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[Hedge]

And it's really good that you didn't feel that when you played it - I kinda envy you :lol. But I felt the whole exhaustion and crying and moaning were grating to me personally, especially with Luddington's vulnerable voice that sounds like it's about to crack every second if she steps on a branch or a twig. It was even worse considering that I never see male action heroes be exposed to the same type of characterization compared to the fact that "old" Lara Croft used to be a no-nonsense kind of action hero with good voice acting instead of



Yeah I agree that TWD and TLOU did a pretty admirable job in their writing and presentation. It's just a fascinating trend to watch in higher profile games is what I'm saying.

If one is seeing '13 Lara as the female Nathan, then yes, I completely understand why it would be a grating experience.
I think the opposite is true for me, maybe. I have always found stylized portrayals of people dull and I crave actual feelings and human portrayals. That is why I truly hope that we will see a lot more of male versions of '13 Lara so we can have non-idealized men, and more female Uncharted characters to push the balance.
I think in general, though, it would be nice to have protags show remorse when taking lethal action when they never have before. I know I, personally, would probably pass out from terror.

 

[patapuf]

Yeah, exactly, another good post grandwizard that I totally agree with. It's kind of hilarious to watch these games suddenly do the whole "Old father figure protects vulnerable daughter-type" being repeated again and again these days:

• Last of Us with Joel and Ellie
• Witcher 3 with Geralt and Ciri
• Bioshock 3 with Booker dude and Elizabeth
• Walking Dead 1 with Lee and Clementine

Apparently all the male game developers in charge are growing up and getting families. :lol

Not sure i'd categorize the Witcher 3 as "protect the vulnerable daughter type". I'd say it went a step further in portraying a father-daughter (and mother) type relationship.

but yeah, it's been an interesting trend to see rise, not just in gaming.

 

[OléGunner]

I agree. The themes are at least somewhat new and interesting, instead of all the copy-paste stories out there.
I thought The Last of Us was a good portrayal with a lot of depth.

Yeah I agree that TWD and TLOU did a pretty admirable job in their writing and presentation. It's just a fascinating trend to watch in higher profile games is what I'm saying.

Yup both those games did it right. There's nothing wrong with wanting the player to protect and care for another character you just have to go about it the right way.

Part of the reason for both games success is in video games rarity to convey such personal caring relationships without the approach of a jack hammer.

WoW.....

It is emotionally relatable learning to kill whilst getting brutalised on a random island./s

 

[patapuf]

I honestly don't think the whole "relatable/vulnerable Lara" is all that sinister an attempt. It was just executed poorly.

It's kind of hard to have grounded character development and go form a inexperinced student to a world known adventurer/explorer when most of what you do in the game is shooting from pretty much minute 15.

 

[Lime]

In your context everything is sexist unless it 100 percent follows your rationale.

Huh? I don't understand this at all. I think you're misreading or projecting something.

I honestly don't think the whole "relatable/vulnerable Lara" is all that sinister an attempt. It was just executed poorly.

It's kind of hard to have grounded character development and go form a inexperinced student to a world known adventurer/explorer when most of what you do in the game is shooting from pretty much minute 15.

It's yet another example of bringing a writer on board the team separate from your design team. Pratchett has said that she came in after the fact and had to patch up the narrative, while the design team were doing their whole thing. Same thing happened to her with Mirror's Edge.

Crystal Dynamics has explicitly said they had to ramp up the action as soon as possible for the player, which also says a lot about their confidence in their own design abilities and their expectations of player intelligence. They don't think they can make interesting design scenarios without having shooting in them, while also thinking that players cannot handle slow upstarts. TLOU is a good counter example to this where the developers are confident enough to pull of a slow escalation of action and introduction without throwing explosions and scripted bombastic setpieces into your face from the get-go.

 

[patapuf]

Huh? I don't understand this at all. I think you're misreading or projecting something.



It's yet another example of bringing a writer on board the team separate from your design team. Pratchett has said that she came in after the fact and had to patch up the narrative, while the design team were doing their whole thing. Same thing happened to her with Mirror's Edge.

Crystal Dynamics has explicitly said they had to ramp up the action as soon as possible for the player, which also says a lot about their confidence in their own design abilities and their expectations of player intelligence. They don't think they can make interesting design scenarios without having shooting in them, while also thinking that players cannot handle slow upstarts. TLOU is a good counter example to this where the developers are confident enough to pull of a slow escalation of action and introduction without throwing explosions and scripted bombastic setpieces into your face from the get-go.

Absolutely. But it's part of something TR 2013 is doing over and over: copying design elements that are currently popular. Otherwise i can't explain why they'd want to shoehorn a YA novel style plot into an action game. It was never going to work right.

 

[correojon]

I didn´t finish the previous Tomb Raider and I won´t be getting the new one. What I loved about Tomb Raider was the cool platforming and the high mobility of Lara, even during combat, but now it has become "generic 3rd person shooter #3435654". It´s no longer Tomb Raider apart from the name, so I can´t see how turning Lara into "Leon S. Kennedy with an origin story" has saved anything.

 

[zsynqx]

It's yet another example of bringing a writer on board the team separate from your design team. Pratchett has said that she came in after the fact and had to patch up the narrative, while the design team were doing their whole thing. Same thing happened to her with Mirror's Edge.

Crystal Dynamics has explicitly said they had to ramp up the action as soon as possible for the player, which also says a lot about their confidence in their own design abilities and their expectations of player intelligence. They don't think they can make interesting design scenarios without having shooting in them, while also thinking that players cannot handle slow upstarts. TLOU is a good counter example to this where the developers are confident enough to pull of a slow escalation of action and introduction without throwing explosions and scripted bombastic setpieces into your face from the get-go.

The reason The Last of Us was successful on this front was because the two directors were both equals with one in charge of story one in charge of gameplay. They had to see eye to eye making sure the gameplay worked with the story and vice versa. That partnership (of Bruce/Neil) is why I have such high hopes for UC4s narrative and how it ties in with the gameplay, The slow start was actually one of the areas criticized by many in TLOU including myself. However, I don't believe it was a problem with pacing but more to do with the fact that the design/art was at it's worst in those early sections in Boston.

 

[RagnarokX]

Man, CD is really in love of the awful character they created. It's all they talk about.

Lara was an icon and she was a sex symbol. Her sex symbol status was mostly marketing. In the games she was just a badass strong confident woman who went on adventures for the thrill. As she tells Natla in the first game, she only plays for sport.

Ever since CD took over the franchise they've been absolutely obsessed with giving Lara a reason to be who she is that undermines her strength. First they made her completely motivated by finding her missing mommy and following in her daddy's footsteps and had her constantly talk to an annoying support crew. Then they rebooted her again into a wreck of a character who can't decide if she's a scared inexperienced weakling or Rambo while also having an awful cast of friends supporting her.

Sure old Lara wasn't that complex a character, but the games weren't about Lara. Lara was just an excuse for the games. She's an adventurer who loves adventure and stumbles upon an adventure and goes on adventure! Adventure-packed game with amazing level design and gameplay follows! That's all you need. It's a game, not a movie.

That doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't have story and character, obviously. Last Revelation really upped the quality of story and character while keeping Lara badass and keeping the focus on amazing level design and gameplay. The problem is that CD is obsessed with story and character to the point that they harm the gameplay and level design.

 

[2+2=5]

Honestly i think it's the exact opposite, back in the first TR games Lara was an icon, now she's just a sexy girl like many others, i think this is part due to the art style, when Lara was blocky she was immediately recognizable, now that she's realistic she's exactly like many others characters and for this reason less recognizable, Mario is iconic because he's immediately recognizable, the day he becomes realistic will become like many other characters and so less recognizable.

 

[Hedge]

In your context everything is sexist unless it 100 percent follows your rationale.

I think there is a fundamental problem in that "sexist" has become a term in the mainstream media that is conflating the academical and the catch-all meaning.
More people are adopting or arguing against a Feminist view without thinking of it as just another methodological approach to a problem.
The point of Feminist Theory as tool of analysis is to point out unfair imbalances between men and women from a womans perspective. That is the purpose.
Sexist doesn't mean malicious, but just an imbalance of a percieved power in favour of men. If you use Feminist Theory as an approach, the entire premise is that you are looking for these imbalances.

You shouldn't take "this is a sexist portrayal" as meaning there is anything intentionally malicious behind it. The sexism is there because of an imbalance that enforces a very specific structure, in very general terms.

 

[Mman235]

I like to think of Lara Croft as an Icon like James Bond is.

Tomb Raider Eras are like James Bond Eras:

Tomb Raider 1/2/3 - Sean Connery

Tomb Raider Last Revelation/Chronicles/Angel of Darkness - Roger Moore/Timothy Dalton

Tomb Raider Legend/Anniversary/Underworld- Pierce Brosnan

Some could say the Tomb Raider Reboot and Rise of the Tomb Raider of this gen are the Daniel Craig era of grittiness and bring divisiveness among fans.

Sean Connery is the prefect Bond. The films may be a bit dated now (first was 50 years ago) but doesn't detract from the fact that he nailed the role.

Underrated Bonds are Lazenby and Dalton, both did a good job, neither was popular. Most overrated Bond is Brosnan, no grit to him and the films went from bad to complete trash during his time in role.

Craig is a decent Bond, probably closer to Connery than anyone else. Moore played it too much for laughs, some great films in his time though.

Connery - daylight - Craig - Moore - Dalton - Brosnan - Lazenby

Sounds like that Bond comparison is spot on then

Spoiler

right down to Legend/Anniversary/Underworld being the most overpraised iteration of her character

 

[Kinyou]

Who actually sees themselves "leading" Lara through the environment instead of controlling her? I don't see a difference between controlling Drake and controlling Lara.

 

[Lime]

Who actually sees themselves "leading" Lara through the environment instead of controlling her? I don't see a difference between controlling Drake and controlling Lara.

Right, that's the whole point. The way that the game is constructed in its designed characterization (i.e. its textual features with poor little vulnerable Lara) + its marketing message relies on this sexist assumption that male players would only be interested in the game if they are appealed to their inner-male protectiveness of feminity (in this case Lara).

 

[FATALITY]

Wasn't she an icon before the new games as well though?

nobody knows the new lara croft at all.

 

[lukeskymac]

Old Lara was more of a character and a better icon than Nu Lara. And I didn't even like Old Lara's design!

 

[Garlador]

Man, CD is really in love of the awful character they created. It's all they talk about.

Yeah, it's starting to remind me a tad too much of someone else...

It's never good to be so in love with your own creation that you can't step back and recognize the flaws.

Right, that's the whole point. The way that the game is constructed in its designed characterization (i.e. its textual features with poor little vulnerable Lara) + its marketing message relies on this sexist assumption that male players would only be interested in the game if they are appealed to their inner-male protectiveness of feminity (in this case Lara).

I've picked up on that.

We're human beings. We're capable of empathy.

When I play Metroid Prime, I don't want to "protect" Samus. I want to BE Samus.

When I played Tomb Raiders, I didn't want to "lead" Lara or protect her. I wanted to BE Lara, raiding tombs, solving puzzles, shooting dinosaurs.

Just because she was a woman didn't mean I couldn't wish to be as cool as the women I played as.

 

[Lime]

Yeah, it's starting to remind me a tad too much of someone else...

It's never good to be so in love with your own creation that you can't step back and recognize the flaws.

Crystal Dynamics' presentation at the Square Enix E3 conference was kind of creepy in how much focus they put on designing and animating the character. Maybe it's in the contract with SE that you have to talk incessantly and disturbingly about the female characters you have for your game. :lol

 

[Garlador]

Crystal Dynamics' presentation at the Square Enix E3 conference was kind of creepy in how much focus they put on designing and animating the character. Maybe it's in the contract with SE that you have to talk incessantly and disturbingly about the female characters you have for your game. :lol

Yeah... Won't lie, I'd love them to go into hour-long, passionate, loving detail about the beauty and relational appeal of this guy:

Tell us what program renders his hair! Serenade me with talk of how we'll want to "protect" him. Charm me with speeches of him overcoming his insecurities and self-doubt to find his inner strength.

 

[plagiarize]

Rise is a big improvement, and I think it does a good some ways to better resolve what Lara did with what Lara apparently felt. There is a conversation with a psychiatrist that tries to delve into how she felt about the killing, suggesting she enjoyed it, and Lara deflects. They haven't knocked it out of the park, but it's a step forwards for the character.

 

[sublimit]

Man, CD is really in love of the awful character they created. It's all they talk about.

It has been like that ever since Legend to be honest.And it shows where their priorities as a studio lie (character comes first gameplay comes second).

 

[Lime]

Rise is a big improvement, and I think it does a good some ways to better resolve what Lara did with what Lara apparently felt. There is a conversation with a psychiatrist that tries to delve into how she felt about the killing, suggesting she enjoyed it, and Lara deflects. They haven't knocked it out of the park, but it's a step forwards for the character.

Good to hear. The game looks to be more of the same that I didn't enjoy in the 2013 reboot (explosions, setpieces, shooting, and dumb writing) but I look forward to hear about the improved aspects once it releases on PC or PS4.

 

[The Lone Dragon]

Structural sexism can happen in many ways. It's not simply about having a female character that is made to one-dimensionally titillate the presumed male consumer. Sexist treatments of fictional characters can be so many things.

In this particular case, Lara Croft is depicted as vulnerable, hurt, exhausted, and fragile. characterization is sexist in that it's yet another harmful trope that conforms to the male power fantasy of protecting and possibly possessing the female character. The male player doesn't play as Lara, but protects her because she is depicted so vulnerable and fragile that she requires the male protection.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jun/13/tomb-raider-lara-croft-rape-attempt

Samantha “Kitten” McComb wrote on how Tomb Raider 2013 also conforms to the whole "woman has to go through torture to develop" principle:

It's an interesting theory which may have merit sometimes, but universally, probably does not. How can you distinguish between "tragic back story" and "appealing to male desires to protect women"? Maybe females can just never have the tragic back stories that many males do, for fear of appealing to this 'villainous' male desire?

I believe thinking like this leads to a VERY narrow range of female characters that can actually be designed without controversy, compared to male characters. And, that by itself is another form of sexism in my opinion. Just because something can appeal to SOME males in a way that SOME people may find questionable does not mean that the subject itself is invalid.

The design of a "female character who has suffered" should not be "off-limits", because SOME guys out there might start power tripping about protecting a woman.

I hope that's not the ultimate conclusion that this argument is trying to reach...

It makes me wonder about those games where a child is the main protagonist placed in dangerous situations (like the classic Heart of Darkness). Are those just appealing to a male desire to protect his children? Are they appealing to a female's desire to protect HER children? And, if so, is it wrong?

 

[Kinyou]

It's an interesting theory which may have merit sometimes, but universally, probably does not. How can you distinguish between "tragic back story" and "appealing to male desires to protect women"? Maybe female's can just never have the tragic back stories that many males do, for fear of appealing to this villainous male desire?

I believe thinking like this leads to a VERY narrow range of female characters that can actually be designed without controversy, compared to male characters. And, that by itself is another form of sexism in my opinion. Just because something can appeal to SOME males in a way that SOME people may find questionable does not mean that the subject itself is invalid.

The design of a "female character who has suffered" should not be "off-limits", because SOME guys out there might start power tripping about protecting a woman.

I hope that's not the ultimate conclusion that this argument is trying to reach...

I agree that it's not something I'd apply universally.
Some people are actually very much in favor of having female characters that show weaknesses

The best new Strong Female Characters are the weak ones:
https://thedissolve.com/features/exposition/846-the-best-new-strong-female-characters-are-the-weak/

The problem I see with Tomb Raider is that it approaches it from the wrong angle (bigger focus on protect than relate) and simply lacks in the overall execution of the character.

 

[Always-honest]

Polygon: from horny teenagers to socially aware pseudo journalists.

 

[Hedge]

I agree that it's not something I'd apply universally.
Some people are actually very much in favor of having female characters that show weaknesses

The best new Strong Female Characters are the weak ones:
https://thedissolve.com/features/exposition/846-the-best-new-strong-female-characters-are-the-weak/

The problem I see with Tomb Raider is that it approaches it from the wrong angle (bigger focus on protect than relate) and simply lacks in the overall execution of the character.

What a well-written article, and something that I absolutely agree with. It is a concept I'd wish was delved into a lot more in both genders in games.

I agree that the execution lacked in-game, but I think that the concept was a good one. There is a lot of real, honest strength to be shown if you can pull it off.
Which.. they struggled with.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

I like the new Lara. Better acting and better story.

I don't think they went for the sexy angle. I feel as if men see an attractive female and think, "MY GOD SHE'S SEXY" just because they find her model attractive. Heck, people did it for Chloe and Max in Life is Strange.

 

[Garlador]

It's an interesting theory which may have merit sometimes, but universally, probably does not. How can you distinguish between "tragic back story" and "appealing to male desires to protect women"? Maybe females can just never have the tragic back stories that many males do, for fear of appealing to this villainous male desire?

"They programmed her with the most tragic backstory of all time."

You can do a tragic backstory that doesn't disrespect a woman's capabilities or belittle her abilities.

 

[Manu]

I like the new Lara. Better acting and better story.

No.

 

[Trickshot]

New Lara's backstory kinda reminds me of CW's Green Arrow.

...except, instead of using her skills for fighting crime and angsting, she raids tombs and moans.

 

[Lime]

I hope that's not the ultimate conclusion that this argument is trying to reach...

No, it's not.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Crystal Dynamics' presentation at the Square Enix E3 conference was kind of creepy in how much focus they put on designing and animating the character. Maybe it's in the contract with SE that you have to talk incessantly and disturbingly about the female characters you have for your game. :lol

There's absolutely nothing creepy about being proud of how much work they put into the character model, it's like saying that ND or Ninja Theory are creepy for the exact same thing. You're completely misinterpreting the mindset of the people who actually work on the model, the textures, the animation, etc. when they talk about the end result and the process that got them there.

Polygon: from horny teenagers to socially aware pseudo journalists.

Why are so many driveby posts allowed?

 

[BadAss2961]

I like the new Lara. Better acting and better story.

I don't think they went for the sexy angle. I feel as if men see an attractive female and think, "MY GOD SHE'S SEXY" just because they find her model attractive. Heck, people did it for Chloe and Max in Life is Strange.

That and the constant panting and moaning at every twist and turn will do it.

OG Lara was a strong adventurer with a love for the thrill that didn't afraid of anything. In the 2013 reboot, new Lara came off like a scared teen in a horror movie.

 

[Ophiuchus]

Polygon, polygon never changes.
I totally disagree with the article.Core Design was amazing but Eidos was one horny company that wanted more out of them.I am even one of the people who actually loved their final installment - Angel of Darkness.
Anyway, the era has changed.Now most players want dumbed down games.

 

[Garlador]

That and the constant panting and moaning at every twist and turn will do it.

OG Lara was a strong adventurer with a love for the thrill that didn't afraid of anything. In the 2013 reboot, new Lara came off like a scared teen in a horror movie.

I could be wrong, but I think that was actually their original intent.

Like, someone on the team really wanted to make a survival horror game after watching a few movies and they retrofitted it into a Tomb Raider reboot.

 

[Manu]

I could be wrong, but I think that was actually their original intent.

Like, someone on the team really wanted to make a survival horror game after watching a few movies and they retrofitted it into a Tomb Raider reboot.

Ah, yeah, the point in the game when I actually shouted "why don't you just shoot her?" at the screen.

I was so close to putting it down at that point.

 

[Kinyou]

I could be wrong, but I think that was actually their original intent.

Like, someone on the team really wanted to make a survival horror game after watching a few movies and they retrofitted it into a Tomb Raider reboot.

I always had the feeling that there was initially an attempt to make a horror game but that only a few aspects of it survived. Like the gruesome death scenes are kind of a hallmark of a survival horror game

 

[MartyStu]

Everything good about the new Tomb Raider games begin and end with the redesign.

 

[RK128]

I could be wrong, but I think that was actually their original intent.

Like, someone on the team really wanted to make a survival horror game after watching a few movies and they retrofitted it into a Tomb Raider reboot.

That would make all the death scenes have a lot more context; they are a left-over from the games horror origins before turning it into Uncharted-style gameplay.

The original vision of the game did have more horror elements and Lara mirrored her original design as well. You also rode on a horse and it had a more Metroid-style progression system. Here is a link to the games origins; YouTube Video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR2DDLyAQ4E

Article: http://tombraider.boards.net/thread/265/tomb-raider-ascension-reboot-prototype; sadly all the pictures in the article are gone for some reason.

 

[Lime]

Ah, yeah, the point in the game when I actually shouted "why don't you just shoot her?" at the screen.

I was so close to putting it down at that point.

Like RK128 mentioned above:

App: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/the-final-hours-of-tomb-raider/id607740958?mt=8

http://kotaku.com/5988503/the-tomb-...-to-be-a-lot-more-like-shadow-of-the-colossus

"In early design meetings he steam started thinking about other games that could inspire a new approach," Keighley writes. "The emotionally rich role-playing game Ico, the survival horror of Resident Evil, and the towering mythical creatures of Shadows [sic] of the Colossus all served as early inspiration."

In the app, Keighley shows off a bounty of sketches and video prototypes of these earlier reboot concepts (We're showing just three glimpses of that material in this article). You can see Lara, on horseback, flee a giant. You can see her leaping a chasm with a child on her back, a child that was going to be an emotionally-sympathetic helper. This two-character design was a callback to the sweet co-operative duo of Yorda and Ico in the game bearing the latter's name. Lara's child helper was later pitched as a monkey but then scrapped.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=519078

Thank god we got scripted murder simulator with dumb stereotypes and explosions galore instead of this

 

[RK128]

Like RK128 mentioned above:



http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=519078

Thank god we got scripted murder simulator with racial stereotypes and explosions galore instead of this

Would have much preferred this take on the TR series then what we got with the released reboot; it having a REASON to be so much darker, a Lara that mirrored her original look, mechanics from some of the best games on the market and a genre (horror) that complements the gameplay/design styling of past titles (as horror complements exploration really well).

Oh well, focus testing and 'assumptions' of the market place change yet another great idea (Ex: lets change our colorful looking shooter into a Gears clone due to thinking that's what the kids like, right ? - Overstrike being morphed into Fuze)

 

[ghibli99]

Count me in as one of those players who thinks the reboot and its sequel are better than anything that has come before. I find the original to be damn-near unplayable now, and thought it was an overhyped slog back when it was new too. Rise has been amazing so far, and I'm only 11% in.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Yeah, it's starting to remind me a tad too much of someone else...

It's never good to be so in love with your own creation that you can't step back and recognize the flaws.


I've picked up on that.

We're human beings. We're capable of empathy.

When I play Metroid Prime, I don't want to "protect" Samus. I want to BE Samus.

When I played Tomb Raiders, I didn't want to "lead" Lara or protect her. I wanted to BE Lara, raiding tombs, solving puzzles, shooting dinosaurs.

Just because she was a woman didn't mean I couldn't wish to be as cool as the women I played as.

The problem is how both games project the leading females, TR 2013 has constantly putting Lara under a heavy phisical burden and constantly moaning, and given her brutal deaths when you, as a player, fail. It tries to remind the player the fatal consequences of his failures and also, it raises a protective empathy with Lara, "she's suffering, so I'll play better for her".

Samus is mostly a silent character, that you can fully control, she dosn't moan, she is not constantly on a state of suffering trying to make the player feel pity. She's a badass hunter, and she's as badass as you can be.

(Let's forget about Metroid Other M, that game didn't existed)

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

I dunno, new Lara isn't a whole lot removed from someone with a monkey on their back

 

[Kinyou]

There's absolutely nothing creepy about being proud of how much work they put into the character model, it's like saying that ND or Ninja Theory are creepy for the exact same thing. You're completely misinterpreting the mindset of the people who actually work on the model, the textures, the animation, etc. when they talk about the end result and the process that got them there.

It feels a little like people only react that way because Lara is a female character.
At least have I never heard anyone describe it as creepy that ND now animates Drake's chest hair

 

[Subpar Spatula]

That and the constant panting and moaning at every twist and turn will do it.

OG Lara was a strong adventurer with a love for the thrill that didn't afraid of anything. In the 2013 reboot, new Lara came off like a scared teen in a horror movie.

Panting and "moaning"? Is she actually moaning or are people misconstruing the sounds? Sounds like the latter. These aren't what making her sexy to people. What makes her sexy to people is 2 things (1) she has an attractive model (slim, boobs, nice face) and (2) they're seeing her as sexy because that's all they can think to frame someone as when they find them attractive.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

I think fundamentally my problem with TR2013 boiled down to so many small elements conspiring to ruin both a character and a kind of game I loved. I never would have gotten so upset over a game I didn't want so bad for it to turn out well.

Lara is characterized in the reboot as a victim. She was always anything but in the original games. New Lara is a character who didn't want to be somewhere who we followed through torture. In the old games, she was a character who was exactly where she needed to be, somewhere she found using her wits and her resources. These factors drastically color the fact that both kinds of games are about a character enduring trials.

Old Lara was an empowered sex symbol. That she was constructed in a pandering way is hard to argue against. This wasn't what defined the character, even if it was a convenient way to get adolescent males interested in your game. New Lara is repurposed as a kind of everyman, a functionally gender neutral ultraviolent protagonist infused with the carefully and tellingly selected characteristics of a young fit woman's body shape, crying and moaning under duress, and not really wanting to hurt anyone.

Both of these are composites built from pop culture tropes. You could likely argue successfully that either is the healthier or more feminist approach, or that both are cheap and exploitative.

The real collapse in the characterization though for me happens in the context of the games themselves.

Old Lara was Indiana Jones in hot pants with tits. She inhabited a game that felt right for that kind of character. The game itself made the character more believable, more relevant. By the end of the game, you felt inside this character's head. Her success was your success.

New Lara is Rambo with schizophrenia and tits. She inhabited a game that felt built before she even showed up. She felt out of place, a round peg forced into a square hole, not because of her gender, but because the game proceeds to be in complete conflict to how the character is fleshed out in between the parts where the player is in control. You never know this character, she's an attractive distraction in the middle of a game that keeps pretending she's not there, except when the game realizes it's lost the plot and has to take control out of your hands to explain to you who she is, why you should care, and that she's not actually the same character you're obviously playing.

New Lara could maybe be fine, could maybe be just as interesting as old Lara, even if in a completely new way. Someone just call me when they make a game where I can actually get to know her.

 

[Lime]

Great post, Fine Ham Abounds. Could we paste it into whenever the next Old vs New Lara discussion shows up again once more? Seems like a good distinction between the two.

There's absolutely nothing creepy about being proud of how much work they put into the character model, it's like saying that ND or Ninja Theory are creepy for the exact same thing. You're completely misinterpreting the mindset of the people who actually work on the model, the textures, the animation, etc. when they talk about the end result and the process that got them there.

Context matters. This was part of their E3 conference presentation and it is presented much more as a marketing tool to entice fans/watchers to buy the product. You can tell how they use very superlative words, juxtapose the visuals with developer statements about how "amazing" everything is, and how "real" this game is.

In Uncharted 4's case it's a much more developer-oriented and technical presentation talking about shaders and translating concept art into 3D graphics.

The E3 presentation of Tomb Raider is much more of a commercial that sells the western comparison to Hatsune Miku ("she's super real this time!"), in my interpretation. Yeah, I think it's a bit weird having it as a marketing point that the looks of her is so real.

It feels a little like people only react that way because Lara is a female character.
At least have I never heard anyone describe it as creepy that ND now animates Drake's chest hair

If ND used Drake's chest hair and sweaty chest as a marketing point in selling the game with a well-edited commercial (and if male characters were judged by their /attractiveness looks in video games in general) then yes, that would be a bit creepy.

 

[QuantumZebra]

If one is seeing '13 Lara as the female Nathan, then yes, I completely understand why it would be a grating experience.
I think the opposite is true for me, maybe. I have always found stylized portrayals of people dull and I crave actual feelings and human portrayals. That is why I truly hope that we will see a lot more of male versions of '13 Lara so we can have non-idealized men, and more female Uncharted characters to push the balance.
I think in general, though, it would be nice to have protags show remorse when taking lethal action when they never have before. I know I, personally, would probably pass out from terror.

This is a great post

 

[Kinyou]

If ND used Drake's chest hair and sweaty chest as a marketing point in selling the game with a well-edited commercial (and if male characters were judged by their /attractiveness looks in video games in general) then yes, that would be a bit creepy.

I'd argue it very much is a marketing point because the Panel wasn't for developers but for fans who attended the Playstation experience. The news about how life like Drake looks was also subsequently picked up by a bunch of sites. It's just a live version of a dev diary.