Heaven Angel
Member
That's damn impressive, this speaks how efficient they are. Everybody should be doing their jobs dedicatedly.
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PC Gamer: FromSoftware made Elden Ring and Armored Core 6 with a staff of just 300 developers
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Not even in the same universe regarding Polish and optimization
GrayChild
Member
Don't forget the 12 hours a day in the office Monday to Sunday.
High divorce rate
Not having or seeing their kids
Also Japan population colapse
But congrats I guess From Software at least i got to enjoy this masterpiece
Yeah, because crunching does not exist elsewhere.
Ar¢tos
Member
Yes, when I play a game what's really REALLY important is the levels of Polish and Optimization.
Fuck story and gameplay!
Gimme polish and optimization!
HFW and GOWR feels like completely different games and every souls game like reskins of each other. See how it works?
PonyStation4
Member
The difficulty is having patience to stand back and read enemy moves and having the patience to not run around every corner. So if you have patience and don't have the reaction speed of a slug, you will be fine.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
in those... performance is included. imagine a From Software game with pristine Image Quality, Smooth performance and graphics that make Justice to the art direction. all of the above take more time, more devs and more money.
Outside Elden Ring, from software games have been relative niche and basically its own genere.
if their games are made in their entirety by 200-300 in-house devs (without outsourcing) is impressive. otherwise there is really nothing special.
gaming_again
Member
They know what they’re getting into. Maybe they want to be that dedicated?Don't forget the 12 hours a day in the office Monday to Sunday.
High divorce rate
Not having or seeing their kids
Also Japan population colapse
But congrats I guess From Software at least i got to enjoy this masterpiece
SkylineRKR
Member
First of all 300 sounds like quite a lot to me. Perhaps its small when compared to Ubisoft etc.
Elden Ring is one of the best games I have played but I don't think you can't compare this to AAA from those studios. Elden Ring is technically ofcourse far worse, and it doesn't rely on cutscenes, countless hours of VA, mocap and all the bells and whistles those games have. Elden Ring is in my opinion far better than, say Assassins Creed or Horizon just because it doesn't feature all that bloated shit, notifications, forced walking, scripted set pieces, endless dialogues etc.
Elden Ring is one of the best games I have played but I don't think you can't compare this to AAA from those studios. Elden Ring is technically ofcourse far worse, and it doesn't rely on cutscenes, countless hours of VA, mocap and all the bells and whistles those games have. Elden Ring is in my opinion far better than, say Assassins Creed or Horizon just because it doesn't feature all that bloated shit, notifications, forced walking, scripted set pieces, endless dialogues etc.
Ar¢tos
Member
Santa Monica Studio (400 devs):
2013 - God of War Ascension
2018 - God of War
2022 - God of War Ragnarok (Spear DLC for GoW)
Guerilla Games (360 devs):
2013 - Killzone Shadow Fall
2017 - Horizon Zero Dawn
2022 - Horizon Forbidden West (glider DLC for HZD)
FromSoftware (300 devs)
2013 - Armored Core Verdict Day
2014 - Dark Souls 2 (not DLC to previous AC game)
2015 - Bloodborne (not DLC to DS2)
2016 - Dark Souls 3 (not DLC to Bloodborne)
2018 - Déraciné (not DLC to DS3)
2019 - Sekiro (not DLC to Déraciné)
2022 - Elden Ring (not DLC to Sekiro)
2023 - Armored Core 6 (not DLC to Elden Ring)
FromSoftware has a much better output and chronological variety of games.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
Would like to know average working hours / week, and how many contractors are used.
For every japanese salaryman dev working 100h/week you would get 2,2 people in Europe.
For every japanese salaryman dev working 100h/week you would get 2,2 people in Europe.
Ar¢tos
Member
You should worry more with the amount of contractors used by western devs. After watching the credits of Uncharted 4 I got the impression that the entire game was made by Chinese sweat shops and ND only directed it!
Hudo
Member
Wouldn't surprise me one bit.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
400 is quite large?
Insomniac has around that number of devs and theyve been releasing games like clockwork almost makes you wonder if them devs ever actually sleep.
Granted they have a big support network and the ICE team to help them so might not be apples to apples.
Insomniac has around that number of devs and theyve been releasing games like clockwork almost makes you wonder if them devs ever actually sleep.
Granted they have a big support network and the ICE team to help them so might not be apples to apples.
Ronin_7
Banned
For this salary? I doubt it.
How much does From Software crunch?
Following the success of Elden Ring, a series of negative reviews of From Software surfaced on Twitter, claiming that s…
www.gamesindustry.biz
gaming_again
Member
Then why are they working there? It’s a creative industry. They could be programming databases for a western bank, but they’re not.For this salary? I doubt it.
How much does From Software crunch?
Following the success of Elden Ring, a series of negative reviews of From Software surfaced on Twitter, claiming that s…
Crunching isn’t a problem. Look what Nintendo puts out.
lame gag1990
Member
That's still a big team.
The artful mincer
Member
Average Horizon npc dialogue
Average Elden ring npc dialogue
I wonder which one took more resources
geary
Member
Average Horizon npc dialogue
Average Elden ring npc dialogue
I wonder which one took more resources
Every indie CRPG made by 20 people puts to shame any AAA big team from dialogue PoV....
GymWolf
Member
Writing has nothing to do with resources and money needed to animate a discussion between npcs.
But nice try.
ZoukGalaxy
Member
"Just" ?
That's actually a lot of people considering the size of the game.
Skyrim was made with a team of ~100 people, it's already incredible, and Fallout 3, even less, the team was smaller like ~80 , you hear that ?! 80 ! THAT is impressive.
Remind that games like Assassin's Creed are mostly made by ~1000 team.
That's actually a lot of people considering the size of the game.
Skyrim was made with a team of ~100 people, it's already incredible, and Fallout 3, even less, the team was smaller like ~80 , you hear that ?! 80 ! THAT is impressive.
Remind that games like Assassin's Creed are mostly made by ~1000 team.
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Mr Moose
Member
Kenneth Haight
Gold Member
Is this a Japanese capitalist activist siteDon't forget the 12 hours a day in the office Monday to Sunday.
High divorce rate
Not having or seeing their kids
Also Japan population colapse
But congrats I guess From Software at least i got to enjoy this masterpiece
Punished Miku
Gold Member
I read the same fawning over Insomniac here as well. There are no magic developers. There are no developers that just use unusual skill to make games every 2 years with less people.
It means the games are highly iterative and using a ton from previous games. FS are good, but they are putting out mostly the same game repeatedly with large elements of combat, enemy AI and assets reused over and over.
It means the games are highly iterative and using a ton from previous games. FS are good, but they are putting out mostly the same game repeatedly with large elements of combat, enemy AI and assets reused over and over.
BbMajor7th
Member
It's the right call - I'd rather have 10 games from a developer I love over the course of a decade than 1-2. FromSoft games might look a generation behind, but they always deliver on the stuff that matters to their fans.
After FFVII-R, I realised I was fed up with waiting 5-6 years for games that were visually fantastic but somehow far less substantial than their predecessors; games that were a chore to replay thanks to all the forced walking sections, long-ass loading screens and repetitive busywork padding out the playtime; games that traded mechanical depth and player autonomy for one-time spectacle and cinematic sheen.
Going forward, I'll happily take games that look like Sekiro / Elden Ring, that run at solid 1440p/60 and use the leftover development time and hardware power for gameplay variety and depth.
After FFVII-R, I realised I was fed up with waiting 5-6 years for games that were visually fantastic but somehow far less substantial than their predecessors; games that were a chore to replay thanks to all the forced walking sections, long-ass loading screens and repetitive busywork padding out the playtime; games that traded mechanical depth and player autonomy for one-time spectacle and cinematic sheen.
Going forward, I'll happily take games that look like Sekiro / Elden Ring, that run at solid 1440p/60 and use the leftover development time and hardware power for gameplay variety and depth.
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Ar¢tos
Member
Average Horizon npc dialogue
Average Elden ring npc dialogue
I wonder which one took more resources
Low effort trolling using something that isn't even in the game or made by the devs?
SkylineRKR
Member
Yes development needs to reconsider. Ultimately does it matter how a game looks? I know I rather play Yakuza or Elden Ring than Horizon or or FFVII R. All that useless force walking and banter during gameplay. They focus on so many things I don't give a shit about, and then the actual games are very formulaic, hand helding and full of waypoints. I also feel FFXVI kinda suffers from this right now, it has shallow combat and almost non existing build variety, and no challenge on its initial playthrough whatsoever.
With some luck you get 3 FFVII games, which is largely based on an existing game to begin with, in the span of 8-10 years. Without factoring in FFVII R was officially announced in 2015. Thats ridiculous. And the end result is completely linear, even chapter based. Ok, the original Midgar part was completely linear too, but I doubt Rebirth will be as open as the original (and I'm not saying OG FFVII was an open world game or something, but more than these games), probably still chapter based too.
Naughty Dog released 2 Uncharted games on PS4, and one was a smaller game. And TLOU 2. Thats a whopping 3 games during an entire gen. And fairly linear gallery shooting games, though I liked TLOU2.
But FROM's output isn't as much as I think, they also slowed down, probably focused more on what they are best at. PS4 gen (2013-2020) saw 4 games not counting remasters. DS3, BB, Sekiro and Deracine. And MH diary for 3DS.
By next month however they have 2, albeit cross-gen, games out for this generation.
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M1987
Member
Apart from Malenia and Radagon it's a lot easier,but still a incredible game
Because Yakuza doesn't have forced walking and banter during gameplay? Because they are not formulaic and not full of waypoints? You can't even make compelling argument without falling on your face. Weak.
nightmare-slain
Member
Elden Ring is the easiest game from them that I've played. There are a couple boss fights that are difficult but everything else is piss easy. It has me worried about Armored Core. I hope that game offers some challenge and isn't the same dumbed down easy mode kind of game that Elden Ring is.
FeralEcho
Member
But how would they and EA then get brownie points from the twitter crowd(oops sorry I meant xhitter crowd) for all the extra 700 diversity hires?
SkylineRKR
Member
You single out Yakuza. Weak.
Yakuza games are more gamey, charming and less lifeless than those shitty ass AAA hand helding games. lots of minigames, fun optional sidequests, more challenging. And I don't think Kiryu or that Judgment guy is constantly rambling to himself. Its just different. Yes they recycle lots of things, but get this, they're good time wasters each time. I'd rather take that rate of output with fun games than maybe 1 Horizon game per generation which are very similar experiences too by the way.
And no they aren't full of waypoints and forced walk scenes, not near the level of typical AAA shit. Why the fuck does FFVII even have waypoints? Its a completely linear game lol.
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The artful mincer
Member
Okay will this do then?
How about you not dodge the broader point about the amount of resources that go into animating both conversations?
Charming and lifeless is subjective so argument has zero substance. Lots of the same minigames. Lots of garbage fetch guests. There is nothing challenging in Yakuza games, and after you unlock Tiger Drop they become an absolute joke.
The artful mincer
Member
Obviously. We're not spending 500 dollars on new consoles for games to look the same.(God knows how much some spend to upgrade there PCs.
Now should every game try to be the best looking game ever? NO contrary to my previous post I actually like that FROM reuses assets and doesn't waste resources on NPC dialogues etc.
It allows them to focus on other things like enemy variety and huge ambitious level design.
I also appreciate devs like guerrilla to push the envelope on visuals.
It's almost impossible for one dev to do everything.
samoilaaa
Member
well yeah but its way harder to make a game like cyberpunk for example that has alot of npcs , alot of buildings that you can enter , alot of dialog , animations
dont get me wrong , elden ring world is big and has many beautiful details but in terms of scope and complexity its nothing compared to games like cyberpunk or RDR 2
dont get me wrong , elden ring world is big and has many beautiful details but in terms of scope and complexity its nothing compared to games like cyberpunk or RDR 2
Naked Lunch
Member
Ikaruga was developed by three people. Just sayin'.
300 is impressive in this day and age, sure - but in context of the history of the medium - nah.
300 is impressive in this day and age, sure - but in context of the history of the medium - nah.
Ar¢tos
Member
Yes because I play conversations. If a game does have good conversations I'll skip it.
Fuck gameplay! Gimme conversations!