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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, I'm just going to keep buying games that look interesting to me and avoiding those that don't.
The people who cry about "boring white men" look just as ridiculous to me as people who scream about "forced diversity." Let the developers make what they want and vote with your wallet.
The people who cry about "boring white men" look just as ridiculous to me as people who scream about "forced diversity." Let the developers make what they want and vote with your wallet.
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MrRogers
Member
This is the most correct in the thread, hence why the last of us 2, star wars and marvels upcoming woke movies will and do still make tons of money. A new IP with yes maam and lesbian power? Very unlikely to do well finanically.
Bakkus
Member
Do you include remakes/remasters in this list? How would this look like if you removed those?
It's evident that's the opposite of what's actually happening.
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Raonak
Banned
That's actually hilarious that you think that developers primarily want to make a games with white dudes as the main characters.
You do realise that a large portion of developers are ""woke""? They don't like tradition or values. Developers love breaking traditions and pushing boundaries. It how new generes are invented. Mixing matching, trying weird shit.
Just stop playing games unless they are made by unwoke developers.
Or just quit gaming.
Please
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Silvawuff
Member
I'd argue that claiming modern gaming having a woke agenda is actually propagating the (negative) woke agenda itself.
When can artists/developers just make whatever game they want without it turning into some agenda? Games can speak in different ways, and it doesn't always have to be a pandering progressive one. That key bit really depends on what the player personally gets out of it and their perception of how a character or story is presented to them.
When can artists/developers just make whatever game they want without it turning into some agenda? Games can speak in different ways, and it doesn't always have to be a pandering progressive one. That key bit really depends on what the player personally gets out of it and their perception of how a character or story is presented to them.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
It really isn't, though... But if you've got evidence that lots of devs are being forced to work on shit they don't like, especially in an era where making games independently has never been easier, I'd be willing to look at it.
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namekuseijin
Banned
I hope they make The Last of Cucks 2 freely available to all
deriks
4-Time GIF/Meme God
That's fierce, man
Woopah
Member
Who do you think is forcing developers to do things and what do you think they are forcing them to do?
Raonak
Banned
Great point.
If developers were being forced to make diverse games,
where is the torrential flood of white dude indie games?
maybe... just maybe OP is the one with the agenda
Sander Cohen
Member
I included everything that was shown, including NBA 2k21 and GTA V. Without them, it would be worse for males lol.
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IfuckinghateReddit
Banned
At least Nintendo is still releasing stuff like DOA Extreme and Omega Labyrinth Life.
Bakkus
Member
Ah, the classic misrepresentation of this point.
Please explain why this was the case for 90%+ of western developed games before the likes of Sarkeesian and Quinn appeared.
Well, there are those GDC pics in the OP for starters.
LeVictorien
Banned
This kind of "issue" to me sounds more like:
Featuring a non white male character --- "Devs are not creative free because they have to score woke points!"
Featuring a white male --- "Devs can finally be creative and create the characters they want and not being called woke!"
Featuring a non white male character --- "Devs are not creative free because they have to score woke points!"
Featuring a white male --- "Devs can finally be creative and create the characters they want and not being called woke!"
soulbait
Member
Two things:
- If people are creating art, their personal politics will eventually be in the art. This does not mean it has an agenda, but the creations are a reflection of the person's perspective of the world. You can see this in all creative medias: paintings, writings, TV shows, movies, music, and yes Video games. If you have a video game that is a long narrative, it is going to be very hard for things not to come in. Some will be small, others will be huge. I am not saying creators will not purposely add in a political agenda, but just because there is some sort of political slant or an issue being magnified, it does not mean that is the ultimate purpose. You will see less of this in creations where it is being created my committee, but if it is a vision of a particular person, it is going to be hard to remove their particular perspective.
- (This is the one I can understand anger at) On the other hand, you also have publishers that have to worry about sales. If they approve certain things to be created, then it is considered a stamp of approval by that company. This is why "censorship" is creeping in. They are not allowing the creators' full visions for certain audiences due to how the culture of that audience would now perceive that publisher. I understand why they do it, and in most cases it does not bother me, but sometimes it is over reaching and removes from the original creation.
PaulBizkit
Member
>still playing western games
Japanese have it so easy, they just ignore the angry tweets from the lgbt crowd and that's it (i hope). They can make hot women all they want and the worst that can happen is a light beam in the US release
it's not about sales, it's about how they can make your game look bad on social media. I assure you, noisy minorities don't play games; all they do is complain in twitter. Every gay person i've met (like 5, they are not that many at all) has shown little to no desire to play games
Japanese have it so easy, they just ignore the angry tweets from the lgbt crowd and that's it (i hope). They can make hot women all they want and the worst that can happen is a light beam in the US release
it's not about sales, it's about how they can make your game look bad on social media. I assure you, noisy minorities don't play games; all they do is complain in twitter. Every gay person i've met (like 5, they are not that many at all) has shown little to no desire to play games
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soulbait
Member
So wait, you are going place all gay people in a single box, simply because the 5 you have meant don't like video games? This is some funny shit right here. That's like saying, "I have known 5 blonde women and not a single one like baseball, so you know blonde women don't like baseball." Seriously, think harder.
PaulBizkit
Member
i know 5 is ridiculously low, but that third sentence was purely anecdotical, it's not related to the two prior.
As long as it suits the atmosphere of the game they are making, they can have any type of protagonist they like. But most of the big AAA games are action based, with hand to hand combat and shooting. If they are in a realistic setting, having a 120lb woman beating a 250lb mercenary can be offputting. And the bald space marine trope was a thing because hair rendering wasn't there (it still isnt, as tress fx sadly didn't set the world on fire)
Take for example TLOU, which is maybe the game with the most realistic depictions of violence, hand to hand combat and shooting. I could not buy the idea that family man in his 50's (Joel) could beat so many people in hand to hand combat. And now in TLOU2 we have 120lb 5.6 Ellie beating loads and loads of mercenaries and shoving trained dogs off herself as if they were rabbits. Same with the latest Tomb Raider trilogy.
In Sci Fi or fantasy games it's all good because you can always justify it one way or another: Bionic enhancements, powers, magic you name it.
And regarding race it's hard for me to understand as I am not American but I wouldn't want my Batman Black/Asian/Latino, just as I don't want a White Apollo Creed, Shaft or Blade.
Take for example TLOU, which is maybe the game with the most realistic depictions of violence, hand to hand combat and shooting. I could not buy the idea that family man in his 50's (Joel) could beat so many people in hand to hand combat. And now in TLOU2 we have 120lb 5.6 Ellie beating loads and loads of mercenaries and shoving trained dogs off herself as if they were rabbits. Same with the latest Tomb Raider trilogy.
In Sci Fi or fantasy games it's all good because you can always justify it one way or another: Bionic enhancements, powers, magic you name it.
And regarding race it's hard for me to understand as I am not American but I wouldn't want my Batman Black/Asian/Latino, just as I don't want a White Apollo Creed, Shaft or Blade.
Eimran
Member
There is a big differrence between politics-based games and politically influenced games.
Eimran
Member
I genuinely just wanted to hear others opinions that's all. And then people wonder why we can't get along.
Raonak
Banned
Because that was before the big indie boom.
Prior to that you had to go through a big publisher who only wanted to make the most safest thing in existence.
this meant forcing their developers to make games primarily aimed at the biggest crowd, which happened to be white dudes.
Post indie boom, people are free to make whatever game they want featuring whatever kind of characters they want,
there's no singular big market anymore videogames are a mainsteam global thing now, and you never know what will blow up.
We live in the golden years of game development freedom.
publishers don't have any power because they have no idea what's gonna be popular,
indie game devs can make anything they want
kickstarter and patreon allow creators to find an audience for anything.
and you think developers are being "forced" to make whatever they want to make.
The irony is half the people here want to "force" gamedevs to make games with white dudes,
all because of their weird insecurity.
If it means so much for you that a game features a white dude main character,
then make a game yourself.
Greatest Of All Time
Banned
Extreme leftists review bombing games because they don't think they're woke enough needs to be countered by review bombing games that pander to that ridiculous crowd.
Speaking with your wallet is one thing and should of course be done at all times. But if anything these last few weeks have shown us is that we have to actually speak our opinions too instead of being silent if we want change. Fuck up their metacritic ratings (which also hurts their wallet) and make it known why. And if someone gives you shit say it was for George Floyd, that seems to be the get out of jail free card.
If we remain silent theres only one voice being heard.
Speaking with your wallet is one thing and should of course be done at all times. But if anything these last few weeks have shown us is that we have to actually speak our opinions too instead of being silent if we want change. Fuck up their metacritic ratings (which also hurts their wallet) and make it known why. And if someone gives you shit say it was for George Floyd, that seems to be the get out of jail free card.
If we remain silent theres only one voice being heard.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
You made very good points, especially around greater indies freedom and the topics they want to explore, but as your budget rises and the risk grows, having say a big gaming news outlet lower your review score because they would like your character to be different in race and gender from what you have can be limiting and market bending (see Days Gone and the controversy around the main character, there are financial implications to reviewers of “big” groups trying to police your content in that way).
Raonak
Banned
Problem is, this hasn't really been a thing.... It's a boogeyman.
Days Gone didn't get lower scores because it had a white dude,
it got low review scores because open world fatigue and zombie fatigue is at an all time high.
It's a very good game, but suffers from being an amalgamation of a hundred other games.
starring a black chick wouldn't have saved it from getting underrated.
In the same way that Era thinks the entire world is filled with racists. and every non-diverse character is pandering.
Gaf seems to think the entire world is filled with SJWs. and every non-white character is pandering.
Both think the world is going to shit.
It's, sad, but kinda hilarious at the same time.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
You are joking, aren’t you?
Two seconds Google Search:https://boundingintocomics.com/2019...-complain-about-days-gones-white-protagonist/
Also, please do not assume my views without reading my posts... please
.
Raonak
Banned
If you legitimately think Decon being white lowered review scores in a world where uncharted, gow, rdr, keep getting goty awards.You are joking, aren’t you?
Two seconds Google Search:https://boundingintocomics.com/2019...-complain-about-days-gones-white-protagonist/
Also, please do not assume my views without reading my posts... please
well, I don't know what to tell you.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
It was not the only problem, but it should have not even be raised and even that little can cause damage to the game. All the other game’s you mentioned are either established IP’s with already defined character rosters (check for additions and their positioning though, see UC4) large marketing push behind them, RDD2, or have other elements that push the boundary those reviewer will focus on (see TLoU2)... also reviews 5-6 years ago and reviews last year or two and after are operating under a different cultural climate which you cannot have failed to notice.
MastaKiiLA
Member
What? Not enough white male protagonists in games? Someone should tell history, because it says otherwise.
If making game character options more diverse opens them up to a larger market, and encourages increased familiarity and understanding of race and gender issues, then everyone wins. I never played a game, wondering why the main character looked the way he or she did. I did always feel a bit of pride when a game had a black male lead that was a badass, as it was always a rarity to play with someone who looked like me. Based on how many men choose female characters when playing online, I assume there's a large contingent of gamers who have no issue with increased diversity. If you find a problem with the "woke" movement, then I think you need to look in the mirror to find who's at fault.
Don't despair. I'm sure someone will eventually make a game with a while male lead. /s
If making game character options more diverse opens them up to a larger market, and encourages increased familiarity and understanding of race and gender issues, then everyone wins. I never played a game, wondering why the main character looked the way he or she did. I did always feel a bit of pride when a game had a black male lead that was a badass, as it was always a rarity to play with someone who looked like me. Based on how many men choose female characters when playing online, I assume there's a large contingent of gamers who have no issue with increased diversity. If you find a problem with the "woke" movement, then I think you need to look in the mirror to find who's at fault.
Don't despair. I'm sure someone will eventually make a game with a while male lead. /s
ZywyPL
Banned
You vote with your wallet, it's all up to you what you receive at the end of the day. For instance, I'm more than sure DICE will tone down their approach with next BF by a lot. If you're not happy with Druckmann's agenda in TLoU2, don't buy the game, simple as it is, otherwise expect more of it in future ND games. If you don't like what you see/hear/read but still throw 60$ on day one than you're part of the problem.
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MasterDerico
Member
"Men" is the term used for humanity.
Don't try to woke my post lol. Its not about male or female.
Airola
Member
If a game can have mutant zombie things that spit acid it's already so far in the fantasy zone that having unrealistically powered protagonists shouldn't be that big of an issue though.
jigglet
Banned
Easy to say, but I'm curious how are you going about doing this? Can you cite specific examples?
losslessFlac
Member
Imagine games with short loading screens commenting on every tragedy/political/social issue. (Boot up CoD, on January, it loads with #MeToo, February it's #Revoke2A, March it's #BLM, April it's #ParisAccord, May it's #OpenBorders...)
llien
Member
Skipping TLOU2, MK whatever that #taliban version was, for instance, buying Kingdom Come: Deliverance.
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Strider311
Member
My only worry is that when we all vote no to woke trash, there will be so much of it that the whole industry collapses.
jigglet
Banned
Ok cool, good to see people walking the walk.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
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PaulBizkit
Member
the thing is that the opposition to non-white protagonists is split between those who want exclusively white protagonists and those who dislike forced diversity. I loved CJ in San Andreas, i loved Maxine Life Is Strange, i loved Lee in The Walking Dead and loved the girl in Celeste, but in those cases, it was great because it gave me the point of view of another group of people in a convincing way (with male love interests, self-doubt, gang culture) or, in the case of Lee, the character was so so noble and awesome, that it didn't matter.
Now... Nu Lara in Tomb Raider... come on, that's just a dude with breasts. she wasn't even athletic, graceful or snarky, she was just weak and with zero personality. Ok, she didnt want to kill the deer... then why did you kill 300 dudes without remorse during the rest of the game?
Jap devs get a total pass from me.
48086
Member
I played tons of games this generation and none of them were overly woke. I am sure there are some out there, but I can easily avoid them. There's more games out there to play then ever before. I think a lot of this stuff gets blown up to sound worse then it actually is here on GAF sometimes. I'm not worried at all about next gen.
Elcid
Banned
My favorite part is when their games bomba and they're all like standing in that opportune moment for self-reflection they instead go, "no it's the straight white male right wing gamers that are the problem, maybe if we push more gay shit down their throats they'll take it this time!"
OutRun88
Member
Have any of you heard of the crazy concept that we create our own reality? Maybe many of you have experienced this but never thought about. For example, think about when you purchased a vehicle. No doubt you spent hours researching models. Eventually you narrow your choices down, maybe to a single car, or two or three. Suddenly you are seeing these cars all over the place. Downtown, on highways, in the parking lots. Everywhere. This is because the car is in your mind. I think this is similar to "wokeness".
Now maybe the rate at which non straight white male characters appeared in games wasn't as frequent as today, but I also remember people not giving any thought to it when it did.
I'm not trying to conclude or dismiss anything. I just find it interesting.
Now maybe the rate at which non straight white male characters appeared in games wasn't as frequent as today, but I also remember people not giving any thought to it when it did.
I'm not trying to conclude or dismiss anything. I just find it interesting.
Anarchistry
Member
I totally agree. Nobody is forcing devs or publishers to do anything. If it's not for you, it's not for you. But when you complain so hard about it, you look like an oversized baby.
