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Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Campaign live on Fig

Naito

Member
We haven't had an official update in awhile so I threw together some of the more unofficial information from that time period that Josh tends to put out on Twitter, Instagram, Tumblr and the SA forums. Sorry for the crappy formatting, I'm bad at this kinda stuff.

Much appreciated Anno. Formatting is fine.

As a follow up to finding ways to kill time until Pillars 2, With Divinity 2, anyone know of any plans for Gaf multiplayer groups?

AFAIK there aren't any "official plans" for GAF multiplayer groups for D:OS 2.
Mind you, we don't have a release date yet.

But It is safe to assume that the recent Game Master mode unveil raised a lot of interest
in the release of D:OS 2, and I expect a dedicated thread as soon things are more clear.
I guess we could coordinate these initiatives in the EA thread once we have a timeplan.
 

Anno

Member
Y'all should actually just replay Pillars and the WM so that the thread is revived and we can have fun discussion ;) Though honestly if you haven't played 3.0+ and the expansion it is more than worth a replay.
 

ilium

Member
I played PoE for the first time a couple weeks ago and enjoyed my time with it quite a bit!

Started with Rogue, but was rather disappointed so I restarted as Druid and had a blast.
I left off playing around the time I arrived at the Elven settlement, but then just kinda stopped because I had only bought the base game and not being able to play the expansion bothered me a lot because I didn't expect to enjoy it as much as I did.. so now I'm waiting for the expansions to go on sale

It doesn't reach the excellence and depth of BG2, but it's still super enjoyable and ticked many of the right boxes for me.

Consider me hyped for the next game.
 

Hitmeneer

Member
Just a question, is anyone else investing in PoE2? I subscribed to invest and last week Friday I got the email to agree and finalise the investment.

After that I had to wire transfer the money for the investment, but for the transaction my European bank also asked for the beneficiaries address, which Fig did not provide. As a result I am not able to transfer the money. I opened a ticket on the help.fig.co website about my problem, but after three days I still haven't received a response... Anyone else experience with transferring money to fig from an European bank?
 

Anno

Member
Just a question, is anyone else investing in PoE2? I subscribed to invest and last week Friday I got the email to agree and finalise the investment.

After that I had to wire transfer the money for the investment, but for the transaction my European bank also asked for the beneficiaries address, which Fig did not provide. As a result I am not able to transfer the money. I opened a ticket on the help.fig.co website about my problem, but after three days I still haven't received a response... Anyone else experience with transferring money to fig from an European bank?

Someone in the monthly Steam thread completed an investment. I can't remember who off the top of my head but you can skip back in the thread to mid last week and probably find it easily enough.
 

Naito

Member
And we are finally back with a new Update: #33 Some Quick Reminders.
Not much going on as you can already understand from the title,
but we do get an ingame view of the new companion in Deadfire,
Maia Rua, Aumaua Ranger and elder sister of Kana Rua.
 

Hitmeneer

Member
Someone in the monthly Steam thread completed an investment. I can't remember who off the top of my head but you can skip back in the thread to mid last week and probably find it easily enough.

Late response, but thank you for your answer. In the end the Fig helpdesk contacted me and provided the extra information required, so I could make the wire transfer. The payment is now pending and should be accepted in a few days.
 

Lister

Banned
Late response, but thank you for your answer. In the end the Fig helpdesk contacted me and provided the extra information required, so I could make the wire transfer. The payment is now pending and should be accepted in a few days.

I hope you investor guys keep in touch with the GAF coomunity and tells us how it ends up going. Sounds super interesting. Good luck to you and the game!
 

Anno

Member
I went ahead and purchased 2 shares of the Fig as well. With stuff like Prey and Dishonored having an uncertain future I figured I should do what I can to support the other niche genre I love. Even if FIG somehow dies next week and I get no money back I'll be okay so I figured it was an okay amount to risk.
 

Anno

Member
Joshua Eric Sawyer said:
Balance in Single-Player CRPGs

Someone on twitter asked me this question and I think it’s worth answering in a longer form than twitter allows. I’ve already answered this question in brief and in video form at various points, but I think it’s important to address here:

Something that bothered me from PoE was the constant updating to classes and races to balance them. Did you guys worry about this>
In Baldur’s Gate I or II or even the Icewind Dale series? I mean really who cares if one class is OP or Race or Hybrid class? >>
You guys are making a single-player RPG not an MMO or game with a online multiplayer component.

Variants of this question are common in single-player CRPG circles. The implication is that balance is important in an MMO/multiplayer environment but it is not important (or so much less important that it doesn’t merit addressing in patches) in a single-player CRPG.

I would like to repudiate this in two general ways: 1) I will argue that overall balance is important and valuable for players in single-player CRPGs 2) I will argue that individual CRPG players and CRPG communities overall do not present consistent objections to tuning and this undermines the general complaint. It is not the responsibility of individuals or communities to be consistent in their feedback, but it is the job of the designer to design, which means considering the needs of the audience by listening to and interpreting feedback on a broader scale.

Yes, Balance is Important in Single-Player CRPGs

I think it’s easy enough to make the first point through reductio ad absurdum: why not give AD&D fighters 1d4 hit points per level, a worse THAC0 than wizards, and worse saving throws than any other class? Obviously it’s because playing them would feel terrible. Why don’t we give all of the enemies attacks that do 1-3 damage, a quarter of the hit points of the PCs, and rock-bottom defenses? Because playing through that would feel boring for anyone who had the slightest interest in combat content and systems.

Some may say, “Hey, no one is arguing that balance isn’t important at all,” but in fact that is what many people directly say or suggest. Maybe they don’t really mean it (which I will get to later), but that is often what comes up. If we can agree that some degree of balance is important, then there’s no point in suggesting anything to the contrary and we’re really just debating to what degree is balance important and worth a) design consideration pre-launch and b) patching.

In my view, balance in a single-player CRPG is important to the extent that it allows players making different character and gear choices to be viable through the content of the game. It is always important to remember that system design (including class, race, ability/spell, and item design) is one part of the equation. Content makes up the other big part (setting aside UI/UX for purposes of this discussion).
When our area and system designers build encounters, they have to be built around an understanding of party capabilities: their overall statistics, their available gear, their consumable items, and their various abilities. In a traditional D&D-style CRPG, this spectrum of possibility gets wider and wider the higher the levels get and the more gear becomes available to the player. The less balanced individual choices are from level to level and item to item, the more difficult it is for area designers to design content that works for a spectrum of choices.

It Was Actually a Problem in the Infinity Engine Games

One of the questions was, “Did you guys worry about this in… even the Icewind Dale series?” Well, no. I certainly didn’t worry about it in the original Icewind Dale. I assumed everyone who picked up the game was as conversant as me in AD&D 2nd Ed/Forgotten Realms rules and lore, had played hundreds of hours of it in tabletop with similarly aggressive psychogamers, and had weathered fair but diabolically brutal DMs whose scenarios demanded quick thinking and ruthless min-maxing tactics.

You might not believe the number of Black Isle QA testers (and developers) who yelled or cried in anger, virtually or in person, about how difficult some of the IWD scenarios were. One in particular was the Idol/priest fight in Lower Dorn’s Deep. I had a tester hootin’ and hollerin’ about how it was “impossible”, how he had tried to beat it for two hours and couldn’t make any progress. It was a scenario that I and my office mate (Kihan Pak) both beat on the first try.

On Heart of Winter, Burial Isle practically split QA in half. One half thought it was a cakewalk. The others acted like they were being forced to dive into a swimming pool full of razor blades.

The dividing factor was system mastery. AD&D 2nd Edition (and 3E) are systems with a boatload of trap choices, inherently bad builds, garbage spells/feats, and generally inferior options. They’re not presented as inferior options to the player. They’re presented as options… that turn out to be implicitly awful even in the best circumstances. To the next part of the question, “I mean really who cares if one class is OP or Race or Hybrid class?” The answer is, “The person being brutalized by content designed for the OP classes/races because they picked the ‘bad’ option.”
The broader that spectrum of choices is for players, the more difficult it is to design content that will be at a similar level of challenge for those players given any given combination of choices within that spectrum. And to restate what I wrote before, the balance is mostly important to the extent that viability, i.e., the ability to get through the content, is supported. BG, BG2, IWD, and IWD2 often failed that test. Once viability is addressed, I’m not particularly concerned about balance.

Tuning Down High-Powered Outliers

The exceptions are abilities and items that are so incredibly powerful across the board that it’s almost impossible to make any content challenging with them in play. If we design content to be challenging with those abilities/items in mind, any players who lack those abilities and items will effectively be crit path blocked. Their game has either ended or become so incredibly difficult that it’s no longer enjoyable. And if we don’t design content with the overpowered abilities and items in mind, any player who coincidentally or intentionally uses those items effectively no longer has any challenge going through the game. It becomes an unlabeled Easy difficulty slider rendering all other options/choices irrelevant.
In those cases, I advocate reducing the power of the abilities/items so players don’t trip over “Hey I guess I win” options and our testers can still use them in playthroughs and give meaningful feedback. There is one salient example I can think of: sniper rifles in Fallout: New Vegas. In Fallout 3, Bethesda had given sniper rifles a x5 crit rate modifier. Keep in mind that any attack from stealth (e.g. shooting an unaware target with a sniper rifle from long range) is automatically a crit. The x5 multiplier made even standard/close range combat shots have an incredibly high chance of critting. I didn’t notice that sniper rifles had that multiplier and it didn’t come up in testing prior to release. In release, players noticed it quickly and sniper rifles became the de facto way to handle most encounters. Why use a 12.7mm SMG or hunting pistol when any shot from a sniper rifle was likely to crit and do 90+ damage?

In one of the first patches, I reduced the crit rate multiplier to x2. There was initially a lot of complaining about it, as there always is when anything is tuned down, no matter how overpowered, but the sniper rifle retained its role and continues to be used in that role. It’s a sniper rifle. It’s good at sniping. It doesn’t need to be great at close range.

Inconsistent Player Feedback

There is one trend about player feedback regarding tuning that’s hard to argue against: communities generally complain about tuning anything down but applaud (or at least do not complain about) tuning things up. I can tune up 10 things in a patch and detune one thing and will hear far more feedback about the one thing that was detuned, no matter how marginal or necessary that detuning was. If there’s negative feedback about tuning something up, it’s usually because players feel it needs to be tuned up more.

In Patch 3.03 for Pillars of Eternity, Matt Sheets and I tuned up seven rogue abilities, five barbarian abilities, and a variety of other spells and abilities. Players generally seemed to like this, though some wished the rogue abilities had been tuned up more.
In Patch 3.04, the soulbound dagger The Unlabored Blade had a bug fixed where its 10% Firebug proc was never firing. Two weeks later, Patch 3.05 reduced the 10% proc to 3%. This was a change I had requested for 3.04 but it had been overlooked. I requested the change because daggers have a fast attack rate and that dagger has a +20% attack rate enchantment.

Which set of changes do you think I heard more feedback about? If you guessed the marginal drop in proc rate on the soulbound item that had only worked properly for two weeks, you’d be right. The rogue and barbarian changes affect far more players and more significantly, but “loss” (even if imagined for most players) weighs more heavily.
Despite having a reputation for only detuning, I tuned many more abilities and items up in PoE patches (and in F:NV patches, as well as the JSawyer mod) than down. Players remember the losses more than the gains, but both are a necessary part of the tuning process.

I could abstain from tuning, but I don’t think most players would benefit from that. Players remember early Diablo 3 tuning as particularly bad, but the game at launch (especially the economy and itemization) was poorly balanced, as Travis Day elaborated on in his 2017 GDC talk. In the long term, Diablo 3′s economy and itemization today are much better than they were at launch and I believe most players benefit from and appreciate that. Even if you effectively never played D3 as a multiplayer game, you still benefit from that.

I don’t expect players or communities to be consistent in their feedback, but as the director and, in many cases, the lone system designer, I have to make decisions on more than just the volume of feedback on any particular topic. Changes that make bad options better are almost universally good. Changes that make overpowered options worse are often still a good idea if I believe more players will benefit from the change. I didn’t hesitate to reduce the Petrified damage bonus from x4 to x2 in Pillars of Eternity because that affliction was far and away the best way to deal with difficult encounters, either through the Gaze of the Adragan spell or trap.

I Will Tune Again

Just to make this clear, while there will always be a point where I stop tuning a particular game, I’m never going to stop using patches as an opportunity to balance items, abilities, classes, encounters, enemies, etc. I’ve been house-ruling and tuning games since I noticed trap options and OP garbage in 2nd Edition AD&D in middle school. I re-wrote 5th Edition Ars Magica’s certamen system because it’s a cool idea that’s really uninteresting in play. I re-wrote Pathfinder/3.X’s armor system because, as many players have noted, it doesn’t actually provide many interesting options.

If I think players will benefit from adjusting the rules or the content and there’s an opportunity to make those changes, I’m going to do it. I certainly don’t expect players to like all of the changes I make, but if you object to the idea of post-launch balancing, you should probably never play any of the games I direct. I’m always going to tune them, if possible.

Thanks for reading

Some morning reading from Sawyer expounding on his #balance philosophy. The thread over on the Codex will be fun reading in a couple hours I'm sure.
 

Anno

Member
Man, good stuff. Linky to thread? Would like to read followups.

Fewer than I would've thought. I'm still never sure what exactly people mean when they complain about this in regards to Pillars specifically. There are plenty of broken overpowered builds. The only example I kinda get is people being disappointed that Wizards aren't the objectively best class in the game like in BG.
 

Durante

Member
The only example I kinda get is people being disappointed that Wizards aren't the objectively best class in the game like in BG.
You bet!

Anyway, I already knew that Sawyer's priorities are very different from my own, even before reading that sermon.


AD&D 2nd Edition (and 3E) are systems with a boatload of trap choices, inherently bad builds, garbage spells/feats, and generally inferior options
The thing is, inferior options make your choice meaningful. Of course, options that are inferior all the time and in all circumstances are worth reconsidering, but making all options exactly equally valuable does not, in my opinion, improve a game.

Anyway, I'm looking more towards Divinity OS II for theorycrafting and build discovery fun.
Though even Larian patched >100% resistances in OS1, but only after we made good use of them. Now that was entertainment.
 

Lister

Banned
The thing is, inferior options make your choice meaningful. Of course, options that are inferior all the time and in all circumstances are worth reconsidering, but making all options exactly equally valuable does not, in my opinion, improve a game.
.

I don't think it necessarily harms the game either though. And more importantly, I think it achieves something good: eases new players into the game, and does so with very little "damage" to the gameplay of veterans.

I rememebr playign 2nd Edition D&D back in the day and shepearding new players in, and it was plainly obvious how easy it was for them to build a terrible character, if not for the guidance of a geeky teenager with entirely too much time sunk into those rule books (yours truly).

I do think that if not done properly you tend to end up with a short list of bland choices, however.
 

Anno

Member
The thing is, inferior options make your choice meaningful. Of course, options that are inferior all the time and in all circumstances are worth reconsidering, but making all options exactly equally valuable does not, in my opinion, improve a game.

Anyway, I'm looking more towards Divinity OS II for theorycrafting and build discovery fun.
Though even Larian patched >100% resistances in OS1, but only after we made good use of them. Now that was entertainment.

I mean there are still plenty of inferior choices to be made. Rogues are almost objectively the worst class in the game and they've been so for a long time now. But they're still a viable choice if you just want to be a character who's a rogue. As he said, so long as something is viable then he doesn't care so much about the rest. So I don't think it's about everything being equal, just viable.
 
I think what I hated most about PoE was definitely its combat. The story seemed interesting enough and the characters had decent exposition and story behind them.

But the combat, I just hated it I literally put the game down after about 8-10 hours of play. 1st attempt was with a rogue. I picked it back up maybe 30-45 days later thinking I was too harsh and went with a mage this time but again found combat just an absolute chore.

1) Characters get stuck on each other for no apparent reason and bugged out. I'm not one that likes to continuously pause encounters (once-twice is ok) so this really grated on me after a while.

2) I did not enjoy spells and how they worked. From casting times, to damage, to how they played a role in the lore. Everything about casters just felt off.

3) I think what might have killed my enjoyment the most was trying to make sense of the combat mechanics and make sure I was properly prepped for every encounter though.

I know the game has had expansions and maybe after all the balancing and bug fixes it's gotten better but I feel like if I booted it up again I would still see the same thing. Maybe theres a guide out there with a fun, relaxed build that I could try. Maybe something simple like a fighter and let the AI help out with encounters.
 

Lister

Banned
I think what I hated most about PoE was definitely its combat. The story seemed interesting enough and the characters had decent exposition and story behind them.

But the combat, I just hated it I literally put the game down after about 8-10 hours of play. 1st attempt was with a rogue. I picked it back up maybe 30-45 days later thinking I was too harsh and went with a mage this time but again found combat just an absolute chore.

1) Characters get stuck on each other for no apparent reason and bugged out. I'm not one that likes to continuously pause encounters (once-twice is ok) so this really grated on me after a while.

2) I did not enjoy spells and how they worked. From casting times, to damage, to how they played a role in the lore. Everything about casters just felt off.

3) I think what might have killed my enjoyment the most was trying to make sense of the combat mechanics and make sure I was properly prepped for every encounter though.

I know the game has had expansions and maybe after all the balancing and bug fixes it's gotten better but I feel like if I booted it up again I would still see the same thing. Maybe theres a guide out there with a fun, relaxed build that I could try. Maybe something simple like a fighter and let the AI help out with encounters.

It just sounds like you just don't want any combat, if what you're looking for is chill and automatic. Why not just play in story mode?
 

Anno

Member
I think what I hated most about PoE was definitely its combat. The story seemed interesting enough and the characters had decent exposition and story behind them.

But the combat, I just hated it I literally put the game down after about 8-10 hours of play. 1st attempt was with a rogue. I picked it back up maybe 30-45 days later thinking I was too harsh and went with a mage this time but again found combat just an absolute chore.

1) Characters get stuck on each other for no apparent reason and bugged out. I'm not one that likes to continuously pause encounters (once-twice is ok) so this really grated on me after a while.

2) I did not enjoy spells and how they worked. From casting times, to damage, to how they played a role in the lore. Everything about casters just felt off.

3) I think what might have killed my enjoyment the most was trying to make sense of the combat mechanics and make sure I was properly prepped for every encounter though.

I know the game has had expansions and maybe after all the balancing and bug fixes it's gotten better but I feel like if I booted it up again I would still see the same thing. Maybe theres a guide out there with a fun, relaxed build that I could try. Maybe something simple like a fighter and let the AI help out with encounters.

If you tried it back towards launch it might be worth another shot. Proper AI has been implemented for yourself and companions so you can set it on normal difficulty and control maybe just the one character you create while letting the AI handle the rest. It should be fine for all but a couple fights. They also went through and thinned out some of the trashier encounters so there's just less combat in general.

That said the combat style is what it is. If you just don't like party based RTwP combat I don't think anything will change that aside from maybe just forcing yourself to learn the mechanics.
 
1) Characters get stuck on each other for no apparent reason and bugged out. I'm not one that likes to continuously pause encounters (once-twice is ok) so this really grated on me after a while.

Pathfinding is the bane of many a real-time combat system, and PoE's is no exception. But just to be sure: you were minding the engagement mechanic, right? Because PoE combatants do get "stuck" when one engages the other in melee, and that's an intentional part of the system that, after some significant patching, worked out okay.

3) I think what might have killed my enjoyment the most was trying to make sense of the combat mechanics and make sure I was properly prepped for every encounter though.

RTwP systems face an enormous challenge in effectively communicating to the player what's going on under the hood. Even PoE, which has (in my opinion) a good and intuitive UI, doesn't do much more than allow you to pause, click on the combat log, click on individual items, and then study them to see what actually happened when your ranger shot at the oncoming bear. This is a little cumbersome to do for one character in one battle. It's too tedious for most players to consider for the whole party whenever you're introducing new spells/effects or enemies to the mix.

POE2 is improving the player's ability to view this information (adding some character-specific filters). We'll see how it goes.

I know the game has had expansions and maybe after all the balancing and bug fixes it's gotten better but I feel like if I booted it up again I would still see the same thing. Maybe theres a guide out there with a fun, relaxed build that I could try. Maybe something simple like a fighter and let the AI help out with encounters.

You might consider story mode. It's pretty much built for people who want to experience the story and the world but prefer a relaxed combat experience.
 
It just sounds like you just don't want any combat, if what you're looking for is chill and automatic. Why not just play in story mode?

Yeah I may just do that as we get closer to PoE2 and if the expansion goes on sale.

Pathfinding is the bane of many a real-time combat system, and PoE's is no exception. But just to be sure: you were minding the engagement mechanic, right? Because PoE combatants do get "stuck" when one engages the other in melee, and that's an intentional part of the system that, after some significant patching, worked out okay.

Yeah I didn't mean allies vs enemies getting stuck in engagement, I meant literally allies would get stuck on allies and not execute commands after I place orders and un-pause the game, and ditto with enemy fighters.

Again, I haven't played since 30 or so days after the game first came out. Sounds like theres been a few QoL improvements.
 

Eusis

Member
I mean there are still plenty of inferior choices to be made. Rogues are almost objectively the worst class in the game and they've been so for a long time now. But they're still a viable choice if you just want to be a character who's a rogue. As he said, so long as something is viable then he doesn't care so much about the rest. So I don't think it's about everything being equal, just viable.
I think that's definitely good game design in 99% of cases (exceptions should probably be where there is no long term commitment, I.E. poorly optimizing in an Advance Wars stage as that will just be wiped clean for the next stage anyway.) Allow stupid overpowered builds, the fun in that should be you steam roll everything, but sub optimal builds should still be able to beat the game even if it takes lowering the difficulty setting for REALLY bad builds.
 

The Wart

Member
The thing is, inferior options make your choice meaningful. Of course, options that are inferior all the time and in all circumstances are worth reconsidering, but making all options exactly equally valuable does not, in my opinion, improve a game.

But a choice where only one option is, or some small subset of options are, unambiguously correct is not particularly meaningful, unless the point of the game is to theorycraft your way towards those options. In D&D-like systems, that often amounts to spending a tremendous amount of time invested in trial-and-error learning, or just looking up the right builds on a wiki. Like in BG2, wizards with particular hard-counter spells are an absolute requirement and the game never does anything to teach this (and also the abysmal UI makes figuring out what is going pretty difficult). In order to progress you just have to know, generally by looking it up, that you need those spells. I don't consider "look up solution on wiki or in manual" to be very engaging gameplay! Similarly, it's not super fun to be accidentally stumbling onto "win buttons" that trivialize the game.

One of the central design goals in PoE has always been to enable roleplaying and self-expression (or character-expression) through choice of combat builds. So I think PoE succeeds in that there are diverse set of viable builds, the game does a decent job of giving you the information you need to find those builds, and it's not easy to permanently lock yourself out of those builds.

I also think there is quite a bit of room for theorycrafting in PoE, even though that is not a primary design goal, and AFAIK people can make totally broken party setups. They just don't do it accidentally.
 

Anno

Member
Update 34 is out. It's mostly a recap of stuff Josh has been posting around various social media channels over the last month with some additional explanation. Sounds like there will be some more coming from E3, though.

Also if you backed at a level that received some kind of in game reward you will have a survey available to fill out on the backer portal.

Speaking of which, I'm going to be prototyping some lore/mechanics for the item I'm going to submit, so if anyone wants to volunteer to look at a couple of my ideas and tell me if they awful or not I'd appreciate it!
 

Naito

Member
And Update #34 is out! This time we also have a YT video showcasing some
of the magic vfx that were teased on Instagram.

Team is ramping up for E3 and we will have a new epic video just after the best time of year.

EDIT: god dammit Anno :D but as long I am first over at the D:OS 2 thread, it is all fine.
 
Update 34 is out. It's mostly a recap of stuff Josh has been posting around various social media channels over the last month with some additional explanation. Sounds like there will be some more coming from E3, though.

Also if you backed at a level that received some kind of in game reward you will have a survey available to fill out on the backer portal.

Speaking of which, I'm going to be prototyping some lore/mechanics for the item I'm going to submit, so if anyone wants to volunteer to look at a couple of my ideas and tell me if they awful or not I'd appreciate it!

Just watched the video and the combat log updates (as well as the holding a touch spell bit and being able to re-position a spell) look really good. This game is shaping up nicely thus far. Hopefully they'll show more of the capital city soon too.

Not just that but as someone new to backing a crowdfunding project I really like that they're giving updates every 1 or 2 weeks so it feels like it's not been too far along since you hear from them - even if the update is something small. I've noticed for some other game kickstarters that it can be a month or two which isn't all that often. I'd definitely back something by them again.

Silly question though - is there any sort of deadline on when we will no longer be able to change our addons? I backed the base game but haven't transitioned over to the backerkit portal since I'm not sure if I want to get the expansions now or after release.
 

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
Nice little update. Some great QoL features. Game is looking so amazing too, much cleaner and crisper than PoE. The Spell effects are just gorgeous.
 

JPS Kai

Member
Looks like the presentation for PoE II is hands-off at E3, but it might be a good chance to get some questions in if there's anything you folks want to know about. Just PM me and I'll see about asking them during my brief interview.
 

Anno

Member
Not just that but as someone new to backing a crowdfunding project I really like that they're giving updates every 1 or 2 weeks so it feels like it's not been too far along since you hear from them - even if the update is something small. I've noticed for some other game kickstarters that it can be a month or two which isn't all that often. I'd definitely back something by them again.

Obsidian is one of the few companies (Larian, Harebrained) that I will back immediately. They're just the best at it.

Also, it was kinda the subject of the video, but follow Josh on Twitter and/or instagram/tumblr and you'll see stuff about the project almost daily.

Silly question though - is there any sort of deadline on when we will no longer be able to change our addons? I backed the base game but haven't transitioned over to the backerkit portal since I'm not sure if I want to get the expansions now or after release.

There will probably be a deadline of some sort as they have to work out physical items. You need to do it either way, though, and it can be edited at any time, so hop in whenever you can and confirm your pledge.
 
You bet!

Anyway, I already knew that Sawyer's priorities are very different from my own, even before reading that sermon.


The thing is, inferior options make your choice meaningful. Of course, options that are inferior all the time and in all circumstances are worth reconsidering, but making all options exactly equally valuable does not, in my opinion, improve a game.

I don't know if you play Magic The Gathering, but there's a lot of objectively terrible cards and trap cards made every expansions alongside the viable ones. It is done by design for what I suspect to be the same reasons you're outlining here, just that it's cards instead of feats and whatnot. There is fun in analyzing the system you are presented with (a card game expansion set, the available feats for a character class in DnD, etc) and figuring which parts are good and which are bad and I think that's what Magic is trying to encourage.
 

MartyStu

Member
I don't know if you play Magic The Gathering, but there's a lot of objectively terrible cards and trap cards made every expansions alongside the viable ones. It is done by design for what I suspect to be the same reasons you're outlining here, just that it's cards instead of feats and whatnot. There is fun in analyzing the system you are presented with (a card game expansion set, the available feats for a character class in DnD, etc) and figuring which parts are good and which are bad and I think that's what Magic is trying to encourage.

That and they have a monetary incentive to keep you buying more boosters in order to get the best cards.
 

The Wart

Member
Speaking of which, I'm going to be prototyping some lore/mechanics for the item I'm going to submit, so if anyone wants to volunteer to look at a couple of my ideas and tell me if they awful or not I'd appreciate it!

I'd be interested in taking a look!
 

MartyStu

Member
Obsidian is one of the few companies (Larian, Harebrained) that I will back immediately. They're just the best at it.

Also, it was kinda the subject of the video, but follow Josh on Twitter and/or instagram/tumblr and you'll see stuff about the project almost daily.



There will probably be a deadline of some sort as they have to work out physical items. You need to do it either way, though, and it can be edited at any time, so hop in whenever you can and confirm your pledge.

Wait, what happens if we do not confirm the pledge?
 

Anno

Member
Wait, what happens if we do not confirm the pledge?

I guess I don't really know. I assume though that they need it in order to confirm your pledge and get you what you wanted. I don't know that they can glean that information just from the Fig pledge easily.

Here's the FAQ from the backer site:

Saves Time and Money: The Backer Portal allows us to coordinate our support efforts between Fig backers and backers who could not or preferred not to use Fig. We can limit the amount of support people needed to manage taking in the amount of information needed for each backer. It's important to us to use your money for making the game as great as we can. We do not use any personal data provided on this site other than to complete your pledge, let you know about the status of the game, or to let you know about games we're making that are similar. We do not share this info with any outside parties other than shipping partners to get you your rewards..

Surveys: Fig allows for surveys, but only for Fig backers. We have many PayPal backers too, and some of our surveys are quite complex at the higher tier levels. Having this in one place makes it much easier to coordinate.

Upgrading: One of our most popular requests has been to allow backers to upgrade their tiers and/or buy more addons after the campaign is over. This portal allows interested users to do that.

Fulfillment: The site allows users a one-stop location to update shipping information and redeem all digital goods, such as game keys and more.
 
ive yet to play the first as im new to pc gaming (feb of 2016)
PoE is on sale on GoG for $17 atm but im afraid i wont like it as much as i believe.
How good is the story and how punishing is combat?

@ilium the expansions are also on sale on GoG
 

Anno

Member
ive yet to play the first as im new to pc gaming (feb of 2016)
PoE is on sale on GoG for $17 atm but im afraid i wont like it as much as i believe.
How good is the story and how punishing is combat?

@ilium the expansions are also on sale on GoG

I think the main plot is good, but of course it's all very subjective. The overall world building and companion characters I think are better, and the stories found in the expansion better yet.

Combat can be totally trivialized by putting it on Story Time difficult if that's the way you want to go. Otherwise it's not super punishing until you get to higher difficulties and even then it's only certain fights. The combat and character building is a lot of fun though.
 
I have no idea what I'm looking at here.

The spell effect (the fireball) is fading out when the game is paused. In the first game, it would be difficult to see your characters during battle, even when paused, because they could get obscured by effects. It looks like they are taking steps to address that in this game.
 

Giolon

Member
The spell effect (the fireball) is fading out when the game is paused. In the first game, it would be difficult to see your characters during battle, even when paused, because they could get obscured by effects. It looks like they are taking steps to address that in this game.

When you pause the game special effects like fire will be transparent to help visibility

Making the visual effect of spells transparent when pause, so if you pause in the middle of a fireball blasting you still can see what's going on and where the character are.

Ooooooh. Thanks.

But what if I want to take a screenshot of the game with the spell effect in place because it looks cool at that moment? T.T
 

Naito

Member
Frog helms are in for all of you frog helms fan :p (from Josh's Twitter)

DB1DE2RUQAA19nJ.jpg:large
 

Anno

Member
JESawyer said:
There are currently two or three flaming weapons and one that has fire abilities but isn’t capital F Flaming. Let me elaborate on the process to help explain how we’re working.

The process for item design is different for Deadfire than it was for Pillars 1. On Pillars, I took a top-down approach. I wrote down all of our weapon types, established a number of unique weapons for each type, looked at our ability functionality, and designed the unique weapons around what we were currently capable of doing. I did this for practical reasons. We were building all of the gameplay code from the ground up and I knew there was a lot of functionality that we weren’t going to get in the initial launch. The 3.0 patch and The White March expanded that functionality significantly.

On Deadfire, the programming team refactored the entire effects system, including how item properties work. The system in Deadfire is much, much more powerful than it was in Pillars 1. While I still have a list of weapons to work with to ensure that each weapon type has a few nice uniques, I design them from a visual and thematic perspective first and then request types of powers to fit the vibe, trusting in the system designers to push the capabilities of the engine and the character artists to make something beautiful and unique.

E.g. I designed a unique rapier called Squid’s Grasp. Its description features the history of its original owner, a Príncipi captain named Azio, known as “Calmo” (”squid” in Vailian). The gist of the story is that Azio was cruel and sadistic, feared and hated as much by his own crew as by his enemies. He survived four mutiny attempts and gained a reputation for having eyes in the back of his head and being impossible to capture.

I’ll leave the rest of the details for the game, but the visual description I gave was “Black as ink, semimatte, but the edge is sharpened steel. Any other modifications that fit the vibe.” Some descriptions are much more detailed and feature reference photos, but for Squid’s Grasp, I didn’t think it required additional details. For powers, I requested abilities that grant bonuses when threatened by three or more enemies, abilities that trigger when the wielder is flanked, and a short-range teleport that leaves a blinding black cloud behind.

So ultimately, we may have two capital F Flaming weapons, three, or maybe only one. We may have two weapons of Beast Slaying or none. It depends on the concepts we develop, how unique we can make each individual weapon, and how many enchantment options are available for a given property.

I want our weapons to be more distinctive and I think part of that comes from developing up from a fundamental concept that sounds cool instead of down from a set of properties we designed ahead of time. That’s how I designed all of the unique items in Icewind Dale and, though there were gaps in the lineup (e.g. shortbows), there were a lot of memorable goodies even when they were relatively basic in terms of their stats.

Some new talk about item design in Deadfire from Josh that should give hope for this game being much more interesting in terms of itemization. It also makes me much more optimistic about the weapon design I submitted that I was 100% sure is too optimistic, but hearing this maybe not!
 
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