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[GI.Biz | Opinion] How long can Microsoft float on goodwill?
- Thread starter 3liteDragon
- Start date
Punished Miku
Gold Member
That post was in response to someone arguing that Xbox gamers haven't even played HFR and are hyping it up as GOTY.
GHG
Member
It's not rational, that's why. We are just a few weeks into the year.
Let's take a trip down memory lane, it's early February 2022 and Sifu releases:
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/sifu-ot-old-boy.1629742/
Read through that thread again and contrast it with the Hi Fi Rush thread. One is a level headed thread, predominantly focused on discussing the game, no nonsense. Whereas a the other is a thread that tries to discuss the game from time to time but instead devolves into console warring and petty meta-commentary with great frequency. And Sifu did end up on quite a few people's GOTY lists BTW.
If you can't see the difference in tone and why extreme hyperbole results in pushback then I can't help you.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
GHG
Member
Well well, how the turn tables.
bender
What time is it?
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Punished Miku
Gold Member
The friendliest, most un-roguelike roguelike ever made. Constant story progression and permanent power up progression.
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Punished Miku
Gold Member
bender
What time is it?
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Punished Miku
Gold Member
I said Sifu is a roguelike that had zero chance of being GOTY. I didnt say no roguelike can ever be GOTY ever no matter what. I'm saying Sifu's roguelike structure severely hurt its appeal. Hades is literally the friendliest and least-roguelike roguelike ever made.
This is what I mean. Its just frustrating CONSTANTLY having to correct poor reading comprehension and gotchas for shit not even said.
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GHG
Member
I wouldn't. But other people have done on this very forum, after the dust settled. It also got nominated and was on a number of press lists as well which shows it indeed was one of the best releases of last year.
Despite that when you read through the OT thread people are simply discussing the game and matters around it without any ridiculous fake hype. Whereas the Hi Fi rush thread reads like people are experiencing a womans touch for the first time, and mods have had to delete posts from the thread coming from Xbox fans because they couldn't resist a console war attempt. The same shit went down in the flight sim thread, there was a very clear "before and after" from the PC release to the console release in the OT. So you tell us who is actually interested in playing games.
That makes two of us.
Eddie-Griffin
Banned
A whole year, we just saw the results of the experiment. They were able to float on good will the whole of 2022.
bender
What time is it?
I respect your capacity for empathy despite your bad taste.What some consider GOTY others may not
Heck my GOTY last year was Vampire Survivors
KXVXII9X
Member
Exactly. We shouldn't be fighting amongst each other and being petty. This year is stacked for everyone. Every console across the board will be filled with games. We are finally getting over the huge drought. We should enjoy it. Every console will be able to play some really great games this year.
DaGwaphics
Member
Basically end of discussion right there. The much bigger issue for GP subscribers is finding the time to fully enjoy everything.
sainraja
Member
Well, that doesn't automatically rule that out (that is, you voting Neon White). I just get the feeling based on how your recent posts have been, that if Stray were on Xbox, you'd be all over it and I am only using this game as an example because it was mentioned. Maybe that is not what you are doing but it definitely looks that way to me.
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Bonfires Down
Member
Pretty much. ”Gotta get my hit piece in before Starfield or it will be too late”.
GametimeUK
Member
I struggle with this. I constantly find people arguing with points I don't even make. I started to wonder if it was down to how I worded my sentences, but to be honest I'm convinced people are just dumb.
sainraja
Member
Well, it was first on PlayStation.
So it's definitely not sophisticated. So that is minus one.
It also isn't going to be on anyone's GOTY lists. So that is another minus. We're at -2 now.
I don't get the double-standard, but whatever. I am out of this conversation now. lol.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
david jaffe?
There’s more than a few people extremely effusive about the game and declaring it their GOTY in that thread.
Not much ‘pushback’
It’s also telling that quite a number of the folks doing the pushback for HFR haven’t even played the damn game.
PS: For what it’s worth, I think Sifu should have gotten that TGA GOTY nod ahead of Stray. Such a brilliant game
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Punished Miku
Gold Member
I really hate this forum sometimes.Well, it was first on PlayStation.
sainraja
Member
haha, sorry? I guess? lol. Just the impression I have been getting from ya. Maybe it is not the case but it's been coming across like that. I am exiting this conversation anyway. So, peace?I really hate this forum sometimes.
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GHG
Member
2 people:
One person who reaffirmed that it was indeed their GOTY later in the year in the very same thread:
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/sifu-ot-old-boy.1629742/page-8
And another who said it might be:
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/sifu-ot-old-boy.1629742/page-10#post-265600600
So no, not "more than a few".
And no, no pushback is necessary when there's nobody declaring it the "best new IP in the last 10 years" or words to that effect, less than a year after Elden Ring.
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anothertech
Member
The only problem here is ppl throwing around the GOTY label now trying to say a game like this is somehow comparable to Elden Ring, BOTW or God of WarR. It's so blatantly not on that level.
Top 10 list sure. Niche market fav why not. Fucking awesome game shadow dropped at the beginning of '23 absolutely.
But trying to make it compare to goty contenders of the past or future is bonkers.
Ppl arguing such is quite simply looking desperate and thirsty, which makes sense after a year like '22 for Xbox.
Top 10 list sure. Niche market fav why not. Fucking awesome game shadow dropped at the beginning of '23 absolutely.
But trying to make it compare to goty contenders of the past or future is bonkers.
Ppl arguing such is quite simply looking desperate and thirsty, which makes sense after a year like '22 for Xbox.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
No worries. 99% of my posts are some form of joke
Add in the fellow giving it 9.5/10 and claiming it'd have been second runner up for GOTY 2021.
Can't deny there were tons of impressions in that thread just as enthusiastically positive as posts that are being labeled 'hyperbolic' in the HFR thread.
I wonder the need for 'pushback' for what are essentially subjective opinions of a game's quality.
People are going "this is the most fun I've had in gaming in years" only for others to indignantly tell them they can't really be having that much fun. Weird shit.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Good grief man, you are a walking contradiction.
SIFU can't be GOTY because it has no appeal
But HFR can easily be a GOTY because an anime cell shaded rhythm action game is the most popular genre in existence in comparison.
Time for you to take the L on all that nonsense you keep spouting.
Jennings
Member
Jenn Kaelin.
Gentle reminder that It Takes Two won more GOTY 2021 awards than any other game.
Not to mention the flood of awards Hades won back in 2020.
In a year with expected HUGE bangers like Spiderman 2, Zelda and (potentially) Starfield and RE4 Remake, I don't expect HFR has much of a chance at winning GOTY at the TGAs or even overall. But to pretend like AA games haven't shown up in GOTY discussions in the past is - as you put it - simply bonkers.
Someone clearly hasn't read the Steam user reviews, many of which are way more positive than anything in this thread. I guess PC gamers were 'starved' too?
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1817230/reviews/?browsefilter=toprated&snr=1_5_100010_
KXVXII9X
Member
That is 100% purely your opinion and not a fact. Don't you dare try to erase other people's experiences and opinions because they don't line up to yours.
To sit here and act like people who praise HFR are just desperate Xbox fans is disgusting. I'm the last person to defend Xbox. This game is an ultimate dream of mine and I will give it the praise I freaking damn well please. I also highly praised Sifu and Stray from last year. I like these highly polished smaller scale games backed by big publishers.
Journey was a smaller game and got game of the year when big games like Fallout 3, Mass Effect 3, Dishonored, Assassin's Creed 3, Borderlands 2, Sleeping Dogs, Max Payne 3 Halo 4, Spec Ops the line, Diablo 3, CoD, Prototype 2, Kingdom Hearts DDD, and Dragon's Dogma were released.
It isn't unheard of.
HYDE
Banned
Oh shit…publisher of the year too!!"A new Xbox game is releasi..."
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Nailed it, but if you read my posts outside of my hype for this Hi Fi Rush you will see that I've given MS a lot of shit recently and that 2023 needs to be an absolute banger.
I actually agree with you....maybe that's scary lol
I like this make believe land. Don't take me out of it
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
I didn't say "most" of the positive WOM are from Xbox people on Twitter. I just said a lot of the push for it being "GOTY" caliber or whatnot seems to be coming from those sorts, or journalists who got caught up in the Cyberpunk fiasco (meaning at least to some degree, their words can't be taken for much anything serious). We don't have insight really on the sales, at least last I saw. While it apparently was outselling Forspoken on Steam for a little bit, it had way less concurrent players.
Steam is its own space, because it's not Microsoft's platform. It's Valve's. Whatever audience there is on Steam for games like Hi-Fi Rush, Valve cultivated that audience over years of games on their platform channeling similar vibes; Microsoft is simply benefiting from Valve's work in that respect. If the game were on a much smaller and less mainstream storefront, I doubt Hi-Fi Rush would have done much to boost traffic to that storefront.
In fact, we can kind of see that in a sense given very few of its PC sales are through the Windows Store, with Microsoft owns. I guess a good test would've been to see how it could have done for that store while withholding it from Steam for a little bit, but that's not what Microsoft decided to do.
Right. I'm just pointing that factor out, nothing more.
Lol, I never said those were GOTY games! And ultimately it's not up to me, it's up to the voting bodies that hold these awards and pick the nominees.
But if you're asking for my own opinion; GOTY titles should at least do one of the following:
-Be industry-leading in terms of graphics, game mechanics, narrative, or wide gaming impact regardless of genre type
-Push some type of aspect of gaming forward, raising the bar in that respect
-Have very strong initial impact and hold up strongly over the course of the year (if it came out near the start of the year)
Which is why I think people need to wait before giving any games, honestly, "GOTY" status, at least for games released so far this year. I'm not saying Hi-Fi Rush hasn't had, for example, a strong initial impact. It has. But at least to me it seems isolated mainly to the Xbox & PC (Steam) crowds, and there's no telling what staying power the game will have months from now. It's a pretty short game, so the question becomes what's its replay value like? How much can you push the game mechanics? Is the story and world still charming the 10th time as it was the 1st time?
Some of those questions, you don't necessarily need to ask for something like an Elden Ring, or GOWR, because those are much larger games that the majority will probably play once due to their size, and maybe dip in from time to time in repeat playthroughs (like if there's a New Game+ available). Much smaller games, you'd think, inherently lend themselves better to repeat playthroughs, if there's enough variety in what the game mechanics allow, or secrets in the game, to facilitate it.
Well, Hogwarts Legacy could also outsell it, all things considered. And if it actually releases this year, the Avatar game.
Yes, that's STEAM, though. It's funny; if you look at Skyrim's sales, most of the sales actually came from console, not PC. Someone had the breakdown a long time back and I pulled it for a reference in some post, but I'd have to search bookmarks to find it (I'm sure I bookmarked it).
But yeah, PC was not as big a chunk for that game's sales as people tend to think. Was probably the same case for Fallout 4 as well. We already know Starfield is skipping PS5, it also won't have a release on Switch. Maybe some of those people pick it up on Steam or an Xbox if they have one, but there are a LOT of other big games coming out this year for those platforms both multiplat and exclusive, that will probably drive down the need of a lot of those players to "feel" like they need to play Starfield at or near launch, if ever, even.
For example it's rumored Cory Balrog's team is working on a sci-fi epic of their own; if someone on PS5 finally has time in their schedule to play Starfield in late 2024, but say Cory's team's game comes out around that time and it looks even better/more ambitious/etc., then that's a customer who's probably going to hold off on Starfield even longer or just skip it altogether. There will probably be quite a few people like that, actually.
Like I said before, Starfield isn't releasing in a vacuum; even if it's not directly competing against a lot of other games genre-wise, lots of people have a broad range of tastes and limited amount of time to game, so they're going to prioritize what they want most, first. And let's not forget about the Game Pass effect; a lot of people, particularly on Xbox, are going to be playing Starfield through Game Pass rather than actually buying the game. That will impact total sales potential.
abacab driver
Banned
Funny you tried to be negative...but what you're really saying is that Microsoft just shadow dropped a game with:
- Combat comparable to what everyone likes in Devil May Cry/Bayonetta.
- Platforming comparable to what everyone likes in Crash Bandicoot/Ratchet and Clank.
- A vibe evocative of one of everyones favorite eras in gaming.
- Visuals and animation that look almost as if Don Bluth directed Jet Set Radio.
(And btw, this is the best looking cel-shaded game).
- Everything mentioned above, accentuated by being synched rhythmically to a fantastic, driving soundtrack..plus mechanics that encourage and reward you for playing on beat.
Sounds like a real shitstorm of a game eh?
No, all it took was for people to play the game before any bias/narrative was formed or any unsightly pictures were painted about it.
I almost feel like the event was called Developer DIRECT because they delivered a game DIRECTLY to the gamers; no media required.
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Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
You are absolutely correct that there are plenty of folks here who genuinely enjoy the game, some of them may even consider it game of the year material (the more I play, the more I think so myself). However, you also need to step back and take a look at the OT thread and remember the age old story of “The boy who cried wolf”. Take a look at the 3 individuals who are the most loud in that thread. DenchDeckard, SenjutsuSage, PunishedMiku. Some of the most aggressive and open console warriors (and in the case of Sage, a literal astroturfer) on the Xbox side. Why would anyone believe a console warrior, let alone a group of them, that often praise literally anything and everything that that company does? They have made these claims for so long that no one believes them and people who *are* really enjoying the game want them to shut their damn mouths because their word actively *hurts* the reality that this game is genuinely fantastic. Not to mention the other warriors who aren’t even talking about the game in taht thread, but instead bitching and throwing “shade” at the competitor. Thankfully mods are cutting them down as they rightfully should as they are utter twats ruining any actual discussion that can take place.
This can also be pointed out in a number of the Playstation threads as well, before that tired argument is brought up.
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KXVXII9X
Member
Hmm interesting. I didn't see too much aggressiveness on the OT but I'm still somewhat new to these forums still, so I am not familiar with the whole history of people's posts. I have made plenty of counter arguments to excessive Xbox praise. I just have a Nintendo Switch and PC so I can basically play anything. I'm just glad to share enjoyment with people as I seem to like games like HFR and Sifu. I have been mostly jaded lately with gaming and this was everything I wanted. I get kind of frustrated when people make assumptions about people who genuinely enjoy the game.
GHG
Member
So now you're stretching it to include journalists? In case you aren't clear, we're talking about users of this forum, not random journalists.
To argue the tone of the two referenced threads are similar is one of the most disingenuous takes possible.
Gavon West
Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
It's not goodwill that Microsoft is riding. They just bought a slew of developers and IPs and people know the games are in the oven. I believe they'll deliver soon enough. My take...
Dr. Suchong
Member
This gif made my stomach hurt through laughing
Unknown?
Member
That's only because inflation is making dollars worthless.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
What goodwill?
Disclaimer: I only read the title.
Disclaimer: I only read the title.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Doesn't it bother anyone that they just dropped Tango's newest game without any promotion?
I mean its also kinda funny that when a hyped game has a review embargo that's bad, but just shadowdropping a thing without reviews is fine... But the key thing, is that games generally only hang around in the public consciousness for a certain amount of time, so its generally considered wise to maximize that time by drawing attention to it.
Now ok, they did drop it on their first "developer direct", but its not an E3 showcase. They have only really tried to sell it to people inside their ecosystem.
It doesn't show a lot of confidence to just use a game -apparently a very good game- as an "added value" gimmick for current users. People outside that ecosystem are just going to give it a quick glance and file it away under "gamepass fodder".
Now look, its early days and maybe the game will blow up big through word-of-mouth, I hope it does if it deserves it. But. If it does, will MS deserve any credit for that success?
Just saying, its not how you treat a game from developer you value particularly.
I mean its also kinda funny that when a hyped game has a review embargo that's bad, but just shadowdropping a thing without reviews is fine... But the key thing, is that games generally only hang around in the public consciousness for a certain amount of time, so its generally considered wise to maximize that time by drawing attention to it.
Now ok, they did drop it on their first "developer direct", but its not an E3 showcase. They have only really tried to sell it to people inside their ecosystem.
It doesn't show a lot of confidence to just use a game -apparently a very good game- as an "added value" gimmick for current users. People outside that ecosystem are just going to give it a quick glance and file it away under "gamepass fodder".
Now look, its early days and maybe the game will blow up big through word-of-mouth, I hope it does if it deserves it. But. If it does, will MS deserve any credit for that success?
Just saying, its not how you treat a game from developer you value particularly.
Don’t spread the stupid please friendXbox ambassador… yikes
thismeinteil
Member
Sales say otherwise.