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NYC Invites Toronto Police To Pride Parade - In Uniform
- Thread starter CazTGG
- Start date
This doesn't make it at all okay, this is exclusionary which is practically the opposite of what the parade is about.
The cops are allowed to attend Pride in spite of their support to defund the organization. That is the opposite of exclusionary. Again, read the statement.
LinkAndEpona
Banned
What's the right way for a group of marginalized people to speak up against an oppressive institution?
Well in America, one small BLM branch reached out to their local police department and actually shares a BBQ with them, that was an incredibly positive way to start a dialog for change.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Well in America, one small BLM branch reached out to their local police department and actually shares a BBQ with them, that was an incredibly positive way to start a dialog for change.
Hahahahaha oh lawd. BBQs gonna save you from the police black people. You heard it here first.
Look, it's sad black people are harassed and abused by officers, and especially black LGBT people, but do they really need to complain? Can't they just be respectable, wear a suit, and not stand in the way of anything? And yes, some cops will harass them anyway, create bullshit charges, make their lives a nightmare, and that's just life it happens.
But what is unacceptable is that a gay man can't wear the symbol of the oppressor, and that's the real oppression happening here.
/s
But what is unacceptable is that a gay man can't wear the symbol of the oppressor, and that's the real oppression happening here.
/s
LinkAndEpona
Banned
The cops are allowed to attend Pride in spite of their support to defund the organization. That is the opposite of exclusionary. Again, read the statement.
We are simply requesting that their participation not include the following elements: uniform, weapons, and vehicles.
Sounds very welcoming and appreciative indeed.
Perfect Blue
Banned
I go every year and couldn't give less of a shit that the cops won't be having a float this year. It's not a right, it's a privilege and if they want to participate officially they should earn it.
disclosure: I'm a straight, white dude
disclosure: I'm a straight, white dude
LinkAndEpona
Banned
Hahahahaha oh lawd. BBQs gonna save you from the police black people. You heard it here first.
I'd prefer a cook off than standing in the middle the highway.
Yes because expressing your identity requires a gun.We are simply requesting that their participation not include the following elements: uniform, weapons, and vehicles.
Sounds very welcoming and appreciative indeed.
Gotdatmoney
Member
I'd prefer a cook off than standing in the middle the highway.
Good thing the advancement of POC's rights arent lead by you then. We'd still all be ban from the white only fountain.
You'd be the type to complain about the march to montgomery, huhI'd prefer a cook off than standing in the middle the highway.
Either of you care to explain what was wrong with a peaceful protest that had reasonable demands of Pride TO, of which the organization voted on and agreed to follow for this year's event?
Stopping the Pride parade and refusing to let to continue until their demands were met is a pretty poor way to display themselves. It was a very childish move on their part.
Pride is a very inclusive event, but BLM TO wanted it to be all about them and got mad because the Toronto Police were there. There is absolutely no harm in having the Toronto Police Department at Pride in uniform. It shows that there's a strong bond between the city and groups like Pride TO.
What BLM TO did was make Pride TO an exclusionary event which is nearly the exact opposite of what Pride TO is all about.
I go every year and couldn't give less of a shit that the cops won't be having a float this year. It's not a right, it's a privilege and if they want to participate officially they should earn it.
disclosure: I'm a straight, white dude
But they had earned it... but some other 'marginalized' and 'oppressed' group shifted the focus to their demands which caused Toronto PD to lose their float and participation.
So you also think the march on washington, bloody sunday, worker strikes, and the bus boycott were bad too? These events were all twice as disruptive as any modern day highway march so you must right?I'd prefer a cook off than standing in the middle the highway.
But they had earned it... but some other 'marginalized' and 'oppressed' group shifted the focus to their demands which caused Toronto PD to lose their float and participation.
your quotation marks seem to claim black people haven't been marginalized or oppressed by Toronto PD
Gotdatmoney
Member
But they had earned it... but some other 'marginalized' and 'oppressed' group shifted the focus to their demands which caused Toronto PD to lose their float and participation.
Yes, because there is no intersection between LGBTQ and POC :/
The fact you put marginalized and oppressed in quotations says it all.
unpopularblargh
Member
your quotation marks seem to claim black people haven't been marginalized or oppressed by Toronto PD
Or that black people aren't part of the LGBTQ community. It's like a cycle. Rinse and repeat.
Yes, because there is no intersection between LGBTQ and POC :/
The fact you put marginalized and oppressed in quotations says it all.
your quotation marks seem to claim black people haven't been marginalized or oppressed by Toronto PD
That's how they have been described by others in this thread.
Of course there's an intersection of LGBTQ persons and persons of colour.
But why does BLM TO get a pass for stopping the parade and demanding that the cops, who were doing absolutely no harm at the event, from participating?
No place for cops at a Pride Parade.
Why??
Perfect Blue
Banned
Look, it's quite simple: if the TPS wants to participate it has to earn the respect and goodwill of the organizers and everyone involved with Pride TO.But they had earned it... but some other 'marginalized' and 'oppressed' group shifted the focus to their demands which caused Toronto PD to lose their float and participation.
TPS isn't even trying to do that though. Instead they are out here like petulant children trying to get Pride defunded. A good first step would be to end carding.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Yes because expressing your identity requires a gun.
A gun is whatever, but no uniforms or squad cars? A parade that is known for being over-the-top and celebrating all aspects of gay culture and identity excluding a particular subset of gay people from expressing their vocational identity because it is overlapping (but not interchangeable) with oppression seems more like pettiness than substantively socially just.
Stopping the Pride parade and refusing to let to continue until their demands were met is a pretty poor way to display themselves. It was a very childish move on their part.
Pride is a very inclusive event, but BLM TO wanted it to be all about them and got mad because the Toronto Police were there. There is absolutely no harm in having the Toronto Police Department at Pride in uniform. It shows that there's a strong bond between the city and groups like Pride TO.
What BLM TO did was make Pride TO an exclusionary event which is nearly the exact opposite of what Pride TO is all about.
Setting aside that Pride itself literally started off as a protest and what BLM TO did was completely in spirit of Pride, the police are the ones with a "taking my ball and going home" attitude by supporting the calls for defunding the event they use as a PR boost. Moreover, if you'd actually read their requests, BLM TO was completely reasonable and Pride seemed to agree given they voted on and agreed with their demands. The police are the unreasonable party in this situation.
But they had earned it... but some other 'marginalized' and 'oppressed' group shifted the focus to their demands which caused Toronto PD to lose their float and participation.
Would the time they "earned it" be before or after the continuous oppression of LGBTQ+ folks like Project Marie or the Pussy Palace raids? The oppression of black people like Andrew Loku or with carding?
Sure, they've earned it by doing jack to solve the underlying systemic discrimination present in police culture.
A gun is whatever, bet no uniforms or squad cars?
Yes, there should be no symbol of a system that oppresses them.
unpopularblargh
Member
They're not getting a pass. People continue to shit on them everyday. There are threats for taking away Pride's funding because of this. No one's getting a pass.That's how they have been described by others in this thread.
Of course there's an intersection of LGBTQ persons and persons of colour.
But why does BLM TO get a pass for stopping the parade and demanding that the cops, who were doing absolutely no harm at the event, from participating?
Why??
Also BLM gets a say the same reason any other ethnicity would get a say. They're part of the LGBTQ community.
Because they still harass a significant portion of the community. You can't call yourself an ally of LGBTQ and not be an ally to the nonwhite. That's like saying you love nuts but think cashews are an abomination.That's how they have been described by others in this thread.
Of course there's an intersection of LGBTQ persons and persons of colour.
But why does BLM TO get a pass for stopping the parade and demanding that the cops, who were doing absolutely no harm at the event, from participating?
Why??
gutter_trash
Banned
calling Justin Trudeau a White Supremist pretty much invalidates anything BLM-TO has to sayFuck BLM-TO. They are the definition of a hate group.
And fuck Pride Toronto for accepting their demands
Look, it's quite simple: if the TPS wants to participate it has to earn the respect and goodwill of the organizers and everyone involved with Pride TO.
TPS isn't even trying to do that though. Instead they are out here like petulant children trying to get Pride defunded. A good first step would be to end carding.
So all of the previous years of their participation no longer matters because BLM TO made demands that the police can't be there in uniform in the future??
Gotdatmoney
Member
That's how they have been described by others in this thread.
I'm sure that's why you used them. Anyway.
But why does BLM TO get a pass for stopping the parade and demanding that the cops, who were doing absolutely no harm at the event, from participating?
What pass, they got fucking shit on by the general public last year for doing that. Ignoring you're selective memory, a protest is disruptive and if they thought people would actually listen to their thoughts and desires they would have chosen other avenues. Further more, it's your opinion that the police's presence serves no harm at pride. BLM Toronto has made it perfectly clear why they don't want the police there.
We are simply requesting that their participation not include the following elements: uniform, weapons, and vehicles.
Sounds very welcoming and appreciative indeed.
So we go from exclusion of pride to it just being less accommodating than normal.
I'd say that's a win-win.
Gotdatmoney
Member
calling Justin Trudeau a White Supremist pretty much invalidates anything BLM-TO has to say
It's been explained to you multiple times that the co founder who is no longer with the chapter made those comments. Stop.
Perfect Blue
Banned
Who cares? The past years are irrelevant. Refer to my previous post.So all of the previous years of their participation no longer matters because BLM TO made demands that the police can't be there in uniform in the future??
Pride voted for BLM TO's proposals and they passed. It was a democratic process.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Yes, there should be no symbol of a system that oppresses them.
Seeing this through to its logical conclusion would see nobody but black and indigenous lesbians and trans folk marching in the parade.
The police are assholes all over the continent, but telling gay police officers they are not welcome to march in their uniforms unless their department over which they do not specifically have administrative authority capitulates to a list of demands certainly seems like being exclusionary for the sake of being exclusionary, to no particularly socially just end.
LinkAndEpona
Banned
Yes because expressing your identity requires a gun.
Not all police officers carry firearms you know.
These replies to me are becoming toxic, I'm done.
Perfect Blue
Banned
The last "A" in LGBTQIAA means "Ally".Seeing this through to its logical conclusion would see nobody but black and indigenous lesbians and trans folk marching in the parade.
You're not serious are you ?calling Justin Trudeau a White Supremist pretty much invalidates anything BLM-TO has to say
Seeing this through to its logical conclusion would see nobody but black and indigenous lesbians and trans folk marching in the parade.
That's not how symbols work.
Not all police officers carry firearms you know.
These replies to me are becoming toxic, I'm done.
#NotAllOfficers #BadApple.
You're not serious are you ?
Gutter's repeated that multiple times whenever BLM TO pops up. He is completely serious.
Why are we considering police officers an identity now? A cop can stop being a cop or simply remove their uniform to chill. A POC can never do that. If cops want to be welcomed then they should make active commitments to improving their relations with the POC community. If gay cops hate this they should be asking how things got so bad that BLM(and the rest of the council) decided to exclude them but they've shown quite clearly they don't care.A gun is whatever, but no uniforms or squad cars? A parade that is known for being over-the-top and celebrating all aspects of gay culture and identity excluding a particular subset of gay people from expressing their vocational identity because it is overlapping (but not interchangeable) with oppression seems more like pettiness than substantively socially just.
At the end of the day society should prioritize protecting those who can't ever escape the identity by which a group is oppressed. In this case its is the POC
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
The last "A" in LGBTQIAA means "Ally".
But the point is that whiteness, maleness, cisness, and maybe even Christian-ness could all be argued as symbols of systems of oppression, so if the exclusion of such things is the argument in favor of barring gay cops from wearing their uniforms or driving their squad cars, it is logically arbitrary to stop there.
Why are we considering police officers an identity now? A cop can stop being a cop or simply remove their uniform to chill. A POC can never do that. If cops want to be welcomed then they should make active commitments to improving their relations with the POC community. If gay cops hate this they should be asking how things got so bad that BLM(and the rest of the council) decided to exclude them but they've shown quite clearly they don't care.
At the end of the day society should prioritize protecting those who can't ever escape the identity by which a group is oppressed. In this case its is the POC
Were it not the case that vocational identity is definitely a part of Pride parades (at least the ones I've attended), you might have a point.
Regardless, the case for why excluding gay cops from marching in pride parades serves a protective, rather than a vindictive function has not been made to my satisfaction. If it has to yours, well, congrats.
You never answered my question about the disruptive boycotts so I'm going to assume you expect everyone to just sit in silence while they get oppresed. Thanks for your contribution.Not all police officers carry firearms you know.
These replies to me are becoming toxic, I'm done.
indigo lily
Member
I'd prefer a cook off than standing in the middle the highway.
wow.
Man i knew what I was going to see when I clicked on this thread but... I'm always amazed at how disappointed and depressed I feel afterwards.
calling Justin Trudeau a White Supremist pretty much invalidates anything BLM-TO has to say
I'm a bit of a Trudeau stan myself but wow I hope you're not serious.
You're making no sense here none of those parallels workBut the point is that whiteness, maleness, cisness, and maybe even Christian-ness could all be argued as symbols of systems of oppression, so if the exclusion of such things is the argument in favor of barring gay cops from wearing their uniforms or driving their squad cars, it is logically arbitrary to stop there.
Except you can't remove any of these things without significant physical alterations. People are just asking them to not wear the uniforms.But the point is that whiteness, maleness, cisness, and maybe even Christian-ness could all be argued as symbols of systems of oppression, so if the exclusion of such things is the argument in favor of barring gay cops from wearing their uniforms or driving their squad cars, it is logically arbitrary to stop there.
Also all those identities have significant vocal groups standing with POC. What significant group found and led by cops(LGBTQ or otherwise) have aided POC in stopping police oppression?
Perfect Blue
Banned
Since you seem to like Late Spring, you can't be a bad dude but I don't think this comparison works. For one, you can take off a police officer's uniform.But the point is that whiteness, maleness, cisness, and maybe even Christian-ness could all be argued as symbols of systems of oppression, so if the exclusion of such things is the argument in favor of barring gay cops from wearing their uniforms or driving their squad cars, it is logically arbitrary to stop there.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
You're making no sense here none of those parallels work
"Symbols of systems of oppression" was the barometer. Even going with the "you can take off a police officer's uniform", well, there are physical markers of all of those identities that can be removed or made minimally visible. The point is that, going by that logic, the choice of oppressive symbols to exclude is basically logically arbitrary. It is alright for that to be the case, but it's also not likely to be universally convincing, as it isn't for me. I am unconvinced by the arguments as to why letting gay cops march in their uniforms does anything to create real, substantive harm on virtually every level, and the arguments seem to be rooted more in a general "fuck cops" ethos - and ethos I share, btw, but which I do not think is appropriately applicable to something like a parade.
But the point is that whiteness, maleness, cisness, and maybe even Christian-ness could all be argued as symbols of systems of oppression, so if the exclusion of such things is the argument in favor of barring gay cops from wearing their uniforms or driving their squad cars, it is logically arbitrary to stop there.
As it's been repeated several times:
-LGBT cops can attend Pride if they want to, just not in uniform or with weapons or patrol vehicles.
-Cops are not an identity in the same way that being black, gay, etc. is
-White cis people attending Pride is not the same thing as having officers getting a PR boost by being in a picture while enacting the likes of Project Marie on the LGBTQ+ community and calling for Pride to be defunded because they don't get a float dedicated to them
Stop being willfully obtuse.
LookAtMeGo
Member
I read the title as "NYC says fuck you to Toronto Pride"
Gotdatmoney
Member
Regardless, the case for why excluding gay cops from marching in pride parades serves a protective, rather than a vindictive function has not been made to my satisfaction. If it has to yours, well, congrats.
Not being allowed to wear your state sanctioned uniform does not mean you have been barred from pride. A police uniform is a symbol of power in society and affords members of that institution powers far beyond regular citizens. They shouldn't even be allowed to wear that shit anywhere outside of work period.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Not being allowed to wear your state sanctioned uniform does not mean you have been barred from pride. A police uniform is a symbol of power in society and affords members of that institution powers far beyond regular citizens. They shouldn't even be allowed to wear that shit anywhere outside of work period.
I didn't say they were barred from pride. I said they were barred from marching in pride in the markers of their profession, whereas other aspects of vocational identity gays can conceivably adopt for themselves are NOT barred from the parade, even as discrimination can be found in a multitude of fields, albeit in less visible and certainly less overtly physical forms.