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Returnal is voted the best game of 2021 by The Guardian

Superwave

Banned
The game should save after each world but also have a one life mode that has the sole gold trophy and bragging rights and the "real" ending.

Great gameplay, but could DEFINITELY have been structured better, in a way that would give better longevity also.
 
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tommib

Member
The game should save after each world but also have a one life mode that has the sole gold trophy and bragging rights and the "real" ending.

Great gameplay, but could DEFINITELY have been structured better, in a way that would give better longevity also.
How would you solve the narrative, with Selene being trapped on the crash loop? Your ship is your hub. Would you have the ship appearing on each level?
 

Con-Z-epT

Gold Member
The game should save after each world but also have a one life mode that has the sole gold trophy and bragging rights and the "real" ending.
No GIF

Great gameplay, but could DEFINITELY have been structured better, in a way that would give better longevity also.
The game is very specific in its core structure and i think any major change in that would butcher the vision of Housemarque. I easily got 120 hours out of it and all though an arcade mode or a horde mode would be appreciated i don't think the lack of longevity is a problem that this game has.
 
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SlimySnake

Member
How would you solve the narrative, with Selene being trapped on the crash loop? Your ship is your hub. Would you have the ship appearing on each level?
Nah, the three world structure is fine. Hades has a 3 world structure with a mini 4th world that you can skip. It results in quick 30 minute runs which keep the game from getting too long or frustrating if you die.

The thing is Returnal's runs are 1-2 hours especially when you are starting out. They let you skip half the levels, and dont make you fight the boss, but you still only have one life. Getting an extra life is tied to RNG. In Hades, you get three lives after you have leveled up AND several options to replenish those lives.

Housemarquee just made this game hard for no reason. They were going for Souls mode while also chasing rougelikes. They ended up making a game that is harder and less rewarding than both Hades and Dark Souls. No one would even be asking for a ship in every level if the game was balanced well and rewarded every run. None of the early Hades runs felt like a waste because I was able to permenantly upgrade my damage, my heath bars, and my revive tokens along with 40 other skills. In returnal, there is no permanent unlock other than weapon attributes which dont even unlock unless you earn weapon proficiency in every run. It's just a shitty system that discourages repeated playthroughs which is a cardinal sin for a rougelike game.
 

Superwave

Banned
"Vision" matter for not much when it was one of the least completed games of the year. That signifies a problem.

Instead of making it replayable over every level they made it so you see the 1st level 90% of the time, and you have crappy guns most of the time. That's just not a good structure. The vast majority of users experienced only the worst of this game. Great vision.
 
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Hestar69

Member
my friend LOATHES this game so much.Says it's one of the worst 60 he's ever spent..Crazy that all I see is praise for the game.I wish he lived closer or I had a ps5 to try it out...Maybe next year when they're not hard to find I can get one and play demons souls and this.
 
my friend LOATHES this game so much.Says it's one of the worst 60 he's ever spent..Crazy that all I see is praise for the game.I wish he lived closer or I had a ps5 to try it out...Maybe next year when they're not hard to find I can get one and play demons souls and this.

I was on the fence about my purchase, for at least 30 minutes, then after that, I was hooked. First "Rogue-Like" experience for me, hoping for some DLC in 22'.
 

FrankWza

Member
How would you solve the narrative, with Selene being trapped on the crash loop? Your ship is your hub. Would you have the ship appearing on each level?
the only way would be to tie a an extra life or level up item it to a boss room once you’ve beaten it. This also gives you incentive to not rush through after you’ve cleared it and makes risk/reward more palatable.
 

kyoji

Member
"Vision" matter for not much when it was one of the least completed games of the year. That signifies a problem.

Instead of making it replayable over every level they made it so you see the 1st level 90% of the time, and you have crappy guns most of the time. That's just not a good structure. The vast majority of users experienced only the worst of this game. Great vision.
What?
 
My take on Returnal:

Each of the two big shooter games that have come out this year which I've played - Deathloop and this - have been pretty new experiences to me.

Deathloop feels like Dishonored with a far more minimalist plot and a kinda casino'y sleazy atmosphere.

Returnal is, to me, basically Metroid Prime with a hugely rebalanced set of priorities. Speed of navigation is increased, combat is streamlined and made more of a focus, Samus talks this time.

Everyone who said they played a bit of it and returned it, or whatever, are only saying one thing: it was more important for them to assert superiority and hate this game than it was to put in the effort to complete it.

Frankly you're the last people whose opinions anyone interested in a valid take should listen to.

If you put in just a few hours of gameplay, like with pretty much any game, everything starts doubling up, the sauce thickens, the plot deepens, the guns and enemies differentiate, the levels hold new plots and surprises.

Returnal is Metroid Prime with a more mature, less linearly told plot and a couple of decades of gaming advances in it, and a greater emphasis on fast paced action.

It could easily be goty. Many people will say it is because of its amazing atmosphere and technology. Others will, just suckle at a salt shaker.
Its really like metroid prime (another series of games i have not played as Nintendo doesn't put them on the switch :messenger_loudly_crying:)....
I'd love to try this ,but until Sony wants to sell me a ps5, its not happening anytime soon.
 

Con-Z-epT

Gold Member
Nah, the three world structure is fine. Hades has a 3 world structure with a mini 4th world that you can skip. It results in quick 30 minute runs which keep the game from getting too long or frustrating if you die.
You can't skip The Temple Of Styx. 30 min if you are an experienced player but initially we are talking about an hour for a run.
The thing is Returnal's runs are 1-2 hours especially when you are starting out. They let you skip half the levels, and dont make you fight the boss, but you still only have one life. Getting an extra life is tied to RNG. In Hades, you get three lives after you have leveled up AND several options to replenish those lives.

Housemarquee just made this game hard for no reason. They were going for Souls mode while also chasing rougelikes. They ended up making a game that is harder and less rewarding than both Hades and Dark Souls. No one would even be asking for a ship in every level if the game was balanced well and rewarded every run. None of the early Hades runs felt like a waste because I was able to permenantly upgrade my damage, my heath bars, and my revive tokens along with 40 other skills. In returnal, there is no permanent unlock other than weapon attributes which dont even unlock unless you earn weapon proficiency in every run. It's just a shitty system that discourages repeated playthroughs which is a cardinal sin for a rougelike game.
Why do you not mention all the abilities you acquire or the artifacts and consumables that can be unlocked at the monolith in the beginning? All that is permanent progression. And then you discredit the fact that you have to play the game to upgrade weapon attributes?

Hades and Returnal are quite different where one is a rouge-lite and the other caters more to the side of a true roguelike in which you usually don't have any progression whatsoever. To compare these two games side by side doesn't make all that much sense if you think about it.

The game actually encourages you through pitch perfect gameplay and a huge variety of rng to play it again and again. In fact the variety that Returnal provides through its random nature is far bigger than what you get in Hades. There are people out there who are satisfied with good gameplay even without constant numbers growing up that will pad them on the back. Returnal is balanced perfectly but it seem you have a hard time to understand that, while you are busy to project something into it that the game never sets out to accomplish.
 
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Hestar69

Member
I was on the fence about my purchase, for at least 30 minutes, then after that, I was hooked. First "Rogue-Like" experience for me, hoping for some DLC in 22'.
I'm not really into rouge like games but returnal looks good. My friend has 2 biomes left but uninstalled it "waste of space on my hard drive" and bought and got Guardians..Never seen him hate a game this much since fortnite lol
 

mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
One is all we need! 🙌🏼☝🏼

Perfect excuse to post a video I made of this great game. Housemarque we're looking forward to what youve got for us next!

WHOA! This is Returnal?! I never looked at any footage of anything after the 2nd Biome. Which game would you guys say is harder? Returnal or the Demon Souls Remake?
 

Jigsaah

Gold Member
I heard good things, wish I could play it though. I had to go with Deathloop for my GOTY. It had similar qualities to Returnal from what I understand. Roguelike, interesting setting, interesting story. Deathloop had a rocky release, but since the updates its a much better game.

Returnal has always looked like a great game and I thought it would be GOTY. Congrats to Sony and HouseMarque.
 

T0minator

Member
WHOA! This is Returnal?! I never looked at any footage of anything after the 2nd Biome. Which game would you guys say is harder? Returnal or the Demon Souls Remake?

It gets pretty creepy in later biomes. The game is almost a horror game lol but it's a close one between Demon Souls and Returnal. I'd say I enjoyed Returnals gameplay mechanics alot more than most games
 

SlimySnake

Member
Returnal is balanced perfectly but it seem you have a hard time to understand that, while you are busy to project something into it that the game never sets out to accomplish.

By that logic we can never criticize any game because their flaws can be dismissed as design choices. That would leave us with just bugs as the topic of criticism. Nah, I don’t want to discuss games like that.
 

Con-Z-epT

Gold Member
By that logic we can never criticize any game because their flaws can be dismissed as design choices. That would leave us with just bugs as the topic of criticism. Nah, I don’t want to discuss games like that.
It is more about the fact that you leave out integral information in your "comparison" together with a highly subjective depiction of the matter that will give anyone who haven't played the game a distorted picture of the game.
 

mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
It gets pretty creepy in later biomes. The game is almost a horror game lol but it's a close one between Demon Souls and Returnal. I'd say I enjoyed Returnals gameplay mechanics alot more than most games

Both are challenging in their own way and need you to "git gud" but you have many more options in Demon's Souls to make the game easier.

Returnal. Much harder.

Welp, that helps. I guess I know which game will be the last one I play before Horizon 2 comes out. Demon Souls it is!
 

BuddyLaDouche

Neo Member
Returnal was incredible and made me realize how much I missed and enjoyed getting my ass kicked. There are no "trash mobs" in this game. Every enemy can end your run if you're sloppy. It's a modern take on "Nintendo-Hard" to steal from another thread going right now, and I loved every minute of it. Ended up getting the Platinum and uninstalling immediately though, as it's not meant to be something you play forever. You're supposed to "break the loop" and once you do, you can walk away satisfied. Took me around 60 hours and is definitely my game of the year.
 

tommib

Member
It gets pretty creepy in later biomes. The game is almost a horror game lol but it's a close one between Demon Souls and Returnal. I'd say I enjoyed Returnals gameplay mechanics alot more than most games
It’s 100% a horror game. And the high-difficulty plays a big part in raising the anxiety and desperation levels. It’s some bleak and pitch-dark stuff they created. You’re constantly thinking that you should really not be on that planet and that something’s really off and that everything’s fucked. It almost has a Carpenter cosmic end of the world vibe.
 

SlimySnake

Member
It is more about the fact that you leave out integral information in your "comparison" together with a highly subjective depiction of the matter that will give anyone who haven't played the game a distorted picture of the game.
I did no such thing. The permanent unlocks you brought up are just things that get added to the loot pool. There is no permanent unlock system where you upgrade your health, add more revive tokens, give your character more damage, better rng and literally 100 other skills and abilities you can permanently unlock in hades. Not to mention the fact that you can upgrade them too.

Hell even unlocking new items just dillutes the loot pool with needless items you don’t need. I just want the damn astronaut figure but after unlocking those random items they make getting the astronaut figure even harder. Which is why that should’ve been a permanent unlock and not tied to rng.

Their weapon proficiency stuff also limits the weapon traits. Again just because you unlock those traits doesn’t mean you can use them. They are tied to rng and another system called weapon proficiency which limits the number of traits you can have in each run until you level up the gun by grinding out encounters every run. Which in turn increases the run times.

Hades on the other hand simply lets you use the weapon traits you unlocked. No rng. No bullshit proficiency system that keeps you from using the perks you worked so hard to unlock. If you unlock something it stays unlocked for you to select. That’s called a permanent unlock.

Anyone who has played both games knows this.
 
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T0minator

Member
It’s 100% a horror game. And the high-difficulty plays a big part in raising the anxiety and desperation levels. It’s some bleak and pitch-dark stuff they created. You’re constantly thinking that you should really not be on that planet and that something’s really off and that everything’s fucked. It almost has a Carpenter cosmic end of the world vibe.

That's true, they should definitely label it as a horror game... Idk how many times I slowly walked into a new area legitimately scared to walk into something that's going to kill me and end my run lol... The game is so awesome
 

Con-Z-epT

Gold Member
I did no such thing.
Sure Jan GIF


You took your time to elaborate how the average playtime in Returnal results. For Hades you said it takes 30 min to clear the game and that is far from true when you start out. Not to mention the false information about how you could skip the 4th biome in Hades. Then you left out parts of the meta progression from Returnal.
The permanent unlocks you brought up are just things that get added to the loot pool. There is no permanent unlock system where you upgrade your health, add more revive tokens, give your character more damage, better rng and literally 100 other skills and abilities you can permanently unlock in hades. Not to mention the fact that you can upgrade them too.
It is still meta progression. Just because you dismiss that doesn't change the fact.

Returnal is much harder on a base level and it needs time to get used to everything. It is easy to find something you like and say the rest is bad but if you know the value of each part and how to use it the rng is well balanced. These two games have vastly different goals and although they may have a rouge nature in common it doesn't make all that much sense to run a direct comparison. Apples and oranges.
Hell even unlocking new items just dillutes the loot pool with needless items you don’t need. I just want the damn astronaut figure but after unlocking those random items they make getting the astronaut figure even harder. Which is why that should’ve been a permanent unlock and not tied to rng.
Every item is quite valuable if you know how to use it. The existence of an item or artifact and its availability are different things.
Their weapon proficiency stuff also limits the weapon traits.
Not true! Weapon traits have nothing to do with weapon proficiency. Proficiency just determines how high the level of the weapon will be, not what traits it will inherent.
Hades on the other hand simply lets you use the weapon traits you unlocked. No rng. No bullshit proficiency system that keeps you from using the perks you worked so hard to unlock. If you unlock something it stays unlocked for you to select. That’s called a permanent unlock.
Just because it is tied to rng and not always available doesn't make the unlock not permanent.
Anyone who has played both games knows this.
I got the platinum for both games.

You are trying really hard to shit on Returnal with half-knowledge information and a highly biased stance on the game. If you feel the need for some "comparisons" than at least put everything into an objective position for both titles.
 
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SlimySnake

Member
Sure Jan GIF


You took your time to elaborate how the average playtime in Returnal results. For Hades you said it takes 30 min to clear the game and that is far from true when you start out. Not to mention the false information about how you could skip the 4th biome in Hades. Then you left out parts of the meta progression from Returnal.

It is still meta progression. Just because you dismiss that doesn't change the fact.

Returnal is much harder on a base level and it needs time to get used to everything. It is easy to find something you like and say the rest is bad but if you know the value of each part and how to use it the rng is well balanced. These two games have vastly different goals and although they may have a rouge nature in common it doesn't make all that much sense to run a direct comparison. Apples and oranges.

Every item is quite valuable if you know how to use it. The existence of an item or artifact and its availability are different things.

Not true! Weapon traits have nothing to do with weapon proficiency. Proficiency just determines how high the level of the weapon will be, not what traits it will inherent.

Just because it is tied to rng and not always available doesn't make the unlock not permanent.

I got the platinum for both games.

You are trying really hard to shit on Returnal with half-knowledge information and a highly biased stance on the game. If you feel the need for some "comparisons" than at least put everything into an objective position for both titles.
Nah you think some criticism of you favorite game means i am shitting on the game. Take a step back and stop getting triggered like a snowflake and maybe you will understand what I’m saying.

You have platinumed hades and yet still you cannot tell the difference between its permanent unlock systems and what returnal? Then you are being disingenuous, period. I got no time for you.

You have platinumed returnal and you still don’t understand how the proficiency levels keep you from getting weapons with MORE traits? Yeah I’m done. I got no time for trolls.

Returnal was my goty runner up when i made the mid year goty awards thread. I have said on multiple times it’s a fantastic game including in my hades comparison thread which seem to have triggered fanboys like you. And I’m biased. Big fucking lol. Stop wasting my time and go torture some other poster.
 
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Zimmy68

Member
I railed against this game from the beginning. From the non binary lead character to the $70 price tag, to the rouge like game play.
I wanted to hate it.
I got it on sale for around $49 a few months ago. Played about 20 minutes and quit because I hated it.

Since I beat the games I was playing (Far Cry 6) and with nothing to play, I decided to give it a fair shake.

I learned the mechanics and currency. It still was unfairly punishing. I decided to delete the game and played the unpatched version.
Boom, I made it to the end boss of biome 1 and beat him on the first try. It was much more forgiving and gave up more obilites.

Now, I can't stop playing. Each run is a great experience and I don't mind dying.

I'm eating my big helping of crow. Love the game.

There should still be an easy mode where they can tweak some settings like your weapon proficiency doesn't go down on death, etc.
 
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GametimeUK

Member
I'm currently playing through this game and whilst I really enjoy the controls and combat, I really hate the roguelike element to it. Overall the game is great, but restarting after every death just isn't for me.
 

T0minator

Member
Anybody that didn't even attempt to play this game because of the look of the main character needs help mentally.

It's really disturbing how some gamers think when they're tied to a plastic box...and it's skews their opinions in even more disturbing ways.

I'm hoping Housemarque continues on with Returnal or something with an even more hardcore and dark setting. DLC would be great to see 👍🏼
 

SLB1904

Member
Anybody that didn't even attempt to play this game because of the look of the main character needs help mentally.

It's really disturbing how some gamers think when they're tied to a plastic box...and it's skews their opinions in even more disturbing ways.

I'm hoping Housemarque continues on with Returnal or something with an even more hardcore and dark setting. DLC would be great to see 👍🏼
Fucking idiots that's what they are, is not even worth engaging go straight to ignore list

She is whatever woke agenda wanted her to be. That is my point. Ellen in space.

Is that what you say to your mother?
Ellen in the kitchen?

Yeah selene is a mother wjo went to space[/quote]
 
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Zimmy68

Member
I'm currently playing through this game and whilst I really enjoy the controls and combat, I really hate the roguelike element to it. Overall the game is great, but restarting after every death just isn't for me.
My advice is to focus on completing the first biome.
Like I mentioned, I did it with the unpatched day zero version which I think makes things a little easier.
I got so many more oblites and was able to purchase upgrades.
I went back to the patched version after that.
After that, you get the melee weapon and the ability to play daily challenges which hones your skills without the stress of continuing.
My next goal is to beat biome 2 which gives you the grappling hook.
I learned the save scrum technique which has made it much more rewarding.
Get all your attributes and weapons proficiency as you like it, then do the save scrum. (suspend game, quit, upload to cloud, load game and if you die, quit and load the cloud save).
It is a nice workaround for the no save. The game loads so fast it isn't an issue.

I'm currently at the second boss with all of my saved gear.
Having trouble but it is lots of fun and I can keep repeating from the start of the fight.

Love this game!
 
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SLB1904

Member
I'm currently playing through this game and whilst I really enjoy the controls and combat, I really hate the roguelike element to it. Overall the game is great, but restarting after every death just isn't for me.
I had the same feeling as you. But the game gets easier as you go. My advice. Explore everything before you move forward. If you run straight to the boss you won't make it. Just try to not get hit. Get loads of healthy. And if you get the item that removed malfunction go ahead and get the health packs with the chance of giving you malfunction. Some malfunction aren't as bad l8ke fall damaged. Once you get 2 malfunction use the item to remove profit

Also parasites are great. Some of them doesn't worth the trade off but most are great. For example there is one that revives you and give malfunction(isn't that great but is good if you have the astronaut) that means you have to revival. Other parasite regenerate your health when Is low love that one as well.

Edit: also weapons gets stronger as you use them. That's the most important part.
 
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[Sigma]

Member
Welp, that helps. I guess I know which game will be the last one I play before Horizon 2 comes out. Demon Souls it is!
Eh idunno. Returnal is pretty much a shell of its former self at this point when it comes to overall difficulty.
 
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I like returnal overall so far. There’s a lot of improvement to be made for a sequel though. Lotta jank, some bugs, some things really don’t make sense.

I’ve only now just beat the first cycle though, so my opinion is still forming. I like Selene and the shooting feels good, sound design is really good as well.
 
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Fredrik

Gold Member
If Deathloop can get perfect scores with many publications and be considered the best game ever, why can’t Returnal win some awards and even game of the year?
Less popular genre. With 500k copies sold you shouldn’t expect that everyone has played Returnal, and if they haven’t - no vote.

I haven’t played it either, still waiting for a proper price drop, still 849kr (93.86 USD) in my country and while I understand it’s a great game I’m not paying that much.
 
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GametimeUK

Member
My advice is to focus on completing the first biome.
Like I mentioned, I did it with the unpatched day zero version which I think makes things a little easier.
I got so many more oblites and was able to purchase upgrades.
I went back to the patched version after that.
After that, you get the melee weapon and the ability to play daily challenges which hones your skills without the stress of continuing.
My next goal is to beat biome 2 which gives you the grappling hook.
I learned the save scrum technique which has made it much more rewarding.
Get all your attributes and weapons proficiency as you like it, then do the save scrum. (suspend game, quit, upload to cloud, load game and if you die, quit and load the cloud save).
It is a nice workaround for the no save. The game loads so fast it isn't an issue.

I'm currently at the second boss with all of my saved gear.
Having trouble but it is lots of fun and I can keep repeating from the start of the fight.

Love this game!

I had the same feeling as you. But the game gets easier as you go. My advice. Explore everything before you move forward. If you run straight to the boss you won't make it. Just try to not get hit. Get loads of healthy. And if you get the item that removed malfunction go ahead and get the health packs with the chance of giving you malfunction. Some malfunction aren't as bad l8ke fall damaged. Once you get 2 malfunction use the item to remove profit

Also parasites are great. Some of them doesn't worth the trade off but most are great. For example there is one that revives you and give malfunction(isn't that great but is good if you have the astronaut) that means you have to revival. Other parasite regenerate your health when Is low love that one as well.

Edit: also weapons gets stronger as you use them. That's the most important part.

Guys I've beat the game now. 🤣. My issue with the game still stands. In Hades I didn't mind it so much, but in Returnal you can play for an hour, wipe your run and feel like you achieved absolutely nothing. I despise that aspect of it and I'll never enjoy it. Also, I refuse to scum save my way through a game that isn't intended to be played that way.

I did however enjoy the game a hell of a lot and one of the biomes and it's boss is pretty much one of the levels in a game I have ever played in my life. So amazing.

GOTY contender for sure, but I HATE restarting in this game.
 
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Less popular genre. With 500k copies sold you shouldn’t expect that everyone has played Returnal, and if they haven’t - no vote.

I haven’t played it either, still waiting for a proper price drop, still 849kr (93.86 USD) in my country and while I understand it’s a great game I’m not paying that much.
Game awards are weird imo. I figured it would be based on popularity a little more to get votes and recognition and games like COD or even Fortnite would clean up each year effortlessly. It seems like less popularity and sales equates more to be a candidate for GOTY. It Takes Two and Sekiro for example won an awards recently and I doubt those sold millions and are widely popular.

Wow, that is too expensive. I really enjoyed Returnal, but I can’t blame you for waiting for a price drop on that one.
 
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