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[Audioboxer]

This is rather damaging for the community. Fixing relationships is always better if some reaching out can occur

Also, good read

It was a day of extreme emotions for Const. Chuck Krangle, a Toronto police officer and a former member of the Canadian Armed Forces.

Despite working in the city for eight years, Krangle, who is openly gay, had never been to Toronto’s Pride parade. But this year brought his chance to attend when he was assigned to work Sunday’s parade.

Krangle was blown away — by the spectacle, by the fun, and by the number of fellow officers taking part.

“I was like ‘woah, what a coming together,’ ” Krangle, 30, said in an interview. “I had no idea that there were that many cops that march in this, from all different agencies,” he said, adding that one of the highlights was speaking with Toronto police chief and parade-goer Mark Saunders.

But by the time Krangle, who is a community response officer, finished his shift, there had been a change in tone: following a mid-parade protest by members of Black Lives Matter Toronto, Pride organizers seemed to agree to make a number of changes to improve the event — including banning police floats and booths. (Pride executive director Mathieu Chantelois said Monday that his signing of the demands was not binding on Pride.)

This year, 2016, marked a first for me. My first PRIDE parade. I would be working, nonetheless it would be my first one in any capacity. WOW what an event. What a spectacle, a joining of everyone.

The 2016 pride events really opened my eyes to something. The support that I have from my peers and supervisors has been unwavering. When I saw all those floats and officers marching (100's), I realized that my employer fully supports this part of me, and so many others like me. As I stood post at Yonge and College, ensuring a safe atmosphere, Chief Mark Saunders came up to me. I had the opportunity to salute him, and I knew that I had a leader who was invested in this celebration of PRIDE.

“I do not speak for the police, and I do not speak for the LGBTQ community. I speak as an individual, one who saw his first PRIDE, only to be excluded from the next,” Krangle wrote in his letter. “Exclusion does not promote inclusion.”

More @ https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ects-to-black-lives-matters-call-for-ban.html

 

[Poor GRIMES]

Yeah Pride parades! Fight oppression!

....but not that oppression. That makes me uncomfortable. Stay in your lane.


Huh? Police (even Canadian police) routinely target folks in your lane?

 

[T.O.P]

This is rather damaging for the community. Fixing relationships is always better if some reaching out can occur

Also, good read

More @ https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ects-to-black-lives-matters-call-for-ban.html

Great read

Hell i wish the lgbt policemen/women in Italy would join the Rome pride at some point, hell at least aknowledge the presence of gay people in the force would be amazing

Having two gay friends who are in the police i hear from them all the time how shitty of an ambient it can be

 

[Dead Man]

This is rather damaging for the community. Fixing relationships is always better if some reaching out can occur

Also, good read







More @ https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ects-to-black-lives-matters-call-for-ban.html

This year, 2016, marked a first for me. My first PRIDE parade. I would be working, nonetheless it would be my first one in any capacity. WOW what an event. What a spectacle, a joining of everyone.

The 2016 pride events really opened my eyes to something. The support that I have from my peers and supervisors has been unwavering. When I saw all those floats and officers marching (100's), I realized that my employer fully supports this part of me, and so many others like me. As I stood post at Yonge and College, ensuring a safe atmosphere, Chief Mark Saunders came up to me. I had the opportunity to salute him, and I knew that I had a leader who was invested in this celebration of PRIDE.

But nah, fuck that guy. Fuck helping bridge gaps between groups that historically have been abysmal. I don't know about the queer history of Toronto, but if it's anywhere like most places it involves plenty of police turning a blind eye to faggot bashing and worse.

Seeing firsthand that at least a large segment of not only the police but by extension the government have a concern for queer people is not something that should be underestimated. I have friends that are afraid to go to the police if they get abused in their relationship. Others have been afraid to report harassment and attacks to the police. Seeing police acceptance can make a huge difference to these people and people in similar situations. But fuck all them.

Apologies for the rant and the run on sentence, it's mid morning here and I got no sleep last night.

 

[Audioboxer]

But nah, fuck that guy. Fuck helping bridge gaps between groups that historically have been abysmal. I don't know about the queer history of Toronto, but if it's anywhere like most places it involves plenty of police turning a blind eye to faggot bashing and worse.

Seeing firsthand that at least a large segment of not only the police but by extension the government have a concern for queer people is not something that should be underestimated. I have friends that are afraid to go to the police if they get abused in their relationship. Others have been afraid to report harassment and attacks to the police. Seeing police acceptance can make a huge difference to these people and people in similar situations. But fuck all them.

Apologies for the rant and the run on sentence, it's mid morning here and I got no sleep last night.

It's cool, passionately said. Unfortunately police forces aren't going anywhere, they're a necessary part of society. What has to happen is constant reform and keeping on our toes to try and keep them working for the people, not against the people. Unless you are someone in a society who behaves in a way which surrenders your immediate freedoms. Anyway, yeah, the forces, let alone the whole world, hasn't been kind to homosexuals in history. This is but one small slice of everyone's time to try and promote inclusion in the gay community with the forces who have no doubt wronged them in history. It shouldn't be pissed away if as the cop above has said things have gone well in the parades.

You don't go attacking an event like this unless the actual event itself has caused problems. It doesn't sound like it did in 2016, so let it grow. Not to mention bigotry and abuse to gay employees in a whole host of roles has been terrible, let alone a historically masculine one like the police. There's a reason in on itself for the police to be involved in this parade to show all employees what the forces think of homosexuality. The cop above said that's how he felt when he seen his superior at it.

 

[Abelard]

Terrible move. Not that Canadian police are perfect by any means, but they are legitimately a force of good overall and even if you disagree, this does nothing to help with relations.

 

[Azuran]

Absolutely ridiculous. No one should be excluded from the pride parade if they want to show support to the LGBT community here. Hopefully they overturn this stupid ass decision.

Excluding people from events like this does nothing but create unnecessary division. That protest last year did nothing but hurt the image of the BLM movement here. The last thing you should do is try to screw up the celebrations of another group that has also been marginalized throughout history. There's a time and place for everything, and that certainly wasn't one of them.

 

[Koodo]

Also, good read

More @ https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ects-to-black-lives-matters-call-for-ban.html

Good is not a descriptor for this article.

"I do not speak for the police, and I do not speak for the LGBTQ community. I speak as an individual, one who saw his first PRIDE, only to be excluded from the next,” Krangle wrote in his letter. “Exclusion does not promote inclusion.”

This individual, as he specified, can still attend pride next year. The quite is obscene sensationalism.

Crocodile tears for the sake of propaganda aside, if we're going to consider the feelings of pride attendees, we have to consider the very real (and sometimes literally triggering) feelings of minorities in the presence of police uniforms. I'm afraid the police cop won't be experiencing feelings quite like those when he attends pride next year as an individual.

To add further fire to trash like that article and arguments of "disruption" to the debauchery of Gay Pride is how pretending these events are merely a party is ENTIRELY missing the point. Pride started as a protest, and prostesting will always have a place in pride. Food for thought for certain members of the LGBT who which to exclude the intersectional narrative of minorities – you know, the same minorities who were the ones to throw the first bricks at Stonewall and herald in the era that allows the problematically privileged members of our community to parade down a street openly.

 

[Audioboxer]

Good is not a descriptor for this article.

"I do not speak for the police, and I do not speak for the LGBTQ community. I speak as an individual, one who saw his first PRIDE, only to be excluded from the next,” Krangle wrote in his letter. “Exclusion does not promote inclusion.”

This individual, as he specified, can still attend pride next year. The quite is obscene sensationalism.

Crocodile tears for the sake of propaganda aside, if we're going to consider the feelings of pride attendees, we have to consider the very real (and sometimes literally triggering) feelings of minorities in the presence of police uniforms. I'm afraid the police cop won't be experiencing feelings quite like those when he attends pride next year as an individual.

To add further fire to trash like that article and arguments of "disruption" to the debauchery of Gay Pride is how pretending these events are merely a party is ENTIRELY missing the point. Pride started as a protest, and prostesting will always have a place in pride. Food for thought for certain members of the LGBT who which to exclude the intersectional narrative of minorities – you know, the same minorities who were the ones to throw the first bricks at Stonewall and herald in the era that allows the problematically privileged members of our community to parade down a street openly.

If reading that article doesn't put a smile on your face and inspire a little hope I don't know what to say. The guy made it quite clear from a historical point of view it's also progressive for the police to join in considering the damage the institution has done. How can you expect a better future if you're only ever asking for destruction?

And sure, many gay pride events may have started as protests, but the aim is to try and turn them into inclusive, loving and caring community events. Not stay as rigid protesting till the end of time if progress can be nudged forward to love and care.

 

[trixx]

Huh. How are police relations over there? Someone from Toronto around?

Hmm depends. It's really not that bad, at least from my perspective but I know some people that have had issues. Still seems like weird decision imo.

I know some folks that were pushing for it. I'm not entirely sure why, but there's been drama that's for sure.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

If reading that article doesn't put a smile on your face and inspire a little hope I don't know what to say. The guy made it quite clear from a historical point of view it's also progressive for the police to join in considering the damage the institution has done. How can you expect a better future if you're only ever asking for destruction?

Some of us are after a bit more substance than happy feelings. Y'all are lost in the sauce if you think this form of nonviolent protest is in any way hurting the anti-brutality movement.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I'll never understand how people can state "this will just divide and strain the relations between LGBT and the police". I dunno about yall but my standard for the police is above bitching and delivering inferior service to minorities (sexual and otherwise) because you didn't get in a parade. If the state is going to punish citizens because their feelings were hurt, all I can say is yalls faith in the police is low. Now, my faith actually is low but I'm not hiding that. But I don't see how it's acceptable to anyone here that it even crosses their mind that the police may retaliate in any way over this.

Since when was it okay for the police to retaliate due to the outcome of a private event? I don't see why citizens should even have to foster relationships with the police if they functioned properly. Which is fair treatment and care no matter what. So what are we actually worried about? (and this is rhetorical, I know what we're worried about but aim the hate at the right person then)

 

[Audioboxer]

Some of us are after a bit more substance than happy feelings. Y'all are lost in the sauce if you think this form of nonviolent protest is in any way hurting the anti-brutality movement.

I think a lot of you, myself included, are not part of Canada. Better to look at it objectively rather than project your own countries issues on them. As in how did the event go last year? Seems to have gone really well, and the police forces seem to have taken part in unity. So objectively, what was bad about that? It was progress forward to building bonds and raising awareness, especially for gay cops within the forces.

Love and happiness are core parts of life as well by the way... As I said above it is one event in the year. One event.

I'm pretty shocked that for such a progressive board this is getting such a hammering. It seems to be the epitome of what most of society wants, building bridges and trying to right wrongs, and it's getting scoffed at by some.

If anyone can read this letter and think badly or poorly of him and what this means I'm a bit lost for words

Dear Pride Toronto,

I am writing today to address concerns I have with your recent agreement with Black Lives Matter TO. I am particularly concerned with your willingness to remove all police floats and booths in future parades and community spaces. I should give you my background first.

I am a Toronto Police Service Constable, and a homosexual. I have been on the job 8yrs. Prior to becoming a Police Officer, I served in the Canadian Armed Forces and completed a tour in Kandahar Afghanistan in 2006-2007.

I never "came out" while serving in the military. Though not for fear of persecution, I only told a select few about my orientation. I was still quite young and was simply not ready.

It wasn't until 2012 that I decided to come out. I began to tell a few peers at work, and soon word spread. I can say with absolute pride, that my peers, and my employers/senior management have never made an inappropriate comment to me. I have never been made to feel discriminated against.

This year, 2016, marked a first for me. My first PRIDE parade. I would be working, nonetheless it would be my first one in any capacity. WOW what an event. What a spectacle, a joining of everyone.

The 2016 pride events really opened my eyes to something. The support that I have from my peers and supervisors has been unwavering. When I saw all those floats and officers marching (100's), I realized that my employer fully supports this part of me, and so many others like me. As I stood post at Yonge and College, ensuring a safe atmosphere, Chief Mark Saunders came up to me. I had the opportunity to salute him, and I knew that I had a leader who was invested in this celebration of PRIDE.

LGBTQ cops have struggled for decades. I am fortunate, because it is their struggles in the past, that have made my orientation an irrelevant factor in my workplace interactions. Members of police services, and their employers (like RBC, Telus, Porter, etc) have just as much right to participate as any other group. Police Officers are significantly represented in the LGBTQ community and it would be unacceptable to alienate and discriminate against them and those who support them. They to struggled to gain a place and workplace free from discrimination and bias.

I do not speak for the Police, and I do not speak for the LGBTQ community. I speak as an individual, one who saw his first PRIDE, only to be excluded from the next.

Exclusion does not promote inclusion.

Chuck Krangle

 

[knkng]

That doesn't really matter. As long as you are an agent of the state the way you are viewed and your ability above the average citizen are just on drastically different level. I would love to make the argument that police officers are just regulars citizens while they are beating the shit out of me but it doesn't work like that. I dunno what to tell you man.


It doesn't really matter, you punish the police as an organization, who do you think that punishment ends up affecting? The squirrels and raccoons? No, the people in the organization.


Shrug, you are a member of the state, if the state says no, you couldn't do it anyway. It's not a right to wear a symbol of authority at a parade. I dunno why people want to pretend it is. There are laws and regulations about where you can wear these uniforms entirely because of what they represent.


Who said that was the goal here?


Shrug, we'll see, I don't know how it's gonna shake out frankly, not gonna pretend I do.


I'm not really interested in your views of religion honestly.


It's cool you feel this way but I don't particularly think it matters in what pride is about (protest) or what a section of the LGBT community wants. They obviously had one hell of a debate about this before it was decided so I'll just have to wait and see how it unfolds.


You can participate, you just can't wear your state issued uniform. I mean I really don't see why people are saying people are left out. To put it bluntly, the police are a fucking state body that basically has the ability to do w/e the hell they want, how are we seriously gonna put that power above the citizens they govern?


No offense but you can't seriously think that someone who just had their shit kicked in by the police today just wants to dance and clown around with them tomorrow. This isn't wile e. coyote and sam the sheepdog.

Man, I don't even.

You say that restricting police is fine because they represent the state, but you predicate your argument on abuse, and not wanting to be around those abusive individuals. If that is the case then why does being a state employee differ from being a member of any other organization? Why would this not be a restriction based upon historical treatment alone?

Punishing an organization should not effect the personal lives of those within it, especially when that punishment revolves around their sexual orientation (not to mention it resolves nothing). It's like trying to reform the school system by banning LGBT teachers from attending Pride (even though they are government employees!) Besides, the state has no right to interfere with matters such as sexual orientation and how you choose to represent yourself as such, even if you are under their employ.

You seem to be viewing the issue through some sort of militaristic viewpoint. Like once you become a police officer you are then an object of the government with no freedoms afforded to other citizens.

It's shocking how quickly people are willing to roll back on LGBT rights and acceptance. Telling a person that they can't represent themselves as an LGBT member of the police is so fucked up I can't even comprehend it. The worst part is, this brings no resolution to the issue facing PoC with the police. It's not even a trade off, I don't know what this is.

Whatever, I don't understand it, and I'll leave it at that.

 

[Koodo]

If reading that article doesn't put a smile on your face and inspire a little hope I don't know what to say. The guy made it quite clear from a historical point of view it's also progressive for the police to join in considering the damage the institution has done. How can you expect a better future if you're only ever asking for destruction?

And sure, many gay pride events may have started as protests, but the aim is to try and turn them into inclusive, loving and caring community events. Not stay as rigid protesting till the end of time if progress can be nudged forward to love and care.

I'm the one advocating for the mental wellbeing of vulnerable members of our community, so I'm not sure where destruction factors into this. What are you advocating for by linking to a grossly sensationalizing article?

The principal aim of pride, like any other civil rights movement, is to progress the rights of LGBT. Progress is pushed primarily by protesting – this does not exclude any notion of inclusivity, so this resistance towards the concept of protesting puzzles me as well.

 

[Audioboxer]

I'm the one advocating for the mental wellbeing of vulnerable members of our community, so I'm not sure where destruction factors into this. What are you advocating for by linking to a grossly sensationalizing article?

The principal aim of pride, like any other civil rights movement, is to progress the rights of LGBT. Progress is pushed primarily by protesting – this does not exclude any notion of inclusivity, so this resistance towards the concept of protesting puzzles me as well.

Forced or unnecessary exclusion is destructive. Look at the objective evidence from last year's event. Police enjoyed it and the event seemed to go well. So why would a step forward in 2017 be taking exclusionary measures? That's a disciplinary measure that should be used if things didn't go well.

Also to let me get that last sentence right, are you saying inclusively is not progress?

 

[Poor GRIMES]

I think a lot of you, myself included, are not part of Canada. Better to look at it objectively rather than project your own countries issues on them. As in how did the event go last year? Seems to have gone really well, and the police forces seem to have taken part in unity. So objectively, what was bad about that? It was progress forward to building bonds and raising awareness, especially for gay cops within the forces.

Love and happiness are core parts of life as well by the way... As I said above it is one event in the year. One event.

I'm pretty shocked that for such a progressive board this is getting such a hammering. It seems to be the epitome of what most of society wants, building bridges and trying to right wrongs, and it's getting scoffed at by some.

If anyone can read this letter and think badly or poorly of him and what this means I'm a bit lost for words

What does one event last year have to do with police brutality over the course of that year, or years gone by?

Who said Pride was about inclusion?

I like happiness and love and all that white bullshit... but I also like holding people and institutions accountable for their actions. Poor THEM if that doesn't perfectly fit into their PR goals for FY 2017.

 

[Audioboxer]

What does one event last year have to do with police brutality over the course of that year, or years gone by?

Who said Pride was about inclusion?

I like happiness and love and all that white bullshit... but I also like holding people and institutions accountable for their actions. Poor THEM if that doesn't perfectly fit into their PR goals for FY 2017.

What exactly is white bullshit?

Anyway, if you want LGBT progress you fight for inclusion. Exclusion is not progress. It's quite simple really. The police have been a historically exclusion based structure for homosexuality, like many places in life. You need to get inclusion to then improve the quality of life for homosexuals who have a career in the forces. Like the cop above, because this might be a shock, but gay people want to go into careers in the police!

 

[Professor Renegade]

They could have gone about this in a much better way.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

What exactly is white bullshit?

Anyway, if you want LGBT progress you fight for inclusion. Exclusion is not progress. It's quite simple really.

Oh you know, superficial fluff that makes those in the majority feel like they are on the progressive side without taking into account the reasons why marginalized people may take high-profile opportunities to nonviolently protest. Happy feelings! Inclusion for all, including those oppressing!

 

[Audioboxer]

Oh you know, superficial fluff that makes those in the majority feel like they are on the progressive side without taking into account the reasons why marginalized people may take high-profile opportunities to nonviolently protest. Happy feelings! Inclusion for all, including those oppressing!

Dude, can there not be one event in the year where everyone who wants to attend it can celebrate the LGBT community and try and create bridges and progress? It's like you actively want to stiffle a small chance at a better future...

I honestly don't get this logic of wanting the police to get better, and then when an attempt is made trying to stop it from going ahead so you can then say things aren't getting better?

 

[Poor GRIMES]

Dude, can there not be one event in the year where everyone who wants to attend it can celebrate the LGBT community and try and create bridges and progress? It's like you actively want to stiffle a small chance at a better future...

I honestly don't get this logic of wanting the police to get better, and then when an attempt is made trying to stop it from going ahead so you can then say things aren't getting better?

What attempt is being made, pray tell?

 

[the1npc]

What attempt is being made, pray tell?

Inclusion is a way to normalise lqbt

 

[Audioboxer]

What attempt is being made, pray tell?

The 2016 pride events really opened my eyes to something. The support that I have from my peers and supervisors has been unwavering. When I saw all those floats and officers marching (100's), I realized that my employer fully supports this part of me, and so many others like me. As I stood post at Yonge and College, ensuring a safe atmosphere, Chief Mark Saunders came up to me. I had the opportunity to salute him, and I knew that I had a leader who was invested in this celebration of PRIDE.

At the very least internally the forces in that area proudly showing they welcome LGBT cops.

 

[Koodo]

Forced or unnecessary exclusion is destructive. Look at the objective evidence from last year's event. Police enjoyed it and the event seemed to go well. So why would a step forward in 2017 be taking exclusionary measures?

Also to let me get that last sentence right, are you saying inclusively is not progress?

Who is being excluded?

Specificy which member of the LGBT community is being excluded. The police institution is not a member of the LGBT community. That white gay male who happens to be a cop in his day job can still attend pride as a white gay male.

I care little about police on duty enjoying themselves at Pride – that's fine if they do, but NOT at the expense of actual groups and individuals of the LGBT community who are triggered by their presence. The feelings of an institution external to the LGBT do NOT take precedence over their own members – the notion of inclusivity is laughable under this pretense.

 

[Apathy]

What does one event last year have to do with police brutality over the course of that year, or years gone by?

Who said Pride was about inclusion?

I like happiness and love and all that white bullshit... but I also like holding people and institutions accountable for their actions. Poor THEM if that doesn't perfectly fit into their PR goals for FY 2017.

http://www.pridetoronto.com/about-us/

Inclusivity
We welcome everyone and want everyone to be welcomed. We are accessible to everyone as we create a sense of belonging and shared purpose.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

Inclusion is a way to normalise lqbt

Inclusion at a LGBT event? Okay sis, the girls are in uproar here because the LGBT sisters are not in accordance with police occupation in this parade but whatever reality you choose to believe in....

At the very least internally the forces in that area proudly showing they welcome LGBT cops.

LGBT cops. Cute. @me when BLM/LGBTQ rights movements don't have a reason to be distrustful of cops-- unless you think they are just making up these threats at the present moment.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

You seem to be viewing the issue through some sort of militaristic viewpoint.

Like once you become a police officer you are then an object of the government with no freedoms afforded to other citizens.

I don't see what wearing your police uniform has to do with freedoms afforded to all citizens. You and me csnt wear police ubiforms and claim go be cops. That is the fundamental difference but like, I dont think you really are going to get that so this is pointless.

It's shocking how quickly people are willing to roll back on LGBT rights and acceptance.

It's not me who wanted this. It's other members of the LGBT community. That is where I dont get yall. It's like, because they are also BLM they dont matter or?

Telling a person that they can't represent themselves as an LGBT member of the police is so fucked up I can't even comprehend it.

Yell at the LGBT POC then. Though I dont really think you are gonna go do that. Direct your anger towards me if you want but I was gonna be down with whatever the community decided. I'm not throwing up a facade like I dont think this could backfire. I am saying I see validity in the point they made.

The worst part is, this brings no resolution to the issue facing PoC with the police. It's not even a trade off, I don't know what this is.

Whatever, I don't understand it, and I'll leave it at that.

Probably for the best.

 

[excelsiorlef]

LGBT rights are black rights and black rights are LGBT rights.

If the LGBT community doesn't stand with their most oppressed members we aren't a community.

End of story

 

[Audioboxer]

Who is being excluded?

Specificy which member of the LGBT community is being excluded. The police institution is not a member of the LGBT community. That white gay male who happens to be a cop in his day job can still attend pride as a white gay male.

I care little about police on duty enjoying themselves at Pride – that's fine if they do, but NOT at the expense of actual groups and individuals of the LGBT community who are triggered by their presence. The feelings of an institution external to the LGBT do NOT take precedence over their own members – the notion of inclusivity is laughable under this pretense.

Even if it is true, and you're not just mass projecting, what do you think is a good way to try and build a bridge there? Exposure to the forces in the area via a successful parade where the cops show that they support you? I think so!

Again, do you want progress, or do you want things to stay as they are?

Inclusion at a LGBT event? Okay sis, the girls are in uproar here because the LGBT sisters are not in accordance with police occupation in this parade but whatever reality you choose to believe in....



LGBT cops. Cute. @me when BLM/LGBTQ rights movements don't have a reason to be distrustful of cops-- unless you think they are just making up these threats at the present moment.

You're now mocking the notion that there are homosexual police officers? I dunno what to say.

 

[NimbusD]

This is some stupid bullshit. It's burning bridges and fucks with LGBT officers.

Edit: damn this thread is a minefield.

 

[SamuelSupreme]

Jermaine Carby was not an innocent man.

(It also wasn't Toronto Police that shot him)

He was suffering from a mental illness and Police gunned him down. (Peel Police I know but it's close enough to Toronto as is.)

 

[Poor GRIMES]

You're now mocking the notion that there are homosexual police officers? I dunno what to say.

I'm mocking the fact that that's the only segment of the LGBTQ population folks with your mindset seem to care about.

 

[Jebusman]

Inclusion at a LGBT event? Okay sis, the girls are in uproar here because the LGBT sisters are not in accordance with police occupation in this parade but whatever reality you choose to believe in....



LGBT cops. Cute. @me when BLM/LGBTQ rights movements don't have a reason to be distrustful of cops-- unless you think they are just making up these threats at the present moment.

You're off the fucking rails bud.

 

[the1npc]

I'm mocking the fact that that's the only segment of the LGBTQ population folks with your mindset seem to care about.

Why is burning bridges a good thing?

 

[Audioboxer]

I'm mocking the fact that that's the only segment of the LGBTQ population folks with your mindset seem to care about.

Nope. This move affects all segments. Those uneasy at the police and wanting a better relationship, those in the police and those just wanting everyone who is LGBT to be there (in every and any capacity).

 

[CazTGG]

Yeah Pride parades! Fight oppression!

....but not that oppression. That makes me uncomfortable. Stay in your lane.


Huh? Police (even Canadian police) routinely target folks in your lane?

Mike Earl, one of Toronto's higher ranking officers, referred to black people as "parasites" and "thugs", among other remarks. It's not just "a few bad apples", police culture's got a lot to work out here in Canada, hence why i'm in favor of this move. The police of Toronto, as a collective force, are neither promoting nor protecting the rights of the LGBTQ+ community or black/African Canadians.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Casual reminder BLM Toronto is made up of a lot of black LGBT folk.

This is their pride parade as much as yours. So stop acting like they are outsiders eh...

Black queer folk are some of the least protected in society and this thread is a perfect example why.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

Nope. This move affects all segments. Those uneasy at the police and wanting a better relationship, those in the police and those just wanting everyone who is LGBT to be there (in every and any capacity).

I'm not a spokesman for BLM Toronto, but if it were me, I'd look into substantive improvements in the policing of marginalized communities before I'd invite the policing representatives back into a Pride parade.

Anyone can act nice when the spotlight is on them for a day.

 

[Audioboxer]

I'm not a spokesman for BLM Toronto, but if it were me, I'd look into substantive improvements into the policing of marginalized communities before I'd invite the policing representatives back into a Pride parade.

Anyone can act nice when the spotlight is on them for a day.

Because you can't do both? I don't know how the concept of social interaction and bonding as seen through a parade is escaping a few of you. It fosters seeds, seeds which can over time result in inclusive thinking and tear down some of the walls of bigotry, ignorance and abuses.

Heck, it's positive the police forces even want to be there and take part, and are actually disappointed they now can't. You could have forces that wouldn't even want to be there other than as "bodyguards". Think about that when you're acting like someone forced them to be there and to smile in some spotlight.

 

[Koodo]

Even if it is true, and you're not just mass projecting, what do you think is a good way to try and build a bridge there? Exposure to the forces in the area via a successful parade where the cops show that they support you? I think so!

Again, do you want progress, or do you want things to stay as they are?

Questioning the reality that is the suffering of our vulnerable members by an "even if" argument is, frankly, demonstrating why BLM is in the right for their actions. I suggest you and others claiming a mantle of inclusivity extend at least an ear to the less privileged of our community rather than repeatedly ignoring their reality to appease an institution of power, for whatever personal reason. That's how you will find progress one day.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Intersectionality goes right out the window when the rights of black folk enter the equation it seems

 

[Poor GRIMES]

Because you can't do both? I don't know how the concept of social interaction and bonding as seen through a parade is escaping a few of you. It fosters seeds, seeds which can over time result in inclusive thinking and tear down some of the walls of bigotry, ignorance and abuses.

Heck, it's positive the police forces even want to be there and take part, and are actually disappointed they now can't. You could have forces that wouldn't even want to be there other than as "bodyguards". Think about that when you're acting like someone forced them to be there and to smile in some spotlight.

That's such an extremely low bar. The police want to be there, so they should be? Forgive me if I think the LGBTQ community hold themselves to higher standards.

 

[Audioboxer]

Questioning the reality that is the suffering of our vulnerable members by an "even if" argument is, frankly, demonstrating why BLM is in the right for their actions. I suggest you and others claiming a mantle of inclusivity extend at least an ear to the less privileged of our community rather than repeatedly ignoring their reality to appease an institution of power, for whatever personal reason. That's how you will find progress one day.

This event has a purpose and an aim for progress

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=228717736

I've still to hear a decent explanation for how this turn of events aims to progress relationships with the LGBT community and the police. Excluding them as an entity will only help foster more fear. Maybe that is the aim... Keep the cycle of fear going and actually erode any attempts, even if small, to foster improvements.

That's such an extremely low bar. The police want to be there, so they should be? Forgive me if I think the LGBTQ community hold themselves to higher standards.

The mission statement of pride as per their site sees this as a net positive. Go figure.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

Seeing firsthand that at least a large segment of not only the police but by extension the government have a concern for queer people is not something that should be underestimated. I have friends that are afraid to go to the police if they get abused in their relationship. Others have been afraid to report harassment and attacks to the police. Seeing police acceptance can make a huge difference to these people and people in similar situations. But fuck all them.

Going and presenting a happy face in a parade and substantially improving their culture and behavior are two entirely different things.

If you have a friend who's afraid of going to police if they get abused in their relationship, but now they feel OK about doing so because they saw the police in the parade, what's their reaction going to be if they actually find themselves in that situation and find out, oh, actually, I had the right idea about these motherfuckers in the first place?

A total ban might be going slightly too far (although it's certainly not my place to criticize as a white straight cis American), but the bar for having the inclusion of individuals from the police who show up in uniform as representatives of the force should be a record of actually reforming the department and not just the ability to show up and smile and get a positive PR hit. Any LGBT officers who want to attend are still more than welcome to attend, just as an individual and not as a representative of the police.

 

[Apathy]

Mike Earl, one of Toronto's higher ranking officers, referred to black people as "parasites" and "thugs", among other remarks. It's not just "a few bad apples", police culture's got a lot to work out here in Canada, hence why i'm in favor of this move. The police of Toronto, as a collective force, are neither promoting nor protecting the rights of the LGBTQ+ community or black/African Canadians.

Funny, you parrot what desmond cole said, but you seem to have not mentioned that hes talking about a violent gang group.

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...angs-combine-for-37-robberies-police-say.html

So you break it down to "oh hes talking about the black guys" when most would say "no, hes talking about a bunch of criminals". guess, what, I would call sick criminals parasites too. you know why? cause they are causing crimes, not because they are black.

 

[excelsiorlef]

This event has a purpose and an aim for progress

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=228717736

I've still to hear a decent explanation for how this turn of events aims to progress relationships with the LGBT community and the police. Excluding them as an intentity will only help foster more fear. Maybe that is the aim... Keep the cycle of fear going and actually erode any attempts, even if small, to foster improvements.



The mission statement of pride as per their site sees this as a net positive. Go figure.

Cops are welcome out of uniform

 

[Wuthering_Heights]

Gotta love that inclusiveness.

 

[the1npc]

Questioning the reality that is the suffering of our vulnerable members by an "even if" argument is, frankly, demonstrating why BLM is in the right for their actions. I suggest you and others claiming a mantle of inclusivity extend at least an ear to the less privileged of our community rather than repeatedly ignoring their reality to appease an institution of power, for whatever personal reason. That's how you will find progress one day.

Burning bridges will not lead to progress.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

Maybe that is the aim... Keep the cycle of fear going and actually erode any attempts, even if small, to foster improvements.

Yeah sure, blame the LGBTQ community, already a marginalized minority group, for the relationship ~woes~ between them and the police. I've had about enough of this. lol