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REPLACED Devs: Microsoft Partnership Has No Cons “They Actually Care About the Indie Market”

EDMIX

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You said a whole lot to deny what you're actually doing, and did in fact more or less say. You're saying that they can't be trusted just because they entered into an arrangement where they receive funding from Microsoft to build their game. That's what you said. You didn't say it about anybody else other than the company at the subject of this thread, so yes, you did only say it about Microsoft, and it's pretty obvious why you said it. I don't know why you're trying to dance around it because you were called out.

Arrangements like this exist in every industry under the sun. So everybody that gets money to perform a job or to fund a project is basically someone who can't be trusted by your logic, or is most likely lying, even when evidence supports what they're saying? The things they mention as being advantages of partnering with Microsoft are things that have already been proven true, so I don't get what is there for you to question about their honesty on the matter.

1 - Their game is indeed receiving loads more marketing reach because of their partnership with Microsoft.
2 - Their game is likely to be tried by a larger number of people thanks to its availability on Game Pass.

smh, you triggered man.

Someone is funding, marketing, promoting their game etc, they won't saw much that would harm that, thus we can't take much from such comments.

Regardless of company.

Added to ignored. You too triggered for this man lol, relax.

D DeltaPolarBear Agreed

kingfey kingfey THANK YOU! Its not even saying some dev doesn't truly and honestly think this, but this is business, the act of funding, promoting, marketing etc means they have skin in the game. Thus, I can't take what the say at face value anymore then a person working at walmart telling me how their job is while their boss is hovering over them.

I would not expect them to tell me all the details in a situation that would harm their employment. I'm not even sure why anyone would expect them to just throw MS under the bus while MS IS FUNDING lol Unlikely. We just hear about stuff after they leave or part ways or some expose' etc.
 
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MrFunSocks

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That's literally impossible though, because there are hundreds of indie games published on these console platforms. If you are promoting everyone, you are promoting no one.

Dev says my game is great. Sony thinks it isn't. Then the dev complains Sony doesn't promote his game on the homepage.
It's not just about promoting though, if you'd read the other thread you'd know that. The people that *support* the devs just seem to not care unless you're one of their darling indies. They just wouldn't reply to the devs. Answering emails and phone calls and giving support should be the absolute bare minimum that they provide to every single dev that contacts them. They also charge a ridiculous amount for any promotion, and on top of that they don't even let the devs put their game on sale when and how they want to.
 
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Oct 16, 2017
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So Twinfinite interviews a developer from Sad Cat Studios and in your mind it's just another example of evil Microsoft?
Not evil. Just lying. it is very important to know when someone is lying to you. Especially in this case when it isn't even hard to spot. It's called "Critical Thinking", and back in highschool 2 decades ago there was a whole session dedicated to poke holes in a news article, to teach us never to take words at face value.

Know when you are being lied to is important. Truth matters.
 

Heisenberg007

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It's not just about promoting though, if you'd read the other thread you'd know that. The people that *support* the devs just seem to not care unless you're one of their darling indies. They just wouldn't reply to the devs. Answering emails and phone calls and giving support should be the absolute bare minimum that they provide to every single dev that contacts them. They also charge a ridiculous amount for any promotion, and on top of that they don't even let the devs put their game on sale when and how they want to.
Emails / responses = I agree. They absolutely should improve on that area if they are lacking.
$$ for promotion = That's not exclusive to Sony. Here is a direct quote from the Kotaku article that broke this story:

From official paperwork we’ve seen, those fees can reach six figures for just a weekend’s promotion. We’re also told that Microsoft runs similar payment schemes for the Xbox store.

If Microsoft also runs similar payment schemes, then isn't this just the industry rates that Sony is charging, just like every other store? Which means both MS and Sony are charging prices that are likely fair and could not be lowered. Otherwise, one of them would have done it by now to gain a competitive advantage.
 

JWhiskey

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Apr 5, 2021
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Not evil. Just lying. it is very important to know when someone is lying to you. Especially in this case when it isn't even hard to spot. It's called "Critical Thinking", and back in highschool 2 decades ago there was a whole session dedicated to poke holes in a news article, to teach us never to take words at face value.

Know when you are being lied to is important. Truth matters.
Ah I see.. so you you seem to be saying that Microsoft sent this dev out to lie for them, mainly by saying that there are no cons to a Gamepass deal.

But in looking at the interview and using something I learned way back in middle school called "reading comprehension" I see that the dev lists the possibility of their game being lost by being included in with all the other Gamepass titles as a potential con. He also seems to be taking a wait and see attitude on the claim that Gamepass increases sales.

So please help me out by pointing to the lies Microsoft is having this developer tell for them.

Is it "that Microsoft actually cares about the indie market" or that they "give a chance to small studios to actually produce something and provide marketing awareness to people"? Maybe it's the part that Microsoft "provide(s) funding and marketing reach"?

I mean I'm just grasping at straws here as to which lines are the whoppers. Maybe you can just quote the lines you feel are the best examples of Microsoft's decietfulness.
 
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MagnesG

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smh, you triggered man.

Someone is funding, marketing, promoting their game etc, they won't saw much that would harm that, thus we can't take much from such comments.

Regardless of company.

Added to ignored. You too triggered for this man lol, relax.

D DeltaPolarBear Agreed

kingfey kingfey THANK YOU! Its not even saying some dev doesn't truly and honestly think this, but this is business, the act of funding, promoting, marketing etc means they have skin in the game. Thus, I can't take what the say at face value anymore then a person working at walmart telling me how their job is while their boss is hovering over them.

I would not expect them to tell me all the details in a situation that would harm their employment. I'm not even sure why anyone would expect them to just throw MS under the bus while MS IS FUNDING lol Unlikely. We just hear about stuff after they leave or part ways or some expose' etc.
Says you. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Just chill man. I don't think you're this critical when it comes to your favorite box.
 

longdi

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It's not just about promoting though, if you'd read the other thread you'd know that. The people that *support* the devs just seem to not care unless you're one of their darling indies. They just wouldn't reply to the devs. Answering emails and phone calls and giving support should be the absolute bare minimum that they provide to every single dev that contacts them. They also charge a ridiculous amount for any promotion, and on top of that they don't even let the devs put their game on sale when and how they want to.

Wow what happened to the old sony. I hope such stories reach Shu ear. He seems to be that last hope to retain that old indie culture that started in the late ps3 years. 🤷‍♀️
 

EDMIX

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Says you. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Just chill man. I don't think you're this critical when it comes to your favorite box.

So even when I'm telling you this would be the case for any business, I must not be this "critical" when it comes to one box over the other?

Sooooo if I tell you someone who works for walmart, in front of a boss will likely not address and bring up certain issues, that must mean I'm a fanboy of Target? smh.

Nothing in my statement exclusively only includes Microsoft in this, like nothing, not a single comment is specific to only MS.

When you are getting funding, marketing, promoted etc, its unlikely you'd say negative things about that, that bias will exist with many partnerships in business regardless of MS, Sony, Nintendo, Walmart, Target etc. How the fuck any of you got that it MUST MEAN ONLY MS is beyond me, nothing in any of my statements argues that MS is the buggy man and evil and only folks have to lie to make em look good or anything weird like that, in fact my examples are literally of other business to show you this means very little considering the position they are in.

I will not expect employee during an interview in front of a Nintendo boss to say "man its shitty here sir"

I will not expect employee during an interview in front of a Sony boss to say "man its shitty here sir"

I will not expect employee during an interview in front of a MS boss to say "man its shitty here sir"

I will not expect employee during an interview in front of a Walmart boss to say "man its shitty here sir"

I will not expect employee during an interview in front of a Home Depot boss to say "man its shitty here sir"

Do I need to state EA and Ubisoft too or will you call me a fanboy if they are not listed as if I ONLY MEAN the ones fucking listed? This isn't about MS, this is about a business doing something for another business that would mean a bias would exist in which they are unlikely to fucking state negative things about openly at this time. We all know why someone might not stay such things given such a position, I don't know why many are making it seem as if this MUST mean its something against MS, when this can be applied to all business, or do you believe those Walmart, Target, Best Buy etc orientation videos about it being a great place? =) It doesn't mean its not, it means AT THAT TIME they would not fucking say it wasn't during such a interview, video etc.
 

Chronos24

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Game looks bad ass. I know people here are saying well duh they're praising them because of partnership but I think it's the fact that Microsoft is giving them that chance and exposure whereas other venues may not.
 
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KingT731

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Well, you have to admit this is a good thing that Microsoft treats them bad not like Sony where allegedly some indie devs claim otherwise.
Nothing to do with Sony. Marketing is marketing. Any sane person wouldn't expect a group under contract with another to badmouth them in any way. There are likely "marketing guidelines" in place as well.
 
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Derktron

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Nothing to do with Sony. Marketing is marketing. Any sane person wouldn't expect a group under contract with another to badmouth them in any way. There are likely "marketing guidelines" in place as well.
Seems like I found a defender. Way to go! Proud of you
 
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yurinka

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Which teams asked to put their games on game pass and were denied?
Many pitched their game and got rejected. Same for Gamepass than to Gold, PS+, PS Now, Prime and so on.

Or outside subscriptions, same goes with pitching a game to be 2nd party, or to get first party marketing support on their channels (events/streams/Youtube channel/blog/ads/store/etc). Not only with MS, but with everybody.

There's a curation, the cool kids on the block make the cut and lot other ones don't. The ones who made it with Sony are happy with Sony, the ones who made it with MS are happy with MS, the ones who made it with Nintendo are happy with Nintendo, and so on.

And what were the reasons given? Let's see the receipts. I mean not all indie games are good. I'm disappointed with them more than I'm entertained. If Microsoft were curating bad games you'd also be complaining
Sony, MS, Amazon and the owners of the other subscriptions can't include 1302984 new games each month on their services, so they have to curate them. This means most indies don't make the cut. I know it because I've been a gamedev for over 15 years so I have many friends in many big and small studios.

They may not have mentioned publicly because these negotiations must be covered by NDA (and even if wouldn't be the case, it's unpolite and dumb to close doors throwing platform holders under the bus).

When MS agrees to put a new game on Gamepass, in exchange they give its publisher a certain amount of money to compensate the sales they estimate will lose by doing so. So obviously they have to curate that, because with no curation we'd see thousands of new games on gamepass because MS would be throwing free money to everyone.
 
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