• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PS5: VRR Update Is Reportedly Coming In December

Status
Not open for further replies.

ethomaz

Banned
It's always been the case, remember Bayonetta on PS3? I'm sure the developers had VRR in mind when they shipped that. Try dealing in realities instead of a fantasy world where developers ship locked framerate games, they don't and never have done.
Bayonetta is good example of what should not happen in game development.
Little to no effort to ship a port to get gamer money.

It is like people trying to say Bayonetta PS3 was fine... it was shit and anybody that played the 360 version knows that.
 
Last edited:

GymWolf

Gold Member
It's amazing people are so desperate to downplay a useful feature that benefits gamers and has been promised.
You can count the number of locked 120hz games on one hand with fingers to spare, also saying developers "should" have locked frame rates, if that was the case then Digital Foundry wouldn't need to exist, the reality is locked framerates are a rarity above 30fps. What developers should do and what they do are two different things.
At this point i don't think he is downplaying the feature, he is just absurdly optimist about the future of rock solid framerates in gaming...
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
Bayonetta is good example of what should not happen in game development.
Little to no effort to ship a port to get gamer money.

It's always happened and always will so it's good to have an option to help mitigate those sort of problems. Anyone who doesn't like it can uncheck the box when the feature arrives.
 

ethomaz

Banned
He just has high expectations on a closed platform.
It is a closed platform after all.
Developers should have more work specifically for it.

What is happening is that accept anything "mind" is leading us to Cyberpunk, Battlefield, etc cases... it is a very sad truth.

I know a lot of people hates Destiny for several reasons but can anybody says the 30fps locked on PS4 (and probably others platforms) is not good? So a 3rd-party dev delivering locked framerate, is that really a fantasy? Or just a matter of the developer having focus and don't try to ship the game asap?

Edit - When I say developer is a combination of Publisher + Developer.
 
Last edited:

GymWolf

Gold Member
Bayonetta is good example of what should not happen in game development.
Little to no effort to ship a port to get gamer money.
I think i know what is your problem, you think that vrr is needed only for games with gigantic framedrops like 10-15 frames, but even close to rock solid framerate that lose 1-2-3 frames can benefit from vrr, so even if a game is almost perfect and the devs did their job almost perfectly, there is still room for vrr.

Not everyone has the same sensibility when it comes to frame dips, many people feels even the 1 frame dip, especially if it is all the time with the framerate going 60-59-60-58-57-59-60-58-59-60.

Returnal was like that (but with bigger frame dips) and for me was absolutely distracting, vrr would have solved the problem completely.
 

Leyasu

Member
No, not a ridiculous post but hey that is very much your opinion.

Beyond calling it nonsense and ridiculous (without saying why much if at all) and a Sony dig (as if I were arguing that VRR should be held back out of spite), you basically concluded the post with a “well of course we need to lower the standards we expect from devs because… well… it is what it is, keep calm and carry on”.
lol gtfo.

Nobody talking about vrr is clamouring for lower standards or accepting them, (although the reality is and always has been fluctuating frame rates) that why I said your post was nonsense. And it was nonsense. Your whole post was thinly veiled console warring. Get over it.

You really should be asking why people are defending it's continued omission. If it's there or not, devs will still launch games with fluctuating frame rates. Fuck even 343 just released a game with it not present in one of it's presets. A 1st party dev for a platform that has had vrr for years.
 
Last edited:

GymWolf

Gold Member
We know this, he is just saying we should demand better rather than concede to IQ reducing tech. His words.

This is just going to keep going in circles.
That's exactly what i said, his optimism against my realism.

But i was not expecting this from him since he usually knows his techy stuff so why denying the current reality of things?!
 

ethomaz

Banned
That's exactly what i said, his optimism against my realism.

But i was not expecting this from him since he usually knows his techy stuff so why denying the current reality of things?!
That is probably because I work with software development.
I do hate to see these minor issue without research and fix before ship to end user.
Even when I receive a ticked to fix a issue in another software and I find others issues I end to fixing and telling the consumers the things that were not right.
I make errors too but not so exposed that affect consumer experience.

I don't like to threat consumers like game developers threat us.
And it is not something new from my part... I'm posting these same points since before VRR even existed.
The ideia to fixed hardware units to move to a more "friendly" PC development always was a bad ideia in my mind... so do PC graphics settings options.

There is a reason why PC is PC and have all these features... and it is why you don't have or need a RiveTunner in you fixed hardware.
 
Last edited:

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
lol gtfo.
Again no need to be aggressive…

Nobody talking about vrr is clamouring for lower standards or accepting them, (although the reality is and always has been fluctuating frame rates) that why I said your post was nonsense. And it was nonsense. Your whole post was thinly veiled console warring. Get over it.

You really should be asking why people are defending it's continued omission. If it's there or not, devs will still launch games with fluctuating frame rates. Fuck even 343 just released a game with it not present in one of it's presets. A 1st party dev for a platform that has had vrr for years.

I think we are going in circles here, I do not get why people are defending the omission as if it were a good thing. If a feature is used it should be used properly, so a game of what about helps neither here.

VRR is not a bad feature in and of itself (although given the current implementation on TV’s it has flaws), I think ethomaz ethomaz spelled it out better though (I am from a software development background too, so I fully get his point), we should be demanding more out of developers on fixed hardware like consoles. With a business bean counter hat on I can see the publisher “make it all like a PC” perspective, but as a console gamer and a PC/macOS user (well I work more than I game on that), no I want the two platforms to stay different and play to their own strengths.

PC for HW customisation and variety of user replaceable setups, console trading that for a fixed specs platform developers optimise for (VRR as a crutch for lack of framerate optimisation 60 Hz targets [better if it came alongside a locked 40 FPS mode for those same TV’s likely to have a 120 Hz setting], multiple deep graphics sliders/configs, etc… instead of deep per platform optimisations). They sell it as player choice (it is always the freedom angle) even if it is business costs driven and as a customer it pisses me off, as a software dev it pisses me off.
 
We had milions of games without stable framerate well before vrr was a thing, lazy devs always existed so not sure what your fear is...it's not like before we had 95% of games with locked framerate, quite the opposite really...
But a lot of that was down to hardware limitations, which we don’t really have anymore to that extent. Now devs have manpower and effort limitations more so than hardware.

I mean I certainly wouldn’t call rare lazy because their very ambitious n64 games had fps drops. But now, I certainly expect solid locked fps on everything but the Nintendo switch, sometimes.
 
Last edited:

GymWolf

Gold Member
But a lot of that was down to hardware limitations, which we don’t really have anymore to that extent. Now devs have manpower and effort limitations more so than hardware.

I mean I certainly wouldn’t call rare lazy because their very ambitious n64 games had fps drops. But now, I certainly expect solid locked fps on everything but the Nintendo switch, sometimes.
Like i said before, its my pessimistic view against your optimistic view, only the future will tell who is right.
 
I normally buy a TV that matches the console price, I did it for PS3 & 4.

Where I'm from electronic device retails very expensive.
This is the prices of consoles alone and this is without scalping.

$1usd = $2 where I'm from, so that's $1200 USD for the PS5. You can only imagine the prices of our TVs.

For a minute there I thought it was an ad for a scalper.
 

ParaSeoul

Member
I normally buy a TV that matches the console price, I did it for PS3 & 4.

Where I'm from electronic device retails very expensive.
This is the prices of consoles alone and this is without scalping.

$1usd = $2 where I'm from, so that's $1200 USD for the PS5. You can only imagine the prices of our TVs.
Ouch dude,price where I'm from is around 710 us dollars so I can relate a bit
 

rofif

Gold Member
Like i said before, its my pessimistic view against your optimistic view, only the future will tell who is right.
I’ve just needs to look at PS4. Compared to ps3, most games had locked and stable fps. This time around also it seems that way. So vrr is almost useless unless Sony unlocks the global fps cap with vrr
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
I’ve just needs to look at PS4. Compared to ps3, most games had locked and stable fps. This time around also it seems that way. So vrr is almost useless unless Sony unlocks the global fps cap with vrr
Locked is a big word but sure, we are in a better place compared to ps3 era.

Some of you seems to not understand that even a frame drop of a single frame or 2 can be annoying for people who has a different sensibility to these things.

You are not gonna have a sony game going from 30 to 20 frames (although returnal already has some nasty slowdowns), sure, but you are still gonna have the framerate flactuating like 30-29-30-29-28-30 when there is hell on screen and this is extremely annoying for some people.

Maybe you don't remember the hilariously bad performance modes in stuff like monster hunter world or gow because in the last year of ps5, performance modes where kinda stable, but this is gonna disappear soon when nextgen only games that really use all the power of the console are gonna come out in a year or 2, and this is when vrr is gonna shine.
 
Last edited:

asustitan

Banned
Man...

Games should not need VRR... games should be locked to target framerate.
Sony is really way late with VRR feature... they promised and needs to delivery it... there is no excuse for that.
There are several games (1st and 3rd parties) that are locked so it is not something mythical or fantasy.
This generation is become worse on game development side compared to previous generations and that is unacceptable but you know people like you will probably accept anything they delivery lol

The discussion moved from another level and you still sticks to whatever you thought on your mind and so your posts makes no sense to what is even being talked.
I mean what Sony games have to do with what is being discussed at all?

Just wrong,

This generation would struggle to hold 120fps stable.

Varying framerates between 100 and 120, is absolutely fine with VRR, looks smooth as butter, can't tell the frame drops.

Give me that over sitting at a stable 60fps any day.
 
Last edited:

elliot5

Member
I guess that the next big firmware update is scheduled before Horizon is released and will introduce support for VRR.
If their "perfect for PS5" TVs now have VRR sorted out it won't be long.
They don’t. Might be wrong but I only recall the x900h getting vrr and it’s…. Not good.
 

Elios83

Member
They don’t. Might be wrong but I only recall the x900h getting vrr and it’s…. Not good.

I don't have a Sony TV so I'm not super informed as well but the quoted video states otherwise.
They say Sony has recently released a software update for their "perfect for PS5" lineup of gaming TVs with VRR support.

I was also aware of the beta release for the x900h a few months ago but the fact the vrr is not good on that model is because the hardware just isn't fully there in that TV to support vrr without compromises. But this has nothing to do with VRR support in general.

So there is to clarify if what has been stated in that video is accurate or not.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
They say Sony has recently released a software update for their "perfect for PS5" lineup of gaming TVs with VRR support.
They only released it for some.

The ones that didn’t get VRR did get the auto settings for PS5 but no VRR support, such as the X90J which I have.
 

Elios83

Member
They only released it for some.

The ones that didn’t get VRR did get the auto settings for PS5 but no VRR support, such as the X90J which I have.
Are we talking about a recent firmware or the beta of a few months ago?
Do all the supported TVs have the same limitations found on the X900H?
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Are we talking about a recent firmware or the beta of a few months ago?
Do all the supported TVs have the same limitations found on the X900H?
I‘m talking about the latest update my TV, the X90J, got. It added the auto settings for the PS5, but no VRR.
 

Elios83

Member
I‘m talking about the latest update my TV, the X90J, got. It added the auto settings for the PS5, but no VRR.

Ok so atm which models got the VRR update?
Just the x900h?
And the limitations found in the x900h are present in all their current lineup of TVs?
Is VRR still a "beta" feature in the firmware notes?
It's interesting to know these details clearly to get an idea about what's coming. As I said I've not really informed myself since I have a Samsung TV.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Ok so atm which models got the VRR update?
Just the x900h?
And the limitations found in the x900h are present in all their current lineup of TVs?
Is VRR still a "beta" feature in the firmware notes?
It's interesting to know these details clearly to get an idea about what's coming. As I said I've not really informed myself since I have a Samsung TV.
I think all of the 2021 models got VRR except the X85J and X90J for some reason and no the firmware was not listed as a beta.
 

dotnotbot

Member
Are we talking about a recent firmware or the beta of a few months ago?
Do all the supported TVs have the same limitations found on the X900H?
I think all of the 2021 models got VRR except the X85J and X90J for some reason and no the firmware was not listed as a beta.
The only Sony TVs that support VRR right now are X90H and X85J because these are the only Sony TVs with newest Mediatek but no additional co-processor so they're both 1:1 in terms of processing capabilities.

All XR TVs are still awaiting the update (X9xJ, X95J, A8xJ, A90J, Z9J). Those TVs have more processing power thanks to added co-processor but double-processor design probaby makes the implementation of some features like VRR a bit more tricky.
 
Last edited:

Elios83

Member
I think all of the 2021 models got VRR except the X85J and X90J for some reason and no the firmware was not listed as a beta.

Ok thanks (y) so the claim that only x900h got vrr is wrong:

They don’t. Might be wrong but I only recall the x900h getting vrr and it’s…. Not good.

Now the next big point is understanding if all the TVs that got the VRR update all share the compromised implementation of the x900h model or not.
 

dotnotbot

Member
Ok thanks (y) so the claim that only x900h got vrr is wrong:



Now the next big point is understanding if all the TVs that got the VRR update all share the compromised implementation of the x900h model or not.
See my post above. X85J has no local dimming so that's one issue written off. Also, rtings says that 120Hz VRR works as it should on X90H (but it's buggy and sometimes won't work at all) contradicting HDVTest findings (by "as it should" I mean that it's not capped to 60 Hz like HDTVTest claims)
Besides X85J and X90H no other Sony TV got VRR update yet.
 
Last edited:

Elios83

Member
See my post above. X85J has no local dimming so that's one issue written off. Also, rtings says that 120Hz VRR works as it should on X90H (but it's buggy and sometimes won't work at all) contradicting HDVTest findings.
Besides X85J and X90H no other TV got VRR update yet.
Ok so there's a bit of confusion on the results and support is limited to just two models atm.
I guess we'll have updates in early January when they unveil their 2022 lineup on January 4th.
I hope journalists actually make questions instead of just repeating PR.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom