ULTROS! said:I agree unfortunately. The only stuff we'll get that are not pseudo-Western stuff nowadays are from Atlus, Level-5, Sega, and miscellaneous niche developers/publishers (NIS).
I just wish Japanese companies would stick to making games that they're good at (or at least expanding their demographics nicely and properly). Square and Enix are known for Japanese RPGs, not really for shooters (looks at GunLoco).
And that is? Making stories that make even XIII's look good?Kagari said:At least Nomura's teams tend to stick to what they're good at. .
Josh7289 said:Yeah, I'm curious what they think about the crazy polarized reaction from players worldwide.
Skilletor said:I would think the producers/devs of Agito and Versus constantly mentioning towns and maps would be a sign that SE at least heard some people griping about FF13.
ULTROS! said:I agree unfortunately. The only stuff we'll get that are not pseudo-Western stuff nowadays are from Atlus, Level-5, Sega, and miscellaneous niche developers/publishers (NIS).
I just wish Japanese companies would stick to making games that they're good at (or at least expanding their demographics nicely and properly). Square and Enix are known for Japanese RPGs, not really for shooters (looks at GunLoco).
BocoDragon said:I think, somehow, us western players need to inform the Japanese that "finding the western audience" is bullshit. This message needs to be communicated to them somehow.
Would anyone oppose this movement? Is anyone happy with the direction Square (and similar Japanese companies) have taken? No. Because that audience does not exist.
Focus tests are crap. It's like asking someone what would surprise them... They don't know! Make your own crazy shit and then show it to us. You might, you know, create a new audience.
Kagari said:I am curious as to what sort of 'western players' they had in this focus group.
Hm, I see. That's a good point. While everyone has their opinions on the various FFs from the NES, SNES, and PS1 days (including 10?), they were all pretty similar to each other within each group, and even between groups, with the only big gameplay change being the addition and refinement (or removal in 10) of the active time battle system.cosmicblizzard said:At this point, they're pretty much fucked no matter what they do. 11, 12 and 13 all split the fanbase. Final Fantasy no longer has a set direction. XV could be an RTS for all we know.
That isn't to say they can't make better design decisions, but it's pretty much guaranteed a huge section of their fans will be pissed with each new installment.
Wazzim said:I think they did a good job overall, stop being so harsh on them.
BocoDragon said:This whole thing is just so, so wrong. This whole Japanese dev "figuring out what the western audience wants" thing is a disaster on so many levels. In response to a very real threat from the west, this doctrine of 'seeking western appeal' just digs their own graves further.
The thing is, when Square was popular in the west, it was never that it 'appealed to western tastes'. It was always perceived as foreign, an import. It was like sushi. Not at all western. But nonetheless, with the right game and marketing, FF7/sushi could still be a rather mainstream hit.
The thing is, if you focus test a game in the west, they'll tell you they want a game with Nascar, Bruce Willis and Megan Fox. Screw the mainstream opinion! You can't be that and you shouldn't try to be.
But the thing is, with a company like Square, these days, they'll fuck up even understanding the Nascar/Willis/Fox game. They'll get it hopele
ssly wrong. And then later, they'll totally spin (lie) about how this illusory "american audience" perceieves it. It's bullshit all the way through. It ends up being games made for an audience which doesn't exist.
/rant
How can they realize something that isn't true?tino said:Exactly, does anyone inside SE even realise FF13 is bad Sushi? Nothing in this article convince me that their next game will be good.
People still go batshit insane for the Sonic franchise despite the fact that only the 3 first three games in the series were actually any good (or great even), so I think this is a franchise that will never die down considering it has a pretty good track record so far.Gully State said:I wonder how many subpar Final Fantasies Square can make before people actually stop getting ridiculously hyped for this once great franchise.
With FF fans I don't think anyone can understand what they like and dislike.Himuro said:But they clearly misunderstand what players like and dislike about the game. What makes anyone think they'll do better in the successor to FF13?
BocoDragon said:This whole thing is just so, so wrong. This whole Japanese dev "figuring out what the western audience wants" thing is a disaster on so many levels. In response to a very real threat from the west, this doctrine of 'seeking western appeal' just digs their own graves further.
The thing is, when Square was popular in the west, it was never that it 'appealed to western tastes'. It was always perceived as foreign, an import. It was like sushi. Not at all western. But nonetheless, with the right game and marketing, FF7/sushi could still be a rather mainstream hit.
The thing is, if you focus test a game in the west, they'll tell you they want a game with Nascar, Bruce Willis and Megan Fox. Screw the mainstream opinion! You can't be that and you shouldn't try to be.
But the thing is, with a company like Square, these days, they'll fuck up even understanding the Nascar/Willis/Fox game. They'll get it hopelessly wrong. And then later, they'll totally spin (lie) about how this illusory "american audience" perceieves it. It's bullshit all the way through. It ends up being games made for an audience which doesn't exist.
/rant
Himuro said:With this game it's easy:
1. There's very little exploration. Put in cities, towns, places to explore. A key defining element of every Final Fantasy is exploration and sidequesting.
2. Make the "run to the next cutscene" structure less obvious.
3. If you're going to make the game use a similar structure to a game that came out almost ten years ago, evolve it, don't devolve it. FF13 is nothing but a straight line aside from Pulse, FF10 considerably less so.
Every single person I know in real life who has played FF13 disliked it or felt it was horrifically average. This goes for online as well, though there are people who seem to love it, they are one in ten. Typically, most FF fans like the latest entry, or at least love it. Only few FF titles have been panned as much as 13: 10-2 (undeservedly) and the recent 14.
When looking at FF13 it's quite easy where they went wrong: they took out every single defining aspect the series has ever had, unless cutscenes is one area you've identified FF with, of course.
FLEABttn said:Similarly, the import feeling that the Final Fantasy's supposedly had that was a good part of their appeal frankly doesn't necessarily work in its favor anymore. And from the comments I see and hear, seems to work against it.
Sure but they still did their best, understand what went wrong and will probably improve later on. No reason to bash the game as much as some people do.HK-47 said:Whether or not you like the content, it doesnt change the fact that their development process for large projects is all sorts of fucked up.
That wouldn't affect how I felt about the final product. Plenty of people have "tried their best" on various things, that doesn't necessarily give them a free pass on any criticism.Wazzim said:Sure but they still did their best, understand what went wrong
Rahxephon91 said:1.FF has always been linear and the most previous linear FF was also very popular. It's true though that towns and cities are needed ,but I feel Square knows that and probably wanted to do it. Time and tech stopped that. It seems tech wont stop them next time. As for big exploration. Not sure that's needed. The previous FF that's big on it also seems to be hated by the fandom, compare to the previous FF that downplayed it the most before XIII.
2. Well that would tie into 1 and I agree. I feel that since tech is down now and management is looking to be improved, this area will also be improved.
Rahxephon91 said:FF has always been linear.
I have no idea what I'm talking about? ok. I've played about every main FF to a point and they are linear. All the above posted are illusions of open design, something that FFXIII dosen't have and may effect your enjoyment of it. Sure you can chose two find all your characters in the world of ruin or not, the game still will a linear experience leading to the same place, oh I just won't have some of the pointless characters out of a party of 14. If I'm going to end up at the same place with little change that's pretty linear. No one is saying that XIII dosen't take it to the extreme. What I'm saying is that XIII being a linear game is not some out of nowhere occurrence. Yes they all had pointless minigames in between then and world building exercises that XIII lacks. FF has always had linearity when it came to its main campaign. Hell for most of these games the openness only comes at a certain part. These games aren't exactly go anywhere do anything you want games and that's says linear to me. Sure sidequests are there, but they are small diversions that don't change mostly anything in the campaign that for the most part in all FFs is linear.jeremy1456 said:You have no idea what you're talking about so just stop now.
If you want to get technical all FF games have you going from point A to B, but in all before X there were things to do in between, even if you're just exploring every nook and cranny of an overworld or the various town areas.
Kagari said:I bought the digital version.
Regarding the 360 port, the decision was made around end of 2007 but actual 360 port development didn't actually begin until early 2009.
anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, etcBocoDragon said:In my experience... it's nearly universally hated.
miladesn said:There is no mention of 360 port or when they made the decision in the article, in fact there is no mention of 360 in the article at all.
sounds like Crystal tools as an engine shared by all projects was a horrible idea, FFXIV seems to be suffering from it too.Galvanise_ said:I wonder why they didn't include that decision process in there.
By the looks of this article. . .it sounds like SquareEnix barely knew what they were doing.
miladesn said:sounds like Crystal tools was a horrible idea, FFXIV seems to be suffering from it too.
Read the reviews, there is little content because they probably didn't have time to make them judging by this article and how late the tools were put together. Various performance issues even on highest end of PCs, PS3 version lagging behind etc.ULTROS! said:How was FFXIV suffering?
Wazzim said:Sure but they still did their best, understand what went wrong and will probably improve later on. No reason to bash the game as much as some people do.
Teknoman said:In Atlus we trust.
Not even close. FFX was a massive hit due to it being the first FF game on PS2. I think it's the second best selling FF behind 7.ULTROS! said:It will more-or-less do the same amount as FFX.