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[the1npc]

The best way to show people that the police is on their side is by actually doing the work day in day out that proves it.

Not a fuckin float.

Why cant it be both?

 

[ginger ninja]

I'm pretty sure that LGBT officers don't spend all of their free time in uniform. In fact, I'd wager a guess that when they're off the clock and not working a security detail (do Canadian cops even do that?), they're probably in regular ass clothes and not their uniform.

This is a really bad analogy.

Cops want to attend the parade in their uniforms because being a cop and being gay is both parts of their identity to which the opposite side is saying: fuck off. Forget floats, the very specific clause about cops in uniform basically says anyone having anything to do with law enforcement isn't welcome.

As someone who also wears a uniform, when you join a force of any kind, most of the time it becomes such a big part of your life, it essentially defines you as a person.

 

[evanmisha]

No I'm not. Emotional interests stem from being raised in a devout religious household and being around a lot of homosexual bigotry. Still am whenever I debate my parents on homosexuality. It's probably why you'll see me debate religion a lot on GAF. I understand this topic has nothing to do with that, but in this case I just seen this as a backwards move to try and bridge relationships for a minority.

Now that you've asked this, and where I'm from, and given your post earlier about deleting your own posts, I'm going to guess you don't like my input. Fair enough but please challenge it if that's the case and don't get too personal. I did post in here just with my feelings at the top of page 5 and then others starting engaging with me so the debate happened.

I ask because I'm reading through your posts in this thread, and they seem almost entirely devoid of queries. You're talking to people who live here and are members of the community in question, and what you're saying is a long series of conclusions.

Knowing that you're someone who doesn't live here and is not themselves queer, I wonder then why the fuck you aren't thinking, "Why do certain people of color in Toronto feel actively at odds with the Toronto Police Services?" or "What sort of relationship do queer people of color have with the Toronto Police Services?" or "What sort of variables might influence the experience a queer person of color has when interacting with the Toronto Police Services?" or "What policies do the Toronto Police Services enforce with regard to trans sex workers?" or "How do the laws of Toronto impact the relationship between queer people of color and the Toronto Police Services and what does the latter party do to acknowledge this?" or "How long has Toronto Pride been taking place and how do the Toronto Police Services factor into this?" or "Who are the members of Black Lives Matter Toronto pushing directly for these changes and what experiences have they had with the Toronto Police Services and how might this have influenced their perspectives?" or "What changes in Pride Toronto leadership, if any, took place since the sit-in and did that influence this vote?" or "Is there some correlation between the demand for more people of color in Pride Toronto leadership and the shameful resignation of its previous Executive Director?" or any number of other questions that might give you some insight into why SOME people MIGHT have a justifiable concern with the presence of the Toronto Police Services.

Instead, you say:

This is rather damaging for the community.

Anyway, yeah, the forces, let alone the whole world, hasn't been kind to homosexuals in history. This is but one small slice of everyone's time to try and promote inclusion in the gay community with the forces who have no doubt wronged them in history. It shouldn't be pissed away if as the cop above has said things have gone well in the parades.

You don't go attacking an event like this unless the actual event itself has caused problems.

And sure, many gay pride events may have started as protests, but the aim is to try and turn them into inclusive, loving and caring community events. Not stay as rigid protesting till the end of time if progress can be nudged forward to love and care.

Forced or unnecessary exclusion is destructive. Look at the objective evidence from last year's event. Police enjoyed it and the event seemed to go well. So why would a step forward in 2017 be taking exclusionary measures? That's a disciplinary measure that should be used if things didn't go well.

Anyway, if you want LGBT progress you fight for inclusion. Exclusion is not progress. It's quite simple really.

Even if it is true (groups and individuals in the LGBT community being triggered by the presence of police, and you're not just mass projecting, what do you think is a good way to try and build a bridge there? Exposure to the forces in the area via a successful parade where the cops show that they support you? I think so! Again, do you want progress, or do you want things to stay as they are?

I don't know how the concept of social interaction and bonding as seen through a parade is escaping a few of you. It fosters seeds, seeds which can over time result in inclusive thinking and tear down some of the walls of bigotry, ignorance and abuses.

You don't know whether this event has caused problems. You are not a member of this community in any way and have no right to speak as to what does or does not damage it. You don't get to say what does or does not result in LGBT progress. You don't get to quantify LGBT progress. Your only attachment to this event seems to be that you're something of a parade enthusiast which, while interesting, means dick.

Many gay pride events may have started as protests, this is true! One specifically is this one. A riot complete with ample property damage that ended in a cloud of at least 2000 people screaming outside of 52 division and was openly anti-police into the 90s. You seem so convinced by your one piece of research that Toronto Pride 2016 was a roaring success, but do you know what I remember as someone who was there? Certainly the sit-in, but more to my point I remember the controversy surrounding LGBTory, a group of Conservative politicians inserting themselves into the affair as if a few short months later they wouldn't be debating the merits of openly anti-LGBT leadership candidates vying for the prime-ministership of this country.

You don't know this because you don't live here and it doesn't affect you. Why then, do you think any of us could benefit from your opinion? Because you read an article from The Star? Because you're oddly self-righteous?

Ask questions. Learn. Watch this, it's a great place to start. Unless you honestly believe the majority of Pride Toronto leadership is acting in bad faith by voting for these changes to their policies and that the activists pushing for said changes were all delusional or malicious.

Or, better yet, leave. Stop caring what little amount you do. You don't live here, this will never affect you in any way, and it's frankly weird that you would debate local politics with someone from a different continent after a cursory Google search.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Cops want to attend the parade in their uniforms because being a cop and being gay is both parts of their identity to which the opposite side is saying: fuck off. Forget floats, the very specific clause about cops in uniform basically says anyone having anything to do with law enforcement isn't welcome.

As someone who also wears a uniform, when you join a force of any kind, most of the time it becomes such a big part of your life, it essentially defines you as a person.

Yes wearing your cop uniform is on the level of having a different skin tone. Because if this is not what you are saying it should be obvious which one of these has priority. And no, there is no way around this, given the situation at hand. You have to choose which you value more because the poc portion of the LGBT community has drawn a line in the sand.

I know people don't like that but, that is reality.

 

[Liberty4all]

I lived in downtown Toronto, the Parade went past my old apartment near Yonge and Gerrard.

In the last 10 years it went to being a massive city wide party with a million or more people flooding the core of Toronto. Police floats, mayor, major bank floats, etc .... I know some felt this was a sellout but I always felt this helped normalized things to the mainstream which helps the LGBTQ community.

Disclaimer: not part of the community myself. I say that from the viewpoint of watching the mainstream going over 15 years from being openly hostile towards the parade, to grabbing waterguns and bringing their own floats too.

 

[Dalibor68]

As far as I know yes

Then that is absolutely shameful. Does she have a leading role or just a normal member?

 

[Newt]

Forcing exclusion in a parade that's supposed to be inclusive is not the way to go.

Antagonizing people doesn't lead to progress.

I don't live in Toronto, but if they're like the police in Alberta, I don't think they deserve treatment like that.

 

[MWS Natural]

So the point of this parade is for inclusion, yet they opted for exclusion.
Hypocritical.

GAY

BLACK

POLICE


ONE OF THESE THINGS ARE NOT LIKE THE OTHER.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Forcing exclusion in a parade that's supposed to be inclusive is not the way to go.

Antagonizing people doesn't lead to progress.

I don't live in Toronto, but if they're like the police in Alberta, I don't think they deserve treatment like that.

Police officers are welcome out of uniform