm not necessarily sure it's that big of a deal to bother changing TBH.

The thing is, they don't need to go "multiplatform" (i.e in the sense of Day 1 for even non live-service/GaaS games on PC, or porting marquee games to Xbox and Switch) to enable those changes. They didn't need to during the PS3 gen, why would they suddenly need to now? You'd think they would want to make those changes before considering going "multiplatform" in that sense, not afterwards, right?
 
Good to hear. I hope more Sony games come to Xbox. I might actually buy a couple! I said that about HZD and GoW, and they're both on PC and I've yet to buy them. But if Sony discounts those games as much as they do on the PS4/5 then I would consider. But not going to pay more than PS4/5 owners pay!
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Does it, though? We can look at Steam charts for MS games and get an indication. How many copies has FH5 sold on Steam? I'm genuinely asking because I haven't looked for numbers. Same with Halo Infinite. Sea of Thieves is another; I know it has had times entering the Top 10 on Steam charts, but what are the amount of sales during those periods versus the other games in the Top 10? I'm also curious how games like Quantum Break, Sunset Overdrive, and MCC sold on Steam compared to the console counterparts.

I just honestly don't think the revenue Sony could bring doing Day 1 for their releases on PC would cover the losses in reduced console sales, less 1P sales on console, and less 3P revenue on console with people buying those 1P on Steam and EGS compared to PS. Not to mention, a drop in PS+ subscription numbers, too. How much any of that drops is up for discussion but whatever it is, I don't think additional sales through PC would be enough to offset it.

Well I wasn't talking day one releases for big SP games.

I think in general though "losing Playstation players for PC" is most likely going to be "losing people who almost entirely bought a Playstation for exclusives" and that's a part of the calculus of it.

Like I am mainly a PC gamer, and I only own Playstations for exclusives.. I don't buy anything else. If Sony loses me as a PS customer, I buy those games on PC... they make roughly the same amount of money.

I don't think they lose MANY people at all, and I think the people they do lose aren't likely buying tons of 3rd party content. So them switching over to PC does not have some big downside..

I know for me personally Sony releasing on PC just increases the chances I give them more money, not decreases it. I am actually more likely to buy their games because I prefer PC gaming.. so exclusives I'd have passed on on PS5 I might buy on PC just for mouse/keyboard controls and other PC-isms.

They don't really lose customers.. they move some over to PC and gain loads of NEW customers as plenty of PC gamers won't buy a console but will try some Sony games on PC.

Their current strategy is a total no brainer as releasing 1+ years later means way less people skipping PS, and many are actually likely to double dip. (ahem, as I have twice now)
 
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Ghost of Johto

Gold Member
Okay then. Should we also want Nintendo to bring their games to PS, Xbox, and PC as well? Day 1 even?

Why stop there; why do trophies and achievements have to be different and separate? Can't they just agree to a common rewards system shared between all games?
Now that you mention it...trophies and achievements should be cross play too. Thanks! If I play a game via the gamepass app on playstation I should get achievements and viceverse.
 

CosmicComet

Member
That's fine with me.

I used to buy Sony consoles not just for 3rd party exclusives but their first party exclusives too.

But besides GoW and GoT I don't care about any of their franchises anymore.

I still play on Playstation primarily but not for the 1st party exclusives, but because they have my favorite default controller shape and on that note they have the most iconic face buttons of the three console makers.

I'm ok with just playing nothing but multiplats on Sony consoles moving forward (unless Xbox consoles suddenly start massively outperforming them in DF faceoffs).

After Elden Ring came out I can't pretend their 1st party games are of some untouchable standard anyway, when the former is better than anything they've ever published.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Good to hear. I hope more Sony games come to Xbox. I might actually buy a couple! I said that about HZD and GoW, and they're both on PC and I've yet to buy them. But if Sony discounts those games as much as they do on the PS4/5 then I would consider. But not going to pay more than PS4/5 owners pay!
You are going to pay much more because you will need a PS5 to play day one PS5 releases.
 

yurinka

Member
How does porting their games to PC, make PlayStation a more attractive platform for people on PlayStation? That just makes PC a more attractive platform for people on PC, and potentially PC more attractive for PlayStation gamers who take to PC in lieu of PlayStation.
It depends: they can use old game PC ports to promote their console exclusive sequels.

Did you like Horizon 1 port in PC? Here we have the sequel a few months later, only on PS5 during at least the next 4 years.
Diid you like GoW in PC? Here we have a few months later the sequel with the 2nd half of the story. Won't be in PC until at least 4 years from now.
Same with Spider-Man, Bloodborne etc.
The console will also have a ton of great games not available on PC and a nice game subscription.

Sure, most of these PC players won't buy the console, but a portion of them will. An old game that wasn't generating revenue anymore sells some million of copies more and some consoles. If all their games would be day one on PC these console sales wouldn't happen.

And those gamers who after playing the games on PC won't buy the console pretty likely they already had the same opinion before, it would have been impossible to sell them the console or the game in another way. So you don't lose game or console sales.

I think that specially with the current strategy Piscatella is right.
 
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You are going to pay much more because you will need a PS5 to play day one PS5 releases.
Who is talking about day one though? HZD, years after release, can regularly be had for $10 on PS4. Will the PC version ever go that low? I hope, and I might actually buy it if it does. But as a PC gamer, seeing that PS4 owners can buy it for $10 and I have to pay $50 is a huge turn off. I want price parity.
 

Dream-Knife

Member
The entertaining thing about these threads is seeing how the bar keeps getting pushed, and people redefine them to say they don't mean what they're saying.
If everyone went PC Sony would not be making as much money

Sony just do the PC launcher w/ Bloodborne day 1. they will come
No, that's a quick way to just get everyone to pirate a cracked version of your game.
That really depends on what you mean when you say "going multiplat". You guys underestimate how much money people who buy 1P games on platforms like PlayStation, actually put into the ecosystem. Between buying the 1P games, also buying 3P games on the platform, spending money on DLC & MTX for the 3P games, subscribing to services like PS+, etc. Last fiscal year 1P games accounted for 18.5% of all PS revenue, the rest from 3P games. However, a lot of the people who made up that 18.5% would also make up a likely more significant portion of the 82.5% in 3P revenue, since they probably tend to spend more anyway than the typical gamer.

If the people who put into those 1P games realize they can just buy them on PC instead (as an example), then they will do so, and they will also most likely take the rest of their revenue with them to PC, away from PlayStation. That means less PS+ subscriptions, less 3P sales revenue, less revenue from 3P DLC/MTX on the platform, and less profit for Sony from games sold on Steam because they have to pay Valve a 30% fee for every copy sold on the storefront (versus on PS where Sony would retain 100% of the profit from that same 1P game on their own platform's digital storefront).

I'm not actually against the idea of more 1P games going to PC; I think it's inevitable. But I'm not with the idea that they're suddenly going to put all of their 1P games Day 1 on PC or significantly shorten the release windows between PS and PC for that. And it's crazy to think there are people believing they will bring bucketloads more of their 1P games to other consoles (at least, the PS Studios games). Can't see that happening unless they end up buying another major publisher who already did a lot of releases on other platforms, like Square-Enix, where it would not make sense to suddenly cut Nintendo out of the picture.

"Going multiplat" could mean a lot of things, the problem is different people have different definitions for that and maybe more clarification outright would be useful. Because in specific contexts, "going multiplat" seems agreeable. In other contexts, "going multiplat" sounds flat-out illogical and insensible.
If those people are tempted in the slightest by a PC, then they will already buy third party games on PC. If for nothing more than not paying an internet tax. This only hurts fanboys.
I havent experienced a memory leak since the PS360 era PC ports, but Im with Osiris on how frustrating PC gaming can be. Had to rebuild my entire PC because some parts magically failed one day and no one could figure out why. Thats ok, electronics fail, but then there are a lot of issues with peripherals despite more and more games supporting the PS4 controller. There are games like Batman AK that do not support the PS4 controller even when using DS4windows. I had to add it to the steam library to launch it from there to be able to recognize the PS4 controller. Thats just one example. Nearly every PC game I play has some kind of issue at launch.

The folks over in the PC thread can testify to some of my issues. Bought a 3080 recently and even after installing the latest firmware, it crashes nearly all of my games. I was like wtf. Turns out i have to download some third party software called DDU to remove the old install and then do a brand new install of the nvidia drivers. Like come on, why is this even a thing? After that, Red Dead 2 kept crashing until i googled and found out you had to verify the game files to fix that issue. Like come on. Yes, that fixed the issue but why is this even an issue if it needs a simple verify?

I have spent the last 30 days trying to figure out why the UE5 matrix demo keeps crashing. Spent over $50 bucks on new parts and cables, and nothing. I just hope its not an issue when UE5 games start shipping. Now im still sticking with this thing because i still like PC gaming but im not gonna pretend PC gaming has no issues in 2022.
It's a good idea to DDU anytime you change your card. If it's crashing, it could be your overclock or undervolt.



Some people just dont want to understand that PC gamers and consoles gamers are two distinct and separate userbases. PC gamers on the whole dont give the slightest flying fuck about consoles and their games, because the reason they are PC gamers is because they like pc games more and what the pc ecosystem offers. Theyd fucking be console gamers if they'd care about console games. Same is with console players. Especially reading this very forum, you see such fanatical obsession with consoles, bordering on religious fanaticism, and yet people pretend that large masses of people will move to PC overnight ? They won't. Every PC thread here has people trying their utmost to diminish the platform and invent every absurdity in the world to justify consoles, so what are people actually afraid of ? Nothing is gonna change when sony puts their games day one on PC, other than the fact that games will be more succesful
Sort of. A lot of people here play console games on PC. Most of the super demanding games are just console games with extra everything. If people just played 'PC' PC games, no one would buy highend hardware. In the PC thread people are talking about upgrading for starfield and some other big game that comes out in the next year so they can play 4k60 with RT. Those games are coming to console, and are played with a controller.

In fact, a lot of PC games come to console now. Look at ARMA, Insurgency, Hell Let Loose, etc.
 

VFXVeteran

Banned
You know better than this. Their Gaas games yes. See SFV, Predator hunting grounds, Destiny2. Single player games Uncharted, God of war, Horizin will be going to PC AFTER releasing on whatever Sony console is out and there are a few games that they’re never letting outside of their ecosystem. (We all know which games). There’s a reason they are still buying new studios same as Microsoft. Exclusive content sells hardware even if it’s timed. FFVIIR still isn’t on Xbox consoles and I doubt it will be until Remake part 2 is out if even then. Same with people holding their breath for Starfield on PS5…. Don’t it’s not happening.
I don't know which games you think Sony will never let out of their ecosystem but the ND games are coming to PC and those would be the most coveted.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member




Convenience and simplicity my ass.

On my pc i can plug any mouse of keyboard of my choice, on consoles I'm forced on a controller.

Symmetrical annoying sticks from Sony which had bad rubber peeling, or the Xbox controller with stick problems.

Give me a choice god damn it. There's no convenience and simplicity with forced bad quality control.

If it wasn't for my Xim I simply wouldn't play console.

It's easy to hear who's been playing on pc this decade.

I'm sure that if Ryan needs some edgy fanboy to ruin the company then you'll be the first he'll contact.
Bro, we get it, you’re a PC gamer. As have a lot of us been/still are,

For the average console gamer that still buys consoles, they are convenient and affordable for them. Most of them aren’t in the know about PC and assume complexity and expense.

I don’t know what you find so upsetting or offensive about that reality.
 

OsirisBlack

Member
I don't know which games you think Sony will never let out of their ecosystem but the ND games are coming to PC and those would be the most coveted.
LOL oh you know which games. I know the ND games are coming. I think the remake is going to be a pretty serious benchmark for the PS5 even though this is the third damn iteration of the game. I cannot wait to see that running on PC.
 

VFXVeteran

Banned
Console gamers will remain console gamers, while PC gamers are surely not moving anywhere. Sony's only danger is the console crowd moving to XB and giving all the subscription and royalty fees to MS', so it's up to Sony to create as attractive platform for gamers as possible, so ultimately I think it'll all be for better.
Exactly. This is the number crunching that they've already done. They will end up getting more players for the games when you add all the sales up (i.e. PS + PC). It's really as simple as that.
 
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