Those games were made when the PS4 X1 were the base spec. They were similar systems with same amount of ram. Games are now gonna be made with 16gb ram and base spec as PS5 and SX.The XSS will help to expand the gaming market that is way more important that appealing to the gaming elite. If great games could be made on the PS4 and X1 I'm certain the XSS will be fine. It is clearly more powerful than those systems.
Maybe some of the games are beyond its 1440p target?it's up to game developers not microsoft.
Oh good another xbox defender whom didnt even read the whole thread and those AAA-devs stating the same.
It is not black and white, of course in some cases worse specs limit what devs can do. Like if 16Gb is really the lowest amount that is enough to thir vision
Even when resolution is lower on xss
Why drop graphical effects/RT? What happened to MS claims? Wasn't Series S advertised as playing Series X version just at a lower resolution/1440p?starcraft clone?
anyway the ram difference is not that big once you drop resolution and graphical effects.
SX 10GB + 6GB
SS 8GB + 2GB
It's in the link addy and....this game looks like it could run on my tablet
edit: the quote from the title seems to be made up. cant find it anywhere in the article.
This makes no sense.The PS5 is also holding things back
Oh good another article about series s twisted so that people can baselessly say series s is holding back next gen. If you actually read the whole article, it says even though it wasn't much work at all to get it running. Non issue.
This is akin to todays fox news article front page saying "vaccinated person gets covid!". Omg, vaccinated people will get covid. They write an article for splash on something that is a zero issue, just like this thread. It should have read "vaccinated people need to know - you will still get covid but with mild symptoms"
This thread read "Next gen features have to be fitted to xss!!!!" When it should have read "developer says it won't take much work for xss version".
Id Software Devs Express Their Concerns Over the Xbox Series S’ Hardware Specs; Memory “Situation” Not Easy to Compensate (wccftech.com)Oh good another "Drinks the kool aide" believer who ignores the fact that all of these games are already limited by ps4, xbox one, and or pc development. Xss is the least of thier concern.
Recomended PC specs should fit into faster part of XSS memory.Wonder what they do if they found out about PC
And it gets worse when we think about the 4TF elephant in the room.Id Software Devs Express Their Concerns Over the Xbox Series S’ Hardware Specs; Memory “Situation” Not Easy to Compensate (wccftech.com)
So, this coming from talented programmers at id Software are baseless too? Fuck outta here dude.
Who's we? The fanboys you mean? I know it's fun on Gaf to poke fun at anything Microsoft but one dev has voiced his opinion on the S, that's definitely not conclusive to how the S will cope going forward. You honestly think Microsoft hasn't extensively tested all in house projects on both consoles? They built the S to run next gen games at lower resolution and without certain bells and whistles, if it couldn't do that they either would have bumped up the specs or scrapped the idea.So the weak ass console they decided to release will hold next gen back, as we all expected.
It is quite clearly put...It's in the link addy and....
The amount of available memory is a determining factor in a lot of cases when we talk about the size of a game world or about how many things can be happening within it at any given time. The size of the memory that is available in the XSS is the actual determining point for the entire console generation as gameplay features have to be fitted to the lowest spec. From the point of view of a developer it would be much easier if there was a single XSX SKU,
Two award winning AAA game engine programmers from now Xbox 1st party studio Id Software agree.
The XSS RAM is a clear issue and bottleneck. And these guys code AAA multiplats for a living. They know their shit.
They both of course sad this before Xbox bought Bethesda lol and deleted the tweets later.
Axel Gneiting - Engine Programmer at Id Software (Doom, Doom Eternal)
Billy Khan - Lead Engine Programmer at Id Software (Doom, Doom Eternal)
Id Software Devs Express Their Concerns Over the Xbox Series S’ Hardware Specs; Memory “Situation” Not Easy to Compensate
Several devs at id Software have expressed their concerns over the specs of Microsoft’s Xbox Series S, more specifically, its memory.wccftech.com
Wonder what they do if they found out about PC
Id Software Devs Express Their Concerns Over the Xbox Series S’ Hardware Specs; Memory “Situation” Not Easy to Compensate (wccftech.com)
So, this coming from talented programmers at id Software are baseless too? Fuck outta here dude.
Just drop ray tracing. Problem solved apparentlyhe have not developed for SS when he made that post.
just drop RT BVH then.
We all want much things, but consoles are consoles, do you want to pay $599 ?
Buddy you have no idea what you're talking about do you? Neither do I for that matter, but it makes no sense for Microsoft to make a console that holds back development on its other console.Just drop ray tracing. Problem solved apparently
he have not developed for SS when he made that post.
just drop RT BVH then.
We all want much things, but consoles are consoles, do you want to pay $599 ?
Buddy you have no idea what you're talking about do you? Neither do I for that matter, but it makes no sense for Microsoft to make a console that holds back development on its other console.
How is it not a generational improvement? Do you think the XSS isn't as powerful as the X1 or PS4? Of course MS is interested in making money but again only MS is interested in selling a console at a price a mass market could more easily afford. If devs need help I'm certain MS would assist in making games work for the XSS. There has been no evidence that the XSS cannot play games as well as the PS5 and XSX outside of graphical effects and resolution.Phil as a modern Che Guevara fighting against the elite... down with the gaming elite, poor people that could not afford $399 have a super easy time spending $299 an feeding their families the rest of the month with $100 (minus GamePass Ultimate) .
You know it full well it would have been a better offer that lasted a lot longer for users and made developers life easier (thus better games for everyone) if there had been a digital only 0.5-1 TB of SSD XSX at $349-399 but gotta keep circling the wagons and protect XSS from criticism.
All of that just to toss aside any concern about generational improvements or it being a clear move to push to be closer and closer to an Apple style iterative HW release of a new platform every few years with relatively small jumps across each (another company doing it to appeal to poor people unable to afford its products).
What usually takes up the most RAM space when running a game on a console? Graphical data or physics and AI?It's in the link addy and....
The amount of available memory is a determining factor in a lot of cases when we talk about the size of a game world or about how many things can be happening within it at any given time. The size of the memory that is available in the XSS is the actual determining point for the entire console generation as gameplay features have to be fitted to the lowest spec. From the point of view of a developer it would be much easier if there was a single XSX SKU,
yeah i hope SS will use whatever tflops it have on amd ai image enchancement. there is no need for RT, which should cut ram load a lotJust drop ray tracing. Problem solved apparently
he have not developed for SS when he made that post.
just drop RT BVH then.
We all want much things, but consoles are consoles, do you want to pay $599 ?
Why did you ignore this?Why drop graphical effects/RT? What happened to MS claims? Wasn't Series S advertised as playing Series X version just at a lower resolution/1440p?
phil needed to hit the $299 mark for mass market uptake. It is a brave new frontier together with gp. if it works out, more people can enjoy next gen gaming. something about blurring the hardware generations as software takes over.$399 > $599
More straw-men. It is an improvement, but meant not to leave Xbox One and One X especially behind too much. It is a different focus console for a company that clearly seems to position itself for Apple like HW releases: XSS seems to have been built to be replaced with another model in a few years. Then again, like the PS3 audience accepted loss of BC for a cheaper PS3 enabling Ryan’s lukewarm approach to it, the Xbox audience has accepted MS’s approach of selling you a new box to solve the problems the old box had... MS was going to go to devs and help them optimise for the ESRAM and close the gap... and then went into making a faster (higher clocked) Xbox One S and then the Xbox One X. I think the plan is, like Phil said actually (he said not to expect a yearly iteration like GPU’s [... for now IMHO]), to just release more powerful refreshes every few years with devs updating their minimum HW requirements based on the HW user base distribution at the time and few games (with the odd number of games pushing the newHow is it not a generational improvement? Do you think the XSS isn't as powerful as the X1 or PS4? Of course MS is interested in making money but again only MS is interested in selling a console at a price a mass market could more easily afford. If devs need help I'm certain MS would assist in making games work for the XSS. There has been no evidence that the XSS cannot play games as well as the PS5 and XSX outside of graphical effects and resolution.
phil needed to hit the $299 mark for mass market uptake. It is a brave new frontier together with gp. if it works out, more people can enjoy next gen gaming. something about blurring the hardware generations as software takes over.
and besides the $399 ps5 seems suspicious with stock situation. next week is sony earnings, let's see how they fare last quarter
Well not anymore if you are familiar with GDK, which also includes standard tools tools for the DirectX12Ultimate games. That was my point. Surely we know that it would be easier just having XSX, but still sofar it looks like it's just a config tweak.One of the very few advantages consoles have over PC gaming is that devs develop for a single hardware so they optimize it far better than PCs. Now they can't even have that with Xbox so it makes sense to complain.
Imagine the shitstorm if major third party developer drops support for XSS, because RAM limitations.
Well not anymore if you are familiar with GDK, which also includes standard tools tools for the DirectX12Ultimate games. That was my point. Surely we know that it would be easier just having XSX, but still sofar it looks like it's just a config tweak.
Which is still lower than XSS, so... I don't know. The differnce between good devs and bad ones, is that good ones optimalise their codebase.
Isn't true tho?Lol at using the word "optimalise" while patronising game developers.
Compete in what exactly? PCs nowadas are always more powerful than consoles. One example is that 16xAF is gold standard in PC games for 20 years and it's still not utilised across the board on consoles. So... Like if you compare same hardware, than sure, if you compare the price of the devices, than sure. But not sure what you exactly meant.No matter how many tools companies make they'll never be able to compete with having just one hardware version. Never.
Lower clockspeed and reduced amount of shared resources could indeed impact geometry processing sure. You could drop resolution some more and use Mesh Shaders to process primitives in software and try to reduce that burden but yes it hurts still.I think that XSS will also be a limiting factor in matter of number of polygons used for game world/characters for third party games since its geometry throughput is significantly lower (only one shader engine+lower frequency) than PS5/XSX.
I’m quoting the guy who has no clue, by simply saying dropping RT solved everything.Buddy you have no idea what you're talking about do you? Neither do I for that matter, but it makes no sense for Microsoft to make a console that holds back development on its other console.
How do you know how much the XSX BOM is vs the XSS? And what is this party line nonsense? How is a $399 price of a PS5 better than a $299 price of a XSS when you can't afford $399? Just because you have the disposable income doesn't mean everyone does. Are you following the company line from Sony PS3 days about "working harder" to afford one?More straw-men. It is an improvement, but meant not to leave Xbox One and One X especially behind too much. It is a different focus console for a company that clearly seems to position itself for Apple like HW releases: XSS seems to have been built to be replaced with another model in a few years. Then again, like the PS3 audience accepted loss of BC for a cheaper PS3 enabling Ryan’s lukewarm approach to it, the Xbox audience has accepted MS’s approach of selling you a new box to solve the problems the old box had... MS was going to go to devs and help them optimise for the ESRAM and close the gap... and then went into making a faster (higher clocked) Xbox One S and then the Xbox One X. I think the plan is, like Phil said actually (he said not to expect a yearly iteration like GPU’s [... for now IMHO]), to just release more powerful refreshes every few years with devs updating their minimum HW requirements based on the HW user base distribution at the time and few games (with the odd number of games pushing the new
Being more powerful helps, but it requires more and more power differential to make for a visible generational change (memory is part of this equation too).
The generation has barely started and we are seeing resolution dropping quite a bit and effects (in cases RT too) and sometimes framerate too...
Again, you know full well, full well, that a digital only $349-399 XSX with 0.5-1 TB of SSD would have been a far far better choice than the current XSS and not dissimilar in terms of affordability. Cannot admit it because that would imply goof against the party line? If not that why?
Isn't true tho?
Compete in what exactly? PCs nowadas are always more powerful than consoles. One example is that 16xAF is gold standard in PC games for 20 years and it's still not utilised across the board on consoles. So... Like if you compare same hardware, than sure, if you compare the price of the devices, than sure. But not sure what you exactly meant.
This makes no sense.
This thread is about XSS and its limited RAM holding back games. Why mention PS5 specifically and leave out XSX then?imagine thinking that 16gb of ram that's shared with v-ram and memory is enough is plenty and lets not even talk about the GPU that targets 4k. It's bottleneck city everywhere.
Why do I need to worry, MS has an infinite war chest, right?How do you know how much the XSX BOM is vs the XSS?
sure, $299 vs $399 is where you go from being able to put food on your table or not (as if $299 were peanuts). How about something worse than XSS for even less then, why stop there? I do not believe your argument is genuine, sorry. I just do not.And what is this party line nonsense? How is a $399 price of a PS5 better than a $299 price of a XSS when you can't afford $399? Just because you have the disposable income doesn't mean everyone does. Are you following the company line from Sony PS3 days about "working harder" to afford one?
Because you choose not to think about RAM limitations impeding design, or do not see games being able to build gameplay enhancing features with the power available on the GPU (one could have a 1440p or less game with DRS that uses the rest of the GPU performance in the XSX for gameplay enhancing calculations... what do you do on the XSS?) does not means others should. Choice is often let the XSS underperform or design the game around the XSX and brute force things that easily scale upwards.The most important thing to this gen was an improvement in the CPU capability of the console from last gen. Can you prove that the XSS fails to deliver in that aspect? The developer even stated "The best thing about the current architecture is that the CPU power on both Xbox models is practically the same. Scaling graphical effects is a lot easier than scaling gameplay." Yet everyone here is harping on how gameplay is effected.
Essentially “XSS could have been worse, MS did not do a horrible job at it” seems like rave reviews for a public interview .Anyways it is still work added onto developers’ already busy backlog which punishes you more the more ambitious your title is... certainly not the promise of exactly the same experience as the XSX at 1440p as people were pushing it back then (even at 1080p it is a stretch if you want RT too).Talk to MS get assistance in fitting your games into memory. Maybe use velocity architecture, maybe use VRS. There available features on the XSS that will make it easier to develop in the confines of the device. Another quote "From the point of view of a developer it would be much easier if there was a single XSX SKU, but given the circumstances I think that Microsoft has made good choices in how to create a much cheaper console, that can still run next-generation games." MS goal was to get more consoles in more people's hands not appealing to the tech enthusiast who wants cutting edge graphics and effects. There are always products that appeal to high end users not so much on the lower end. It's on MS to ensure their philosophy works but they are right to follow it.
This thread is about XSS and its limited RAM holding back games. Why mention PS5 specifically and leave out XSX then?
This thread is about XSS and its limited RAM holding back games. Why mention PS5 specifically and leave out XSX then?
Lol they suddently caring about holding things back.
Then don't release it for the xbox? oh wait.
The PS5 is also holding things back
Do we have devs complaining about 16GB of RAM on PS5?imagine thinking that 16gb of shared ram is plenty, and lets not even talk about the GPU that targets 4k. It's bottleneck city everywhere. He wants more performance build it for PC's. Otherwise fall in line and strip your game to run on those potato's.
Wonder what they do if they found out about PC
Yes in some cases it might well be, in some others XSX might... and? Making the situation worse for devs is now preferable because reasons? Trying to say that XSS is a lot closer to XSX than PS5 where it matters?