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Paradox aquires White Wolf from CCP

cj_iwakura

Member
What was old World of Darkness

Vampire the Masquerade
Werewolf: The Apocalypse

and what else?

Mage: The Ascension was the last of the 'big three', but Changeling also had a pretty devout following. The NWoD revision was also very popular(with good reason).

I would LOVE a Mage: The Awakening Bloodlines RPG. It's my dream project. (Awakening is NWoD Mage.)

Also, Paradox?

Put this hotness to WORK.
 

AColdDay

Member
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hmmmmm indeed.

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HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
What was old World of Darkness

Vampire the Masquerade
Werewolf: The Apocalypse

and what else?

Mage the Ascension was the other main one.

Then there are:
Wraith the Oblivion
Demon the Fallen
Kindred of the East
Mummy the Resurrection
Changeling the Dreaming
Hunter the Reckoning
Orpheus

Mummy the Cursed and Promethean the Created are nWoD lines.
 

Terrell

Member
I actually rather hope that Paradox doesn't lean on oWoD when making its games. nWoD may not have a long-run metaplot, but it's a fucking great toolbox to work with to make their own universe for a line of video games.

Mmmm... Onyx Path don't seem worried about it, their FB post was quite congratulatory. And there is actually another licensee - The guys who make the new Mind's Eye Theater.
I think Paradox are smart enough to understand Onyx Path are doing a fine job (minus delays and the whole Exalted 3 fiasco) and are the best guys around to continue the P&P side of things.
Honestly, I would just but them as well and just make them White Wolf. It's not like there's an actual company around...

I think the licensing talk is more about video games.

I hope that these guys kick By Night Studios (the guys who make the Mind's Eye Theatre books) in the ass a bit. They have a licence that they've barely used whatsoever, while people are clamouring for more MET rulebooks because the dice system in LARP doesn't work as well as it needs to.

The main three lines are probably better in the old World of Darkness (Awakening might be better than Ascension), but all the minor lines are superior in the new WoD. If game lines like Vigil and The Lost get nixed then this was a bad deal. Old World of Darkness is not strictly better and it would be a shame to see things left to die in order to consolidate two different universes.

Might be? No, Awakening IS better than Ascension, mechanically and in setting. Ascension was basically a game that resembles discourse on the internet: "If you don't agree with my world view, you are my sworn enemy!!" Barf. It was fun, but had broken open mechanics and the setting issues were hard to ignore.

And all the nWoD games are getting essentially a re-write with a 2nd edition that improves them dramatically, even the minor lines like Promethean, both in mechanics and setting changes.

I wouldn't say that they're objectively better - they're very different games after all. Each of the core three games in nWoD is radically different in tone from their oWoD counterparts. Even Vampire, which at first glance seems similar, takes a more personal and moody approach in nWoD (which is vaguely in line with VtM 2nd edition, but then Revised happened and everyone was Blade). Requiem 2nd edition takes it even further by finally introducing worthwhile antagonists for vampires. I guess it's just a matter of preference - you either like the modular approach (nWoD) or a linear one with heavy reliance on metaplot (oWoD).

Sometimes, that tonal change really helped the games function as a whole. Mummy (despite being a VERY dry game, pun intended), Hunter and to a certain extent Demon all benefitted from a change in tone. And I thought the concept of Changeling's fetches, fake creatures made to fill in for you while Fae horrors took you away to toy with you, brings such a strong existential dilemma to that game that I couldn't not appreciate it. Shame about some of the mechanics in that game, though.

The only game that was truly made worse for the change to nWoD was Werewolf, but 2nd edition seeks to fix some of its most glaring issues.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Might be? No, Awakening IS better than Ascension, mechanically and in setting. Ascension was basically a game that resembles discourse on the internet: "If you don't agree with my world view, you are my sworn enemy!!" Barf. It was fun, but had broken open mechanics and the setting issues were hard to ignore.

And all the nWoD games are getting essentially a re-write with a 2nd edition that improves them dramatically, even the minor lines like Promethean, both in mechanics and setting changes.

Yes but arent all the owoD games getting rebalanced in their 20th anniversary editions? Plus as far as awesome ideas go, reality consensus is pretty high up there.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I feel like people expecting a Deus Ex or Bloodlines game on UE4 are getting ahead of themselves. That kind of game is expensive. And dont forget that Bloodlines had top dollar voice talent, which was instrumental in how good it is.

Oh I don't expect that, moreso that it is or was possible, in my opinion, to do a game of similar scope/quality utilising VtM and with the right marketing it should be successful.

Ideally we'd get Bloodlines 2 as Bloodlines was made. Really I'm just expecting something like an isometric CRPG (which is hardly a bad thing).
 

Terrell

Member
Yes but arent all the owoD games getting rebalanced in their 20th anniversary editions? Plus as far as awesome ideas go, reality consensus is pretty high up there.

Reality consensus is broken jank garbage in an actual game setting. What if your bystanders are physicists? Devout Christians who believe in divine acts? The mentally ill? When consensus is variable based on your audience like it is in Ascension, there's too many variables in what people could honestly believe is possible to make it a system that doesn't result in a shouting match at some point or another.

And the rebalancing won't fix the major setting issues, nor do I expect it to iron out the issues mechanically with Mage, merely displace them.
 

Chariot

Member
Yes please.
I don't play that many rpgs, but fuck if i didn't love Bloodlines, even though it was ridden with game breaking bugs, and had to watch the ending on YouTube.
You know there is a fanpatch that is mandatory to make the gane playable. Play it again with the patch and be amazed.
 
The main three lines are probably better in the old World of Darkness (Awakening might be better than Ascension), but all the minor lines are superior in the new WoD. If game lines like Vigil and The Lost get nixed then this was a bad deal. Old World of Darkness is not strictly better and it would be a shame to see things left to die in order to consolidate two different universes.

NOTHING is better than Ascension 2e. Werewolf Revised comes close, but not quite.
 

ZoddGutts

Member
Not sure I want Obsidian to work on it if Sawyer is at the helm, his rpg ideals/designs doesn't go well with VtM type of a game. The dry dialogue and heavy lore dumps in dialogue is something not akin to VtM. Another thing too worry is if the game gets hit with the PC friendly stick, Obsidian tends to bend over backwards these days if anyone complains about their dialogue not being PC like that one dialogue in PoE. Anyways hope Paradox hires more than one developer to work on the franchise.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Getting the mood, dialogue, and themes right is paramount to my enjoyment of a WoD game. I'm really fickle with supernatural stuff in general, but much of my love for Bloodlines is how perfect and appealing it was to me in expressing VtM and general supernatural vampire funtimes. The character writing and dialogue, the colours and art, the locations, the soundtrack, the quests themselves. It's a wonderfully coherent, dark, brooding, moody game without coming off as pretentious or adolescent.

I can imagine trying to find that balance again would be quite a task.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Not sure I want Obsidian to work on it if Sawyer is at the helm, his rpg ideals/designs doesn't go well with VtM type of a game. The dry dialogue and heavy lore dumps in dialogue is something not akin to VtM. Another thing too worry is if the game gets hit with the PC friendly stick, Obsidian tends to bend over backwards these days if anyone complains about their dialogue not being PC like that one dialogue in PoE. Anyways hope Paradox hires more than one developer to work on the franchise.

That wasnt their dialogue and it wasnt anything to complain about.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Getting the mood, dialogue, and themes right is paramount to my enjoyment of a WoD game. I'm really fickle with supernatural stuff in general, but much of my love for Bloodlines is how perfect and appealing it was to me in expressing VtM and general supernatural vampire funtimes. The character writing and dialogue, the colours and art, the locations, the soundtrack, the quests themselves. It's a wonderfully coherent, dark, brooding, moody game without coming off as pretentious or adolescent.

I can imagine trying to find that balance again would be quite a task.

I think you are overstating how mature Bloodlines was. The female models alone are almost adolescent in their sexuality.
 
This news and Vampires: Bloodlines being 4.99 on steam made me buy the game. I have always heard great things but never got around to playing it. I don't do my title justice.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I think you are overstating how mature Bloodlines was. The female models alone are almost adolescent in their sexuality.

Yeah, you're right :/
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Honestly I like overt sexuality and lust in Vampire shit, all genders. It's part of the supernatural mythos.
 

Lime

Member
Getting the mood, dialogue, and themes right is paramount to my enjoyment of a WoD game. I'm really fickle with supernatural stuff in general, but much of my love for Bloodlines is how perfect and appealing it was to me in expressing VtM and general supernatural vampire funtimes. The character writing and dialogue, the colours and art, the locations, the soundtrack, the quests themselves. It's a wonderfully coherent, dark, brooding, moody game without coming off as pretentious or adolescent.

I can imagine trying to find that balance again would be quite a task.

There's a reason why the game is in my Top 5.

The MacGuffin in the game is just unmatched in other video game narratives in terms of its simplicity and retroactive hilarity.

Honestly I like overt sexuality and lust in Vampire shit, all genders. It's part of the supernatural mythos.

There's something intrinsically sexual in vampire mythology. RPS had a good feature on Bloodlines through the lens of sexuality: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/06/20/s-exe-vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-part-1/

Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines is a gutsy move. There are many ways in which you can try to underplay the sexuality of the vampire metaphor: Bram Stoker barely sidestepped it, and he’s perhaps the one we remember the most for making the monster. But if you are reading hard enough, Bram Stoker wrote about repressed sexuality more astutely than most of his peers. There are people out there who glance at the Twilight phenomenon, and shake their heads, and go, ‘Why can’t we go back to when vampires were scary monsters instead of these flimsy sexy sulkbros?’ And I say to you: is there a time at which vampires were not flimsy sexy sulkbros? Sex is the monster, my dears. The libido is the monster. It’s just who possesses it that’s under contention.

I still think Bloodlines could have done a better job at expressing this sexuality instead of "look! big boobs!" on every second character, but the sexuality through vampire tales in itself is welcome.
 
Honestly I like overt sexuality and lust in Vampire shit, all genders. It's part of the supernatural mythos.

Which is stupid as all fuck since Vampires in oWOD are completely asexual by nature, they can engage in but can not enjoy physical intercourse. To them, the whole thing is at best a trap to lure prey in with.. yet they have so many better ways of supernaturally doing that, one always wonders why they bother in the first place? The whole sexed up vampire goth theme is exactly the kind of nonsense you can't disassociate from the setting, no matter how little sense it makes.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Which is stupid as all fuck since Vampires in oWOD are completely asexual by nature, they can engage in but can not enjoy physical intercourse. To them, the whole thing is at best a trap to lure prey in with.. yet they have so many better ways of supernaturally doing that, one always wonders why they bother in the first place? The whole sexed up vampire goth theme is exactly the kind of nonsense you can't disassociate from the setting, no matter how little sense it makes.

Like what Lime posted, it's less about VtM and more about vampire mythology in general. As a fictional, mythological construct the vampires have long been considered as psychologically rooted in sexual expression. The very act of drinking blood, lulling victims into an almost catatonica euphoric state, symbolically linked to sexual overpowering. So it's understandable that those ideas, which go back literally centuries, tend to manifest in modern use of that mythology.

EDIT: Which is not to say it makes sense or anything, but to me is inherently part of the identity of vampires as an idea. It's in their essence. And I'd feel vampirism devoid of sexuality as a core theme would lose a lot of the key components of vampires, leaving them as essentially nothing more than folk who drink blood to live long.
 

deleted

Member
This is wonderful news and potentially a great pair. Paradox has great relationships with Obsidian and co.

There will be at least one amazing game coming off this and I can't wait for it to happen.
 

dude

dude
The thing with V:tM is that it is 90's as fuck. the new V20 books help to make the game a bit more modern, but in the end it's still a game that was released in '98.
But, Onyx Path are working on a new 4th edition to V:tM (oWoD), and I guess whatever game they make is going to use that rather than older 3rd edition stuff.

I really wish they give oWOD and nWOD some better names to avoid confusion, especially now that they exist side by side.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Just make it happen. It's obviously the right thing to do.

fuck man having tim cain and brian mitsoda work on a new VtM game would be way, way too good to be true

that's approaching "troika! we're getting the team back together!"
 
Is there any world of darkness novels?

Yeah but I think they stopped making anymore for the time being, which sucks. I own a decent amount, including some Exalted novels which are pretty good.

I loved the Demon: The Fallen trilogy and the Gehenna/Apocalypse/Ascension ending trilogy was awesome too.
 

Azih

Member
See how much different the whole feeling around WoD is with open and friendly Paradox in charge as opposed to the closed, morose, and controlling CCP?
 
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